Open World PvP (yep, another post)

[Rakean1993]

Ok people, I got it, no pvp. At the end of the day, I would be fine even with just a conclave where are allowed actual pve mod and stuff (because without them it really seems to be pointless). I don’t even mind reward, just don’t be forced in those terrible minigame-like set up. (In open world would be cooler).

but I think that community is overreacting against pvp. I’ve been in several pve guilds over various games, where the focus was pve ofc, but pvp was a nice extra between a grind and a boss fight. Wich is another aspect of the game... the coop is near to 0. I don’t see people communicate, socialize or anything, because isn’t really needed communication to grind stuff or fight a boss. In pvp at least you need real time coordination, wich can’t be just a thing where you know the mechanic so you don’t need to talk. It could have even a positive fallout on the community.

btw, I will stop here ‘cause i’m pretty sure the next 5 post will be “just no”

XD

Edited December 10, 2018 by Rakean1993

[Kontrollo]

1 minute ago, Rakean1993 said:

At the end of the day, I would be fine even with just a conclave where are allowed actual pve mod and stuff (because without them it really seems to be pointless). I don’t even mind reward, just don’t be forced in those terrible minigame-like set up. (In open world would be cooler).

Actually, we had that, before the current Conclave. You really really don't want that.

I didn't play that back then, but the old Conclave was mostly one-shots. There was a cap through the Conclave rating on mods, but it didn't really matter if you knew what you were doing. And that was when people were abiding by the self-imposed honour code (no abilities, some other rules).

Additionally, there were the Dark Sector fights (Solar Rail conflicts). And those were only about who could cheese harder; in- and even outside the game^*). Often, you'd simply be stuck in the getting-stabbed-animation of Ash's ult for a whole round, or immediately drop dead by Mesa's or Mirage's ult, plus some other great pastimes like spawn camping. And that was with less power than what we have access to now.

 

*) As far as I remember, there were also fun things like lag-spiking the enemy team, reward bait-and-switching (attackers/defenders could offer bounties, and remove them immediately) and some other exploiting and general nastiness.

[Beartornado]

9 hours ago, InsaneLoneChimera said:

Warframe  cannot have a mix of pvp and pve  due to balance

Not traditional direct PvP, but things like Lunaro are in the ballpark of what could be done for competitive modes. When everyone's using nukes for war you compete with the Olympics instead.

Or you compete to see who can nuke a target faster but I imagine that would be frowned upon in real life.

Edited December 10, 2018 by Beartornado

[Falconer777]

9 часов назад, Rakean1993 сказал:

Anyway, got it, no one really want it. Eventually, there are other games and so on.

No, in fact, many people want - topics asking for a new mode of pvp appear on the forum all the time. This is not surprising - it is interesting, first, and this is an endless endgame (which in Warframe has no at all) - second.

Just in every theme are coming PvE lovers (often the same characters) with a categorical "NO PvP!! Play another game!! We are ALL here only for PvE!!", and with its mass they create the impression that nobody really needs PvP.

I agree that there are more PvE fans in this game than PvP, but not so much so that a good and interesting PvP mode does not attract the interest of a fairly significant number of players.
The conclave is not popular right now because of its gameplay, and because of the steep learning curve. No one likes to be just cannon fodder for others)
Need a mode with a different gameplay, the forum offered options for Grineer vs. Corps, for example. Or mixed versions of PvP -PVE, without a direct collision of players with each other. Yes, there were other many interesting ideas.
DE themselves, by the way, do not abandon the development of ideas for new PvP. Only recently discussed the Stalker mode.                      So - all is not lost in this sense))

[(PSN)Cargan2016]

27 minutes ago, Falconer777 said:

No, in fact, many people want - topics asking for a new mode of pvp appear on the forum all the time.

1

no they dont if you watch more closely its only handful of people asking over and over sounding like a scratched record

[Falconer777]

2 минуты назад, (PS4)Cargan2016 сказал:

no they dont if you watch more closely its only handful of people asking over and over sounding like a scratched record

I watched carefully. Not a handful.

[(PSN)Cargan2016]

1 minute ago, Falconer777 said:

I watched carefully. Not a handful.

if it was so wanted the pvp modes we have would not be dead I have litterally seen 1 person in them in nearly 2 years and hundreds of runs

 

[IgnatiuSgaming]

16 hours ago, Rakean1993 said:

Given the following points:

1 - i’m perfectly aware of the fact that most of community, for some reasons, actually thinks that pvp in warframe is appealing as the Black Death in european’s XI century

2 - i’m also perfectly aware of the fact actual frames and mods are umbalanced pvp-wise

3 - i’m aware of the ping issue based on who’s hosting

4 - i’m even aware of the fact that most of community is actually fine with the lack of end game content

5 - hypermobility, i know

 

Still, I think that an open world (instanced, Max 8 player, maybe party of 2 people max) where you can mix pve and pvp stuff would be great. Just double the gathered resources and make the instance public-only. It is actually working in other games (gw2? Aion? Both? Can’t remember. ESO for sure). Fortuna and PoE are fine as they are, you just have to enable a pvp mode.

Or, at least, allow us to use in conclave our pve stuff. Just halve the damage and introduce a fixed amount of DR unaffected by ability and gear to the player. It’s the way actually used by elder scroll online. You don’t have even to balance frames: it’s not like a standard MMO where you put 1k hours in your toon and start ranting if it’s not meta. Here everyone has easy access to every single frame and weapon, and to max one out just require half hour. Some frames are going to be Meta in pvp, where is the problem? Have completely different set from pve just make me feel that pvp is a minigame or such. Can’t get involved.

 

Now, it’s really likely that developers are going to ignore my post, but at least, what’s your opinion about?

 

(Probably my post is full of grammatical errors, sry for that ^^)

 

Another PVP suggestion again

They won't do this since conclave are almost dead (almost)

[(PSN)Cargan2016]

1 minute ago, IgnatiuSgaming said:

Another PVP suggestion again

They won't do this since conclave are almost dead (almost)

exactly its a very small percentage that even run it i every now and then just because burning out and look for change only to find it deserved and solo in map

[Chaemyerelis]

Add komi to the game for pvp. 😛

[Falconer777]

25 минут назад, (PS4)Cargan2016 сказал:

if it was so wanted the pvp modes we have would not be dead I have litterally seen 1 person in them in nearly 2 years and hundreds of runs

 

Firstly, I myself wrote that the Conclave regime was not popular, and wrote why.
Secondly, I have a completely different experience with the filling of the Conclave than you have.
I tried to play the Conclave - only once saw an empty lobby. At other times, people have always come up (different numbers).
He is unpopular, but he is not dead.

Edited December 10, 2018 by Falconer777

[(PSN)BlitzKeir]

Thank god.

For a second, I thought you were going to suggest battle royale.

Most of the players I know say they miss Dark Sectors. I have to agree. It made no sense lore-wise, didn't appeal to me personally, and generated a ton of unwarranted spite between players... but it also birthed the greatest stories to come from Warframe. Conclave exists, but it's isolated from the game in every way but lore. There's no real competitive element, not inside the context of conventional gameplay, with consequences that affect both competitors and the abstinent.

I would be happy to see something like Dark Sectors return. Not necessarily what you're describing... TDM on Plains/Fortuna would just be a silly mode that barely functions. I'd want something that fits into the larger game, and creates a really interesting narrative that hangs over the story and mechanics. Preferably something that involves clans.

'Fore I go, I'll regale you with a little tale. I recall visiting Sechura once, I forget why, but I ended up with a pub squad who were all in the same clan. I know because one of them barked at me, "This is our territory. Leave." I grinned and said, "I don't see your name on it." I knew how he'd reply, he was obviously a member of the clan that currently held Sechura. He was also an idiot, telling the very players they were taxing to leave the sector. Anyway, he pulled rank on me and threw out some credentials. At the end of wave 5, he tried to get the rest of the squad to pull a bait-and-switch to stick me in the mission alone. But they didn't cooperate. He was pissed, loudly. Got a great chuckle out of that.

[Rakean1993]

Even dark sector could be ok, and I would enjoy a lot some clan-based activities. Main flaw of dark sector seems to be the fact your gain was bind tho another’s loss (aka: tax system). This is u necessary hardcore, similar to a “full loot” situation like UO, Albion ecc. Actually one can move to a system where you reward the winner without damaging the looser.

 

as for the “no one is enjoying conclave” argument: I don’t really like conclave even if i’m a avid pvper usually. I don’t enjoy neither archwing frame fighter, and very few actually enjoy them. Because they’re implemented as minigame. Where I enjoy archwing? In PoE and fortuna, where you can use them togheter with your frame. Here we come. To be enjoyable, pvp must be integrated in the actual game (who is not about arch wing of arcade stuff, but about the frames and they’re mods). Even the new railjack is pretty meh IMHO because I don’t really care this horrible spaceship, I want things to do with my frames.

now, is developing pvp whort DE team? Community say no (some people say no but that’s not the point), so it’s all up to them.

 

(side note: i’m absolutely sure it’s easier cut the damage vs player, like the ESO battle spirit, than force people don’t using pve mod. ESO is all about dps just like warframe, and this thing works pretty well).

[Jim22]

NAH 

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

I always thought since it's a free to download game...why not just separate PVE and PVP into two different games...those players who want both can still have both on the hard drive...plus it doesn't take that long to switch over...and then both separate versions of Warframe could have all that space the other side takes up...then you could get your open world PVP...Heck they could even go the Planetside route with all the factions..I would love to run around as a Bursa with other player driven Bursa...

 

[Rakean1993]

Watching the general section, it’s clear that all people are complaining about end game, but we know that the only real end game is competition between players. Maybe not a direct pvp, but a way to compete AFTER we grinded the stuff to be able to compete must be a thing. That’s the point of grinding. Otherwise, this is just a single player game that actually requires an internet connection.

[SneakyErvin]

4 hours ago, Falconer777 said:

Firstly, I myself wrote that the Conclave regime was not popular, and wrote why.
Secondly, I have a completely different experience with the filling of the Conclave than you have.
I tried to play the Conclave - only once saw an empty lobby. At other times, people have always come up (different numbers).
He is unpopular, but he is not dead.

Some people do freaky stuff to corpses, that doesnt mean those corpses arent dead.

[Falconer777]

15 минут назад, SneakyErvin сказал:

Some people do freaky stuff to corpses, that doesnt mean those corpses arent dead.

You are drunk?

[NaoPerturbe]

Honestly, these topics are becoming pointless at each time someone tries to suggest PvP, just go for Conclave and be happy. If you are not feeling like Conclave is not enough, go there and post these ideas in the specific area (Conclave itself), In a nutshell, just nope (nope and nope).

PS: Seems like these people will never learn.

[Highlord83]

"Open World PvP" is just the PC way of asking for open griefing season.  No.

[(PSN)Zero_029]

Hmm...

What is with people & the obsession of ganking each other? That is all PVP in an open world map would be.

Just non-stop ganking. Reducing damage vs players would not remedy this as even the base damage of many weapons will one shot a player. You'd have to reduce the damage by 90-95%. Which would make players bullet sponges. But weapons hit so hard that any less would be lethal. If DE boosts player HP & etc then the rest of the game becomes trivial.

But once again this is where the PVE vs PVP balancing would begin.

You can speculate about the mode all you want but in the end the mode would create an endless stream of complaints, nerfs, & reworks.

All because folks hate to lose. Folks hate to be ganked.

I know many people who avoid Cryodil in ESO because it got old for them. Trying to do ___ but you're then under constant assault from others players so you end up wasting your entire day/time in game locked in endless combat.

DE had some interesting things with Dark Sectors but it (like all PVP in PVE RPGs) breed hatred, contempt, & was a significant injection of toxicity to the game's community.

I remember playing the game back then & it was one of many reasons I played only when a friend was on & we eventually lost interest in the game.

Warframe has been built around the concept of cooperation, teamwork, & positivity. PVP now adays is the opposite of all that. Everyone wants a glory montage of them being the lone badass, of them trolling those they kill, & etc.

I like Warframe because unlike in games like say Destiny. I don't see other players as my enemy, I don't see myself hiding secrets, not helping them, or giving false information because I need to ensure they stay below me or they'll grow strong enough to ruin my gameplay.

I also don't encounter issues where in group activities people recognize eachother & then leave because of some grudge created during a PVP mode. This made Raiding a PITA in Destiny.

I do not miss hating every player I met or looking upon them with contempt or questioning their every motive because I know they want something out of me/some way to overpower or disrupt me.

All games now a days have/fall into their own niche. Warframe's is PVE. Just something people need to accept.

Good news though...

Destiny 3 is supposedly (rumored) to going to be fully PVEVP. With folks battling over control of Patrol zones in order to get resources, quest access, rewards, & etc.

It's going to be the Open World PVP that PVPers dream of & don't realize they don't actuslly want as things will get ugly very fast, & animosity will reach critical mass very swiftly.

Edited December 10, 2018 by (PS4)Zero_029

[Rakean1993]

41 minutes ago, (PS4)Zero_029 said:

What is with people & the obsession of ganking each other? That is all PVP in an open world map would be. 

Beeing a gankblade was extremly fun. More was beeing an heavyblade in a good smallmen party. Plus cyrodill doesn't force anyone inside, but it's full anyway.

41 minutes ago, (PS4)Zero_029 said:

Warframe has been built around the concept of cooperation, teamwork, & positivity. PVP now adays is the opposite of all that. Everyone wants a glory montage of them being the lone badass, of them trolling those they kill, & etc.

WF it's actually build around the concept that doesn't matter if you are solo or group, to be honest. I yet pointed out the lack of needing of coordination. 

[FlusteredFerret]

I think the devs need some guidance about exactly what type of PvP mode players want / would be willing to play.

 

Lots of posts on here from people wanting a PvP mode, but little in the way of detail. Conclave and Lunaro didn't work out so well...so what exactly do you guys want?

 

Whatever it is, it would somehow need to appeal to the PvE players too, as apparently only about 1% of the player base are bothering with PvP at all. Devoting resources to such a small percentage would be a waste of time and money.

 

My 2 cents is that The Index seems like a good basis for a PvP mode...perhaps with multiple point-scoring zones, (3 per side), to prevent camping & encourage more mobile game play. Start with best of 3 matches, before an option to leave, then best of 10 for those who like to do long runs.

 

Edited December 10, 2018 by FlusteredFerret

[SneakyErvin]

2 hours ago, Falconer777 said:

You are drunk?

No, it is just a comparison. Sure I could have gone with a less morbid one. Conclave is kinda like a person on life support with no possible way of recovery, a few cling onto it not willing to let go, it doesnt turn it into something alive.

[SenorClipClop]

23 hours ago, Rakean1993 said:

Just halve the damage and introduce a fixed amount of DR unaffected by ability and gear to the player.... Some frames are going to be Meta in pvp, where is the problem?

The problem is about 10 seconds into the potential release of this gamemode, when it becomes irreversibly dominated by Limbo and nothing else, as Limbo is completely untouchable and unstoppable except maybe by other Limbo.