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Tridolons and future winter spider bounties should be locked untill you get your first built AMP and 10~MR


deothor
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1 minute ago, Aldain said:

Why stop there? Let's just lock any Eidolon hunts until you are capped at max rank with the quills and MR 20+ also you must have at least 10 rivens and god knows what other kind of inane restrictions that people will place on things that usually should go into with a full prebuilt team if they want to avoid dealing with less-than-perfect randoms.

Seriously these complaints make me wonder why nobody just makes a full team of four for what should be endgameish content rather than walking into them and expecting that the public matchmaking should do all the work for them.

ever worry about breaking your neck playing around on a slope that slippery?

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7 minutes ago, Olphalarepth said:

The guy that couldn't make the jump to altar to insert shard was around MR 8 or so (and by this we figured it was the first hunt), totally not above MR 10, He/she didn't knew about aim gliding.

At that point I dont think MR10, 15, 20 or 25 would help.

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Just now, OvisCaedo said:

ever worry about breaking your neck playing around on a slope that slippery?

Its called reckless use of sarcasm to badly illustrate a point because my point on premade parties still stands even without a huge slippery slope problem.

But I will admit I have a problem with that.

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Alternatively, we can have the public tridolon locked till a player has completed X terralyst runs (X can be something like 5? 10?). friends can still invite them in however.


That way, they will at least know what is going on. Its also not as strict of a lock

Edited by Leyers_of_facade
accidentally posted non-finished response
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Still doesn't explain why public matchmaking should take the hit for it when people won't just make a party to avoid randoms.

I mean after all, you can put those restrictions on your party as invite only, so what's the actual difference other than effort on the player's part to make a party?

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2 minutes ago, Leyers_of_facade said:

Alternatively, we can have the public tridolon locked till a player has completed X terralyst runs (X can be something like 5? 10?)

That's 5-10 leech runs without contributing to unlock your next zone to leech.

I'd rather have checkbox "does this player have a weapon to contribute and knows what to do".. But that's just me :)

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2 minutes ago, Aldain said:

Still doesn't explain why public matchmaking should take the hit for it when people won't just make a party to avoid randoms.

I mean after all, you can put those restrictions on your party as invite only, so what's the actual difference other than effort on the player's part to make a party?

Good question, a good answer is that if we expect the supposed end game content to be something a MR 5 could get in or that it something you just have to "go there and dps that thing" I think people who support new players getting into everything should have no right about complaining about lacking of end game. Good enough?

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Just now, Olphalarepth said:

Good question, a good answer is that if we expect the supposed end game content to be something a MR 5 could get in or that it something you just have to "go there and dps that thing" I think people who support new players getting into everything should have no right about complaining about lacking of end game. Good enough?

So make a party and let public matchmaking be a failing grounds for people too stupid to realize that they are poorly geared or for people who want to learn without being called out for not packing one-shot levels of damage.

Oh and as a note, I'm not one of the people complaining about lack of endgame in WF, honestly I don't think I'll ever really see endgame because I just casually play the game and do bits of content here and there.

Besides, surprise surprise, barring new players from any content doesn't actually make it harder or better endgame content as most people who fulfill those requirements listed in the OP can beat anything this game throws at them with their eyes closed and one hand tied to their face. Endgame won't magically become harder by making it impossible for anyone who hasn't been playing this game for about a year or two to access it, nor will it make DE start magically making content that satisfies the sheer blood-lust people have for endgame in this game.

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22 minutes ago, Olphalarepth said:

The point is not how soloable one can be but squad competence, if I bring a team is to make things EASIER not harder.

That implies that you are the one "bringing" a team. Yet you aren't doing that at all. You're joining a team made up of totally random individuals. You don't need to be in any clan to invite people to join you, and recruiting chat works for people who want to have a well formed group of Eidolon hunters. 

Like I said above. I've seen way too many high MR noobs (running away with the lures, trying to tank the energy waves, having an weak operator, wrong gear, you name it), to doubt that it takes just as much time to revive a MR 24 as it does a MR9. 

23 minutes ago, Olphalarepth said:

The guy that couldn't make the jump to altar to insert shard was around MR 8 or so (and by this we figured it was the first hunt), totally not above MR 10, He/she didn't knew about aim gliding.

Probably not MR 8 then: 

 

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1 minute ago, deothor said:

That's 5-10 leech runs without contributing to unlock your next zone to leech.

I'd rather have checkbox "does this player have a weapon to contribute and knows what to do".. But that's just me 🙂

If someone is determined to leech, nothing will work. By the logic you are trying to present, what exactly stops a player with "good eidolon killing equipment" from going into the tridolon hunt but not contribute at all (eg, they just went into a cave to mine / pond to fish)

The runs requirement is there to make sure people are aware of what eidolon runs are like and have a good idea on whether they are prepared for a triple eidolon hunt. While leechers certainly exist in the game and DE has certainly not done a good part in reducing them, I would believe that the majority of players are not leechers.   They might go into a terralyst run the first time without looking the wiki, realize how useless they are because they have a mote amp, have a bow /shotgun / ignis as their primary. They might be like "hmmm I actually can't do much to this boss",  then they will do work to get what they need. (eg, reading the wikia, forma-ing up a sniper, building a proper amp... etc) 

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2 minutes ago, Aldain said:

So make a party and let public matchmaking be a failing grounds for people too stupid to realize that they are poorly geared or for people who want to learn without being called out for not packing one-shot levels of damage.

Oh and as a note, I'm not one of the people complaining about lack of endgame in WF, honestly I don't think I'll ever really see endgame because I just casually play the game and do bits of content here and there.

Besides, surprise surprise, barring new players from any content doesn't actually make it harder or better endgame content as most people who fulfill those requirements listed in the OP can beat anything this game throws at them with their eyes closed and one hand tied to their face. Endgame won't magically become harder by making it impossible for anyone who hasn't been playing this game for about a year or two to access it, nor will it make DE start magically making content that satisfies the sheer blood-lust people have for endgame in this game.

Is this your first online game? The answer is YES. Many of us are hardcore gamers who thrive in difficulty, we want to taste the dirt and be put against impossible enemies to figure a strategy or, at very least not to have enemies that are huge sacks oh hp good only to soak up bullets. YES, let the public games fail so people know they have to get appropiate gear and frames for a role. Victory and loot is something to be earned, not handed over

In a recent interview Scott claimed that they were designing the bosses so that new players could be a little more help in there. That is for me a big mistake, make two types of bosses. One for newbies and one for veterans but for the love of everything that is holy stop allowing people that can't handle a set content because of not knowing what to do or inability to deal damage, protect themselves or someone else or even get from A to B.

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6 minutes ago, Leyers_of_facade said:

If someone is determined to leech, nothing will work.

Sure, but majority of clueless or lazy leechers will be out of equation. It's still a win for everyone who actually have the gear for tridolons. Noone loses here, really... Maybe except leechers.

6 minutes ago, Leyers_of_facade said:

By the logic you are trying to present, what exactly stops a player with "good eidolon killing equipment" from going into the tridolon hunt but not contribute at all (eg, they just went into a cave to mine / pond to fish)

I think you should leave logic to others, cause you fail at it.

All I am saying is: If you cannot contribute, you shouldn't be able to enter.

Devils advocate... Jesus Christ.

2 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

How would people build an amp if they can’t do Eidolon hunts to gain rep to buy amp parts?

Please, read the thread again.

Eidolon bounty is unchanged. Everyone can do it.

Tridolon bounty isn't. It's locked untill you get your first crafted AMP and you meet the minimum MR requirement.

Edited by deothor
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Just now, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

How would people build an amp if they can’t do Eidolon hunts to gain rep to buy amp parts?

According to the logic I'm seeing here, farming Vomvalysts or the few that show up in other missions for 100 standing per (not guaranteed to drop) intact core.

Also as of this post, Vomvalyst spawns are still broken on the Switch version to where they barely spawn if at all, not related to the topic, but just a small detail.

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11 minutes ago, Olphalarepth said:

Good question, a good answer is that if we expect the supposed end game content to be something a MR 5 could get in or that it something you just have to "go there and dps that thing" I think people who support new players getting into everything should have no right about complaining about lacking of end game. Good enough?

That's nowhere near good. It's actually a very bogus claim. Someone can be at a low MR and still be quite competent. Their frame and weapons can be every bit as high powered as ours. (Yes with the exception of a few that they will be locked out of because of mastery rank.)

There was a thread about someone being locked out of Sedna because they were MR3, but had solo'd most of the content to get there. 

 

Claiming that only high MR players can be good is just silly elitism and demonstrably false. 

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2 hours ago, deothor said:

Hey guys. I have a totally wild idea.

How about we'd disable tridolons (and hard-mode spider) bounties from obvious no-amp, MR1-10 leechers who don't even know what they are doing?

Keep First Eidolon for everyone. Keep option to make a full tridolon hunt in any instance as long, as you put shards in the altar, but remove tridolon bounty from view untill you meet certain requirements.

If you want to carry your friend through whole tridolon, you will still be able to. But they, alone, won't be able to just go in to leech on other randoms.

Edit: Your Quill tier could also have some kind of influence whether you see the tridolon bounty or not. Just to make super extra sure you can't just skip it for tridolons.

locking things in MR never fixes anything, plenty assume the higher the MR the "better", more superior, geared and informed players become, whereas reality is vastly different, high MR never magically fixes anything, you still get morons, afkers and clueless people at high MR, tho the idea of limiting it to people who dont have the noob/beginner amp should be more than sufficient.

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9 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Probably not MR 8 then: 

 

 

You don't need aim glide  for that, if you have been playing long enough you would have notice that he used it when he didn't needed. Also Titania, also some MR tests can be cheated using cheap strategies that completely defeat the supposed thing you were tested for

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9 minutes ago, Aldain said:

According to the logic I'm seeing here, farming Vomvalysts or the few that show up in other missions for 100 standing per (not guaranteed to drop) intact core.

Also as of this post, Vomvalyst spawns are still broken on the Switch version to where they barely spawn if at all, not related to the topic, but just a small detail.

No. Please stop trolling and intentionally twisting what others say to fit your narrative. 

EDIT: Just FYI, I am against the idea there are only vomvalysts and Eidolons (and lua sentients) to farm cores. I'd love to see some kind of miniboss that'd fit perfect between vomvalysts and Teralyst and would reward players with exceptional core at very least. But this is something for different time. 

Edited by deothor
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2 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

There was a thread about someone being locked out of Sedna because they were MR3, but had solo'd most of the content to get there.

plenty of people completed the entire starmap before junctions ever existed exactly because MR never had any relation to difficulty, it still doesnt, it was always what you owned, how much forma you threw at it and your ranked up mods, all of which have zero relevance to MR.

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Just now, Olphalarepth said:

 

You don't need aim glide  for that, if you have been playing long enough you would have notice that he used it when he didn't needed. Also Titania, also some MR tests can be cheated using cheap strategies that completely defeat the supposed thing you were tested for

Pretty sure that was changed way back in 2017. You can double check if you want to. 

And just so we're clear, a lot of the people who would do that test, probably wouldn't be as good with the twitch reflexes and aiming the bullet jumps as someone who you figure has been playing "long enough", now would they? 

Unless the gap between n00b and 1337 is so very small after all? 

 

 

 

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28 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

That's nowhere near good. It's actually a very bogus claim. Someone can be at a low MR and still be quite competent. Their frame and weapons can be every bit as high powered as ours. (Yes with the exception of a few that they will be locked out of because of mastery rank.)

There was a thread about someone being locked out of Sedna because they were MR3, but had solo'd most of the content to get there. 

 

Claiming that only high MR players can be good is just silly elitism and demonstrably false. 

Yeah, I can totally see masses of MR 10 and lower farming credits and endo on sedna and index, oceans of them. And they are super effective too since they have already maxed serration, high caliber, primed charge and other offensive mods. Not to mention they all have a 500K endo spare since they already maxed vitality, redirection and other frame mods.

 

demonstrably false, ok prove it. I'm here

 

PS: I never wrote only MR can be good at something, only that low MR should not be allowed in eidolon hunts without at least a tutorial since they most likey don't have the skill and almost definitely the gear to help. If you want to mention rivens, ok then. We can say plat and or luck is now a the back entrance in the "big boy courtyards" and you only need brute strength in warframe. Forget about everything and just bring the biggest gun you have and you'll get rewarded regardless

Edited by Olphalarepth
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34 minutes ago, Olphalarepth said:

Is this your first online game? The answer is YES. Many of us are hardcore gamers who thrive in difficulty, we want to taste the dirt and be put against impossible enemies to figure a strategy or, at very least not to have enemies that are huge sacks oh hp good only to soak up bullets. YES, let the public games fail so people know they have to get appropiate gear and frames for a role. Victory and loot is something to be earned, not handed over

In a recent interview Scott claimed that they were designing the bosses so that new players could be a little more help in there. That is for me a big mistake, make two types of bosses. One for newbies and one for veterans but for the love of everything that is holy stop allowing people that can't handle a set content because of not knowing what to do or inability to deal damage, protect themselves or someone else or even get from A to B.

I'm aware that there is a hardcore crowd, in this and many other games, I'm not denying that, and honestly I hope that you get what you're looking for in terms of hardcore content.

But the current setup of this game makes that very difficult because of many factors, most of them being relegated to how damage, both incoming and outgoing, work. Things are either damage sponges or cardboard and either hit like trucks or like wet noodles. I've killed about three Teralysts so far (just got back into the game on switch, having to make do with a slapdash magnetic modded Vectis, still pull ok damage) and I am no special or highly skilled player, dodging a teralyst is easy as pie (void mode makes this a non issue until the shield is shattered).

Anyway I guess my major complaint boils down to putting restrictions on CURRENTLY IMPLEMENTED content rather future content, retroactively punishing a larger portion of the playerbase just to satisfy a (though no less important) smaller one. I'd believe more in placing locks, but only if the content were a FUTURE endeavor, rather than trying to fix something that isn't broken right now.

Edited by Aldain
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