Why Do People Need An Opt Out For Stalker Mode?

[CarrotSalad]

This would probably be an interesting feature for conclave.. I cant imagine it lasting long if its added into the PVE community. We saw cabal online, Watchdogs and Rappelz try this before Cabals attempt was a tragic story of players getting DDos to get an advantage for the rewards. There was a share of players who organised clan/kill trading/hacking for rewards group.

Stalker mode removes all control the developers have on the player experience which never ends well (just look at how trading/marketplace, Solar Rails).

[Aramil999]

3 hours ago, CarrotSalad said:

This would probably be an interesting feature for conclave.. I cant imagine it lasting long if its added into the PVE community. We saw cabal online, Watchdogs and Rappelz try this before Cabals attempt was a tragic story of players getting DDos to get an advantage for the rewards. There was a share of players who organised clan/kill trading/hacking for rewards group.

Stalker mode removes all control the developers have on the player experience which never ends well (just look at how trading/marketplace, Solar Rails).

My way to solve above problems:

-add fully PvE location where players can simply farm items, maybe special Stalker resources

-enable invasions in said location, if players kill stalker they get 100 "stalker standing" if they don't only 50.

-player Stalker spawns there and if killed gets some say 50 "stalker standing or whatever" if he kills target he gets say 150 or 200. Noone will bother with "kill trading" if you don't have to win to earn something. Better jump into next open global mission and earn this 50 for lose than wait for "kill traders" and risk ban. 

-Stalker player shouldn't be able to choose who he is invading btw.

-for "stalker standing" player will be able to buy mods for Stalker, cosmetics, etc. Maybe, just maybe, global invasion beacons which would allow 1 time invasion on whole star chart? Maybe only on players who buy "enable to get invaded" item for stalker standing so PvE only would be safe from such global invasions? 

I think that if players could simply do normal popular missions and farm there, with PvP twist to them and using normal fully PvE build, a lot would enjoy it.

[kgabor]

30 minutes ago, Aramil999 said:

My way to solve above problems:

-add fully PvE location where players can simply farm items, maybe special Stalker resources

-enable invasions in said location, if players kill stalker they get 100 "stalker standing" if they don't only 50.

-player Stalker spawns there and if killed gets some say 50 "stalker standing or whatever" if he kills target he gets say 150 or 200. Noone will bother with "kill trading" if you don't have to win to earn something. Better jump into next open global mission and earn this 50 for lose than wait for "kill traders" and risk ban. 

-Stalker player shouldn't be able to choose who he is invading btw.

-for "stalker standing" player will be able to buy mods for Stalker, cosmetics, etc. Maybe, just maybe, global invasion beacons which would allow 1 time invasion on whole star chart? Maybe only on players who buy "enable to get invaded" item for stalker standing so PvE only would be safe from such global invasions? 

I think that if players could simply do normal popular missions and farm there, with PvP twist to them and using normal fully PvE build, a lot would enjoy it.

I certainly would get killed a lot before i could even cast Sonar with Banshee, but i could stand the frustration as long as i would still get standing and just self revive, so it sounds good to me.

The only question, what would be a good enough reward you could get for standing but not too good so that the pve only playerbase wouldn't feel like they are forced to do this content?

There surely has to be an incentive to get people to at the very least give a try to this mode, something as small as a skin or cosmetic f.ex. like the Celestia syandana (obviously not that as that's a Conclave reward and should remain being that, but something similarly optional), but nothing more, nothing less.

The thing that would make the difference here between played content and a dead mode would be the rewards for most players as shown by other parts of the game.

[Aramil999]

52 minutes ago, kgabor said:

I certainly would get killed a lot before i could even cast Sonar with Banshee, but i could stand the frustration as long as i would still get standing and just self revive, so it sounds good to me.

The only question, what would be a good enough reward you could get for standing but not too good so that the pve only playerbase wouldn't feel like they are forced to do this content?

There surely has to be an incentive to get people to at the very least give a try to this mode, something as small as a skin or cosmetic f.ex. like the Celestia syandana (obviously not that as that's a Conclave reward and should remain being that, but something similarly optional), but nothing more, nothing less.

The thing that would make the difference here between played content and a dead mode would be the rewards for most players as shown by other parts of the game.

Possible rewards that are not "forcing" anyone but are juicy so some players would play it and farm them:

-orbiter stalker themed decorations BLUEPRINTS which to craft you would have to play this mode (like stalker mask to hang on the wall)

-stalker themed armour and syandana maybe weapon skins. Possibly also as blueprints so you would have to farm this stalker location for resources to craft them, maybe even sell them to other players 😉

-mods/items some special gear only usable by stalker that will not make him stronger (like +100% hp mod or something) but maybe give him less mobility but longer ability duration, or change one of his abilities so they affect operators void mode but no longer affect warframes powers etc.

-buyable Forma blueprints? Maybe something more.

-Liset "Stalker"skin or totaly new Landing Craft (whoah  that would be cool!)

-Peculiar (pure cosmetic) mods so your warframe powers look like stalker powers? For example smoke like effects when you go invisible??? Maybe as form of buyable stalker sigil?

-add fissures spawning in said PvE + PvP location so players can open relics AND fight Stalker 😉 that would be popular for sure.

Players would farm the hell out of this mode just for such minor things if rewards were usable also outside this single mode (cosmetics for example, decorations etc.) 

Many things would be bad idea as rewards and would "force" pve players to play PvP. This kind of rewards is unacceptable:

-orokin reactor/catalist (only as very very rare drop from wining vs stalker/target would it be acceptable)

-exclusive weapons

-exclusive PvE (normal) mods, warframes, pets etc. 

 

[kgabor]

2 minutes ago, Aramil999 said:

-orbiter stalker themed decorations BLUEPRINTS which to craft you would have to play this mode (like stalker mask to hang on the wall)

-stalker themed armour and syandana maybe weapon skins. Possibly also as blueprints so you would have to farm this stalker location for resources to craft them, maybe even sell them to other players 😉

...

-Liset "Stalker"skin or totaly new Landing Craft (whoah  that would be cool!)

-Peculiar (pure cosmetic) mods so your warframe powers look like stalker powers? For example smoke like effects when you go invisible??? Maybe as form of buyable stalker sigil?

-add fissures spawning in said PvE + PvP location so players can open relics AND fight Stalker 😉 that would be popular for sure.

Players would farm the hell out of this mode just for such minor things if rewards were usable also outside this single mode (cosmetics for example, decorations etc.) 

Many things would be bad idea as rewards and would "force" pve players to play PvP. This kind of rewards is unacceptable:

-orokin reactor/catalist (only as very very rare drop from wining vs stalker/target would it be acceptable)

-exclusive weapons

-exclusive PvE (normal) mods, warframes, pets etc. 

 

I agree and these rewards sound great.

Landing crafts have their own utility niche use, but no one could argue that a landing craft skin is entirely optional, if the landing craft doesn't have any overpowered utility, imo. that shouldn't be a problem either.

Not sure about the usefulness of minor stat change mods that work like corrupted mods, but if DE is creative with those, they could have some utility, might be interesting.

[SneakyErvin]

18 minutes ago, Aramil999 said:

Possible rewards that are not "forcing" anyone but are juicy so some players would play it and farm them:

-orbiter stalker themed decorations BLUEPRINTS which to craft you would have to play this mode (like stalker mask to hang on the wall)

-stalker themed armour and syandana maybe weapon skins. Possibly also as blueprints so you would have to farm this stalker location for resources to craft them, maybe even sell them to other players 😉

-mods/items some special gear only usable by stalker that will not make him stronger (like +100% hp mod or something) but maybe give him less mobility but longer ability duration, or change one of his abilities so they affect operators void mode but no longer affect warframes powers etc.

-buyable Forma blueprints? Maybe something more.

-Liset "Stalker"skin or totaly new Landing Craft (whoah  that would be cool!)

-Peculiar (pure cosmetic) mods so your warframe powers look like stalker powers? For example smoke like effects when you go invisible??? Maybe as form of buyable stalker sigil?

-add fissures spawning in said PvE + PvP location so players can open relics AND fight Stalker 😉 that would be popular for sure.

Players would farm the hell out of this mode just for such minor things if rewards were usable also outside this single mode (cosmetics for example, decorations etc.) 

Many things would be bad idea as rewards and would "force" pve players to play PvP. This kind of rewards is unacceptable:

-orokin reactor/catalist (only as very very rare drop from wining vs stalker/target would it be acceptable)

-exclusive weapons

-exclusive PvE (normal) mods, warframes, pets etc. 

 

Please do tell me where it wont be a waste of time and resources to make this seperate mode. That seperate and optional mode the DE guy already said wasnt going to be a thing because not enough people would use it. Also, this mode is about simply controlling Stalker as he is. Mods to increase his power would not work, it would simply be a step in the direction of imbalance since those mods would be there vs lower geared players too, where the current Stalker is already balanced based on level of mission and progress in the story.

And when you start adding exclusive weapons etc. to the list you are forcing people into it, since weapons are tied to MR and in order to reach maximum possible MR you need those weapons.

PvE and PvP should be completely seperate and optional without one impacting the other. More so when the PvP part is just an afterthought in a very PvE centric game. The reward from PvP is there at its core, killing the other guy. That is the whole point of PvP, you shouldnt need a carrot to participate if PvP is what you really seek, which it sounds like you arent with that long list of rewards and incentives.

[CarrotSalad]

5 hours ago, Aramil999 said:

-Stalker player shouldn't be able to choose who he is invading btw. 

Theres no worries if they cant choose when they get the invite and keep it a spontaneous and extremely rare occurance. (once a month if we're talking about this being put into PVE starchart).

Best for everyone is probably to have it as a conclave mode designed similar to games like Evolve or identity 5. Those 2 games are able to hold up on thier own without handing out rewards as incentives to everyone involved. Just a basic ranking system, skills unlocked by exp and tools to socialise.

Right now ID5 has issues where

No one wants to play hunters the ratio is something like 20:1 at peak times.

[MdzKnight]

Why anyone would want to be Stalker: to kill players (PvP), and they won't be able to because the chance of finding players willing to challenge them and not quit their missions knowing this system exists is kind of small judging by general forum reacion, they could also end up getting steamrolled by a player using endgame gear.

Why anyone would want to opt-in to Stalker Mode: to farm Stalker easily (PvE), and they won't be able because of the player behind the wheel, they could also get steamrolled by a stalker using endgame gear (unless Stalkers get a locked loadout).

This mode sounds like it was born out of desire to merge different parts of the community together. From how I see it, success of the Stalker mode will likely depend on whether people are having fun with another game mode: Conclave. I won't say Stalker fun = Conclave fun, but you get the idea.

How many people enjoy Conclave? that's pretty much the number of people who will enjoy Stalker mode.

 

[(PSN)corpusbonds]

It’d be interesting, but if it were PVE and the one being stalker downed a Tenno, well.. imagine all the t bagging.

 Anyway, I don’t really care for it and I don’t think it’d do much for the game (but in biased I guess because I hate pvp).

Though, I do like the event type like someone above mentioned. Make it fun for everyone vs just one part of the community.

[BeeWhyOhBee]

as they mentioned in some interview (i think its from tactical p) opting out on stalker attacks might not be an option. because all players will just turn it off and what's the point of adding the function then?

after all, its just the stalker -- only player controlled. No OP weapons, no operators = so it's still basically 1-hit by most mid-to-end-level players

 

[TzXtetriC]

On 2018-12-07 at 8:04 PM, EmberStar said:

And how would that possibly work?  I currently have my matchmaking set to NEVER drop me into a team if there is more than 150ms of ping.  Realistically, this should mean that I almost never join PUG teams (my ISP sucks, and I'm connecting to a server on the far side of the state because reasons.  I have 90ms of ping just by being connected to the Internet.)  What *actually* happens is that the matchmaking happily ignores that setting and drops me into games where I've gotten as much as 900ms of ping.

The Beacon system also relies on at least a couple of days of free-for-all PVP to get the "beacons" distributed.  So people who don't like PVP are annoyed for a few days of random attacks to set the system up.  And after that point, people who *do* want PVP are locked out unless they can manage to be randomly attacked.

Does that even work? Ive changed it to match 100ms and i still join hosts with more than 1000ms. Must be broken

[CarrotSalad]

20 hours ago, MandzPH said:

they could also end up getting steamrolled by a player using endgame gear. 

Thats what i see happen allot in ID5 whenever i play.. You always see 3 scenarios play out.

• 1. Maxed out hunter shows up against a team of low level players, They get steamrolled in less than 30 seconds
• 2. Maxed level Victims get matched against a new or mid tier hunter and the hunter is the one who gets steamrolled.
• 3. A mix of scenarios 1 and 2 with suspicious behaviour from atleast 1 player suggesting youre matched with afk'er's, win traders, rank boosters or laggers

I still think it has the potential to be fun in the same form of Lunaro and Solar Rails. (not for those subscribed to a PVE experience though) You'll see thier attitude towards the game burn the world lol...

 

Edited December 9, 2018 by CarrotSalad

[(PSN)wintersfrozen]

On ‎07‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 5:12 AM, rand0mname said:

... After that, we continue event, but now we can be invaded or invade. Maybe set a limit on how much you can be invaded or invade....

...Opt-out – what about cooldown? You can opt-out or opt-in once a week. Sorta like Darvo or Maroo mission....

...Something has to be done about griefing - Stalker mode becoming as poisonous as Dark Sectors were would be a shame tbh....

I think it might be better do have it set similar to syndicates or arbitrations where you have the option to do it once a day. Perhaps doing both types you have suggested, one to aid others and one to attack each giving their own rewards upon successful completion but failure leads to the mission being removed from replay for the remainder of the day.

Adding an additional timer to how long the stalker has before the mission auto fails may be another way to assist in the curb of potential griefing. Give them say 5 minutes to hunt down and kill the target if they can not do so in that time then they fail. After some play tests if 5 minutes is too long then shorten it if its not enough time then increase it. When a timer is added to the situation people who actually want the rewards will spend far less time trolling others and more time attempting to meet their end goal.

[EmberStar]

On 2018-12-09 at 12:45 AM, TzXtetriC said:

Does that even work? Ive changed it to match 100ms and i still join hosts with more than 1000ms. Must be broken

That was my point.  A basic filter like that doesn't work.  So one with conditions like "don't team me with PVP flagged players" is almost certainly going to ignore it in favor of just smushing together a random team.

[ThumpumGood]

MR Lock Stalker mode. Stalker shows up for MR 25 dude and MR2 dude can neither do nor take damage.

Done.

[TzXtetriC]

Scott stated in a video made by TacticalPotato that there wont be any option to turn off the mode for it. You are fighting the same stalker that invades you but controlled by a player, its a 50/50 for each one. As he said, option to turn off the mode isnt an option because it takes away the effort and work done to bring the mode in game, would be a total fail for them.

Link to video: Minute 12:30 starts the stalker mode talk.Minute 15:00 He says no option to turn it off.

 

[(PSN)Zero_029]

17 minutes ago, TzXtetriC said:

Scott stated in a video made by TacticalPotato that there wont be any option to turn off the mode for it. You are fighting the same stalker that invades you but controlled by a player, its a 50/50 for each one. As he said, option to turn off the mode isnt an option because it takes away the effort and work done to bring the mode in game, would be a total fail for them.

Link to video: Minute 12:30 starts the stalker mode talk.Minute 15:00 He says no option to turn it off.

This is what the bulk of the conversation is over.
On the devstreams DE addressed Scott's statement & said that Stalker mode is still under heavy discussion but they have decided that they will have to give it a toggle/opt-in & out if they choose to add it.
Even though doing so may kill the mode upon release.

They know better than to force PVP. Thus avoiding going full Bungie.

[Aramil999]

13 hours ago, (PS4)wintersfrozen said:

I think it might be better do have it set similar to syndicates or arbitrations where you have the option to do it once a day. Perhaps doing both types you have suggested, one to aid others and one to attack each giving their own rewards upon successful completion but failure leads to the mission being removed from replay for the remainder of the day.

Adding an additional timer to how long the stalker has before the mission auto fails may be another way to assist in the curb of potential griefing. Give them say 5 minutes to hunt down and kill the target if they can not do so in that time then they fail. After some play tests if 5 minutes is too long then shorten it if its not enough time then increase it. When a timer is added to the situation people who actually want the rewards will spend far less time trolling others and more time attempting to meet their end goal.

Yes! Give this man a beer!

I doubt players would grief if it was limited like syndicate missions etc. And even if players did troll then it would be very limited. 

Honestly I feel like it is good idea and bad one at the same time because what if someone logged into Warframe just to invade or be invaded this one day? Then he uses up his one invasions and finds out he invaded some really weak new players he destroys them and he has nothing to do this day...

My proposal is similar but a little different: 

-you can invade once and then you have to join "queue to be invaded"

-once you fight vs player Stalker who invades you you can invade as stalker yourself again once,

So you must:

invade, get invaded, invaded, get invaded

this way there will always be players who would want to get invaded 😉

[NeopetsMaster4432]

An opt-out would definitely be detrimental to the game mode's prosperity.

To make up for it, the mode would need exclusive rewards(mods and cosmetics) to both the Stalker, and people who kill the Stalker. In addition to that, some sort of lengthy cooldown before someone could opt-out of the system after opting in, be it a week or permanent. 

But it's hard to imagine that the mode would be balanced in the first place, seeing as Stalker wrecks noobs but dies instantly against a forma'd weapon.
Would be pretty fun if the Stalker could deal a capped amount of damage to objectives per second, but I guess that would go against the idea of the Stalker hunting down a specific player, and still be victim of the potential balance errors.

I'd much rather it not be tied in to Conclave. It takes like 20 minutes just to find a match in that mode, and it has it's own slew of balance issues already. That would be like trying to create a mode that's on it's deathbed, and preemptively shooting it with an Opticor before implementation just for good measure.

Edited December 11, 2018 by NeopetsMaster4432

[Aramil999]

@NeopetsMaster4432 Yes, it should NOT be part of current Conclave system. It has to be gamemode implemented into normal missions with all things we love in Warframe and it should not restrict any mechanic, ability or gear players have framed.

 On the other hand typical player gets impossibly strong at some point and to balance that Stalker should sipmly have abilities that can counter impossibly powerful damage scaling etc.

Some way to become invincible for very short period of time (to counter burst damage form things like opticor or tigris so skilled player can see he will get shot and die and can turn this for example 2 sec. invincibility every 30 seconds or something) of other Stalker skills like ability dispell should be usable by player stalker. 

Only impossible problem to counter for Stalker is Atlas 1 spam, it is instant ability so it can't be disspelled and it deals lots of damage while Atlas is totaly invincible as long as he has energy... how to even counter that...

[Dabnician]

On 2018-12-07 at 5:49 AM, Aramil999 said:

Consider adding Stalker Mode FOR willing players. What are your suggestions and what issues would such implementation face?

Kill two birds with one stone and add stalker mode for any player that has 18 riven mod slots and drop one of their rivens at random if they 90/90 in their possession.

Most new players haven't been tainted by the whole riven mess. 

[Blackbox24]

 

This Stalker Mode actually good idea for game feature but bad idea for PvP because I can easily kill Stalker with my Operator when he even not doing any action and just spawn to die, unless DE want to rework how we fight Stalker.

• Maybe make it like how we fight Eidolon, damage shield first with your amp so you can damage it health and so on unlocking Stalker new ability each phase.

• You cannot use any warframe abilities just damage it with your weapon.

• When Stalker come, all door locked and can be unlocked when either of you or Stalker "died".

• Still got his Damage Adaptation (for Shadow Stalker).

• High interesting reward whoever won the battle the only motivation to playing this mode.

• Stalker have personal Arsenal with same function as Arsenal in Orbiter.

 

 

[Legion-Shields]

I can’t wait for this feature to come out.

[NeopetsMaster4432]

I think there should be a punishment if someone "conveniently" loses connection if they get invaded a bunch, as they'd just be wasting their own time, and others'.

[NeopetsMaster4432]

There is also the potential issue that players may purposely disconnect their internet or just quit the mission when being invaded by the Stalker.
To prevent this, I think it would be reasonable to make such behavior reportable, because it would be wasting the time of others', as well as themselves.

 And if someone is caught doing it repeatedly, they face some consequences~ Like being forced to party with Frosts and Limbos, or however DE punishes people.