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Improving Upon Perfection: Banshee


KlutzMeister
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so banshee is just the best, right? But what's the harm in attempting improving her further?

sonic boom: add disarm to it, its a close range cone, not going to undermine loki . "enough force to incapacitate" is probably enough to knock guns out of hands

silence: add an accuracy debuff to those affected. have you ever experienced a short period of hearing loss? kind of hard to focus. also, I'm sure an ability that effects the ears would also effect the inner ears and balance. augment: add any cc effect will reopen to finishers, maybe.

sound quake: kind of boring, not sure how to improve... maybe kind of like atlas' petrify but a wider cone of like 120 degrees , longer range, and damage can be amplified by tapping your fire button faster. augment: rename it quaking epicenter, then decrease the damage but add pulling in enemies, that way it should make killing large groups easier while also having some interactivity.

 

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6 minutes ago, KlutzMeister said:

sonic boom: [...] its a close range cone

I'd rather it wasn't, though.

Comparing Sonic Boom to Pull is just so dang sad - less range, less damage, less features, less fun.

A disarm could work I guess, but with enemies already knockdown-CC'd
(and maybe Armor-stripped from the Augment), you should be able to just kill them instead.

14 minutes ago, KlutzMeister said:

silence: add an accuracy debuff to those affected

Eh, sure why not.

The biggest thing I'd like to see though would be Silence being recastable, for repeated mass stuns.
Not least with Soundquake already providing ongoing CC, this really wouldn't seem that OP to me.

17 minutes ago, KlutzMeister said:

sound quake: kind of boring, not sure how to improve... maybe kind of like atlas' petrify but a wider cone of like 120 degrees

Bleh, that's kinda just a very bad Peacemaker then 😛

Squishframe McBoatshoes Banshee kinda needs all the radial CC she can get to stay alive, don't take that away from her.

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1 hour ago, NinjaZeku said:

,but with enemies already knockdown-CC'd

and they can get back up, and probably will have done so by the time you find their yeeted-across-the-map butts

1 hour ago, NinjaZeku said:

Bleh, that's kinda just a very bad Peacemaker then 😛

yeah your probably right, but i kind of feel anything is better than what we have now

1 hour ago, NinjaZeku said:

Squishframe McBoatshoes Banshee kinda needs all the radial CC she can get to stay alive, don't take that away from her. 

cc that lasts about a half second beyond the animation you're stuck in, unless your talking about the augmented ability, which I feel my augment idea would work a bit better, instead of enemies knocked down in the far corners of the map, they get yoinked to the center and knocked down so you can shove in a pole-arm or something and wiggle it about 'til they stop all their squirming

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I like your idea about Sonic Boom, it would improve Banshee's survivability against enemies at close range which is exactly what this frame needs.

I normally use Banshee with sniper rifles and it would help a lot at sorties, this could also be used to clear corners before entering a room.

Soundquake is just a waste of an ability slot imo., it's a non-synergising ability that doesn't work well with Banshee's kit and it's barely sortie worthy, much less usable at endless and higher levels.

Isn't Silence already supposed to have an accuracy debuff btw.?

Another thing which would be good is being able to choose where to spawn the weakspots on Sonar, who would want to mess up their headshot rates because of RNG? (this would take some additional time before casting and it could be implemented in a way it would require some skills, so it wouldn't be broken and wouldn't mess up your stats either)

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Used to play lots of Banshee before the tryhard augment was introduced. Now I just leave PUG the instant the hands go down on other than Hydron or Grineer Defense, ANY infested or corrupted tiles with DR mobs that start spawning in later rounds, or ANY Survival. Of all the poor play in WF, tryhard noobanshees extending later rounds, boring the team and spreading the loot way off with augmented Soundquake on tiles with innate DR mobs may be the most obnoxious. Just say No. Thank goodness for arbitration drones.

So yeah, IMO first Banshee rework step would be removing the 4 augment from the game entirely and then giving Soundquake the WOF beatdown treatment.

Other skills are awesome as is, no changes necessary. Every team other than doing Tridolons welcomes a Resonance Banshee, and her 1 and 3 are extremely powerful skills also. Sonic Boom is one of the best "1" skills in the game IMO as is. The Savage Silence lower range build that still maintains a decent Sonar range is a great, fun, team enhancing build. Too bad it's very rarely seen among the masses of 4 spammers.

Edited by Buttaface
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Changes she actually needs:

 

  1.  Off-hand cast with no interruption of reloading, moving, or firing.
  2.  No longer interrupts movement
  3.  No longer interrupts movement
  4. Probably too good a thematic and mechanical fit to completely get rid of as it trades off her excellent killing power on the move for a far stronger and sustained CC ability, but mostly just needs to be shot to the moon.

Also ditto her 4 aug. She already has a far better CC in the form of her 3 (provided you aren't building too much range for the mission at hand), and her weapon damage will forever eclipse it.

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I am not sure what an Exalted Sniper could bring, but if it fires sound waves it defenitely fits. And as much as I like the concept behind her Sound Quake, it is not really good in a fast game and her Augment is defenitely broken and needs a rework or someting completly new. Also her passiv seems a bit redundant, as Silence also mutes your weapons, but it is hard to find something else for a sound based concept.

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New idea as an addition for her passive. In irish folklore banshees are often heared but seldom they are seen, so maybe we can work this into her passive. This would help her in Stealth/Spy missions, but I am not sure if this could work in "offensive" missions as well.

Unnoticable Presence/Ghostlike : Enemies pay no attention to Banshee as long as she does not become aggressive. She has a greatly reduced detection value. This will be reset to normal values if she gets aggressive (attacking, casting Abilities(maybe exclude her 2nd Ability as it is not aggressive)). In Addition her Weapons are treated as being Silent.

As I don't like the mechanics of her 3rd skill, maybe we can also tweak this one a bit. If it stays the same at least make it a channeled skill.

3rd Ability Scream : Banshee unleashes her terrible scream. Every enemy in Range (20m) will be stunned for 10s. In addition they each receive a Puncture/Slash proc or Blast/Impact damge caused by internal ruptures. Augment : Stays as it is, No damage but opens the enemies to finishers and enhances finisher damage (300%).

I am not sure which damage would be best as none really fits sonic waves. her 1st uses impact and her 4th Blast. The Augment of Rhinos 3rd is a Puncture proc and slash would fit for internal ruptures causing bleeding.

 

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32 minutes ago, Naneel said:

Unnoticable Presence/Ghostlike : Enemies pay no attention to Banshee as long as she does not become aggressive. She has a greatly reduced detection value. This will be reset to normal values if she gets aggressive (attacking, casting Abilities(maybe exclude her 2nd Ability as it is not aggressive)). In Addition her Weapons are treated as being Silent.

This could stack with the Rakta Dark Dagger passive, which does the same thing. (though i never noticed this working, must be a minor buff)

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How about a long press Sonic Boom that becomes ultrasonic, making the cone steeper but reaches further removing the knockdown and anyone caught will be stunned for a set amount of duration, shattering shields and making enemies caught deaf.  And also maybe keep her 'kill enemies' from the description if it even do anything for the sake of keeping the frame's lore origin.

As for Sound Quake...I've no idea. 😅

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vor einer Stunde schrieb kgabor:

This could stack with the Rakta Dark Dagger passive, which does the same thing. (though i never noticed this working, must be a minor buff)

  • When wielded, the Rakta Dark Dagger reduces the range where enemies can spot the player by 33%. For example, while undetected a player will normally be spotted from 15 meters away, whereas holding the Rakta Dark Dagger will make the enemy spot the player from 10 meters away.

Quoted from the Warframe wiki. So if we say she gets the same it would be able to stack to 5m spotting range instead of 15m, which would be nice.

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On 2018-12-07 at 2:25 PM, KlutzMeister said:

 

silence: add an accuracy debuff to those affected. .

 

I've often wished for something like this on Silence.  Although I'd prefer a damage debuff, or something that shuts down some enemy special abilities.  

Or if duration affected stun length, or it just lasted a little longer by default that could be nice  instead.

I'm not very good at Banshee though, and maybe I  just need more practice.  Particularly with Silence. 

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To give her Sound Quake a bit more utility, make it harder for bullets to be fired into the zone. Either block them completly (probably to good), or give every ally inside Damage Reduction or Evasion, as the bullets are deflected by the sonic waves. This would help her for defending NPCs, allies, objectives. Also can you use Operator while channeling ?

 

 

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On 2018-12-16 at 12:55 AM, Tiltskillet said:

I've often wished for something like this on Silence.  Although I'd prefer a damage debuff, or something that shuts down some enemy special abilities.  

Or if duration affected stun length, or it just lasted a little longer by default that could be nice  instead.

I'm not very good at Banshee though, and maybe I  just need more practice.  Particularly with Silence. 

It's usually enough to kill mobs with a polearm or whip and Maiming Strike, though it's tricky with high range on Banshee.

It's often used with Sonar, because polearms and whips frequently hit the weakspots amplifying the damage even further.

For finisher kills with Savage Silence, daggers and CL, it's better to have the default range or lower and maybe Arcane Trickery to stay alive. (don't know if that works consistently enough with a full set)

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11 hours ago, kgabor said:

It's usually enough to kill mobs with a polearm or whip and Maiming Strike, though it's tricky with high range on Banshee.

It's often used with Sonar, because polearms and whips frequently hit the weakspots amplifying the damage even further.

For finisher kills with Savage Silence, daggers and CL, it's better to have the default range or lower and maybe Arcane Trickery to stay alive. (don't know if that works consistently enough with a full set)

Not to stray too far off topic, but what's a good Silence range with a polearm?  I primarily use a Lesion, which is fairly short, but any of the non-Zaw polearms are options.  (Don't like whips much)

Base Silence range still seems too long, but if I use Narrow Minded I start taking more damage from gunfire and losing Sonar weakpoints.

Edited by Tiltskillet
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4 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

Not to stray too far off topic, but what's a good Silence range with a polearm?  I primarily use a Lesion, which is fairly short, but any of the non-Zaw polearms are options.  (Don't like whips much)

Base Silence range still seems too long, but if I use Narrow Minded I start taking more damage from gunfire and losing Sonar weakpoints.

Iirc. i have 145% range on Banshee right now with only Stretch equipped and it works just alright overall, at least with Orthos P and Secura Lecta.

It would still be better if Banshee had a shorter base range for Silence and longer base range for Sonar, but you can make it work with 145% or 160%-170% even. (i think i remember equipping one of the PoE mods that gives some minimal extra range, but didn't want to waste a mod slot on it, so i took it down)

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