nagantaka crit chance (reliability)

[Ragingwasabi]

nagantaka is a very unreliable weapon. its capable of some serious damage, but only when rngesus lets you...

So what are the nagantaka's flaws? theres a lot, and they all link very closely making the each other even worse.

- slow fire rate

- bad crit chance (reliability issues)

- small magazine. (unsuccessful ie missed/non crit shots punish hard)

- slow projectile speed (hard to land shots)

- slow reload (exacerbates the issues listed above)

- and amazingly, the special ability that gets c*ckblocked by its own stats

the slow fire rate means it gets overwhelmed by crowds of enemies. u could use alt fire, but unless its a tightly packed group of enemies, you will probably waste half the arrows shooting at air since you can't stop it until the mag runs out. not saying the alt fire is bad though. its definitely perfect for unloading onto a single heavyunit/boss or a tightly packed group of enemies. primary fire though, is very slow, even if it was capable of 1 hitting everything. But no, at t5 vallis bounty levels it very often cant even headshot kill enemies because its of its unreliable crit chance. seriously, there is so much down time in between each shot, but thats not enough. lets also have the next 2-3 shots not crit!
so u just wasted a third of your tiny magazine slowly shooting 1 bolt at a time at a 1 trash mob because the crit chance is absolute garbage even with argon scope.

and lets not forget how hard it is to hit an enemy with a slow travelling bolt compared to a hitscan gun. small mag, bad crit reliability, slow fire rate AND the high chance of missing shots.

even if you are an MLG pro and can land 360 noscope headshots on a sprinting enemy from 100m away with a crossbow, you might not be rewarded. this weapon is not fun.

now lets talk about that special ability.
from the wiki: https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Nagantaka

>The reload speed buff only triggers from headshot kills from direct bolt damage. It does not trigger if killed by a damage over time effect made from a headshot's status proc.

if u look at the stats u will notice that oh... its got a 90% slash bias and 39% status chance.
ie. DE is nudging us to use viral slash build on the nagantaka. the best build for nagantakas IS viral slash. 
the DPS from a viral slash builds comes from its slash procs

THE BEST BUILD FOR THE NAGANTAKA'S STATS WILL RENDER THE NAGANTAKA'S OWN SPECIAL ABILITY USELESS.

solutions:

the absolute most important thing is to change the special ability to something like an innate argon scope.
no need to buff base crit, just allow headshots to buff crit by a flat amount or whatever so that it reaches 100% or close (with point strike installed).
this will make the nagantaka reliable but only as a reward for players who headshot.

base reload speed also needs to be buffed just a bit.

if these buffs are some how too "OP" i dont mind if the dmg stats are reduced. reduce the CD down to 2 or even 1.9. and/or reduce base dmg.
whatever it takes to increase the reliability of this crossbow. its definitely capable of massive overkill dmg, its just not reliable enough.



Please DE, ive always wanted a semi auto crossbow in WF and i was so excited when i first saw this. Please make it fun

 

EDIT: stop talking about 100% slash procs. doesnt fking matter if the ticks do useless dmg. they dont even hit 300 dmg. come back about the pure status builds when it gets its crit nerfed and its base dmg increased to tigris levels. its clearly meant to have crit mods in its build but its unreliable as sh!t. im not asking for a dps increase, im asking for a reliability increase. decrease the cd but increase cc. or get rid of crit stats and just increase base dmg. im asking for more reliable dmg that is all.

Edited December 11, 2018 by Ragingwasabi

[Rin-senpai]

1 hour ago, Ragingwasabi said:

ive

you are not the community 😉

solution is change build matching to weapon system
its full status weapon, crit is only add
viral + slice + fire with PRIMED SHRED - really enjoyable build

Edited December 11, 2018 by Rin-senpai

[Kainosh]

Why do you mod for Crit, when its a Status weapon...?   Stack bleed and Viral and watch em melt.....

But...I agree.  I didn't like Nagantaka at all.   Its not a bad weapon....But its not satisfying to use.   Feels too clumsy.......And i hate its Looks. Flimsy limbs on a massive body....ugh.

 

What i think about its stats :

> Projectiles are too slow for such a low firerate.  I would increase projectile speed to 160 m/s.

> Reload speed buff on Headshot doesn't work on a DoT oriented weapon.    Nope.    It should activate on KILL.

But I would just buff base reload speed to 1.3  and remove that "Headshot reload buff".   Its doesnt really suit this weapon.

 

Rest of it seems ok..

[Ragingwasabi]

38 minutes ago, Kainosh said:

 

if u look at the stats u will notice that oh... its got a 90% slash bias and 39% status chance.
ie. DE is nudging us to use viral slash build on the nagantaka. the best build for nagantakas IS viral slash. 
the DPS from a viral slash builds comes from its slash procs

from this paragraph its clear im using full blast damage build.

also if u dont mod for crit at all the damage sucks. considering theres no other way of buffing slash proc dmg either, what mods r u even putting. u need crit to bring this to higher levels. and at higher levels where u ned the crit to do dmg, it sucks because its unreliable

Edited December 11, 2018 by Ragingwasabi

[Ragingwasabi]

1 hour ago, Rin-senpai said:

you are not the community 😉

solution is change build matching to weapon system
its full status weapon, crit is only add
viral + slice + fire with PRIMED SHRED - really enjoyable build

i do and its not enjoyable. too many non crits. too many shots doing nothing.

your comment just completely ignores all the flaws i pointed out, why am i even bothering to reply...

Edited December 11, 2018 by Ragingwasabi

[Kainosh]

10 minutes ago, Ragingwasabi said:

its unreliable

100% proc chance with proper mods.  Pretty Reliable imo.

If you think that Crit is everything....you are wrong. 

[Ragingwasabi]

Just now, Kainosh said:

100% proc chance with proper mods.  Pretty Reliable imo.

If you think that Crit is everything....you are wrong. 

buddy 100% chance to proc slash that does less than 300 dmg per tick is not good

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

It’s primarily a status weapon.

[Rin-senpai]

7 hours ago, Ragingwasabi said:

buddy 100% chance to proc slash that does less than 300 dmg per tick is not good

with 100% status u are 100% sure to achieve more than one status with alt-fire
and then u take

viral - less 50% hp
fire - enemy panic + burning dot
slash - bleeding (dot) on HALFED hp

try more talking about bad-status stats... you are using weapon wrong, and you blame the DE xD
 

Edited December 11, 2018 by Rin-senpai

[Ragingwasabi]

1 hour ago, Rin-senpai said:

with 100% status u are 100% sure to achieve more than one status with alt-fire
and then u take

viral - less 50% hp
fire - enemy panic + burning dot
slash - bleeding (dot) on HALFED hp

try more talking about bad-status stats... you are using weapon wrong, and you blame the DE xD
 

ignored every fking part of my post including the part where i already use viral slash lmao.

how hard is it for u to understand that less than 300 dmg slach procs r absolutely useless on a weapon this slow and hard to land hits with on top of having a limited mag, a long reload and a passive ability that shoots itself in the foot. 

[Ragingwasabi]

1 hour ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

It’s primarily a status weapon.

the slash damage is bad without crits.

[Rin-senpai]

i'm done, i have only one answer...

[Ragingwasabi]

Just now, Rin-senpai said:

i'm done, i have only one answer...

same here, u cant seem to understand numbers

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

1 hour ago, Ragingwasabi said:

the slash damage is bad without crits.

It’s called balance. The weapons still very good.

[Atsia]

So you're complaining that it the Nagantaka has unreliable crits......when it isn't a crit based weapon in the first place? So whats if it's a status based semi-auto crossbow? Why should DE change it to cater to your taste and what you see as it's playstyle? I for one enjoy using it and how it can destroy with 100% status and high bleed procs,

[Ragingwasabi]

15 hours ago, Atsia said:

So you're complaining that it the Nagantaka has unreliable crits......when it isn't a crit based weapon in the first place? So whats if it's a status based semi-auto crossbow? Why should DE change it to cater to your taste and what you see as it's playstyle? I for one enjoy using it and how it can destroy with 100% status and high bleed procs,

 

18 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

It’s called balance. The weapons still very good.

300 dmg per tick is not good. im sorry.

have u thought that maybe im not asking for crit purely for the sake of crits? im asking for more reliable damage regardless of how its delivered. it doesnt matter to me if they drop the crit to 0 as long as they increase the base damage so one shot from the nagantaka doesnt tickle the enemy. crit or base damage it DOESNT MATTER. if u mod for status crit hybdrid, the nagantaka has unreliable damage. if u mod for pure status and no crit the nagantaka does tickle damage.

[AzureTerra]

its nice when it crits but its a Status weapon and you should build to its strengths. Mine hits reliably hard with every shot and has a very good chance of procing whatever damage ive set on it (Normally Viral)

 

Edited December 12, 2018 by AzureTerra

[Autongnosis]

@Ragingwasabi i can see where you come from, but tbh the only thing I'll really change would be to make DoT kills count for the weapon's passive.

Nagantaka is a weapon that can deal a massive amount of damage but the biggest factor is not your build but your loadout. There are several ways of adding flat crit chance to something via arcanes, an adarza kitty, or harrow (which incidentally solves all of the other problems like bad firerate and reload time). 

I would never run the nagantaka without an adarza. The utter devastation that gun can do in that loadout is ridiculous. My current loadout is on a Zephyr with jet stream as well, so it's basically a pocket sniper. I also ran it with harrow for a time (lasting covenant and adarza for lulz, nearly 150% crit chance with 70% uptime and 90% the remaining 30%).

I like the current set of stats because it has some drawbacks that can be worked around via your loadout tbh. 

 

EDIT: i also really LOVE your ign dude ❤️

Edited December 12, 2018 by Autongnosis

[Ragingwasabi]

4 hours ago, Autongnosis said:

 

yea that can kinda work, but now ur gun depends on a specific loadout to be good and i think thats just bad design. we an make a lot of bad weapons good just by using buff frames.
not to mention the adarza buff isnt always on. ur not always gonna have it which it comes back to the point of being unreliable.

also thanks lol

 

5 hours ago, AzureTerra said:

its nice when it crits but its a Status weapon and you should build to its strengths. Mine hits reliably hard with every shot and has a very good chance of procing whatever damage ive set on it (Normally Viral)

 

i know its a status weapon. if u read my post properly u would have seen that i use a viral slash build. too bad 300 dmg ticks isnt actually anything good!

Edited December 12, 2018 by Ragingwasabi

[AzureTerra]

most things i shoot mine at are dead from direct damage not faffing about worrying about a slash proc. If the proc happens and does damage then cool but its not a thing to need to change a weapon around when it does what it was released as very well.

Edited December 12, 2018 by AzureTerra

[Ragingwasabi]

15 minutes ago, AzureTerra said:

most things i shoot mine at are dead from direct damage not faffing about worrying about a slash proc. If the proc happens and does damage then cool but its not a thing to need to change a weapon around when it does what it was released as very well.

what level are those? im stacking on elementals to make full viral and its only hitting 2400 viral dmg. that is no where near enough for even mid game 

Edited December 12, 2018 by Ragingwasabi

[Fallen_Echo]

I have a solution what would make this weapon much better.

First we take the primary firemode and change it into a heavy crossbow mode. Slow firerate, reasonably wide projectile (soccer ball), atleast 3 meter punchthrought, high damage (atleast triple the base.

After that we change the secondary mode into toggle full-auto and buff the magsize to double plus we speed up the projectile.

[GinKenshin]

3 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

I have a solution what would make this weapon much better.

First we take the primary firemode and change it into a heavy crossbow mode. Slow firerate, reasonably wide projectile (soccer ball), atleast 3 meter punchthrought, high damage (atleast triple the base.

After that we change the secondary mode into toggle full-auto and buff the magsize to double plus we speed up the projectile.

make it better, as in change the whole damn thing 

just accept things for what they are and don't try to change it for what you want for once. the weapon works and doesn't need to be better. might as well make a new weapon at this point 

[Fallen_Echo]

2 hours ago, GinKenshin said:

make it better, as in change the whole damn thing 

just accept things for what they are and don't try to change it for what you want for once. 

This is not really more different than what happened with for example with the tonkor or the synoid simulor.

You cant always go and add slight changes and fix a weapon, sometimes drastic changes are needed to fix the problems.

2 hours ago, GinKenshin said:

the weapon works and doesn't need to be better. might as well make a new weapon at this point

You know what else worked? The telos boltace and yet.....it didnt stopped DE to go and change the weapon completely.

 

[GinKenshin]

2 hours ago, Fallen_Echo said:

This is not really more different than what happened with for example with the tonkor or the synoid simulor.

You cant always go and add slight changes and fix a weapon, sometimes drastic changes are needed to fix the problems.

You know what else worked? The telos boltace and yet.....it didnt stopped DE to go and change the weapon completely.

 

You do know all of the examples you mentioned where broken as hell and needed a change right? They literally had no downsides whatsoever. Don’t assume everything is similar, each change has a reason behind it which is different than others....in this case, the weapon still works and doesn’t need a change. Go post this in fan concepts as a new weapon