Why Do People Need An Opt Out For Stalker Mode?

[BornWithTeeth]

@rand0mname

 

Best suggestion I’ve seen so far, really.

[Aramil999]

2 hours ago, Datam4ss said:

Is this a continuation of the other thread because you were pissed with the Naysayers, OP?

Because it looks like it.

Read the title.

This thread is for people that can understand that we are talking about optional PvP+PvE Stalker Mode. 

So 95% of all this copy paste comments from last thread (about it being bad couse you can't opt out) is not applying here. Because title implys that is SHOULD be opt in/out.

No, single user using no-arguments can not "piss me". Sorry to dissapoint you.

@rand0mname GREAT idea! I love it!

 

[(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz]

As expected, this thread has derailed into a PvP mud slinging contest.

At the risk of sounding logical, I'll state the obvious: IF player controlled stalkers ever make it through (doubtful), then we will very soon after be hit with a massive influx of threads about lack of population in that mode.

Regardless of what either side argues, history speaks for itself.  Any form of PvP in WF is just not going to work.  

The proof is already in game and the forums.  Conclave is a bigger ghost town than a Fallout 76 appreciation party.  Imo players come to Warframe to relax and melt their way through countless hordes of enemies with overpowered gear in a play as you please environment.

I hate to say it, but those hoping to get people to have some others participating in any form of PvP are going to be sorely disappointed.  I enjoy PvP games as much as the next person, but this game has clearly (imo for the better) done away with that.

This community is one of the best I've been apart of in a very long time.  There is a reason for that.  Now think of your favorite PvP game and the state of it's community.  There's a lesson there.

 

Edited December 7, 2018 by (XB1)Thy Divinity

[Eisdschungel]

How about a Deal? You attack Another Player as Player stalker, you get a Mail from ??? Prime and receive a Death Mark.  This Mark is Consumer upon being Invaders by Another Player, win or loose.  Upon launch, make a 24 - 48h Purge were anyone higher Mr 15 can be attacked to allow People to get their First Marks. So People interested in Mode can Keep it running

Edit: this would allow People to opt out by not attacking and id personally would be able to get over 48h without being salty/toxic about it

Edit 2: Still wouldnt solve the Balance issues though

Edited December 7, 2018 by Eisdschungel

[Aramil999]

OP here. For people who want to disscuss optional Stalker Mode I made separate thread (this one is pointless as most comments demand it not being forced). 

How to deal with toxic players, how to balance mode, how to blend PvE aspect with PvP etc. 

There is already great idea with creating Event where players could invade and then give DE feedback.

In my opinion, adding new fully blown PvE location (planet/stalker hideout) where players can invade and play normaly (do PvE) is good idea because PvE only players could simply not play in this location.

Edited December 7, 2018 by Aramil999

[(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz]

19 minutes ago, Eisdschungel said:

How about a Deal? You attack Another Player as Player stalker, you get a Mail from ??? Prime and receive a Death Mark.  This Mark is Consumer upon being Invaders by Another Player, win or loose.  Upon launch, make a 24 - 48h Purge were anyone higher Mr 15 can be attacked to allow People to get their First Marks. So People interested in Mode can Keep it running

Edit: this would allow People to opt out by not attacking and id personally would be able to get over 48h without being salty/toxic about it

Edit 2: Still wouldnt solve the Balance issues though

This deal is one sided.  It basically states that the player controlled stalker is already in game, thus removing even having an option.

Nice try, though

[Eisdschungel]

While @rand0mnames idea is Great, its Way to big for an Event. But Hey, wont complaint if Stalker mode comes with an quest

For the opt out, ill repost stv. I wrote in the other Post. How would you fell if opt in would be by playing Stalker mode as attacker, achieveing a mark like we do when Killing a boss?

[Aramil999]

3 minutes ago, Eisdschungel said:

While @rand0mnames idea is Great, its Way to big for an Event. But Hey, wont complaint if Stalker mode comes with an quest

For the opt out, ill repost stv. I wrote in the other Post. How would you fell if opt in would be by playing Stalker mode as attacker, achieveing a mark like we do when Killing a boss?

Yes this idea is very good one, but new players would need way to earn first mark. Btw. next hidden game mode will be played by small minority it has to be part of the core game designe otherwise it will be forggoten like Lunaro

Edited December 7, 2018 by Aramil999

[Eisdschungel]

vor 3 Minuten schrieb (XB1)Thy Divinity:

This deal is one sided.  It basically states that the player controlled stalker is already in game, thus removing even having an option.

Nice try, though

Might be me having a Language Barrier Effect, but how would you not playing as stalker to not be attacked be the removal of an Option?

[Eisdschungel]

Gerade eben schrieb Aramil999:

Yes this idea is very hood one, but new players would need way to earn first mark.

Ah right, my Purge idea doesnt Cover that One. I Think (Not sure) they Wanted to have a Syndicate for Stalker mode, that could sell Marks on the lowest ranks 

[(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz]

6 minutes ago, Eisdschungel said:

Might be me having a Language Barrier Effect, but how would you not playing as stalker to not be attacked be the removal of an Option?

Because the attacking (or attacked) player had no choice about said interaction.  If there was an option to not participate in player stalkers, then the system you propose would be moot.

[Aramil999]

5 minutes ago, (XB1)Thy Divinity said:

This deal is one sided.  It basically states that the player controlled stalker is already in game, thus removing even having an option.

Nice try, though

You didn't understand.

You will get first free "mark".

If you have "mark" you can invade any other player who has "beacon".

After you invade you get new "beacon". So you can not invade (you consumed your mark to make 1 invasion) but still can be invaded beacuse you got "beacon" After you get invaded you will lose beacon and will get "mark". You can not be invaded now but you can invade players with beacon. 

😉 so you can just stop at any point (and you will not get invaded any more) and player who will not consume their first "mark" to invade will never be invaded by others (since they will not earn "beacon" from invading others). 

Only problem is what happens when player stalker invades your teammate because he likes to play as Stalker so he has "beacon"... well if someone wants pure PvE then he would have to choose pure PvE players to his team too 😉

[(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz]

5 minutes ago, Aramil999 said:

You didn't understand.

You will get first free "mark".

If you have "mark" you can invade any other player who has "beacon".

After you invade you get new "beacon". So you can not invade (you consumed your mark to make 1 invasion) but still can be invaded beacuse you got "beacon" After you get invaded you will lose beacon and will get "mark". You can not be invaded now but you can invade players with beacon. 

😉 so you can just stop at any point (and you will not get invaded any more) and player who will not consume their first "mark" to invade will never be invaded by others (since they will not earn "beacon" from invading others). 

Only problem is what happens when player stalker invades your teammate because he likes to play as Stalker so he has "beacon"... well if someone wants pure PvE then he would have to choose pure PvE players to his team too 😉

If that is the case, then we are right back to population issues, as many would not wish to participate.  Also, what about newer players?  That would be a nightmare.

[Thaelyn2]

3 hours ago, BornWithTeeth said:

but they would not be making it opt in/out because if they made it optional, no-one would opt in and it would just be a dead mode.

Which should be all they need to know. If they know ahead of time that there’s not enough interest to keep it alive on a voluntary basis, why shove it down the throats of an unwelcoming audience?  Sounds like a great way to alienate your player base to me. 

 

I know now if it is added and is non consensual I will abort mission the instant I see lights flicker each and every time until it’s removed or made opt in. 

[Aikatears]

Sigh I had something typed but after thinking about it, those that want this mode so badly for pvp would need to convinces DE that those ideas are long lasting not dead on arrival and will have the population to keep it going without it being force opt in to do it. Sure it will have a boom of people testing the waters but it has to be long lasting with a population if you can show that. Just saying it being there will being in new players and old...anything new will do that, it needs to keep it going. am not seeing that from any of those ideas.

but keep it going maybe something will happen 

[SneakyErvin]

4 hours ago, rand0mname said:

What about doing it the old way - via event? A lot of game modes were introduced like that.

What if Tenno will found out via VOID MAGIC, mundane Chepalon spy-network, Palatino tarot reading, Perrin noticing something wrong in the resent shipment movement, Wally taunting or Alad V phone-call that Stalker is planning something big?

- Attack on a Relay or Dojo.

- Stalker got his grubby hands on Transference tech and is trying to recruit our frames to make more Akolytes.

- Wants to wake up Flydolon by Hunhow orders.

- Or we could run into Stalker then we will finally start looking for Space Mom by breaking into her Dad's house.

There is a lot of possibilities.

So, Tenno run various missions to gather information. After the first mission, our Operator has their VOID MAGIC misfiring and ends up in a Stalker head, thinks that they are Stalker (same way they think that they killed Issah) and attack their fellow Tenno. Or they try to stay in Stalker head as long as possible to do a little bit of mind-reading and go with the flow. Or they can try to help. Depending on the choice, we spawn as a friend (3 minutes, weakened) or an enemy (5 minutes, full arsenal and powers).

After that, we continue event, but now we can be invaded or invade. Maybe set a limit on how much you can be invaded or invade.

We provide feedback and data to DE, they tweak and balance Stalker mode. Thats the important part. Too many game features were forgotten. If they will have time and manpower to do it, Stalker mode can become popular enough for opt-out button not hurting player numbers.

Opt-out – what about cooldown? You can opt-out or opt-in once a week. Sorta like Darvo or Maroo mission.

Something has to be done about griefing - Stalker mode becoming as poisonous as Dark Sectors were would be a shame tbh.

Edit: aaaaand it was moved to feedback forums. Lovely.

Good idea except for the part that it is tied to the main story, which many many many people wouldnt like to have in a PvP intended mode or in a time limited event for that matter. I dont even think DE would like the idea to cut off parts of the fanbase from the story. And the option to opt-in and out would make it very rarely visited by the majority of the players, also something DE doesnt seem so keen on anymore seeing as how both Dark Sector PvP and raids were removed due to low attendance leading to no real justification to spend resources on fixing those modes.

[(PSN)AppleAssassin1]

I don’t think stalker mode will really be an issue for “meh pve don’t hurt me.” Have the same marked system as now and maybe change requirements to having to be level 30 frames and at least 1 level 30 weapon to spawn. This gives an opt in/opt out system partially. People die in missions all the time. I would personally make the stalker’s abilities interrupt void mode for operators to prevent cheese, but that’s it really. With how fast and powerful we are it really shouldn’t be an issue for people to attack or defend against the stalker. In fact I’m more concerned that the stalker will be underpowered and not stand a chance against most players.

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

Forcing it on PVE players is bad idea...there's a reason why they are here and not playing fortnite...or Destiny PVP and all the other games out there...But hey go ahead and troll the wrong PVE player who swats someone in real life out of spite..I'm sure the PR disaster from that will be well worth this...

Edited December 7, 2018 by (PS4)FriendSharkey

[BrazilianJoe]

I think the introduction of Stalker mode should be allowing it without restrictions, with a strong caveat saying that it's not necessarily final, and DE want the players to test how the system feels.

If and only if the feedback after the initial release is that it is detrimental to gameplay, My initial suggestion is to enforce the global/friends only/invite only/solo as a restriction to which games players can join in Stalker mode.

I don't think as of right now that anything else is needed, provided the gameplay is balanced. 

[(XBOX)VaricBreem]

like i said i dont mind curb stompin the pvptards when they join my game un asked for uninvited , they will get what they deserve a   dirt nap courtesy of my fully formad weapan and  frames I  put  tons of resources/time into my issue is what happens after that

1 they start complaining that they get one shot 

2 they start screaming its not fair (irony)

3 devs implement nerfs in the PVE areas of the game so these trolls can feel relevant...

4 the PVE crowd gets alienated because their power fantasy is ruined because of a game mode they did not want nor ask for was forced on them ,, which led  to a pug stomp resulting in nerfs across the  board in PVE as a result of PVPtards

5 Game  hemorages  players because they no longer feel powerfull in the pve  sections because the game is now   "balanced" for the  annoyance..   I mean Invaders...

[-EGT-Helix-]

I have not read 19 pages. 
But I dont think the devs are so stupid and give the players a game mode that they do not want. 
The devs can see exactly how the current PvP is used and from these numbers one can draw conclusions. 
So I think they can do that. 
Otherwise, here's a second case of "Immortal" if you understand what I mean :)

[Sziklamester]

4 minutes ago, -----Helix----- said:

I have not read 19 pages. 
But I dont think the devs are so stupid and give the players a game mode that they do not want. 
The devs can see exactly how the current PvP is used and from these numbers one can draw conclusions. 
So I think they can do that. 
Otherwise, here's a second case of "Immortal" if you understand what I mean :)

Yep. Diablo Immortal.

[(PSN)robi191291]

Simple give good rewards. Kuva, relics, weapons.... and make funny. 

 

 

 

[EmberStar]

3 hours ago, Aramil999 said:

😉

Only problem is what happens when player stalker invades your teammate because he likes to play as Stalker so he has "beacon"... well if someone wants pure PvE then he would have to choose pure PvE players to his team too 😉

And how would that possibly work?  I currently have my matchmaking set to NEVER drop me into a team if there is more than 150ms of ping.  Realistically, this should mean that I almost never join PUG teams (my ISP sucks, and I'm connecting to a server on the far side of the state because reasons.  I have 90ms of ping just by being connected to the Internet.)  What *actually* happens is that the matchmaking happily ignores that setting and drops me into games where I've gotten as much as 900ms of ping.

The Beacon system also relies on at least a couple of days of free-for-all PVP to get the "beacons" distributed.  So people who don't like PVP are annoyed for a few days of random attacks to set the system up.  And after that point, people who *do* want PVP are locked out unless they can manage to be randomly attacked.

[rand0mname]

13 часов назад, SneakyErvin сказал:

Good idea except for the part that it is tied to the main story, which many many many people wouldnt like to have in a PvP intended mode or in a time limited event for that matter. I dont even think DE would like the idea to cut off parts of the fanbase from the story.

Oh, you are correct. I got carried away with a search for a Space Mom. It can be something unconnected to the main story at all, anyone should be able to participate in it (it may be wise to keep human controlled Stalkers away from new players). Like Acolytes or Pacifism Defect. There are so many options. Like this one:

19 часов назад, BornWithTeeth сказал:

In terms of lore... I’d be interested in weird Transference shenanigans as a result of a quest trying to find the Stalker, to find out whether the Stalker is/was a Tenno, whether they’re an awakened Warframe, all that jazz. Have the quest result in the player Operator sometimes ‘dreaming into’ the Stalker and taking control when it attacks other Tenno.

Fits the lore, promises more lore and gives an insensitive to PvE players to play the mode at least one time. Opens a path for finding Stalker nodes as @Aramil999 suggested.

Why I want a quest or event? I think, it is important to have a story reason for Tenno to control Stalker and hunt other Tenno. If DE will add Stalker mode without any lore, reason or explanation, I will be disappointed.

13 часов назад, SneakyErvin сказал:

And the option to opt-in and out would make it very rarely visited by the majority of the players, also something DE doesnt seem so keen on anymore seeing as how both Dark Sector PvP and raids were removed due to low attendance leading to no real justification to spend resources on fixing those modes.

In the Tactical Potato video, Scott mentions that 50% of players were helping the team instead of attacking. What if we had a choice of spawning as a hostile or as a friendly?

I can not speak for everyone, but I certainly will run around as an edge-lord just to see what Stalker can do. Penalize me for acting so unstalkerish – less rewards, less power, less HP (3 stucks of Transference static), make me stagger randomly while I control Stalker because of resistance (ok, this one may be too much), less time in control, no Operator mode, add another @Eisdschungel “beacon” to my profile, give me 10 AI Stalker death marks, slap 300% more power on AI next time it attacks. Just do not try to force me to PvP. “Force” is the key word here, I maaaaay consider ambushing my friends who liked last year snowball fights ;).

12 часов назад, (PS4)robi191291 сказал:

Simple give good rewards. Kuva, relics, weapons.... and make funny.

IDK. Celestia Syandana looks lovely and you have to PvP to keep it shiny, but seen it one time only in what... 3 years? Bribery do not work well then it comes to PvP in Warframe. I may grind my teeth and grind the Stalker mode if rewards are that awesome, but sooner or later I will get everything I want and will not touch it again. How often people play Defection for fun?

As for funny part: damping our space kid into the mind of someone who hates them sounds like Wally.

13 часов назад, BrazilianJoe сказал:

I think the introduction of Stalker mode should be allowing it without restrictions, with a strong caveat saying that it's not necessarily final, and DE want the players to test how the system feels.

If and only if the feedback after the initial release is that it is detrimental to gameplay, My initial suggestion is to enforce the global/friends only/invite only/solo as a restriction to which games players can join in Stalker mode.

I don't think as of right now that anything else is needed, provided the gameplay is balanced. 

This is what we will probably get. But there will be humans involved. We can be... unpleasant to fellow players. What are the chances for it to become Dark Sectors 2.0? Then again, I may want new lore and worry too much about things that have not happened yet :).

 

Off-topic: Why this thread have been moved here? We are not offering anything concrete, just brainstorming...

Edited December 8, 2018 by rand0mname