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Fortuna: Hotfix 24.1.4

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Don't think the exp was a bug. But using 3rd party programs to make you click faster, maybe that is the real issue. Because everyone knows using skills from frames give affinity.

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On 2018-12-11 at 6:31 AM, Helch0rn said:

easy to say

 

a friend who is a programmer once told me: " you fix one bug and in the process create two more"

Must be a crappy programmer in that case!

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So many people trying to justify their reason why to be unbanned, DE didnt do that bug intentionally.
You see an exploit, or an bug, which can give you advantages, would you abuse the bug or exploit and risk being banned, or would you just do nothing and let it get fixed?
DE is not to blame at this point, you are responsible for your own actions what you do, and you shouldve known that such an exploit could you get banned.

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11 minutes ago, xMarvin732 said:

So many people trying to justify their reason why to be unbanned, DE didnt do that bug intentionally.
You see an exploit, or an bug, which can give you advantages, would you abuse the bug or exploit and risk being banned, or would you just do nothing and let it get fixed?
DE is not to blame at this point, you are responsible for your own actions what you do, and you shouldve known that such an exploit could you get banned.

And another witch hunter...I don't think that you understand the problem like seriously you want people to get a permanent ban for using an exploit/glitch/bug whatever that was a posted on YouTube by a freaking Warframe partner kk m8 seems fair and all.

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vor 3 Minuten schrieb ReyaXZy:

And another witch hunter...I don't think that you understand the problem like seriously you want people to get a permanent ban for using an exploit/glitch/bug whatever that was a posted on YouTube by a freaking Warframe partner kk m8 seems fair and all.

just because its from a Warframe partner, doesnt mean that you still can abuse it to rank everything up in superspeed.

Just because theres a exploit/glitch/bug or whatever, doesnt mean that you can abuse it like that.

Edited by xMarvin732
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Patch related---

Occasional hangs while in foundry- especially claiming an item- health restores,energy etc. 

Massive hangs in Maroos Bazaar

Ancient healers on Gabii get blown across the map with Wryms augment mod, and bounce around like bouncy balls for a few minutes-- can't remember the name at the moment ,but it's the one that blasts enemies away if to close.

Odd cpu core utlization again- tested this across 3 different PC's-taxing the F out of core 3 on 8700k's and 9800k's but other cores are at 10-15% 

 

Edited by kfxsti
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6 часов назад, DeckChairVonBananaCamel сказал:

how many multiplayer games do you play where, if you abuse an exploit to the extreme, you don't get repercussions?

Besides, the minute an update goes live, the players have playtested it for hundreds, if not thousands of times more man-hours than a QA team can. It is simply the nature of all games, even the big ones.
Lets say you have a huge release coming up, and your QA team of 150 people each have 400 hours of testing put in. That is, collectively, 60,000 man-hours of testing spread out over the entire game.
Then let's say your game has 500,000 players at launch (a figure that AAA publishers would likely deem "below expectations") within the first hour you have 500,000 man-hours of testing focused on the very beginning of the game.

if you were generous, you would demand reasons why various bugs you have reported haven't been fixed yet? what?
And did you leave EA and Origin because YOU were feeling cognitive dissonance? or because they were feeling it? how did you know they were feeling it? i mean, to me, i think that EA is enough of a soulless machine that they wouldn't have any negative feelings about the S#&$ they were pulling.

As for these bugs you were reporting:

  1. My turbulent zephyr gets killed by Corpus Embattors:
    • given the fact that the corpus embattor does not use normal projectiles and instead relies on aoe attacks, im not surprised your zephyr is being destroyed by them.
    • Suggestion: Post in the feedback section and suggest that the bounce mines disappear after the first bounce or can destroyed by shooting them. Also that the large blue circle that appears to show where their mortars are going to land be a little more visible, as blue-on-blue can be hard to see in an effect-heavy game like this. (especially for colourblind people). This is because as far as i can tell, this is not a bug, but a balancing issue.
  2. Enemies floating in the air
    • I'm going to just go ahead and assume, based on the vague description you provide, that you mean enemies not falling from dropships? The key problem here is that it is a vague description of events. It is very hard to nail a bug down when the only information you have is that "it happens" and "looks silly".
    • Suggestion: next time it happens, make note of everything. Are you in a squad, or solo? Are you the host? What is your ping? What type of dropship does it happen on? Is there anyone in the squad who might have an ability that could interrupt the "jump from the ship" script (like molecular prime, or radial blind)?
  3. Mining shows item mined, not quantity & goopla sizes wonky
    • Legitimately good bug reports, good job
    • Suggestion: even better if you can nab screenshots though
  4. Brightness seems to not work, pitch black interiors on fortuna.
    • Suggestion: also make sure to note all the settings that may be affecting it; does it still occur with adaptive exposure turned on/off, for instance? Is your game in windowed/borderless mode. Worst-case scenario, make note of your hardware, there may be an issue between warframe and your graphics card and without that info DE will struggle to find the cause. Also screenshots.
  5. Can't random group join a sortie, dumps in dojo.
    • Interesting bug, did it still say you were in the squad? Was it your own dojo or the host's? Did you get in contact with the host to see if they initiated the sortie from the dojo?
  6. Rivens suddenly cant be unveiled.
    • Suggestion: tell us what the riven challenge actually is.
  7. K-drives scores not translating directly to standing gain.
    • I'm pretty sure it is just a percentage of your score that translates to standing. Also if you collide with something (or bounce along rough terrain) immediately after landing, it counts the trick as failed, i find it beneficial to immediately jump again and do a little trick to cement the previous score in place.
  8. Twitch is a joke.
    • yes, yes it is. lol

I hope this has helped! Generally speaking though, the more information you can give the better the chance of DE being able to figure out what is actually causing the bug.

 

the "bounty for bugs" is a pretty neat idea, and it would certainly motivate me to finally get around to reporting my backlog of cataloged bugs.
But this "I'd buy that they are paying us to test" comment is a bit unnecessary, and actually implies that you were under the impression they were promising to pay us in the first place?
As it stands, suspending players for abusing an exploit to severely undermine the core progression systems of the game, giving them an unearned legup, seems like pretty standard practice for the industry TBH.

 

This is long and i dont have the time to proof-read it, so please excuse any errors

Theres nothing extreme about a lowly fast affinity gain. Freaking surely in a game where ESO exists it doesnt warrant a perma Ban. However nor do I understand why one would risk it in a game where ESO exists or why he would post it on yt.

About other companies - even in overwatch that is pvp and has competitive mode and has NO way of getting currency other than by playing and leveling up or straight up buying it players that found a way to passively level up doing nothing were NOT straight up banned, they were warned first. But DE is well known for disproportional responses, from the vivergate times so theres that and they got the name digital extreme not for nothing. Also that no sense of direction, clear rules or purpose that the game is plagued with bleeds into such things as these as well. 

Edited by -Temp0-
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16 hours ago, -AoN-CanoLathra- said:

Otherwise, they risk overlooking a potentially game-killing issue: not properly rewarding a player's limited time to play.

Exactly the problem i faced introducing my friend to play this game. (while i maxed out everything already)

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@-Temp0- Can you tell me what do you mean by "ESO"?

Top result in google is Elder Scrolls Online.

I did try abbreviations.com, acronyms.thefreedictionary.com and acronymfinder.com... this seems to fit:

"... a game where Evil Shop Owner exists..."

That is Baro, right?

Edit: Oh, Elite Sanctuary Onslaught. Yeah, there aren't plenty of games where Elite Sanctuary Onslaught exists.

Edited by theraot

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vor 12 Stunden schrieb DeckChairVonBananaCamel:

how many multiplayer games do you play where, if you abuse an exploit to the extreme, you don't get repercussions?

Besides, the minute an update goes live, the players have playtested it for hundreds, if not thousands of times more man-hours than a QA team can. It is simply the nature of all games, even the big ones.
Lets say you have a huge release coming up, and your QA team of 150 people each have 400 hours of testing put in. That is, collectively, 60,000 man-hours of testing spread out over the entire game.
Then let's say your game has 500,000 players at launch (a figure that AAA publishers would likely deem "below expectations") within the first hour you have 500,000 man-hours of testing focused on the very beginning of the game.

if you were generous, you would demand reasons why various bugs you have reported haven't been fixed yet? what?
And did you leave EA and Origin because YOU were feeling cognitive dissonance? or because they were feeling it? how did you know they were feeling it? i mean, to me, i think that EA is enough of a soulless machine that they wouldn't have any negative feelings about the S#&$ they were pulling.

As for these bugs you were reporting:

  1. My turbulent zephyr gets killed by Corpus Embattors:
    • given the fact that the corpus embattor does not use normal projectiles and instead relies on aoe attacks, im not surprised your zephyr is being destroyed by them.
    • Suggestion: Post in the feedback section and suggest that the bounce mines disappear after the first bounce or can destroyed by shooting them. Also that the large blue circle that appears to show where their mortars are going to land be a little more visible, as blue-on-blue can be hard to see in an effect-heavy game like this. (especially for colourblind people). This is because as far as i can tell, this is not a bug, but a balancing issue.
  2. Enemies floating in the air
    • I'm going to just go ahead and assume, based on the vague description you provide, that you mean enemies not falling from dropships? The key problem here is that it is a vague description of events. It is very hard to nail a bug down when the only information you have is that "it happens" and "looks silly".
    • Suggestion: next time it happens, make note of everything. Are you in a squad, or solo? Are you the host? What is your ping? What type of dropship does it happen on? Is there anyone in the squad who might have an ability that could interrupt the "jump from the ship" script (like molecular prime, or radial blind)?
  3. Mining shows item mined, not quantity & goopla sizes wonky
    • Legitimately good bug reports, good job
    • Suggestion: even better if you can nab screenshots though
  4. Brightness seems to not work, pitch black interiors on fortuna.
    • Suggestion: also make sure to note all the settings that may be affecting it; does it still occur with adaptive exposure turned on/off, for instance? Is your game in windowed/borderless mode. Worst-case scenario, make note of your hardware, there may be an issue between warframe and your graphics card and without that info DE will struggle to find the cause. Also screenshots.
  5. Can't random group join a sortie, dumps in dojo.
    • Interesting bug, did it still say you were in the squad? Was it your own dojo or the host's? Did you get in contact with the host to see if they initiated the sortie from the dojo?
  6. Rivens suddenly cant be unveiled.
    • Suggestion: tell us what the riven challenge actually is.
  7. K-drives scores not translating directly to standing gain.
    • I'm pretty sure it is just a percentage of your score that translates to standing. Also if you collide with something (or bounce along rough terrain) immediately after landing, it counts the trick as failed, i find it beneficial to immediately jump again and do a little trick to cement the previous score in place.
  8. Twitch is a joke.
    • yes, yes it is. lol

I hope this has helped! Generally speaking though, the more information you can give the better the chance of DE being able to figure out what is actually causing the bug.

 

the "bounty for bugs" is a pretty neat idea, and it would certainly motivate me to finally get around to reporting my backlog of cataloged bugs.
But this "I'd buy that they are paying us to test" comment is a bit unnecessary, and actually implies that you were under the impression they were promising to pay us in the first place?
As it stands, suspending players for abusing an exploit to severely undermine the core progression systems of the game, giving them an unearned legup, seems like pretty standard practice for the industry TBH.

 

This is long and i dont have the time to proof-read it, so please excuse any errors

to the unearned leg up i think its kinda earned when you consider that somebody just used his brain to find it out and he had to spend forma every time but yeah my opinion its way much more earned then leeching in ESO or Hydron dont you think?

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11 hours ago, DeckChairVonBananaCamel said:

how many multiplayer games do you play where, if you abuse an exploit to the extreme, you don't get repercussions?

Besides, the minute an update goes live, the players have playtested it for hundreds, if not thousands of times more man-hours than a QA team can. It is simply the nature of all games, even the big ones.
Lets say you have a huge release coming up, and your QA team of 150 people each have 400 hours of testing put in. That is, collectively, 60,000 man-hours of testing spread out over the entire game.
Then let's say your game has 500,000 players at launch (a figure that AAA publishers would likely deem "below expectations") within the first hour you have 500,000 man-hours of testing focused on the very beginning of the game.

if you were generous, you would demand reasons why various bugs you have reported haven't been fixed yet? what?
And did you leave EA and Origin because YOU were feeling cognitive dissonance? or because they were feeling it? how did you know they were feeling it? i mean, to me, i think that EA is enough of a soulless machine that they wouldn't have any negative feelings about the S#&$ they were pulling.

As for these bugs you were reporting:

  1. My turbulent zephyr gets killed by Corpus Embattors:
    • given the fact that the corpus embattor does not use normal projectiles and instead relies on aoe attacks, im not surprised your zephyr is being destroyed by them.
    • Suggestion: Post in the feedback section and suggest that the bounce mines disappear after the first bounce or can destroyed by shooting them. Also that the large blue circle that appears to show where their mortars are going to land be a little more visible, as blue-on-blue can be hard to see in an effect-heavy game like this. (especially for colourblind people). This is because as far as i can tell, this is not a bug, but a balancing issue.
  2. Enemies floating in the air
    • I'm going to just go ahead and assume, based on the vague description you provide, that you mean enemies not falling from dropships? The key problem here is that it is a vague description of events. It is very hard to nail a bug down when the only information you have is that "it happens" and "looks silly".
    • Suggestion: next time it happens, make note of everything. Are you in a squad, or solo? Are you the host? What is your ping? What type of dropship does it happen on? Is there anyone in the squad who might have an ability that could interrupt the "jump from the ship" script (like molecular prime, or radial blind)?
  3. Mining shows item mined, not quantity & goopla sizes wonky
    • Legitimately good bug reports, good job
    • Suggestion: even better if you can nab screenshots though
  4. Brightness seems to not work, pitch black interiors on fortuna.
    • Suggestion: also make sure to note all the settings that may be affecting it; does it still occur with adaptive exposure turned on/off, for instance? Is your game in windowed/borderless mode. Worst-case scenario, make note of your hardware, there may be an issue between warframe and your graphics card and without that info DE will struggle to find the cause. Also screenshots.
  5. Can't random group join a sortie, dumps in dojo.
    • Interesting bug, did it still say you were in the squad? Was it your own dojo or the host's? Did you get in contact with the host to see if they initiated the sortie from the dojo?
  6. Rivens suddenly cant be unveiled.
    • Suggestion: tell us what the riven challenge actually is.
  7. K-drives scores not translating directly to standing gain.
    • I'm pretty sure it is just a percentage of your score that translates to standing. Also if you collide with something (or bounce along rough terrain) immediately after landing, it counts the trick as failed, i find it beneficial to immediately jump again and do a little trick to cement the previous score in place.
  8. Twitch is a joke.
    • yes, yes it is. lol

I hope this has helped! Generally speaking though, the more information you can give the better the chance of DE being able to figure out what is actually causing the bug.

 

the "bounty for bugs" is a pretty neat idea, and it would certainly motivate me to finally get around to reporting my backlog of cataloged bugs.
But this "I'd buy that they are paying us to test" comment is a bit unnecessary, and actually implies that you were under the impression they were promising to pay us in the first place?
As it stands, suspending players for abusing an exploit to severely undermine the core progression systems of the game, giving them an unearned legup, seems like pretty standard practice for the industry TBH.

 

This is long and i dont have the time to proof-read it, so please excuse any errors

I appreciate that you've taken the time to read my forum posts.  It's a large leap forward, and deserves a real response.  

 

What you are missing is the subsequent patches and actual bug reports to DE.  

Twitch is blamed on Twitch's systems.  Fair enough, but when neither DE nor Twitch can give an answer then the players can't fix anything.

K-Drive standing was later defined as 25% of points shown.  It was also stated to be capped at 3000.  Neither was obvious on launch.

I had to contact DE on 3 rivens.  2 were unveiled by support and a third was fixed 3 patches later.

DE released a patch and acknowledged the bug.  It took another 2 to get the riven awarded that day to be equippable on any weapon so it could be unveiled.  

I complain about lighting only after running on two systems, resetting everything, and deactivating advanced features because they usually implement half way.  The issue is, and continues to be, the implemented changes to going from lower to higher lighting (or the converse) and bloom to the moon.  Turning it off minimizes it, but somehow still doesn't remove it 

The fishing sizes were patched two hotfixes later.

The enemies floating in air was highlighted 3-4 hotfixes ago.  They said they knew about it and were starting a fix.  No news on that front, and not a "feature" when Fortuna launched.

You conflated two errors.  Embattlors are broken because they juggle you through walls.  Other enemies not using AoE can kill you through turbulence.  Two issues, and I highlighted that AoE was considered on the insta-kills.  I main Zephyr, and understand how turbulence works.  That's clear from every Bombard and Napalm, let alone Embattlor.  

 

 

Extreme abuse is a fabricated term.  If it were applicable, then the old Mesa+Greedy Pull Mag+Frost was an exploit.  Likewise, Banshee on defenses was an exploit.  Instead of banning people for power leveling they changed powers and level designs to make the tactics non viable.  I'm asking for the same metered response to this exploit.  Also, be mindful that those exploits didn't have a roll back of progress, something I can see being applied here.

 

I highlight QA being either the best or worst job for a reason.  If it's the best, people understand the complexity of these bolted on systems and give fair understanding to being able to test only a fraction of the game.  At worst, I see the frustration of being expexted to catch all this nonsense before release.  Realistically, I see most of QA is farmed to PC players with community reporting being used as a measuring stick to focus on only critical issues first, so consoles can get a release.  It's something we sign up for, but is never acknowledged properly because "we get stuff first." 

 

Finally, the being generous part is a nod to giving DE the opportunity to fix bugs for years without simply dropping the game.  A free to play only works if people play long enough to be motivated to pay.  And despite literal years of game breaking bugs I'm here.  Maybe it's Stockholm syndrome, but I want to love the game.  I want to have DE do well.  When I see salted earth tactics like this it's shameful.  I highlight EA because the same responses from them starting years ago have poisoned their brand.  I want DE to be better, and if my life offers any parallels sometimes good intentions need to be matched against emotional responses to make sure you don't get hasty.

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Am 10.12.2018 um 23:47 schrieb BeeWhyOhBee:

to the game itself? they release a bunch of new weapons, you can max it out in 5 minutes, re-forma it again and max it out again until u get 6 forma for it.

how to do it? thru an exploit. standing up. doing nothing but that macro-thing.
And now no one does other dungeons because "What is the point? I can max them out in a few seconds anyway"

now how is that not harmful? so we're all gonna do this affinity exploit, and not bother with the other content. Now imagine doing this 100 more times

the limiting factor is usually forma not the time you spend lvling the weapons and when you go lvling you usually go to boring Hydron or ESO anyway where it takes only 5 min to lvl a weapon from 0-30 so the difference in time is not really there considering you spend forma on khorra and invest more time to get her to lvl 5 every time

that means when lvling you wont play "DUNGEONS" anyway if anything you will play this kind of stuff afterwards when youre done lvling so it doesnt stop you from playing the content it makes you play the real conten faster, unless you consider lvling weapons as content but if you do ... i cant help you anymore 

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vor 5 Minuten schrieb masterofdetiny:

I appreciate that you've taken the time to read my forum posts.  It's a large leap forward, and deserves a real response.  

 

What you are missing is the subsequent patches and actual bug reports to DE.  

Twitch is blamed on Twitch's systems.  Fair enough, but when neither DE nor Twitch can give an answer then the players can't fix anything.

K-Drive standing was later defined as 25% of points shown.  It was also stated to be capped at 3000.  Neither was obvious on launch.

I had to contact DE on 3 rivens.  2 were unveiled by support and a third was fixed 3 patches later.

DE released a patch and acknowledged the bug.  It took another 2 to get the riven awarded that day to be equippable on any weapon so it could be unveiled.  

I complain about lighting only after running on two systems, resetting everything, and deactivating advanced features because they usually implement half way.  The issue is, and continues to be, the implemented changes to going from lower to higher lighting (or the converse) and bloom to the moon.  Turning it off minimizes it, but somehow still doesn't remove it 

The fishing sizes were patched two hotfixes later.

The enemies floating in air was highlighted 3-4 hotfixes ago.  They said they knew about it and were starting a fix.  No news on that front, and not a "feature" when Fortuna launched.

You conflated two errors.  Embattlors are broken because they juggle you through walls.  Other enemies not using AoE can kill you through turbulence.  Two issues, and I highlighted that AoE was considered on the insta-kills.  I main Zephyr, and understand how turbulence works.  That's clear from every Bombard and Napalm, let alone Embattlor.  

 

 

Extreme abuse is a fabricated term.  If it were applicable, then the old Mesa+Greedy Pull Mag+Frost was an exploit.  Likewise, Banshee on defenses was an exploit.  Instead of banning people for power leveling they changed powers and level designs to make the tactics non viable.  I'm asking for the same metered response to this exploit.  Also, be mindful that those exploits didn't have a roll back of progress, something I can see being applied here.

 

I highlight QA being either the best or worst job for a reason.  If it's the best, people understand the complexity of these bolted on systems and give fair understanding to being able to test only a fraction of the game.  At worst, I see the frustration of being expexted to catch all this nonsense before release.  Realistically, I see most of QA is farmed to PC players with community reporting being used as a measuring stick to focus on only critical issues first, so consoles can get a release.  It's something we sign up for, but is never acknowledged properly because "we get stuff first." 

 

Finally, the being generous part is a nod to giving DE the opportunity to fix bugs for years without simply dropping the game.  A free to play only works if people play long enough to be motivated to pay.  And despite literal years of game breaking bugs I'm here.  Maybe it's Stockholm syndrome, but I want to love the game.  I want to have DE do well.  When I see salted earth tactics like this it's shameful.  I highlight EA because the same responses from them starting years ago have poisoned their brand.  I want DE to be better, and if my life offers any parallels sometimes good intentions need to be matched against emotional responses to make sure you don't get hasty.

about the powerlvling back then on Draco Ceres, i think youre right, they could have banned us all because it was a game mechanic that wasnt meant to be used that way and if you think of the EULA they clearly could have handled it that way which is crazy when you think about it and back then people used this so much several times a day for months until it got patched and now they are pushing out bans after 3 days ... 

About the Q&A issue i have nice quote about this 

"Next, we have teams of QA that are much better at their job than anyone else looking for bugs. We do not need, we do not want, and we do not allow you to use bug testing as an excuse for anything as it is not your job. If it's again the Terms of Service, don't do it."

this came from Support and since then i realised how f ed up DE sometimes handles their business everytime i see this quote i smile and cry at the same time because its so crazy to deny help from the community but it hurts to much at the same time that this game and community which is/was so great gets destroyed by their policy 

 

i really understand your point about the "stockholm syndrom" because i keep playing the game hoping for DE doing better from time to time but looking at the direction from when i started playing 2014 to now close to 2019 they often dont care that much about their old veteran fans and community and push out more casual content which is just boring for us to play i really hope they do better in the future for me the Arbitration were so close when they would give sth like kuva and if the scaling wouldnt be slower than a normal mission. Kuva Surv too why no scaling in an endless missions not even a tiny bit why creating endless missions when the maximum efficient amount is 20min ... 

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im still facing blacklines bug in orbvallis when using directx9,]

when using directx10, the bug is gone, but my laptop cant handle directx10 which is microstutter, itching, i hate it, please fix direct x9, please

 

 

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On 2018-12-11 at 10:09 AM, Bowbie said:

A. The responsability to fix it lies with the dev. The responsability not to exploit it lies with the players.

B. Players did not create the bug. Players create the exploit of said bug. A bug is not a hack, it does not require to modify/inject/3rd party program to get exploited. That's basic 101.

C. I personnally don't care if it's harmful or not. Bug exploit? -> Ban. It send a message : don't exploit bugs. There are too many gaming devs/publisher that won't ban you, not because it is unfair to do so, just because it will piss of their playerbase and their wallet. Doesn't mean it's the better choice.

D. Your logic is so flawed... There are flaws in any system, it does not mean you can exploit them.

A: In real life, the laws that uphold a real society acts upon enacting laws henceforth by deeming acts illegal rather than retroactively seeking offenders. That's like realizing the population is too big and deeming having 2 kids an exploit of the system, then retroactively Thanos Snapping half the population; you simply can't make a new law and retroactively punish people.

B. Your point? Until it is confirmed to be unintended by the devs, who's to say that Covert Lethality+ Ash isn't an exploit, considering there used to be some Covert Lethality exploit with arcanes that went unpunished.

C. Bug Exploit-> Ban? Meanwhile there were other exploits that were never punished: Infinite HP, Infinite Energy, Infinite Travel Speed, Infinite Power Strength, (Remember the one where Eidolons have no shield? due to the) Quad Shield Disruption Eidolon hunt, 1 shot kill anything Exodia+Covert, Infinite Damage on next shot, 0.5 Seconds Dojo Obstacle time, Transmuting Primed Chamber! The list goes on. However this is quite the rare occurrence that DE is retroactively seeking players after no damage is done.

D. Your logic is flawed, exploitation of a system is synonymous with taking advantage of a system. The legal system is no different as Lawyers are encouraged to take advantage of the law to best benefit their client, whilst simultaneously, prosecutors will do the same to make sure criminals are charged to the fullest extent of the law. It's a double edged sword, and not being competitive is choice, not law. In real life, if you exploit a system, 1 of 3 things happen:

1. They restore the event to a previous state (Like ordering a mispriced item off amazon and they cancel your order with notice and coupon voucher)
2. They let it slide and patch the exploit by enacting new laws or consider it a violation of other laws and press charges
3. They consider it legal, nothing is done.

in this case, they're using the "violation of other laws" which is the one where DE reserves the right to change their (beta) product and/or deny access to their product for any reason. Everyone is over-complicating the situation; DE simply has the right to Ban anyone for whatever reason because it's their game. There's also a Clause in there that says their word has no legal binding, therefore Founders Pack can return and players cannot sue them even for false advertisement.

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1 hour ago, -TSA-Vendetta said:

...

About the Q&A issue i have nice quote about this 

 

"Next, we have teams of QA that are much better at their job than anyone else looking for bugs. We do not need, we do not want, and we do not allow you to use bug testing as an excuse for anything as it is not your job. If it's again the Terms of Service, don't do it."

this came from Support and since then i realised how f ed up DE sometimes handles their business everytime i see this quote i smile and cry at the same time because its so crazy to deny help from the community but it hurts to much at the same time that this game and community which is/was so great gets destroyed by their policy 

..... 

I.... I don't rightly know how to respond to this.  Thank you for something to think about going forward.

 

 

I'd love to make an extended response regarding the EULA and ToS.  At this point I'm not sure what value it would have, given the above and one sided nature of the required agreement.  

 

I guess I am hoping for better.  I guess I'm hoping that spending the time to offer feedback on the forums without devolving into frustrated ranting is something which will help.  At this point, I'm having a hard time understanding whether DE has the ability to step two feet back from themselves and evaluate their actions.  The ban hammer indicates that self reflection may be lacking.  Hopefully some reasonable feedback can get them to take a second look at the bans.

I say all of this knowing nobody who ate a ban for this.  I don't care that somebody found an exploit and used it.  I care that this sets a precedent that is not good.  DE choosing to ban without discussion, or even explaining why this deserves such a permanent response, is step one toward a dark place.  It's our responsibility to give them an opportunity to fix this, and judge with our money whether the message was taken.  For framing, I bought Mass Effect 2 and refused to buy DLC because of the Cerberus Network shenanigans.  I dropped EA entirely when Crysis 2 required Origin and released broken.  I spent the bare minimum to post the sentiments to EA, and watched.  ME3, Dungeon Keeper, Command and Conquer, Plants vs. Zombies, and numerous other situations demonstrated they learned nothing.  SW Battlefront 2 and other recent games have cemented that lack of care for customers, which finally got to boiling.  I hope that DE doesn't let that same thing happen to them.  

 

I guess the positive is if I'm forced into another hiatus I might be able to simply not engage when I return.  Twice burned is thrice cautious, or whatever the colloquialism is.

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Are eye eyes supposed to be rare. I have yet to see them with the bait in cold and warm weather does anyone know if the spawns are bugged or is the rng THAT LOW?

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I imagine those defending the exploit users are the ones that won’t be playing much once the ban takes effect. I for one have no sympathy.

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15 minutes ago, Sakotsuwari said:

I imagine those defending the exploit users are the ones that won’t be playing much once the ban takes effect. I for one have no sympathy.

It is indeed true .

A lot of those tenno probably made the mistake of trying it and do not want to lose their accounts.

Its normal to defend what you worked hard to get even if you did a mistake.

Edited by trunks013

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30 minutes ago, Sakotsuwari said:

I imagine those defending the exploit users are the ones that won’t be playing much once the ban takes effect. I for one have no sympathy.

Because next time they might wanna ban us for god knows what else like using a macro on melee or using operator to quickly capture a target etc...Oh and one more thing DE you probably wanna check the videos that YOUR partners post next time just an idea.

Edited by ReyaXZy
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stupid, is it going to reset what exploits people abused by suspending accounts? no, it wont. maybe need I remind you it your own fault as a company that exploit exists? I have to say your logic eludes me. 

 

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