Rakean1993

Open World PvP (yep, another post)

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Given the following points:

1 - i’m perfectly aware of the fact that most of community, for some reasons, actually thinks that pvp in warframe is appealing as the Black Death in european’s XI century

2 - i’m also perfectly aware of the fact actual frames and mods are umbalanced pvp-wise

3 - i’m aware of the ping issue based on who’s hosting

4 - i’m even aware of the fact that most of community is actually fine with the lack of end game content

5 - hypermobility, i know

 

Still, I think that an open world (instanced, Max 8 player, maybe party of 2 people max) where you can mix pve and pvp stuff would be great. Just double the gathered resources and make the instance public-only. It is actually working in other games (gw2? Aion? Both? Can’t remember. ESO for sure). Fortuna and PoE are fine as they are, you just have to enable a pvp mode.

Or, at least, allow us to use in conclave our pve stuff. Just halve the damage and introduce a fixed amount of DR unaffected by ability and gear to the player. It’s the way actually used by elder scroll online. You don’t have even to balance frames: it’s not like a standard MMO where you put 1k hours in your toon and start ranting if it’s not meta. Here everyone has easy access to every single frame and weapon, and to max one out just require half hour. Some frames are going to be Meta in pvp, where is the problem? Have completely different set from pve just make me feel that pvp is a minigame or such. Can’t get involved.

 

Now, it’s really likely that developers are going to ignore my post, but at least, what’s your opinion about?

 

(Probably my post is full of grammatical errors, sry for that ^^)

 

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Warframe  cannot have a mix of pvp and pve  due to balance, some weapon are instadeaths damage wise with/without mods and some warframes  have literally  a god mod (I know your aware of that),for open world pvp ,we need a way to prevent spawn kills ,to be able to spawn near but not near to be spotted ,add that the map is really big,so we need to restrict player movement or have a perma objective way point on the hunted  like the drop supplies mission (big yellow circle on the map but no marker on the 3 supply cache).

 

Conclave mods in pve , some are  useless for pve,some convert 20% of damage into a type (slah,perc ,ech) ,some have a better alternatives  like eject magazine (Reloads 20% of the clip every second while holstered. secondary only) vs synth mod set (reload 5%/10%/15%/20% of Primary and Secondary weapon magazine per second while that weapon is holstered)

As long its not a force pvp with stuff lock behind I am okay(i am not a fan of pvp).

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the best type of pvp in an open world would be to remove frames abilities  make the weapons totally unmodded and the mode should be capture the flag<<  this will make you have to choose wisely and also makes it completely competitive.  also remove bullet jumping so a more tactical and coop play is needed.

2 modes<> timed and endless both would cater to the two types in the community. no cheese allowed.

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if most of the community wont play it, its wasted dev resources. so no, just because you think it would be great does not make it a valid point. 

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2 minutes ago, Zeclem said:

if most of the community wont play it, its wasted dev resources. so no, just because you think it would be great does not make it a valid point. 

That’s fair

indeed

i can’t understand why split completely pvp and pve mod and ability instead of cutting damage vs player 

about the open world, I don’t think it’s going to waste too much resources, but I can get your point.

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7 minutes ago, ranks21 said:

the best type of pvp in an open world would be to remove frames abilities  

  also remove bullet jumping so a more tactical and coop play is needed.

 

1

first, you play warframe to play with warframes, so removing what makes them unique just to make it ABSOLUTELY balanced, is wrong. If you going to do that, why go through the effort to make a pvp open world mode, because it's not the same game anymore. at that point, your better off going to play something else.

however, removing/changing/limiting the bullet jumping is likely the only way. what makes the current pvp unplayable now, is that there is no community for it, there are no rewards for it that come back into the PvE (because to play pvp i have to stop all progress in my PvE for the day), and it breaks a  cardinal rule of movement balance, where at any point in the air I can change my vector of direction, without a predictable point of landing, while still being able to return fire.

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A good example of a reason to oppose this is Elder Scrolls Online No Champion Points Campaign.

PvP in that game is horrendous, most of it due to ZOS not separating PvE balancing from PvP.  I played ESO for years, so I know first hand the horror of that route.  It wasn't the greatest addition to your proposal imo.  The balancing will become an issue immediately.  And if you want a real PvP while in PvE open world nightmare scenario, look no further than Black Desert Online.

I'm all for the PvP community having their thing.  But not at the expense of PvE.

Edited by (XB1)Thy Divinity
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32 minutes ago, ranks21 said:

the best type of pvp in an open world would be to remove frames abilities  make the weapons totally unmodded and the mode should be capture the flag<<  this will make you have to choose wisely and also makes it completely competitive.  also remove bullet jumping so a more tactical and coop play is needed.

2 modes<> timed and endless both would cater to the two types in the community. no cheese allowed.

the problem is even unmodded there weapons that be instakills so even then balance wouldnt allow for it to work

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1 hour ago, Rakean1993 said:

Given the following points:

1 - i’m perfectly aware of the fact that most of community, for some reasons, actually thinks that pvp in warframe is appealing as the Black Death in european’s XI century

2 - i’m also perfectly aware of the fact actual frames and mods are umbalanced pvp-wise

3 - i’m aware of the ping issue based on who’s hosting

4 - i’m even aware of the fact that most of community is actually fine with the lack of end game content

5 - hypermobility, i know

 

Still, I think that an open world (instanced, Max 8 player, maybe party of 2 people max) where you can mix pve and pvp stuff would be great. Just double the gathered resources and make the instance public-only. It is actually working in other games (gw2? Aion? Both? Can’t remember. ESO for sure). Fortuna and PoE are fine as they are, you just have to enable a pvp mode.

Or, at least, allow us to use in conclave our pve stuff. Just halve the damage and introduce a fixed amount of DR unaffected by ability and gear to the player. It’s the way actually used by elder scroll online. You don’t have even to balance frames: it’s not like a standard MMO where you put 1k hours in your toon and start ranting if it’s not meta. Here everyone has easy access to every single frame and weapon, and to max one out just require half hour. Some frames are going to be Meta in pvp, where is the problem? Have completely different set from pve just make me feel that pvp is a minigame or such. Can’t get involved.

 

Now, it’s really likely that developers are going to ignore my post, but at least, what’s your opinion about?

 

(Probably my post is full of grammatical errors, sry for that ^^)

 

you listed every reason any pvp at all will never work in warframe so why even bother ask for it

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You pretty much summed it up in your OP with points 1, 2, 3 and 5, while also managing to confuse me with point 4.

Point 4 could easily be changed to a "I'm aware of the fact that most of the community dont want PvP and it would lead to it being a waste of resources".

Still not sure what end-game has to do with PvP.

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1 hour ago, Rakean1993 said:

snip

1. DE is famous for listening...Even if some of us wish they weren't.

2. PVP Player complaints, issues and feedback is how you have the version of conclave you have now

3. DE has already completely re-built the pvp game from the ground up twice, locked some really nice stuff (cosmetic, pve, and pvp) stuff in there as exclusives...and it still gets very little attention.

4. People here don't like it because it's weird.

  • That hosting thing is enough to want to tear hair out... How is it PvP has the worst instance hosting in the entire game (this question is rhetorical given how often the winner winds up being the host)?  
  • Some of the frames are astoundingly OP for PvP to begin with just based on their design.
  • On average, you get about the same number of pvp'ers in a game as you do hardcore raiders...This game has full featured pvp but raids haven't returned yet (and matchmaking was terrible when they were here). 

 

If anything, DE should make raid tier content (gear checks, hokey pokeys, and weapons/mods found no where else included) first before even thinking about plugging hundreds of man-hours into content people won't play.

 

10 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Still not sure what end-game has to do with PvP.

PvP tends to be sustainable content in most MMO's and that's the base definition of end-game

Funnily enough, if they do add a playable stalker then they'll be bringing the game back to the way it was originally presented waaay back in the day when what sounds eerily similar to Warframe was going to be PvP and players could take out and fulfill bounties on other players.

http://web.archive.org/web/20010331155901/http://www.digitalextremes.com:80/Misc.html

...That's just my opinion and YMMV.

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9 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

1. DE is famous for listening...Even if some of us wish they weren't.

2. PVP Player complaints, issues and feedback is how you have the version of conclave you have now

3. DE has already completely re-built the pvp game from the ground up twice, locked some really nice stuff (cosmetic, pve, andpvp) stuff in there as exclusives...and it still gets very little attention.

4

yes and this is why it wont happen they have already done it and rebuilt it twice to mae the 2% of comunity happy for pvp that 2% is just so vocal about it it seems like more

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1 hour ago, (PS4)Cargan2016 said:

the problem is even unmodded there weapons that be instakills so even then balance wouldnt allow for it to work 

 

 

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I stay as far away as possible when it comes to pvp games.I know from speaking to a lot of community members that's the reason they play warframe. I genuinely like helping people in a Co op invironment then going head to head against another player for personal enjoyment. 

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1 hour ago, Padre_Akais said:

PvP tends to be sustainable content in most MMO's and that's the base definition of end-game

Indeed, but in the context of WF I dont really see it.

 

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10 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Indeed, but in the context of WF I dont really see it.

 

Context of narrative or current design?

Narratively?... I can see it working just fine.

Current design?... I'm not a designer but I'm someone that has nothing against pvp and I wouldn't touch it here with a 39 and a half foot pole (Daughters are watching The Grinch).

 

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Just now, Padre_Akais said:

Context of narrative or current design?

Narratively?... I can see it working just fine.

Current design?... I'm not a designer but I'm someone that has nothing against pvp and I wouldn't touch it here with a 39 and a half foot pole (Daughters are watching The Grinch).

 

Current design. As a narrative part I could see it, afterall we have Stalker and I'm sure there are enough Tenno's out there that some will go dark side.

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As others have said I don't think it would work well.  Due to balance issues, ping, and more.  I personally wouldn't hate the option even with the issue so long as it was a simple toggle.  I don't generally enjoy pvp in games so having the option to opt out of it is a good thing.

But really with all the other stuff happening in the game and issues others have mentioned with pvp.  I don't think working in pvp would be worth de's time.  I would rather they work on more deluxe skins, major patches, prime accesses, maybe overhauling operators so they have better customization, etc.

I don't consider pvp content to be something worth while and worth de's time.

Edited by (PS4)Kakurine2
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4 hours ago, Rakean1993 said:

i’m also perfectly aware of the fact actual frames and mods are umbalanced pvp-wise

DE is not yet ready to get into pve balancing, what do you want for DE to do with pvp? Create the most unbalanced pvp experience?

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4 hours ago, (XB1)Thy Divinity said:

A good example of a reason to oppose this is Elder Scrolls Online No Champion Points Campaign.

PvP in that game is horrendous, most of it due to ZOS not separating PvE balancing from PvP.  I played ESO for years, so I know first hand the horror of that route.  It wasn't the greatest addition to your proposal imo.  The balancing will become an issue immediately.  And if you want a real PvP while in PvE open world nightmare scenario, look no further than Black Desert Online.

I'm all for the PvP community having their thing.  But not at the expense of PvE.

Dude, I played ESO a lot and the pvp community is the one really carry the game. Like, there isn’t a single youtuber pve dedicatec (except for alcast, who just turned in a terrible pvper lol). People is complaining about balance, but lol it’s pvp. Everyone enjoy it regardless.

 

Anyway, got it, no one really want it. Eventually, there are other games and so on.

Edited by Rakean1993

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How about: no. 

The community has reacted in the exact same way to every attempt to shoehorn in any form of PvP: they ignore it. Then it languishes, a waste of time and resources that only a very few play. 

It's a losing proposition in this game. 

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And to think that only a few years ago the fad was Open World.

Now that we got it in every game, the new fad is Battle Royale.

Ah, how gamer fads grow so fast. We'll see what people ask for next year.

Seriously though: No.

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@Rakean1993 Don't bother arguing with people in GD about PvP.

Overall, a lot has changed in the game since back when I was active in Conclave, but that's the One True Constant around here. 😄

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