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[Ability Feedback] Mesa and Ballistic Battery


FoxFX
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THE ABILITY

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Ballistic Battery

BallisticBatteryBallisticBattery

Mesa converts 40% / 50% / 60% / 70% of the total damage inflicted by her primary and secondary weapons into raw energy. A maximum of 20 / 50 / 90 / 140 damage is stored for every instance of damage, and a maximum of 400 / 800 / 1200 / 1600 damage is stored at full capacity. When Ballistic Battery is deactivated by pressing the ability key again (default 1 ), the stored damage is unleashed on the next gunshot fired.

 

MAIN ISSUES ON ABILITY "BALLISTIC BATTERY"

  • In terms of firepower, Ballistic Battery is very limited by the amount of damage you can store for each attack and in total
  • In terms of practicality, saving energy for Mesa's Shooting Gallery, Shatter Shield, or Peacemaker pay off much more in the long run
  • The need to toggle on this ability to unleash a low-damaging attack can feel a bit slow and unnecessary for its cost
  • Ballistic Battery will hit only ONE enemy from what I have tested which is a major drawback to Warframe's now awareness of dealing with mobs of enemies
  • Ballistic Bullseye [Augment] is not seeing much use with this ability's function

 

EXPERIMENTATION SOLUTION FOR A NEW EFFECT FOR "BALLISTIC BATTERY"

OPTION #1

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Ballistic Battery [OPTION 1]

Mesa instantly reloads the ammunition of her currently wielded Primary/Secondary weapon. The next "#" hits {# equal to the number of ammo reloaded with Ballistic Battery} of the reloaded Primary/Secondary attacks are buffed. You can use this effect if there is no reserved ammo to instantly reload the magazine (this will fill the magazine, but may cost extra energy).

List of possible buffs for the reloaded ammo with Ballistic Battery

  • The next # bullets deal bonus damage
  • The next # bullets deal increased Critical Damage
  • The next # bullets have increased Multishot
  • The next # bullets have heavily increased +Dead Aim

Can be used while Peacekeeper is active to instantly restock the next 6 Peacekeeper attacks with a buff

 

ON OPTION #1

[+] Offers a more convenient version of Mesa's 1st and one that can easily redesign Ballistic Battery's Augment to apply guaranteed Status Effect to the # of hits

[+] Creates a better style of setting up your shots to be more devastating

[+] Has a special use when combining it with Peacekeeper

[-] Hard to determine how this ability can work with weapons like Bows that have no clip/magazine functions

[-] May require players time to adjust the benefits of using Mesa's instant reload function of this ability

[-] Suffers as an ability that does not instantly deal with multiple enemies at once

 

OPTION #2 {WIP}

9 hours ago, Teridax68 said:

I like the proposed ability rework a lot, and the instant reload could allow for some cool stuff to be done with certain guns. If I were to propose an alteration, it would be to make the effect more of a hybrid between the current and proposed version, i.e. to have Mesa passively store a portion of the gun damage she deals (without having to activate the ability), and expend a portion of that damage to enhance her next shot upon activating her 1, with the buff being able to stack. That way, you could still have the gameplay of charging up power from gunplay, while also having a more interesting series of choice tied to managing one's bonus damage, choosing whether to use the ability more for the damage or for the instant reload (or both), and so on.

Edited by FoxFX
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I like the proposed ability rework a lot, and the instant reload could allow for some cool stuff to be done with certain guns. If I were to propose an alteration, it would be to make the effect more of a hybrid between the current and proposed version, i.e. to have Mesa passively store a portion of the gun damage she deals (without having to activate the ability), and expend a portion of that damage to enhance her next shot upon activating her 1, with the buff being able to stack. That way, you could still have the gameplay of charging up power from gunplay, while also having a more interesting series of choice tied to managing one's bonus damage, choosing whether to use the ability more for the damage or for the instant reload (or both), and so on.

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I like this rework suggestion.

I agree with your assessment of it's current flaws, and I think that rework could give it a more natural feel in her kit. It gives her the ability to use effectively use weapons other than her exalted, and keeps her an active gunslinger.

7 hours ago, FoxFX said:

The next # bullets have heavily increased +Dead Aim

This is the buff I would prefer. My reasoning for that is that she already has a mindless auto-aim kill everything ability with her 4, so her 1 could reward player effort of manual precision through aiming. Having it require aiming to receive the buff could also let you save the buffed shots for when they are needed, allowing hip fire for normal damage the rest of the time. I think with this specific buff it also wouldn't be overpowered to additionally make those shots stagger opponents when hit, giving it a more forceful feel and minor cc.

7 hours ago, FoxFX said:

[-] Hard to determine how this ability can work with weapons like Bows that have no clip/magazine functions

Considering this, I would count the Reload and Buffed shots as two separate mechanics of the ability that trigger (*is that a punnn?*) when the ability is cast. Bows wouldn't get the reload feature (except for the extra cost when out of arrows), but still get the buff to the next # of shots. Maybe it makes the draw time instant instead. My most used primary weapons are Dread and Rakta Cernos so I can confirm it would still be useful even if it's not the full effect of the ability. 

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7 hours ago, taiiat said:

i'm stealing this, just so you know.

...uh...what for?

 

7 hours ago, (PS4)Equinox21697 said:

I like using that ability because of how cool it looks, it feels like you're hitting with the force of a truck even though you barely scratch most enemies it hits. 

Maybe adding a guranteed crit with a high multiplier and or punch through would make it more viable

I forgot to add in punch-through effect as an option for the OPTION #1 Ballistic Battery

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6 hours ago, Teridax68 said:

I like the proposed ability rework a lot, and the instant reload could allow for some cool stuff to be done with certain guns. If I were to propose an alteration, it would be to make the effect more of a hybrid between the current and proposed version, i.e. to have Mesa passively store a portion of the gun damage she deals (without having to activate the ability), and expend a portion of that damage to enhance her next shot upon activating her 1, with the buff being able to stack. That way, you could still have the gameplay of charging up power from gunplay, while also having a more interesting series of choice tied to managing one's bonus damage, choosing whether to use the ability more for the damage or for the instant reload (or both), and so on.

I will take this as OPTION #2. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this.

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If more ideas are welcome, keep the charge function but instead make her fire a stronger Peacemakerround after deactivation instead of the usual primary Fire, similar to Opticor, with Punchthrough and width based on how much dmg you stored. Augment could make it less powerful but allow several shots instead, giving it an actual purpose and altering gameplay. 

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The proposed rework is nice. One of the longstanding criticisms of Ballistic Battery is that it favors high-damage, semi-auto weapons. Giving it a boost of one magazine instead of one shot will make it much more useable. 

I would like the following buffs though:

flat % increase to status chance, duration, modded with ability duration;

flat % crit chance, and crit multiplier. modded with ability strength;

2.5m punch through, moddable with ability range. Doubled on snipers and bows.

This gives notable increases to weapon damage which scales with the player's weapons, instead of becoming irrelevant as the player's power envelope increases.

Augment:

Ricochet. The bullet will ricochet up to 1/2/3/4 times hitting enemies with infinite punch-through, up to 10/20/30/40 meters away.

 

 

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1 hour ago, BrazilianJoe said:

The proposed rework is nice. One of the longstanding criticisms of Ballistic Battery is that it favors high-damage, semi-auto weapons. Giving it a boost of one magazine instead of one shot will make it much more useable. 

I would like the following buffs though:

flat % increase to status chance, duration, modded with ability duration;

flat % crit chance, and crit multiplier. modded with ability strength;

2.5m punch through, moddable with ability range. Doubled on snipers and bows.

This gives notable increases to weapon damage which scales with the player's weapons, instead of becoming irrelevant as the player's power envelope increases.

Augment:

Ricochet. The bullet will ricochet up to 1/2/3/4 times hitting enemies with infinite punch-through, up to 10/20/30/40 meters away.

 

 

I have been considering ricochet effect for Mesa, though my only concern is what would trigger first in this idea: the punch-through or the ricochet effect?

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1 hour ago, FoxFX said:

I have been considering ricochet effect for Mesa, though my only concern is what would trigger first in this idea: the punch-through or the ricochet effect?

I feel the ability is best served with punch-through on its basic effect, and the Ricochet as an Augment.


Ricochet is arguably more useful, and should have much more range than the punch-through.
As an Augment and usability, Ricochet IMO woud take precedence.
After the last Ricochet, punch through would still take effect.


It also would interact with other abilities, like Mag's magnetize for instance.
In normal circumstances, projectile weapons with punch through pass though the Magnetize target multiple times, as long as the punch through permits, making it much more effective. 
Ricochet would guarantee up to 4 hits even with hitscan weapons, and on top of that the punch though would take place. In the case of Magnetize's interaction, punch through is relevant only for projectiles.

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How about:

Ballistic Battery applies to the current clip and cannot be recast. If you runout or reload you lose it.

Every kill reloads 2 bullets or 20% (whichever is more rounded down.

If you get a kill with the last bullet you always get 2 back.

Each missed shot adds 20% accuracy for 5s.

Each head shot adds 10% base crit chance for 5s.

Each melee kill (gunblades included) adds 10% status for 5s.

All affected by power strength and duration mods.

These would all be good for scaled content as in long drawn out battles you could keep up some amazing buffs, but it would be like spinning plates.

 

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3 hours ago, (XB1)KayAitch said:

How about:

Ballistic Battery applies to the current clip and cannot be recast. If you runout or reload you lose it.

Every kill reloads 2 bullets or 20% (whichever is more rounded down.

If you get a kill with the last bullet you always get 2 back.

Each missed shot adds 20% accuracy for 5s.

Each head shot adds 10% base crit chance for 5s.

Each melee kill (gunblades included) adds 10% status for 5s.

All affected by power strength and duration mods.

These would all be good for scaled content as in long drawn out battles you could keep up some amazing buffs, but it would be like spinning plates.

 

Only problem with this is that it still works best with high damage semi auto weapons.  Also, the melee portion goes against her passive health gain when she has no melee, melee doesn’t fit here theme/kit

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2 hours ago, Littlemike137 said:

Only problem with this is that it still works best with high damage semi auto weapons.  Also, the melee portion goes against her passive health gain when she has no melee, melee doesn’t fit here theme/kit

This is apparently true. Mesa is a specialist solely in Secondary/Primary Weaponry. That is why I made OPTION #1 and have supported the candidate for OPTION #2.

 

I am working on a 3rd OPTION as we speak.

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Notes on OPTION #3

Based on the Revolver having 6 rounds, I have been thinking of turning Ballistic Battery into a toggle buff for Mesa that allows every 6 hit from Primary/Secondary to be an explosive round. This toggle would only drain energy on that 6th round

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18 hours ago, Littlemike137 said:

Only problem with this is that it still works best with high damage semi auto weapons

That's not really a bad thing, but it would work for low ammo snipers too, so long as you don't miss. That adds a skill element to get the most out of it.

18 hours ago, Littlemike137 said:

Also, the melee portion goes against her passive health gain when she has no melee, melee doesn’t fit here theme/kit

Mesa Prime is coming with a gunblade. Also the melee passive is pointless anyway, if they're rewriting her 1 changing her passive is a minor tweak.

16 hours ago, FoxFX said:

Mesa is a specialist solely in Secondary/Primary Weaponry. That is why I made OPTION #1 and have supported the candidate for OPTION #2.

Yeah, looks like that from her passive, but almost nobody runs her without melee - you just lose too much mobility and utility for a measly 50hp.

It doesn't rely on the melee thing though, you could make arial kills, or proc kills, or whatever grant status instead.

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On 2018-12-11 at 9:18 PM, (XB1)KayAitch said:

How about:

Ballistic Battery applies to the current clip and cannot be recast. If you runout or reload you lose it.

Every kill reloads 2 bullets or 20% (whichever is more rounded down.

If you get a kill with the last bullet you always get 2 back.

 Each missed shot adds 20% accuracy for 5s.

Each head shot adds 10% base crit chance for 5s.

Each melee kill (gunblades included) adds 10% status for 5s.

All affected by power strength and duration mods.

These would all be good for scaled content as in long drawn out battles you could keep up some amazing buffs, but it would be like spinning plates.


Ah yes, i also would love to see Tigris Prime as a fully automatic never reload shotgun.

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While some of the suggestions here do deal with this issue, I'll note something: Mesa's 1 has another problem besides the cap in that it doesn't affect multishot, only one instance of damage, which makes its augment worthless for its biggest potential use case (attempting to make a shotgun into a 100% status weapon) on top of further weakening it.

A true one-damage-instance damage buff doesn't work very well in the context of how Warframe's weapons work.

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3 hours ago, CommanderDC said:

While some of the suggestions here do deal with this issue, I'll note something: Mesa's 1 has another problem besides the cap in that it doesn't affect multishot, only one instance of damage, which makes its augment worthless for its biggest potential use case (attempting to make a shotgun into a 100% status weapon) on top of further weakening it.

A true one-damage-instance damage buff doesn't work very well in the context of how Warframe's weapons work.

I figured that was the case when I was testing a few things with Ballistic Battery.

 

If you guys have any thoughts on this particular ability of Mesa, please feel free to share.

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On a post I recently made earlier today where I reworked some damage types and every warframe, this was my thoughts on how to rework her 1 and its augment. My take on it was that she is a "western cowgirl", so the idea making 6 shots powerful comes from the "six-shooters" that are were prevalent then. 

BALLISTIC BATTERY

When you use the ability after it is has some charge, it charges up to 6 of the remaining shots of the magazine of whatever gun you are currently holding. Stored damage is divided evenly between all charged shots. Reloading your gun removes the magazine, therefore the charged ammo is lost. Ability Strength does not affect the number of charged shots. (Basically a single shot weapon would still have one very strong hit, but a sniper rifle with a bigger magazine would have 6 shots with the additional damage split between them)

BALLISTIC BULLSEYE

Reworked. When Ballistic Battery is charged to 100% and is then used to charge the shots, all the charged shots gain a 100% Status Chance and 4 Punch Through.

Edited by Pryzmatiq
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11 hours ago, Pryzmatiq said:

On a post I recently made earlier today where I reworked some damage types and every warframe, this was my thoughts on how to rework her 1 and its augment. My take on it was that she is a "western cowgirl", so the idea making 6 shots powerful comes from the "six-shooters" that are were prevalent then. 

BALLISTIC BATTERY

When you use the ability after it is has some charge, it charges up to 6 of the remaining shots of the magazine of whatever gun you are currently holding. Stored damage is divided evenly between all charged shots. Reloading your gun removes the magazine, therefore the charged ammo is lost. Ability Strength does not affect the number of charged shots. (Basically a single shot weapon would still have one very strong hit, but a sniper rifle with a bigger magazine would have 6 shots with the additional damage split between them)

BALLISTIC BULLSEYE

Reworked. When Ballistic Battery is charged to 100% and is then used to charge the shots, all the charged shots gain a 100% Status Chance and 4 Punch Through.

Do you feel that having punch-through sometimes can be a drawback in-game?

Edited by FoxFX
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5 hours ago, FoxFX said:

Do you feel that having punch-through sometimes can be a drawback in-game?

I can't really think of a time where it was, honestly. But that might just be me. If I was trying to be completely stealthy I might not want Punch Through to ensure targets die exactly how I want them to, and that I don't accidentally damage an enemy through a wall or something. Aside from that though, if enemies are alerted and coming at me, the more damage my bullet can do, the better.

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11 hours ago, Pryzmatiq said:
16 hours ago, FoxFX said:

Do you feel that having punch-through sometimes can be a drawback in-game?

I can't really think of a time where it was, honestly. But that might just be me.

Weapons that rely on secondary effects to do damage suffer with punch through. For instance the Lenz only does a fairly small amount of Impact on initial hit, then a cold proc and massive explosive when the projectile stops. Add punch through and your targets get the Impact and the wall behind them gets the cold proc and explosion.

See also Pox, Torid, Ogris, both Pentas, any bow with that explosion mod.

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8 hours ago, (XB1)KayAitch said:

Weapons that rely on secondary effects to do damage suffer with punch through. For instance the Lenz only does a fairly small amount of Impact on initial hit, then a cold proc and massive explosive when the projectile stops. Add punch through and your targets get the Impact and the wall behind them gets the cold proc and explosion.

See also Pox, Torid, Ogris, both Pentas, any bow with that explosion mod.

I figure that was my fear of suggesting punch-through. 

 

In the meantime, I am working on ideas to post a thread for Chroma's 1st and 4th fixes.

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