Why Do People Need An Opt Out For Stalker Mode?

[Aramil999]

9 hours ago, Cuchullin said:

I would suggest it would be better to have it work where you do a quest to get some more lore on stalker and the apprentices he has that pop up every once in a while where you track stalker down through his apprentices and traditional big fight at the end. Once the quest is complete have stalker mode tracking mission that pop up like nightmare missions except that for each one you get nav coordinates to the final location to fight stalker like in the lephantis assassinate or mutalist Alad V missions. That would cover the lore side introduction, limit the open invasion by player stalker to one node that is randomized per planet, won't be available to players who haven't completed the quest so limiting the chances of new players getting destroyed and offer a means for players to get stalker gear that doesn't or hasn't dropped yet. Just a thought. 

Great I love it!!! 

[Kinetos]

2 hours ago, Vanille said:

True, but Scott already said opt-out/in would not be something they're interested in because the majority would opt out and the mode would go to waste after the effort, from the 'interview' with Tactical Potato. Not to mention the matchmaking hell it will cause with different opted players. Do you really think DE is willing to go through all that for another PvP mode when their already existing one is dead? Like I'm all for it if it gives players choices, so both types of playerbase can be happy, but yea, what I said above.

If DE wants both sides happy and no opt-in feature they can't get what they want and should save time, money, and effort by canceling the mode.

[Thaelyn2]

15 minutes ago, (PS4)sarahsaurusx2014 said:

PVP scares the feeble

PvP players against allowing PvE players to opt out are too afraid to fight other PvP players.

 

Wow.  I never realized how much fun stupid generalizations that show a lack of capacity for critical thought can actually be.

[FrostedMike]

9 hours ago, AzureTerra said:

About the same if they were fighting a AI Stalker with the added effect of stalker being more erratic and harder to hit since a player controlled one is going to be more unpredictable. 

Which makes my point clear.

This is a hard game mode to balance as new players will struggle hard while it will be just a breeze for veterans. You need to make sure everyone will have fun, and I bet it won't be fun for a new player to have a random player just getting in and kills him, and it won't be fun for the Stalker player to run into a veteran and struggle simply because of the mods.

[(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz]

2 hours ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

Techland’s “Be the Zombie” Mode in Dying Light solves your dilemma.  Make it a game mode/mission mode that you actively select and choose either Stalker or Squad.

If you need lore to back it up then use specialized Stalker Summon Beacons. 

It’s really just this simple if you feel random RL players jumping into a standard game as Stalker divides the community.

This is the best suggestion thus far

[CatboyPrincess]

I really like the idea of a PvPvE Stalker mode. I don't mind if players are allowed to opt out of PvP Stalkers. I'm sure DE will find a way to hammer out griefing (invulnerable objectives, can only deal 10% of objectives HP, invasion timer is limited to 1 minute, etc.). Even if PvPvE Stalker mode was mandatory, I still have faith that DE would hammer out the kinks and make it tolerable.

[Kaotyke]

Honestly, if this thing is ever implemented, we will RARELY see a player as a Stalker.

It will depend on many factors:

Where the Stalker is locally. Which means that he might be online and you wont and vice versa...

How many squads are in your node....

If your name will be visible in that node...

Sure, there can be thousands of Stalkers running around trying to shank people, but...

I just dont see it sticking. Like Lunaro, once the novelty passes... its dead. And those few who actually play the Mode will be asked for a pic in squad chat because of how rare it is to find someone who actually uses it.

[iuki.]

i play wf for pve only so no ty to forced pvp.

[LupisV0lk]

1 hour ago, Thaelyn2 said:

Are people honestly so lacking in imagination that they cannot see a reason to be against this apart from us being "afraid"? That's truly a sad statement about people, if so.

Oh i can very much see the reasons, it's just everyone is acting in ways that don't point to those other reasons.

[Thaelyn2]

Just now, LupisV0lk said:

Oh i can very much see the reasons, it's just everyone is acting in ways that don't point to those other reasons.

I'm genuinely curious about your logic, but not entirely sure I want to dive down that particular rabbit hole.  I, personally, haven't read every single post on the matter, but I have yet to see anything that suggests "fear" is a factor for anyone.

 

If you can point me to any specific posts that suggest that, I'd like to check them out and see for myself.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

2 hours ago, IIDMOII said:

5 years of roflstomping has made people soft. The moment there's going to be a shred of intelligence behind an enemy that doesn't require an asinine rep grind to overcome gimmicks with space teen, it's the end of days.

They should consider allowing us to work for our currently chosen syndicates and take bounties as our dailies. Nvm the stalker.

 

1.  Yes, that is the essence of Warframe.   Community-oriented Power-fantasy PvE with low-pressure gameplay that rewards time and money invested.  You’re going to need to get over that, lol.

2.  Syndicate bounty hunts expanding on the “Be the Stalker” concept is a fantastic idea.

[Aldain]

1 hour ago, Thaelyn2 said:

I'm genuinely curious about your logic, but not entirely sure I want to dive down that particular rabbit hole.  I, personally, haven't read every single post on the matter, but I have yet to see anything that suggests "fear" is a factor for anyone.

 

If you can point me to any specific posts that suggest that, I'd like to check them out and see for myself.

Might as well hang it up trying to convince them, claiming fear is the only reason why people don't want this mode is the last resort argument in this case.

I'm not even against the mode as an opt-in, I won't take part but who knows, maybe some people will and will enjoy it. But the absolute slander of players who want an opt-out just makes this whole now mass stitch of a thread show me that there's no point in arguing with people who just plug their ears and yell COWARD LOSER WIMP at the top of their lungs.

[Thaelyn2]

46 minutes ago, Aldain said:

Might as well hang it up trying to convince them, claiming fear is the only reason why people don't want this mode is the last resort argument in this case.

I'm not even against the mode as an opt-in, I won't take part but who knows, maybe some people will and will enjoy it. But the absolute slander of players who want an opt-out just makes this whole now mass stitch of a thread show me that there's no point in arguing with people who just plug their ears and yell COWARD LOSER WIMP at the top of their lungs.

While I don't necessarily disagree with you, I'm trying to keep an open mind before writing everyone off as unwilling to be objective.

 

As I said earlier in this thread, I'm not against the mode's inclusion either.  I just want to be given the option to not participate in any way.  As long as the PvP devotees can have their fun without impacting my own, I'm all for it.  Alas, my experience in many other games suggests that many fans of PvP can't have fun unless they're doing their best to make sure I'm not (or other players like me who have zero interest in PvP).  I can respect the differences between a PvP fan and a PvE fan.  It's the guys who can't have fun without making sure someone else doesn't that I absolutely cannot respect.  I've been proceeding here with the hope that I wasn't dealing with people I couldn't respect.

Edited December 13, 2018 by Thaelyn2
Hit on one of my own pet peeves. Their =/= they're =/= there.. hate that I made that mistake

[DatDarkOne]

17 minutes ago, Thaelyn2 said:

Alas, my experience in many other games suggests that many fans of PvP can't have fun unless their doing their best to make sure I'm not (or other players like me who have zero interest in PvP).

I've seen this time and time again since the advent of Online gaming.  But after seeing people use the same setups meant to gank another player as fast a possible without any skill or flair, it's gets old after awhile.  I use to love fighting games, but online players started getting on my nerves.  The constant whining about this or that not being fair when they lose.  The last hope I have for quality PvP without any whinny trolls is hopefully Ace Combat 7.  

Have any of you all noticed that each PvP Stalker proponent just happens to hate PvP Conclave by their own words.  You hate a mode designed just for PvP, but want the Stalker mode for PvP in PvE envonment.  This just tells me that what you really want is the satisfaction of ganking another player.  This is the only thing that can truly and logically explain not wanting an opt-in/opt-out option for the mode.  

Edited December 13, 2018 by DatDarkOne

[(PSN)Shelneroth]

11 hours ago, (PS4)Ashagin said:

All I know is I play warframe because it is a pve game and that's it.  I dont like pvp games.  I dont play call of duty nor battlefield.  I play single player games and warframe for coop much like I did with borderlands.  If people insist on invading my pve experience with forced pvp I just hope they enjoy when I abandon the mission as host everytime.  If you want to grieve me I will return the favor in kind.

I'd be intresterd to know what about pvp you dislike and how it is relevant to Stalker Mode? I'm working within the assumption Stalker Mode is identical to current Stalker but player controlled. 

[(PSN)Shelneroth]

8 hours ago, Thaelyn2 said:

I don't see the two sides of this issue ever reaching any sort of agreement, frankly.  Me, personally, I'm not the least bit interested in denying anyone else their fun (within the rules of the game and EULA, that is).  All I ask of those on the opposite side of the issue is that they afford me the same courtesy.  If PvP is how you have fun then I want you to be able to do it.  I have fun with strictly PvE.  I have no objections to you getting your fun so long as your fun doesn't prevent my own.  The only way I see to ensure this, within the context of Stalker Mode, is for the mode to be exclusively opt-in.

 

If DE introduces this mode and makes it opt-in then I have absolutely no issues with it. As I've said in another of these topics, though, if I cannot set an option to explicitly avoid this mode then I will, at the very least, abort mission each and every time I see the lights flicker, whether I have a mark or not (without waiting to see if it's stalker or a faction/syndicate hit squad).  The part that confuses me is why DE would even be giving it any serious consideration if we take what Scott said to Tater at face value.  If they believe that an opt out would make the mode DOA, then how can they think that enough people want it to warrant the implementation?  I honestly cannot wrap my head around that.

 

3 hours ago, iuki. said:

i play wf for pve only so no ty to forced pvp.

As above I'd be intrested to know what you dislike about pvp and how it is relevant to Stalker Mode. I'm working within the assumption Player Stalker is no diferent from AI Stalker.

5 hours ago, Thaelyn2 said:

Actually, he is dead wrong.  Not wanting PvP thrust into our PvE has nothing to do with being accustomed to "roflstomping" content.  It has everything to do with wanting PvE from our PvE game.  That's it.

 

Are people honestly so lacking in imagination that they cannot see a reason to be against this apart from us being "afraid"? That's truly a sad statement about people, if so.

How is Player Stalker noticeably diferent from a improved ai Stalker? Technically Player Stalker is pvp, but in practice it bears no resemblence to a usual pvp mode.

[(PSN)Ashagin]

30 minutes ago, (PS4)Shelneroth said:

I'd be intresterd to know what about pvp you dislike and how it is relevant to Stalker Mode? I'm working within the assumption Stalker Mode is identical to current Stalker but player controlled. 

Well because pve is a game.  It's an AI verses a real person as in me,  with other real people whether I pug or team up pve like.  All the sudden this comfortable thing I'm doing whether it's difficult or not becomes a bit more real in my mind if I all the sudden have to face an unknown real individual.  I might have had a few. I might be tired, just casually playing a few missions with pug groups without commitment like premade groups.  All the sudden "#@$%@" enters game and kills me.  We dont know how they will implement it and they will have to and I mean have to give the stalker a chance or it will be an elitist mode for the few that just hope they face a mr 1-5.  Its all around just a bad idea 

  Maybe troll would be a better word than elitist.

Edited December 13, 2018 by (PS4)Ashagin

[(PSN)Shelneroth]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)Ashagin said:

Well because pve is a game.  It's an AI verses a real person as in me,  with other real people whether I pug or team up pve like.  All the sudden this comfortable thing I'm doing whether it's difficult or not becomes a bit more real in my mind if I all the sudden have to face an unknown real individual.  I might have had a few. I might be tired, just casually playing a few missions with pug groups without commitment like premade groups.  All the sudden "#@$%@" enters game and kills me.  We dont know how they will implement it and they will have to and I mean have to give the stalker a chance or it will be an elitist mode for the few that just hope they face a mr 1-5.  Its all around just a bad idea

Thanks. Could you explain what you mean by a player opponent making it feel more real? Why is it ok for AI Stalker to kill but not ok for Player Stalker to kill you?

[(PSN)Zero_029]

3 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

Maybe you should solo a few lvl 100 Stalkers like I have. Maybe then you might not be roflstomping all over him.  Hmmmm?  Just saying.  😄 

I wish my Stalker would get that high (Forgot what level he was when he last jumped me...). He has NEVER killed me over the course of my entire Warframe playtime.
He came damn close the first time I ever met him but Frost & my trusty Hek got me through that debacle. After that I never dropped my guard again.
 

1 hour ago, Aldain said:

Might as well hang it up trying to convince them, claiming fear is the only reason why people don't want this mode is the last resort argument in this case.

I'm not even against the mode as an opt-in, I won't take part but who knows, maybe some people will and will enjoy it. But the absolute slander of players who want an opt-out just makes this whole now mass stitch of a thread show me that there's no point in arguing with people who just plug their ears and yell COWARD LOSER WIMP at the top of their lungs.

Pretty much. Ironically this happened in Destiny to some extent.

First a minor explanation of the situation:
During Destiny 1 & again in Destiny 2 the Streamers & vocal members of the top 1%-5% of the PVP playerbase got tired of SBMM (For those new to this topic: Skill Based Matchmaking) & they claimed that it made every game "sweaty", that they wanted to be able to log into PVP & I quote: "Relax & Chill". That they want to be able to group with their friends without the game matching their lesser skilled friends against Top 1% like themselves.
They argued that SBMM created games that were plagued with Lag, that it was unhealthy for the game, that noobs & casual players will never learn how to play unless they fight the top 1% & etc.
Anyways, they gained traction used Mob Mentality & eventually Bungie turned SBMM off & let PVP be pure CBMM (Connection Based Matchmaking).
Well in less than a month PVP got sweaty for the Top players because everyone else stopped playing because it was not fun getting "Stomped" every game or seeing that the streamer got (and this is no lie) 65-80 kills in that game.

The community was very vocal during the transition however. Many said they don't want to face players who are god tier because they simply are not on their level & it's hard to gain "experience & skill" when you die seconds after respawning & thus have no clue how you're being killed in the first place.
Many said that the they enjoyed the pace of Crucible as is. That they have fun in the more balanced matches. Many said that Lag was dramatically being embellished. (I NEVER experienced it in my Destiny career).

Eventually the PVP community started calling folks cowards, blueberries, losers, the "p" word, & etc. Saying that they were afraid of "true"/"real" competition.
"Real Men aren't afraid of a challenge." & etc. 

Well after the changes, the masses realized that now Crucible was not fun for them anymore. So Bungie had traded in the fun of the masses for the fun of the few & select.
The result was not good. Crucible never really was the same after that. Of course D2 came out a few months after that so...I have no idea what its like now in D1.
I know in D2 folks aren't happy with it being CBMM for Quickplay. (This would be remedied if Bungie would just make Competitive have the same modes as Quickplay...but Bungie has the IQ of a wet soggy turd so...)
The streamers & top % were having a blast because every new player, casual, and even veterans were on farm. They were untouchable, & sadly Bungie never reverted the changes. The fun factor for PVP was sucked out because what folks came to play PVP for was gone, what they expected from the mode was gone.
The experience of a competitive match was now removed. There was no competition simply one sided matches, either your team was stomped or your team did the stomping.

I'm mentioning this because the arguments getting made now are forgetting that people are speaking out for an Opt-Out because the mode is intrusive & it effects their experience. What is fun for a minority is not fun for the masses.

Let's take the: I want to log into Crucible and just be able to "Sit Back & Chill" statement.
Sit Back & Chill for those Streamers/1% players is absolute HELL for everyone else.
IE: While they are having fun & having a casual day out picking flowers, everyone else is soaked in sweat, cursing at the top of their lungs, & absolutely miserable.

That is NOT a good exchange/trade off.

Folks saying that being ganked by Stalker isn't a big deal aren't realizing that for some players it is a hellish experience.
As they logged in for a PVE experience, be it a difficult experience or an easy one. Not to randomly be subjected to PVP.

Think of it like this...
No one boots up Fortnite: Battle Royale & asks for Battle Royale mode to get a Co-Op PVE experience added into it.
Instead they boot up Fortnite: Save the World
2 different Modes, 2 different games, 2 different demographs, 2 different playstyles.
If Epic suddenly combined the 2 modes and offered no option to play one or the other there would be rioting in the streets.

For New Players especially (The New Players are who I REALLY am trying to protect here.). Warframe is already EXTREMELY hard to get into & is very quick to show New Players the door due to it's mechanics that do not become tolerable until later in the game.
Just to name them real fast:
Crafting Times, The New MR Weapon Progression (It's more limiting than I thought it was tbh...), altered enemies, altered gameplay mechanics, changed drop tables, the grind all F2P games have, lack of informative tutorials (Ordis' tutorial on Void Relic refinement is funny as hell but it literally is babble to new players. There needs to be a Pop-Up Tutorial after his dialogue that explains things in a 90's Final Fantasy Fashion), lack of information in general, & yes...MODDING in & out itself is a nightmare on new players.
Now...add a player controlled Stalker (who obviously would be a Veteran player) to that list.
So now the New Players feel PUNISHED for playing the game (IE: Farming/Killing Bosses for loot.) and progressing.
That is NOT a good thing for the overall health of the game & for player retainment.

Yes, us vets are "hurting" for "endgame" but ganking isn't it.

[Obviousclone]

As a vet I kinda see this game mode as being kinda dead on arrival content.

 

Right now, I struggle more with killing kuva siphon kuva guardians than stalker. Usually when shadow stalker does spawn, I just stand in his face, as the squishiest of frames, banshee and melee him down with level 0 gear. and I win those fights. When I do that to a kuva guardian I still win, but it takes noticeably longer, and I typically take more damage doing so.

 

I think if anything, it's going to be a miracle if people actually get kills in stalker mode on unsuspecting tenno.

A lot of the fear surrounding the mode seems to be that player controlled stalker will be capable of killing you. Maybe if you recently built frost after farming exta, ceres and you're clearing jupiter nodes on your unleveled frost, sure. But for most well equipped players, this isn't going to be a threat. In the past 2 years, I've lost more to hyekka masters than to stalker. I'm of the belief that no one is going to play as stalker since it's basically going to be a "die to another player simulator" the majority of the time due to statistical differences. Especially because in squads, stalker dying is a guarantee.

[(PSN)Ashagin]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Shelneroth said:

Thanks. Could you explain what you mean by a player opponent making it feel more real? Why is it ok for AI Stalker to kill but not ok for Player Stalker to kill you?

   Wow that's deep.  Considering if I didn't want to get killed by an AI character than I would have to quit playing most games all together.  Which is all the stalker is atm.  AI.  Pvp is a different game altogether and I just dont enjoy it.  If you want a better explanation than that then maybe refer to one of those psychiatrist books you probably have sitting on a shelf and maybe you can find the answer ther.  

[(PSN)Shelneroth]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Zero_029 said:

I'm mentioning this because the arguments getting made now are forgetting that people are speaking out for an Opt-Out because the mode is intrusive & it effects their experience. What is fun for a minority is not fun for the masses.

Folks saying that being ganked by Stalker isn't a big deal aren't realizing that for some players it is a hellish experience.
As they logged in for a PVE experience, be it a difficult experience or an easy one. Not to randomly be subjected to PVP.

Now...add a player controlled Stalker (who obviously would be a Veteran player) to that list.
So now the New Players feel PUNISHED for playing the game (IE: Farming/Killing Bosses for loot.) and progressing.
That is NOT a good thing for the overall health of the game & for player retainment.

I don't understand how a Player Stalker is a bad experince that must be possible to avoid while AI Stalker is a good / ok experince that is acceptable to have to encounter. The consequences for both are identical. The only meaningful diferences I can see are that one might be harder to beat. There is also the possibility of trolling but I belive this to be so limited as to be not worth considering.

29 minutes ago, (PS4)Ashagin said:

   Wow that's deep.  Considering if I didn't want to get killed by an AI character than I would have to quit playing most games all together.  Which is all the stalker is atm.  AI.  Pvp is a different game altogether and I just dont enjoy it.  If you want a better explanation than that then maybe refer to one of those psychiatrist books you probably have sitting on a shelf and maybe you can find the answer ther.  

You seem to be saying fighting a Player Stalker would be diferent (and worse) then fighting an AI Stalker but have no reason or understanding of how it would be diferent. This doesn't seem a very good bases for deciding how to create a game mode.

[LascarCapable]

Considering how much this thread has turned into unconstructive comments piled over even more unconstructive comments (belittled PvE users, assaulted PvP users), I'm taking it down. You guy are running in circles since the very first page. Would you consider not "devouring" each other alive over a PvP feature that will obviously be heavily monitored ?

Closing.