If you force PVP Stalker onto us:

[Ada_Wong_SG]

Am I going to be the stranger who enter the game as stalker only to help the team out and do a 5 player coop ?

You cant force PVP into a PVE game, because even in deathmatch mode players can choose to form team and coop.

[(XBOX)VaricBreem]

8 minutes ago, (NSW)Evilpricetag said:

Player controlled nullification. Doesn't have to spawn immediately next to you..  Can go invisible, can lock a solo player in a room by themselves. Throws laser ball as anti child spawner.

Nidus specter is the scariest thing you mentioned to me I will never make the mistake of throwing that guy down in a Nightmare boss mode again... 

The only thing missing from a player Stalker arsenal is some movement debuff or disarm ability that could potentially throw him over the top. Spawning acolytes? Assassinate your warframe if you swap into Tenno... 

if you can live that long

[GinKenshin]

It’s just a damn revive, let the guy kill you and move on. Plus you’d be in a party so it’s gonna be 2-4 on 1....stop complaining like this is PvP, it’s just a basic b*tch stalker, he’s still pretty useless and easily killsble 

[(PSN)Cargan2016]

chill out the player controlled stalker will be just as easy to kill as ai stalker as its going to have same load out

[-skimmer-]

Both threatening the devs AND making bold assumptions about what majority of people want... Neat.

Look, even ignoring the actual number of the vocal people arguing against the stalker mode versus the total playerbase, there is such a thing as creative freedom and in every single case where game developers were limited in the ways they could express their vision, the game usually turned for the worse.

I, for instance, am extremely curious about any feature the devs want to see in the game themselves, for those are the features they put in most passionately and often turn out to be most enjoyable.

...its for reasons above why Im absolutelly livid that there are even people who would dare to post threads like this.

[(XBOX)VaricBreem]

1 minute ago, GinKenshin said:

It’s just a damn revive, let the guy kill you and move on. Plus you’d be in a party so it’s gonna be 2-4 on 1....stop complaining like this is PvP, it’s just a basic b*tch stalker, he’s still pretty useless and easily killsble 

issue is he wont kill anyone without severe nerfs to players , or insane buffs to stalker  that would only hurt new players

[EvilChaosKnight]

7 minutes ago, (NSW)Evilpricetag said:

Throws laser ball as anti child spawner.

How's that gonna stop our kids again? A built operator can contest the durability of tanky frames XD
Your laser ball will tickle at best.

11 minutes ago, (NSW)Evilpricetag said:

Player controlled nullification

Cute, but dispell has an animation which will lock you in place. Also has cooldowns.

13 minutes ago, (NSW)Evilpricetag said:

Can go invisible

Shadow one can't. And that's like the Stalker everyone above MR8 or so would be getting

9 minutes ago, (NSW)Evilpricetag said:

Assassinate your warframe if you swap into Tenno... 

Can't do that, sir. Unless it's Umbra, your WF is invulnerable. Changing that mechanic for one specific fight would face quiiiiite a backlash. A very reasonable backlash, too. :P
And that's exactly what VaricBreem is talking about. PVE nerfs to fit a niche PVP thingy which will face severe resistance.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

3 hours ago, (PS4)lagrue said:

I will:
1. Consider quitting the game.  I play Warframe for PVE.  I have played 5 years because it's primarily PVE.  Too many games force PVP onto players these days.  If PVP becomes a FORCED aspect as Scott's stream indicates it would be, that would be the most grievous sin DE could ever commit against their primarily PVE playerbase.  It's one thing to have it optional... but forced?  That's an awful idea.... but a great way to alienate 100s if not 1000s of players.

2. If I don't quit I will grieve Stalker players and shut my game down the moment I can see them moving in ways that are "unnatural" of the AI.  In fact I will probably start shutting the game down everytime Stalker starts to appear regardless - I already have his loot so it's no loss to me outside of a bit of time.  Then they can enjoy having their time wasted as they sit in a load screen for nothing.    And I will actively encourage other players to do the same.

Before you do these things that a very small percentage of people want, you should consider the impacts.... I need to make it clear now - if it is OPTIONAL, then I don't care either way, it'll be fine.  But if it's FORCED, you might as well tie a noose around the game's neck.

Dude you need to learn to calm down and not overreact to things that haven't happened. 

Maybe you should take up a hobby, like video games or something? 

[(NSW)Evilpricetag]

40 minutes ago, EvilChaosKnight said:

How's that gonna stop our kids again? A built operator can contest the durability of tanky frames XD
Your laser ball will tickle at best.

Cute, but dispell has an animation which will lock you in place. Also has cooldowns.

Shadow one can't. And that's like the Stalker everyone above MR8 or so would be getting

Can't do that, sir. Unless it's Umbra, your WF is invulnerable. Changing that mechanic for one specific fight would face quiiiiite a backlash. A very reasonable backlash, too. 😛
And that's exactly what VaricBreem is talking about. PVE nerfs to fit a niche PVP thingy which will face severe resistance.

Rhino charge and war. +40% damage to warframes as it's high in impact damage. 

War and shadow stalker can stun lock. - causes knockdown

Exaulted blade as needed. 

Be jet plane as needed. 

Not sure if exaulted blade can hit invisible operators, but it sure  transition time and space through Limbos void. 

Would his max level increase due to five players? (himself, probably a glitch already)

He seems capable of spotting invisible targets as an NPC already. No stealthing works? 

[(XBOX)VaricBreem]

6 minutes ago, (NSW)Evilpricetag said:

Rhino charge and war. +40% damage to warframes as it's high in impact damage. 

War and shadow stalker can stun lock. - causes knockdown

Exaulted blade as needed. 

Be jet plane as needed. 

Not sure if exaulted blade can hit invisible operators, but it sure  transition time and space through Limbos void. 

Would his max level increase due to five players? (himself, probably a glitch already)

He seems capable of spotting invisible targets as an NPC already. No stealthing works? 

All that requires him to survive, And he wont thanks to the amounts of Aoe  we have to deal with hordes of enemies, wanna see how the pvp crowds react to Aoe weapons? Take an ignis into conclave and watch the hate flow through pms, Watch as you use in game mechanis destroy them in combat yet they will start spamming your pms with messages calling you noob ect.. and thats scaled down conclave combat....wait till same players have to deal with those weapons in unrestricted pve setting

[SneakyErvin]

11 minutes ago, (XB1)VaricBreem said:

All that requires him to survive, And he wont thanks to the amounts of Aoe  we have to deal with hordes of enemies, wanna see how the pvp crowds react to Aoe weapons? Take an ignis into conclave and watch the hate flow through pms, Watch as you use in game mechanis destroy them in combat yet they will start spamming your pms with messages calling you noob ect.. and thats scaled down conclave combat....wait till same players have to deal with those weapons in unrestricted pve setting

You raise valid issues people have missed in the two big threads. Those threads pretty much just spit out a bunch of mechanical and loot concepts without thinking about two of the most important issues.

1. TTL for Stalker being too short pretty much everywhere he shows up. This can eventually lead to exactly what you say, unwanted pointless nerfs to PvE to please the few stalker enthusiasts or massive buffs to Stalker making it even more of an issue for new players.

2. Toxicity across the board. We dont need rage kid behavior added to our PvE, but we will get it if Stalker mode becomes a thing.

 

[Rikimaru_dota]

I personally would love to play as Stalker. 😎

[----Legacy----]

I agree with the mode not being forced, but if that's gonna be the case, DE should give a very good reason (aka juicy rewards) for players to opt-in to the mode. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Edited December 8, 2018 by ----Legacy----

[RannaJana]

I personally would not mind this mode because it is limited on stalker encounters but I can see why others would not like the idea. The community is too deepen into pve and the balance issues grant some stuff will be nerfed or just buffed then more toxicity will be added to the game.

 

Edited December 8, 2018 by RannaJana

[Zegopharo]

4 hours ago, (PS4)lagrue said:

I will:
1. Consider quitting the game.  I play Warframe for PVE.  I have played 5 years because it's primarily PVE.  Too many games force PVP onto players these days.  If PVP becomes a FORCED aspect as Scott's stream indicates it would be, that would be the most grievous sin DE could ever commit against their primarily PVE playerbase.  It's one thing to have it optional... but forced?  That's an awful idea.... but a great way to alienate 100s if not 1000s of players.

2. If I don't quit I will grieve Stalker players and shut my game down the moment I can see them moving in ways that are "unnatural" of the AI.  In fact I will probably start shutting the game down everytime Stalker starts to appear regardless - I already have his loot so it's no loss to me outside of a bit of time.  Then they can enjoy having their time wasted as they sit in a load screen for nothing.    And I will actively encourage other players to do the same.

Before you do these things that a very small percentage of people want, you should consider the impacts.... I need to make it clear now - if it is OPTIONAL, then I don't care either way, it'll be fine.  But if it's FORCED, you might as well tie a noose around the game's neck.

Forcing PvP isn't great for a primarily PvE game, but they are considering opt-out options, though they worry about everyone opting out and rendering the mode useless.

At worst, it would work as it does now, which is: Marked by Stalker > killed by Stalker in mission > Mark removed.

Scott, in a recent interview with Tactical Potato, also mentioned that player Stalkers would be limited to the gear the Stalker already has. So player Stalkers share weaknesses and strengths with the current Stalker, who is mission-level dependent, and must overcome said vulnerabilities to be successful. On top of that, they won't be able to hunt specific players, so they have as much control over who they hunt as we currently do over whether Stalker appears at all. They will be able to pick which planet, though.

If the marked player disconnects or otherwise leaves the mission, I think the player Stalker's mission would technically be successful (eliminate the marked player). Removing the mark after that is debatable (the mark wasn't killed).

Then there's the 2/3/4v1, the fact a great many players can down him in under 5 seconds even solo (provided no powers are used that grant invulnerability), possibly only people that have achieved an amount of standing with someone can do it... yeah, you're overreacting.

 

Use the Force, [DE].

[(XBOX)VaricBreem]

2 minutes ago, Zegopharo said:

Forcing PvP isn't great for a primarily PvE game, but they are considering opt-out options, though they worry about everyone opting out and rendering the mode useless.

At worst, it would work as it does now, which is: Marked by Stalker > killed by Stalker in mission > Mark removed.

Scott, in a recent interview with Tactical Potato, also mentioned that player Stalkers would be limited to the gear the Stalker already has. So player Stalkers share weaknesses and strengths with the current Stalker, who is mission-level dependent, and must overcome said vulnerabilities to be successful. On top of that, they won't be able to hunt specific players, so they have as much control over who they hunt as we currently do over whether Stalker appears at all. They will be able to pick which planet, though.

If the marked player disconnects or otherwise leaves the mission, I think the player Stalker's mission would technically be successful (eliminate the marked player). Removing the mark after that is debatable (the mark wasn't killed).

Then there's the 2/3/4v1, the fact a great many players can down him in under 5 seconds even solo (provided no powers are used that grant invulnerability), possibly only people that have achieved an amount of standing with someone can do it... yeah, you're overreacting.

 

Use the Force, [DE].

Thats all fine and well But what happens  when the invaders fail miseraly Over and Over and Over, Or run into a  dual grace adaptation Inaros  who decides to make lunch while being amused at their atempts to kill him? and stands there eating while all they can do is wail in futility or give up until he decides to kill them what happens then? nothing? yeah we all know what happens nerfs on pve , or buffs that hurt new players

[SneakyErvin]

10 minutes ago, Zegopharo said:

Forcing PvP isn't great for a primarily PvE game, but they are considering opt-out options, though they worry about everyone opting out and rendering the mode useless.

And since they (like the rest of us) already know that, why are they even bothering with implementing it?

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

39 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

And since they (like the rest of us) already know that, why are they even bothering with implementing it?

Probably because they know that the AI will never be as good as many players. The point of the Stalker is to be a surprise attack, and add variation to our regular routine. But most of us pass the point where he's barely a speedbump. 

Having him present a challenge again, is a pretty common request. 

[Lanadra]

If they give me the option to opt out completely, nice, thanks DE.

If they don't. I'm gone as well. I would absolutely hate if DE's response to their repeated failure to make PvP (conclave) a thing in Warframe, is to simply force it on us in the PvE. And I sure as #*!% would not support it.

3 hours ago, _JustSomeone_ said:

I just saw quiting and ignored the rest...

Seriously stop overreacting when we don't even know if stalker mode is gonna be implemented on the game. Wait till pc gets such update, see reviews (or complaints) and then rage all you want....

Because it's always good to be reactionary.. right..? Sometimes it's better to prevent something bad from happening. Also because sometimes things simply can't be easily rolled back again.

Take Rainbow Six Siege.. #*!%ing Ubisoft now has to spend months rolling back censorship they implemented without weighing the community sentiment about it first, something that could have been prevented entirely if the backlash had happened before it was implemented, that is, if players had known ahead of time. And guess what, we know ahead of time. We also know PvP has -never- worked in Warframe and that the vast majority of the Warframe community is anti-PvP.

Also, generally speaking again, just the mere fact that adding an opt-out mode has them ''worried everyone will just opt out''.. I hate to be even more of an ass then above.. but doesn't that already tell you enough..? It means they're afraid that what they're going to add is unwanted.. which it is. And aren't very likely to actually put an opt-out in as it would essentially defeat the point of adding this mode.

As I stated at the start of my post, I don't even care if they add this as long as I can opt-out, have at it. But the moment you force it on me is when I take issue.

Edited December 8, 2018 by Lanadra

[BL4CKN0ISE]

Do people know rad procs exist? I keep reading "you can't force PvP in a PvE game". It already exists in the game.

[BornWithTeeth]

12 minutes ago, BL4CKN0ISE said:

Do people know rad procs exist? I keep reading "you can't force PvP in a PvE game". It already exists in the game.

 

That aside, it sounds like they're planning to include an opt out for the mode, which basically turns it into a flawed but potentially fun idea, instead of a machine for griefing. With the notion of it being optional, I am now *cautiously* optimistic, and would like to see if they attach any interesting lore bits to it, or make it part of an event or the result of a quest.

[Lanadra]

1 minute ago, BornWithTeeth said:

 

That aside, it sounds like they're planning to include an opt out for the mode, which basically turns it into a flawed but potentially fun idea, instead of a machine for griefing. With the notion of it being optional, I am now *cautiously* optimistic, and would like to see if they attach any interesting lore bits to it, or make it part of an event or the result of a quest.

I'm somewhat inclined to agree with you. If they leave it optional, partake if you want, ignore it if you don't want it, then I'd share in your cautious optimism. I take no real issue with Conclave for example because I can simply ignore it, pretend it don't even exist without negative consequences for my experience playing the game.

I am still worried though even if only because DE clearly already knows how it's likely going to go if they give us the option to opt-out. Which in turn leads me to believe they're probably not going to bother and instead just go ''deal with it''.

[BornWithTeeth]

1 minute ago, Lanadra said:

I'm somewhat inclined to agree with you. If they leave it optional, partake if you want, ignore it if you don't want it, then I'd share in your cautious optimism. I take no real issue with Conclave for example because I can simply ignore it, pretend it don't even exist without negative consequences for my experience playing the game.

I am still worried though even if only because DE clearly already knows how it's likely going to go if they give us the option to opt-out. Which in turn leads me to believe they're probably not going to bother and instead just go ''deal with it''.

Conclave is also flawed but fun. I don't play very often, but now and then I pop in and do a couple of matches.

[Lanadra]

1 minute ago, BornWithTeeth said:

Conclave is also flawed but fun. I don't play very often, but now and then I pop in and do a couple of matches.

To each their own. I've given every iteration of Conclave a fair shake and I have hated it every time. Conclave already shows you that PvP in this game will not work at all unless you completely neuter everything to make it work, there is a reason they went with entirely separated balancing in the current iteration of Conclave, because unrestricted gear was a complete mess.

[ChadAgWing]

Can someone post a link to Scott's stream? As far as I'm aware it'll be an opt-in option.