Why Do People Need An Opt Out For Stalker Mode?

[(XBOX)WiryPath1560]

Just use the Operator. Stalker is weak to Void damage.

[DatDarkOne]

23 minutes ago, (XB1)WiryPath1560 said:

Just use the Operator. Stalker is weak to Void damage.

This brings up an interesting point that was missed earlier in the balancing part of the discussion.  The Operator and our supped up amps straight up melt the Stalker.  Well at least it does at lower Stalker levels.  I haven't had the chance to try it on a higher level (like 50-100 level) Stalker yet.  

[FreeWilliam]

15 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

This brings up an interesting point that was missed earlier in the balancing part of the discussion.  The Operator and our supped up amps straight up melt the Stalker.  Well at least it does at lower Stalker levels.  I haven't had the chance to try it on a higher level (like 50-100 level) Stalker yet.  

Another reason the mode's a good idea but Stalker specifically really isn't the best choice.  

Maybe more of an 'assassin' mode that had easier to balance options that are troll-unfriendly?

[MystMan]

48 minutes ago, (XB1)WiryPath1560 said:

Just use the Operator. Stalker is weak to Void damage.

From what we've seen, it's regular Stalker, not Shadow Stalker. So Void damage isn't a weakness to him, it's just a basic damage attack.

[DatDarkOne]

42 minutes ago, FreeWilliam said:

Another reason the mode's a good idea but Stalker specifically really isn't the best choice.  

Maybe more of an 'assassin' mode that had easier to balance options that are troll-unfriendly?

A Stalker mode but without the Stalker.   I want you to think about that a bit while I LMAO.  

[Aramil999]

4 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

And this avoids the problem that was mentioned by DE Scott. If it's not forced, then almost everyone would opt-out.  If everyone opted out of it, then the whole mode would just be a waste of Dev resources.  So in essence the mode must be forced in order to not only not waste Dev resources but also so the mode isn't Dead On Arrival.  

I already have al the Stalker cosmetics, gear, and rivens for each Stalker weapon.  What does this mode offer me that I haven't already gotten before this mode for being forced into it?  Nothing, unless you can come up with something worthwhile.  

New cosmetics maybe? You really didn't think about it or you want to troll me? Im patient man but this is impossible that you have not thought about this new cosmetics getting added with new game mode. Alse there could be some mods/weapons/modifications usable only by Stalker that players could farm so PvE players doesn't lose anuthing from PvE standpoint. Stop trolling please.

[Cuchullin]

As has been mentioned before in this thread it all basically comes back to the mode being forced and the inherent bad PvP balancing that is in Warframe. Given DE's tendency to drop content give it bug fixes then moving on to the next project I can see a lot of interest being in the mode for the first few days maybe a week before people get frustrated/ tired with it. I imagine I would be too even though I would be interested in seeing things from the stalkers perspective.

The way I would prefer this mode be introduced and maintained would be through a minor quest say on an abandoned orokin tower/ship which is Stalker + acolytes lair where you have to infiltrate as an acolyte of some sort and have a a combination on mission styles (spy, sabotage etc) where you get the requisite parts and can only use them in this area. The quest would be done in the usual way of solo to get the lore behind stalker with no player controlled stalker would ruin the experience. Any further missions could spawn a player controlled stalker  in those specific node areas with the idea of if the stalker wins that player would get relics or some rewards that could be easily be gotten elsewhere so people don't feel obligated to play this mode. If players defeat the player controlled stalker then they would get stalker gear rewards like if stalker wins.

Unlikely to happen I know and not terribly well thought out but to me it seems better then having forced PvP across the map and if it goes the way of conclave then it won't affect the players who don't like or do those modes and for those who do will be able to access it. I'm also aware of the interview where the intent was for star chart wide access for this mode but I'm not necessarily wildly enthusiastic about that. I mean it's like every node randomly being turned into a nightmare mission mid mission which may be interesting but if your new or leveling a frame your probably going to have a bad time..

For the argument of experienced players and newer players who don't necessarily know better only populating this area this has kinda been one of the drawbacks of DE's method of building access to different areas especially without any training sections besides the starting tutorial. Case and point being the plains of Eidolan and the Eidolan hunts. There isn't even much of a natural transition from mid game game play to late game play that can be earned other then grinding out hours of experimenting with mods, weapons and frames at least from what I can see.

Feel free to tear this to pieces on this all you like but that's just my thoughts on it.

Edited December 6, 2018 by Cuchullin

[FreeWilliam]

35 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

A Stalker mode but without the Stalker.   I want you to think about that a bit while I LMAO.  

You didn't have any ideas I didn't there...but it's been a long time since Stalker was the only 'big bad that can pounce us in a mission' and there aren't any story reasons in the way.

It shouldn't be THAT funny, most of the problems with Stalker have to do with Stalker's stealth kit, not with the concept of players getting in-mission surprise challenges, right?

[EmberStar]

19 minutes ago, FreeWilliam said:

 

It shouldn't be THAT funny, most of the problems with Stalker have to do with Stalker's stealth kit, not with the concept of players getting in-mission surprise challenges, right?

Wrong.  My problem with the system is *entirely* the part where I can be attacked by another player.  The fact that Stalker is built to be a super troll (but the AI is too stupid to do so) is just a bonus reason to hate it.

[DatDarkOne]

42 minutes ago, Aramil999 said:

New cosmetics maybe? You really didn't think about it or you want to troll me? Im patient man but this is impossible that you have not thought about this new cosmetics getting added with new game mode. Alse there could be some mods/weapons/modifications usable only by Stalker that players could farm so PvE players doesn't lose anuthing from PvE standpoint. Stop trolling please.

I'm trolling now? All because I asked you to supply a logical reason why I should like your proposal? Come on dude. This is your suggestion, and the burden of convincing us is on you.  You just haven't been doing a good job of it.  So, I offered you a bone with my question. 

What I have been posting in this topic has all been quite reasonable.  I haven't resorted to name calling or being disrespectful.  What I have done is point out false facts while trying to get you all to look at the larger picture.  Yet, I'm trolling?  This whole thing would be funny if it wasn't so incredibly sad also.  

No worries though.  I kinda expected this type of thing to come about. 

Edited December 6, 2018 by DatDarkOne

[Chaemyerelis]

There are just some people who really really get triggered when being killed by another player even if tue death is completely inconsequential.

[LadyFalcia]

What would I like done with the Stalker? Hmm, well the last few times I saw him I didn't actually see him because two Tigris Primes really make a mess and I didn't catch up in time, only got to see the drop.

Do I want some random person trying to kill me? Not really. I doubt I'd be much fun for them either since I'd just get on with my day rather than getting upset.

What I really want is a story quest, new Stalker lore. Answers! Who and what is he really? What about the Acolytes? Can we help him? Can we kill him? Why does he still hold grudges against us for going against the Orokin, was he a loyalist? Is he Tenno? Is he NOT?!

I have no desire to hurt others by playing the Stalker, or have my game messed with (if I even saw him). But I really, really want my lore fix.

After all, everyone likes lore, it's a fact, you can't deny it. Loads of successful games have lore and story. ;)

[Gabbynaru]

10 minutes ago, Chaemyerelis said:

There are just some people who really really get triggered when being killed by another player even if tue death is completely inconsequential.

There are also just some people who really really get off when killing another player even though their success is completely inconsequential.

[Chaemyerelis]

29 minutes ago, Gabbynaru said:

There are also just some people who really really get off when killing another player even though their success is completely inconsequential.

We actually don't know what success will be if this is implemented.

Clever though.

To be fair though, you definitely aren't wrong.

Edited December 7, 2018 by Chaemyerelis

[Yousho]

16 hours ago, EmberStar said:

If the lack of PVP is a dealbreaker for you, there are *many* other options that might suit your temperment better.  Fortnite, PUBG, DOTA, LOL (and the other alphabet soup of MOBAs) Smite, Overwatch, Hearthstone, The Division, Rainbow Six:  Siege, Without Honor.... er, FOR Honor, Dark Souls, BloodBorne, Honor of Duty:  Headshot Elite (and all the other grey mush of Military Shooters that I don't care about enough to even mock their names properly) and basically every Fighting Game that exists.  (A few apparently have tolerable AI opponents, but if you want Street Fighter, you're probably playing against another person.)  There are HUNDREDS of options for getting your PVP fix.

Warframe does not need forced PVP.  Really, the *only* reason I see for some people to argue that the game "needs" Stalker Mode is because they get a pleasent little fizzing sensation in their pants at the thought of being able to invade someone else's mission and shoot them in the head.  Does *everyone* want that?  No.  But many do.  I have no interest in interacting with those people.  And I won't.  Even if my only option is to find another game.  Nor do I really think that the devs will care if I leave - I'm one player out of 30 million registered accounts.  But the existence of a Stalker Mode in this game would ruin it for me.  If it goes live, and can't be avoided... I'll avoid it anyway, by leaving.

I've never done PvP in this game, and I don't really ever intend to - I don't really like PvP outside of LoL and MtG - I certainly wouldn't want to PvP in Warframe. I'm not a big fan of PvP at all. 
But the thing with the stalker is that it might, at worst, be slight annoying very occasionally, and might, if implemented well, actually make the stalker event more exciting than the current snore-a-thon that it is. 
The whole "Wah, don't force PvP on us!" seems like a colossal overreaction to a trivial aspect of the game over basically nothing.

[(PSN)Zero_029]

6 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Lets see.

They've killed off one PvP mode completely, regular PvP is barely played, Lunaro is played even less and Frame Fighter is used... honestly I dont know how used it is. It has more players than just one, or does it?

So adding opt in Stalker would result in... much of the same nothingness, manhours and resources would likely be better spent at the company toilet.

 

Frame Fighter saw more use then all Conclave & Lunaro combined during its launch. Post launch it was pretty popular. I assume the 1v1 format is what helps keep it healthy.

(Although this was pre-Fortuna. With Fortuna having launched it's probably dead or dying now.)

They should just let Frame Fighter award Conclave standing at this point...

Or update it to be wackier (Smash Brothers-ish perhaps?) or less clunky. It's fun in small bursts.

Edited December 7, 2018 by (PS4)Zero_029

[Dangerbone]

I want Warframe to have a more active PvP community because there's whole game modes, assets, and content I can't fully enjoy due to low population. I play PvE to feel like a minor god and to actually see other players. I want to get into Conclave but the mod tabula rasa and lack of playerbase makes me put it off. It needs to be better, period. The player Stalker mode, if properly balanced, could award Conclave rep to both the invaded player on a successful Stalker kill or the invader on every slain Warframe, giving PvE players a taste of PvP. It could be the game mode to bridge the gap - provided that PvP gets a major overhaul.

I get that you don't like PvP in the same way I hate defection, but try to understand it from someone's point of view who wants to see all the content he can. You don't have to be *such* a downer about a potentially cool game mode.

[EmberStar]

16 minutes ago, Dangerbone said:

I get that you don't like PvP in the same way I hate defection, but try to understand it from someone's point of view who wants to see all the content he can. You don't have to be *such* a downer about a potentially cool game mode.

I do when that "potentially cool" mode can only exist by ruining the game for me.  I'm perfectly fine with ignoring Conclave and Lunaro (and every PVP game I listed before.)  Because I *can* ignore them.  I don't care what happens in Fortnite, because it has nothing to do with me.  I care about this because it can apparently only exist if it infects the *entire* game.  Because, *according to a Dev* if they allow people to opt out, nearly everyone probably will.

[Dangerbone]

Just now, EmberStar said:

I do when that "potentially cool" mode can only exist by ruining the game for me.  I'm perfectly fine with ignoring Conclave and Lunaro (and every PVP game I listed before.)  Because I *can* ignore them.  I don't care what happens in Fortnite, because it has nothing to do with me.  I care about this because it can apparently only exist if it infects the *entire* game.  Because, *according to a Dev* if they allow people to opt out, nearly everyone probably will.

So let me get this straight, if Stalker is controlled by a dumb-dumb AI that can only kill a Tenno that's standing still, you're fine with it? While a Stalker with more restrictions but player controlled is now the worst thing since Austrian statesmen? I don't get it. If it were people's ripS#&$ powerful minmax builds, then yes , that would trash the experience. But this game mode idea is literally just Stalker with a brain. What's wrong with that?

[EmberStar]

1 minute ago, Dangerbone said:

So let me get this straight, if Stalker is controlled by a dumb-dumb AI that can only kill a Tenno that's standing still, you're fine with it? While a Stalker with more restrictions but player controlled is now the worst thing since Austrian statesmen? I don't get it. If it were people's ripS#&$ powerful minmax builds, then yes , that would trash the experience. But this game mode idea is literally just Stalker with a brain. What's wrong with that?

Yes.  I've stated this repeatedly.  The part where another PLAYER is attacking me is what makes it unacceptable.  What is wrong with it is (follow along here):

IT IS PVP.

I've stated this in just about every post I've made to this thread.  If you haven't picked up on this then there isn't much I can say.  (Not without violating forum rules, anyway.)  You either lack reading comprehension skills, or you're deliberately ignoring everything but your own agenda.

[Dangerbone]

8 hours ago, EmberStar said:

Yes.  I've stated this repeatedly.  The part where another PLAYER is attacking me is what makes it unacceptable.  What is wrong with it is (follow along here):

IT IS PVP.

I've stated this in just about every post I've made to this thread.  If you haven't picked up on this then there isn't much I can say.  (Not without violating forum rules, anyway.)  You either lack reading comprehension skills, or you're deliberately ignoring everything but your own agenda.

Without descending into flamewar territory, your reasoning for not wanting more PvP game modes is less than sound. Just because one player - you, for example - loathes PvP in every way, shape, and form doesn't mean that all players loathe it that much. Warframe's development should not cater to the desires of only one group of players. There is more than enough content for the less PvP inclined right now. At worst you'll be inconvenienced by another player once in a while.

[Atsia]

8 hours ago, Dangerbone said:

Without descending into flamewar territory, your reasoning for not wanting more PvP game modes is less than sound. Just because one player - you, for example - loathes PvP in every way, shape, and form doesn't mean that all players loathe it that much. Warframe's development should not cater to the desires of only one group of players. There is more than enough content for the less PvP inclined right now. At worst you'll be inconvenienced by another player once in a while.

Well it's more than one player, it's an overwhelming 98.3% last we saw, and likely hasn't grown any higher since then (at best I'd assume 2-2.5%, which is still abysmal). As was said, it's the exact reason Scott said that they'd have to launch it without on opt-out/in, because they know likely no matter what they do, it would likely be DoA to a good 50-75% at least, more likely 95% like Scott said, and a waste of resources. Stalker players would either run into noobs and trash them, or a full squad that completely hoses them and they sit back down the moment they get up.

[(XBOX)VaricBreem]

The biggest Issue I see with  this  is  not the  game mode  its self , But the resulting salt and tears  the PVPtards  who want to invade my  game will be  spouting on forums  after I curb stomp them into the  ground with my PVE speced weapons, Resulting in ovious  nerfs  aimed  at PVE  setups  ecause  PVPtards  cant  join my game  and "LoL Noob GIt Gud" me  in   a message.  I mean seriously they  join My game with Stalkers Load Out and  expect My umbral Inaroas   Running around  with Staticor/some other weapon of mass destruction , Not to one shot them? They are all Like  YUS Muh PVP Forced on  Others,   but when push comes to shove they will be the first ones  screamin for Nerfs, in a  PVEcentric setting

[Dangerbone]

9 minutes ago, Atsia said:

Well it's more than one player, it's an overwhelming 98.3% last we saw, and likely hasn't grown any higher since then (at best I'd assume 2-2.5%, which is still abysmal). As was said, it's the exact reason Scott said that they'd have to launch it without on opt-out/in, because they know likely no matter what they do, it would likely be DoA to a good 50-75% at least, more likely 95% like Scott said, and a waste of resources. Stalker players would either run into noobs and trash them, or a full squad that completely hoses them and they sit back down the moment they get up.

Now those are statistics I can get behind, even if they're not the ones that support my argument. It's a justafiable refutation of my stance that asymmetric PvP gameplay could revitilize the neglected attic child that Warframe's PvP.

10 minutes ago, (XB1)VaricBreem said:

The biggest Issue I see with  this  is  not the  game mode  its self , But the resulting salt and tears  the PVPtards  who want to invade my  game will be  spouting on forums  after I curb stomp them into the  ground with my PVE speced weapons, Resulting in ovious  nerfs  aimed  at PVE  setups  ecause  PVPtards  cant  join my game  and "LoL Noob GIt Gud" me  in   a message.  I mean seriously they  join My game with Stalkers Load Out and  expect My umbral Inaroas   Running around  with Staticor/some other weapon of mass destruction , Not to one shot them? They are all Like  YUS Muh PVP Forced on  Others,   but when push comes to shove they will be the first ones  screamin for Nerfs, in a  PVEcentric setting

If I get nuked by someone in PvE gear while invading as Stalker (should the game mode ever see the light of day) then it isn't really anyone's fault but my own. That said, yes, a lot of PvP players could probably be expected to act that way.

[(XBOX)VaricBreem]

4 minutes ago, Dangerbone said:

 That said, yes, a lot of PvP players could probably be expected to act that way.

And thats why they dont belong here