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players got banned for exploiting a bug


Sharkgoblin
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Wonder how much this will add to the conversation. On the part of using a macro to speed up the process, yeah I agree at that point its an exploit.

But the knowingly using a bug to your advantage, not so much...

Idk if you guys know about this, but soon after void fissures got endless mission relic opening (because at launch you could only open 1 relic per mission regardless of what it was) there was a bug, a bug where you could endlessly stack the corruption buffs by using operators. And guess what people did with those buffs? Cheese fissure defense and survival because you could have an infinitely stacking power strength and range equinox and (prerework) Saryn), yes there were videos telling people how to do it before it got patched and to my knowledge noone was banned.

It was patched, DE did not call it an exploit in the patch notes, it was just a bug that was fixed.

Opinion:

I don't agree that they deserve a full 2035 ban (which is a stupid random year, I'd rather it be a timed ban based on the date the ban was issued). Imo they should have received a temporary suspension (not more than a month) and have Noob be removed from the partnership program and also a warning.

Why don't I think they should be hanged them for what they did? Well not only is what they did possible using other means (just takes longer) vs what happened with the corruption buff, but it could only be used to level weapons. Weapons... is it really that bad that they just used it to level weapons and a single warframe?

 

 

Edited by Madway7
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3 minutes ago, Madway7 said:

Wonder how much this will add to the conversation. On the part of using a macro to speed up the process, yeah I agree at that point its an exploit.

But the knowingly using a bug to your advantage, not so much...

Idk if you guys know about this, but soon after void fissures got endless mission relic opening (because at launch you could only open 1 relic per mission regardless of what it was) there was a bug, a bug where you could endlessly stack the corruption buffs by using operators. And guess what people did with those buffs? Cheese fissure defense because you could have an infinitely stacking power strength and range equinox and (prerework) Saryn), yes there were videos telling people how to do it before it got patched and to my knowledge noone was banned.

It was patched, DE did not call it an exploit in the patch notes, it was just a bug that was fixed.

Opinion:

I don't agree that they deserve a full 2035 ban (which is a stupid random year, I'd rather it be a timed ban based on the date the ban was issued). Imo they should have received a temporary suspension (not more than a month) and have Noob be removed from the partnership program and also a warning.

Why don't I think they should be hanged them for what they did? Well not only is what they did possible using other means (just takes longer) vs what happened with the corruption buff, but it could only be used to level weapons. Weapons... is it really that bad that they just used it to level weapons and a single warframe?

 

 

All macro users will get a ban til 2035 even without exploiting a bug. The bug is irrelevant here. 

Edited by Marvelous_A
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6 minutes ago, Marvelous_A said:

All macro users will get a ban til 2035 even without exploiting a bug. The bug is irrelevant here. 

Last I read the title the bug was part of the conversation, but I suppose since it shifted to a discussion about the macros and different types it became irrelevant. (Since I don't know much about macros I can't really say anything about them one way or the other)

I still see people condemning them on the basis of the exploitation of a bug, so I wanted to state my opinion on that part.

I still think the 2035 should be changed to a ban based on the day it was issued tho.

Edited by Madway7
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18 minutes ago, Madway7 said:

Wonder how much this will add to the conversation. On the part of using a macro to speed up the process, yeah I agree at that point its an exploit.

But the knowingly using a bug to your advantage, not so much...

Idk if you guys know about this, but soon after void fissures got endless mission relic opening (because at launch you could only open 1 relic per mission regardless of what it was) there was a bug, a bug where you could endlessly stack the corruption buffs by using operators. And guess what people did with those buffs? Cheese fissure defense and survival because you could have an infinitely stacking power strength and range equinox and (prerework) Saryn), yes there were videos telling people how to do it before it got patched and to my knowledge noone was banned.

It was patched, DE did not call it an exploit in the patch notes, it was just a bug that was fixed.

Opinion:

I don't agree that they deserve a full 2035 ban (which is a stupid random year, I'd rather it be a timed ban based on the date the ban was issued). Imo they should have received a temporary suspension (not more than a month) and have Noob be removed from the partnership program and also a warning.

Why don't I think they should be hanged them for what they did? Well not only is what they did possible using other means (just takes longer) vs what happened with the corruption buff, but it could only be used to level weapons. Weapons... is it really that bad that they just used it to level weapons and a single warframe?

 

 

Its not a bug, its exploiting a game mechanic, 1. venari not spawning in certain areas due to lack of solid ground to spawn upon.  2.  Macro to endlessly spam 3 for affinity gain.


However, a ban until 2035?  I don't know, yeah it broke the end user license agreement but christ almighty that's a long time.

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1 hour ago, Arniox said:

OK. I was going to side with the OP on this, but a macro is literally breaking eula. Eula states somewhere that macros or other external scripts that interfere with the game are bannable. 

So did noob get banned then? I haven't really been following this at all. Didn't even know there was an exploit 

Actually, they don't state anything about macros, they do state

f. use cheats, automation software (bots), hacks, mods or any other unauthorized third-party software, tools or content designed to modify the Software, the Service or the Game experience;

Automation software would be macros however, the macro itself would basically play the game for you like an actual bot.  The meme strike macro which is a popular topic about macros does not allow a person to afk since the person still has to move around and actually interact.  If the macro was carefully scripted to actually play the game for you as in select missions, grab life support and continue to attack while you aren't there, then that's a bot.


Think about it, have you actually seen a thread post about a person being banned for using a macro because I haven't.  

 

https://www.warframe.com/eula

https://www.warframe.com/terms

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2 hours ago, Arniox said:

Welp.... I wonder if he can get out of that. If he can't... Well that's his look out and his fault entirely. 

I hope not. their intention of releasing a video explaining how to do it was to get other people who didn't know doing it. Possibly with a motive of seeking views but doubt it would of changed their channel that drastically either. 

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1 hour ago, Marvelous_A said:

"Congratulation with your promotion. Well deserved."

FYI you will get banned for using macro be it exploiting bugs or not. It's more on using a macro rather than the bug itself.

False, you cant get banned for a simple macro such as spam fire button, however, anything that severly automate your gameplay like a slide+spin attack spam macro is actually a problem.

so long its within normal use its fine.

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Just because you're able to do a thing...doesn't mean you should.

5 hours ago, Dhrekr said:

Accidentally benefitting of a bug? That can happen to anyone. It probably has happened to everyone.

Reproducing the bug and benefitting from it? You're on icy ground.

Going out of your way to build a macro to abuse the bug as ruthlessly as you can? Might as well beg to be banned.

Pretty much.

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11 minutes ago, BloodKitten said:

False, you cant get banned for a simple macro such as spam fire button, however, anything that severly automate your gameplay like a slide+spin attack spam macro is actually a problem.

so long its within normal use its fine.

You are eligible for banning with a simple macro but DE intentionally leave it in grey zone (by not giving a clear standard). 

AFAIK DE can and will ban you for running specialized macro software in background even if you are not actively using it.  I've seen players reporting since 2016 in my local Warframe community.

However built-in mouse macro for simple action e.g. slide attack is not punished (yet) as long as it's not automated.

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@Madway7

They were given a suspension that lasts until 2035 OR they contact DE support to work things out. It's only a ban if they decide not to talk to DE. Having it last until 2035 deters players who might just say "can't play for a month? w/e, I'll go play Destiny 2 until it ends."

Edited by MasterBurik
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1 hour ago, Madway7 said:

Wonder how much this will add to the conversation. On the part of using a macro to speed up the process, yeah I agree at that point its an exploit.

But the knowingly using a bug to your advantage, not so much...

Idk if you guys know about this, but soon after void fissures got endless mission relic opening (because at launch you could only open 1 relic per mission regardless of what it was) there was a bug, a bug where you could endlessly stack the corruption buffs by using operators. And guess what people did with those buffs? Cheese fissure defense and survival because you could have an infinitely stacking power strength and range equinox and (prerework) Saryn), yes there were videos telling people how to do it before it got patched and to my knowledge noone was banned.

It was patched, DE did not call it an exploit in the patch notes, it was just a bug that was fixed.

Opinion:

I don't agree that they deserve a full 2035 ban (which is a stupid random year, I'd rather it be a timed ban based on the date the ban was issued). Imo they should have received a temporary suspension (not more than a month) and have Noob be removed from the partnership program and also a warning.

Why don't I think they should be hanged them for what they did? Well not only is what they did possible using other means (just takes longer) vs what happened with the corruption buff, but it could only be used to level weapons. Weapons... is it really that bad that they just used it to level weapons and a single warframe?

 

 

There is a big difference between exploiting a bug that makes something easier/trivial and one that could allow you to dump 3+ forma within 14-60 seconds(especially when paired with a macro), a rather massive shortcut for something that usually takes 10 minutes minimum. Anyone who did this several times to max out multiple items deserves a ban (especially noob for not only making a video showing how to do it but to also encourage the use of macros).

And the 2035 bans are usually autodetected bans. Anyone who feels their ban is unjustified is free to take it up with DE support. Ultimately exploiting any bugs/unintended game mechanics, even if not explicitly stated, are subject to punishments and anyone who intentionally tries to use them are willingly risking their accounts in the process.

Edited by trst
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14 minutes ago, Marvelous_A said:

You are eligible for banning with a simple macro but DE intentionally leave it in grey zone (by not giving a clear standard). 

AFAIK DE can and will ban you for running specialized macro software in background even if you are not actively using it.  I've seen players reporting since 2016 in my local Warframe community.

However built-in mouse macro for simple action e.g. slide attack is not punished (yet) as long as it's not automated.

just using it for semi auto or burst fire weapons is fine, it actually helps since i have issues with my fingers, and i rather not limit myself to automatic weapons.

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Edit: Nevermind, partner and following were apparently fully aware of the possibility of a ban. Perma-bans deserved.

On the subject of macros, DE allows simple macros that are arguably used for accessibility purposes. They draw the line at "it plays the game for you," which is definitely a gray area and open to interpretation... but cyclically injecting affinity into weapons faster than humanly possible is obviously crossing that line.

Edited by DiabolusUrsus
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5 hours ago, -_Highlander_- said:

i Dont realy get it .. maby iam an weard person but thats ok 

anyhow

Some keyboard big brand names are supporting macro as an standard feature ..

would devs Ban everyone that useing this feature to make themself easyer to battle ..

or am i wrong .. 

Look at the Logitech G19 .. fully supported with Macro .. its an gamers Keyboard .. the person behind it can't be blamed for something that isn't blocked out in the first place

and No iam not an supporter towards those that have an exploit found an abuse it for there own purpose ( Destroying Fairness against others ) 

 

Macros that allow you to keybind a couple keys in sequence usually are fine.

When the macros are done that makes the game not run automatically but trivializes the content, devs either start breaking apps like that; or if it's to automate, ban players outright. They tried to break DBM but that addon is so popular, to break it, would kill the game, as everyone but their dead uncle is using it (raids now are designed with DBM in mind now).

WoW had some really difficult times with Logitech keyboards years ago, and they broke how abilities are cast since then (the current mess with Global cooldowns was Blizzard trying to break bots, which hurt game play for humans -- they put too many abilities on GCD to break timed sequencing of macros).

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/10496440004

So, no, Logitech's keyboards ISN'T always supported.

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I Think a  15 Year ban is too harsh considering all they d2ie is to Level a few weapons, which can already be instantly fast. For Economy/Game Breaking Bugs id agree, but a bit of xp? Macro cant really be the reason, since binding venari to your scroll wheel did the same.

Also, didnt N00b said you need to forma Khora to Pull this Off? So those People had faster leveling, but needed to constantly waste forma to keep it going

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2 minutes ago, Eisdschungel said:

I Think a  15 Year ban is too harsh

Ya'll need to stop counting the numbers and realise it's a perma-ban. The length is irrelevant. Most likely 2035 was chosen because DE expects the game will be dead before then. I had friends on XBL that got 10,000 year 'suspensions' for j tagging their console.

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4 hours ago, Madway7 said:

I don't agree that they deserve a full 2035 ban (which is a stupid random year

17 years is probably the maximum amount of time they can ban due to some limitations on their system side. And since noone expects the game to still be running in 17 years it's effectively a perma ban

I worked for a game that "perma banned" users for 9001 days (insert stupid meme here) because that was the maximum amount of time the system allowed without glitching out and unbanning the user again.

 

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since this exploit was shown by a partner many think they did nothing wrong, but,  they did. 

DE should consider talking to partners about these things or reconsider the bans as many players (but not all) didn't think they did anything wrong. 

Maybe this should be discussed in a devstream or in a forum thread. 

Not defending or pointing fingers at anyone, players or partners just saying this should be discussed. 

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16 hours ago, (PS4)TONI__RIBEIRO said:

since this exploit was shown by a partner many think they did nothing wrong, but,  they did. 

DE should consider talking to partners about these things or reconsider the bans as many players (but not all) didn't think they did anything wrong. 

Maybe this should be discussed in a devstream or in a forum thread. 

Not defending or pointing fingers at anyone, players or partners just saying this should be discussed. 

Thing is, maybe it's BECAUSE he's a partner that's why the punishment was so severe. 

He had a platform, a following, and (i assume) an avenue to openly communicate with DE. 

He discovered a bug that could be exploited, and instead of contacting DE about it; he made a video INSTRUCTING players how to do it. He also ENCOURAGED people to use macros by stating that the effect of the affinity gain would be so much more potent when used with one.

He even mentions they could get banned for doing it. So it's not like he's going in blind.

Also, the keyword in Megan's post was 'knowingly'. He knowingly abused it. propagated it. and now has to pay for it.

My 2 cents.

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Since i have seen founders receive bans when doing things that aren't allowed, i'm not suprised a partner receiving a ban, afterall the rules are for everyone, many founders believed they were imune to bans and warns, a warn for afk, they never really tought it would happen.

This exploit is no different than a player entering a mission and then getting the final reward, the player only entered the mission but didn't do anything besides that.

In this case the player aligned a set of things and then activated the macro, no gameplay was done and so alot of it was skiped intentionally.

The only difference here is that afk players are warned once and then banned, here the partner and other players were simply banned, i believe that is a tad much, a 4 month ban would suffice, but again, i don't make the rules, i simply follow them and none seem unreasonable

This is a very similar scenarion to that player on reddit that got banned from leeching in pvp because a video showed it, players should 1st gain common sense and understand the rules before even going into seeing youtube videos (which are for the most part pointless)

I believe DE acted accordingly, best other players can do is to learn from the mistake of others

I just want to point out something to DE, when some players were getting ready to exploit and make duplicates of riven mods (and other mods) when going to the switch, you removed the mods altogether, i really wished you used some man power to manually search the players (even if it was hard) and ban them from both the PC and the nintendo switch, you lost an opportunity to filter the playerbase and remove players who had clear intention to exploit and gain thousands of platinum, you know, heavy hand like how you're doing here..

Edited by KIREEK
small typo
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I find it funny how pretty much everyone agrees that exploiters should be punished, yet noone really cares that DE keeps warframe in nevereding BETA phase.

1 side abuses a bug, while other abuses concept of what BETA is supposed to be.

 

Personally. Simple exp-rollback and slap in the butt, a.k.a up to 2 weeks temp-ban should be more than plenty. If the exploit screwed with whole playerbase, then perma ban is more than required. Otherwise it just feels like it's all for show and PR. 

 

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22 minutes ago, deothor said:

I find it funny how pretty much everyone agrees that exploiters should be punished, yet noone really cares that DE keeps warframe in nevereding BETA phase.

1 side abuses a bug, while other abuses concept of what BETA is supposed to be.

Personally. Simple exp-rollback and slap in the butt, a.k.a up to 2 weeks temp-ban should be more than plenty. If the exploit screwed with whole playerbase, then perma ban is more than required. Otherwise it just feels like it's all for show and PR. 

 

Na it's good that they crack down hard on the exploiters. Keeping the game in the BETA state has nothing to do with what can be done or not since the game is still a full release at this point. The reason they call it beta is because it isnt feature complete yet and they may change bigger things as they see fit when new ideas pop up.

If this was a beta with constant account or character resets it would be a different thing, but that isnt the case. The people exploiting could have skipped doing so and instead reported the issue asap and then avoided said exploit. It is one thing to run into a bug once, but repreating it over and over while keeping quiet is a big no-no. Also being a partner and doing this is shady as #*!%. DE provided him with this opportunity, more or less giving him free advertising, which in turn gives him viewers, which results in him getting cash on it.

Dont bite the hand that feeds you.

Plus, rolling back xp etc. takes time and resources from DE, they have no way of knowing if he'll be back doing some new shennanigans soon after his suspension is up. Should they do yet another roll back then, wasting more resources on the same person yet again just because the game is in "beta"?

edit: For the record, I have nothing against people using certain spin-to-win macros or similar. Not everyone has the possibility to do it all manually for one reason or another. Some have illnesses or disabilities that renders them incapable of doing those things that other of us can enjoy. DE letting those people (and others) use macros to be able to enjoy the game is a good choice imo since it may be what takes them through the days.

Edited by SneakyErvin
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