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Will the upcoming archguns gets a balance pass like Primary and Secondaries do?


NaoEthelia
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personally, i'd like to see some new ones enter the stage. we have a limited amount of arch guns right now, so not much to balance against specific enemy types i had some ideas for new arch guns to balance them, but regardless, there has been no talk of new arch guns being made or balanced, but they did say in the devstream they would be coming out with new mods for them.

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I always thought archweapons would eventually make their way into loadouts. They'd function like heavy ordnance, beyond even what the launcher primaries *should* be.

A player would give up their entire arsenal, & in turn they'd get a BFG, or BFM (Big Flippin Melee). Like the Velocitus would be so large & powerful that the Warframe has to go stationary to fire, would still slide backwards on firing, even the sonic wake would be enough to rip enemies apart (including all tank enemies, & any survivors are only barely clinging on), & has to lumber around slowly.

Edited by (PS4)VagueWisdom
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I hear people saying that they are still going to use archwing mods. If that's the case I honestly expect them to be dead on arrival one way or the other.

They'd either need to buff their base stats so absurdly high they'd be massively overpowered in archwing, or alter the archwing mods to be comparable to non-archwing mods and that... Kinda defeats the point of having separate mods and probably still ends up overpowered in space.

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The other thing to wonder about is... warframe powers. Archguns are balanced around more limited strength mods and a much flatter progression curve. What's going to happen when they suddenly get thrown into an environment where frames are running around with +500% weapon damage buffs? Actually, can this happen on Uranus already if one person goes in the water and a buff frame sits on land??

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41 minutes ago, OvisCaedo said:

The other thing to wonder about is... warframe powers. Archguns are balanced around more limited strength mods and a much flatter progression curve. What's going to happen when they suddenly get thrown into an environment where frames are running around with +500% weapon damage buffs? Actually, can this happen on Uranus already if one person goes in the water and a buff frame sits on land??

Something to be tested, but probably. I've used Amesha to give everyone Watchful Swarms many times in PoE. Considering my previous post here, all I can say to +500% weapon damage is, all the better for smearing pesky dropships, & probably those oversized spiders too.

Edited by (PS4)VagueWisdom
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9 hours ago, XaoGarrent said:

I hear people saying that they are still going to use archwing mods. If that's the case I honestly expect them to be dead on arrival one way or the other.

They'd either need to buff their base stats so absurdly high they'd be massively overpowered in archwing, or alter the archwing mods to be comparable to non-archwing mods and that... Kinda defeats the point of having separate mods and probably still ends up overpowered in space.

That's the thing. Certain archwing weapons are already overpowered even when compared to conventional weapons. Even with their crappy base mods they get compensated with hugely inflated base stats.

Velocitus comes into mind.

Edited by NaoEthelia
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hope instead of some generic stat balance, they get a full rework to feel more like actual heavy artillery that you ripped off some ship. Balance it with some reasonable ammo recharge.. and bam you can shoot your ultimate gun whenever you're tired of shooting your normal gun.

Edited by Showerwalker
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2 hours ago, NaoEthelia said:

That's the thing. Certain archwing weapons are already overpowered even when compared to conventional weapons. Even with their crappy base mods they get compensated with hugely inflated base stats.

Velocitus comes into mind.

Last time I saw people trying to crunch numbers around, the velocitus didn't really seem much better than a full built Lanka, and in fact was pretty likely to fall behind because of the unreliability of its crit chance and the Lanka having an extremely quick-stacking and generous combo counter. There's also the matter of the lanka having a flexible base damage type versus the velocitus's magnetic, but that seems kind of nitpicky. (edit: though I guess that's also in terms of charge shot damage, archgun's got some flexibility of its own in being able to rapid fire weak shots)

but that's also only accounting for the weapons themselves; if people like Chroma get to go around throwing +700% bonus damage onto a weapon where the base mod normally only gives +60%, the results will probably be absurd. There's also several possible flat crit chance boosts that would really do favors for the normally 45% chance Velocitus.

which is why I'm curious what the hell they're going to do about such outside buffs, since those are really what throws a wrench into the comparison between low bases and great mods versus great bases and weak mods.

Edited by OvisCaedo
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On 2018-12-07 at 10:49 PM, XaoGarrent said:

I hear people saying that they are still going to use archwing mods. If that's the case I honestly expect them to be dead on arrival one way or the other.

They'd either need to buff their base stats so absurdly high they'd be massively overpowered in archwing, or alter the archwing mods to be comparable to non-archwing mods and that... Kinda defeats the point of having separate mods and probably still ends up overpowered in space.

Given that space is its own separate game mode 'overpowered in space' seems like it would be an easy problem to solve by just readjusting the enemies. 

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1 hour ago, Elementalos said:

Given that space is its own separate game mode 'overpowered in space' seems like it would be an easy problem to solve by just readjusting the enemies. 

I don't really see them going through that effort with everything else they're in the middle of, but maybe they'll prove me wrong.

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I want a velocitus chroma now. Adarza plus give or take 900% bonus damage. I want to break the game 😄

 

In seriousness tho, i hope some of the mods get a balance pass more than anything. Some weapons warrant a second look, like corvas, but in general AW guns are much more balanced internally. Even more so because they all have definite roles that overlap very little, other than grattler/fluctus and phaedra/imperator. 

They still have a host of mechanics that would be really really broken like Fluctus' near infinite punchthrough, the rapid AoE of grattler, and the lnac potential of velocitus. 

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Everything Archwing needs a balance pass. The weaponry, the mods especially, both AW enemies and regular enemies - this revisit has to be done entirely since it appears that DE wants to create an intraverse between both the regular planes of gameplay and Archwing gameplay.

We’ve seen this with the Kuva Fortress, soon it will be Archwing guns/weaponry on land, and eventually Railjack. DE can’t haphazardly and nonchalantly just balance a certain game mode’s items/mods and call it a day, every spectrum in which Achwing will have an effect in our gamplay with Fortuna has to be readjusted.  

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