Why Do People Need An Opt Out For Stalker Mode?

[DatDarkOne]

55 minutes ago, vvhorus said:

1. On spy missions, the Stalker would need to have the ability to hack panels to access console rooms to trigger alarms, which I doubt he would.

That's not quite true my friend.  There are a few spy missions where you don't have to hack a console to enter.  Most of those being Corpus, and the others being Grineer with the Scanner drones.  Those alarms are triggered just be being detected.  Which the Stalker would most definitely and has triggered previously.  

The Capture mission one would be annoying because of the Stalker area lockdown that would allow the Capture Target to get away.  

[vvhorus]

7 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

That's not quite true my friend.  There are a few spy missions where you don't have to hack a console to enter.  Most of those being Corpus, and the others being Grineer with the Scanner drones.  Those alarms are triggered just be being detected.  Which the Stalker would most definitely and has triggered previously.  

The Capture mission one would be annoying because of the Stalker area lockdown that would allow the Capture Target to get away.  

I will concede that the capture scenario could be potentially problematic.

However, my second point still stands. Deal with the Stalker quickly and it will become a non-issue. There are many ways to immobilize him on the spot while the whole squad just goes to town on him.

Mind you, I'm totally opposed to forcing PvP upon players in a PvE setting, but I think having a non-AI Stalker pop up from time to time would do no harm, especially knowing how OP we all are...

Maybe a player-controlled Stalker should have a 1-minute timer to avoid trolling?

[DatDarkOne]

5 minutes ago, vvhorus said:

However, my second point still stands. Deal with the Stalker quickly and it will become a non-issue. There are many ways to immobilize him on the spot while the whole squad just goes to town on him.

That's only possible assuming that you are either facing a A.I. Stalker or a player that isn't good at parkour/tactics.  As soon as you come across a player not like that, dealing with them quickly isn't an option.  Trust me that if I was controlling Stalker you would NOT like me at all or find it fun.  Well, unless you really like conclave.  😄 

 

Edited December 4, 2018 by DatDarkOne

[vvhorus]

3 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

That's only possible assuming that you are either facing a A.I. Stalker or a player that isn't good at parkour/tactics.  As soon as you come across a player like that, dealing with them quickly isn't an option.  Trust me that if I was controlling Stalker you would NOT like me at all or find it fun.  Well, unless you really like conclave.  😄 

 

I've seen a few dev streams where Rebb and Megan have done the Stalker prank and it doesn't seem that hard to kill. Even though you would be controlling him, you are still bound by his base unmodded stats and abilities (unless DE makes it possible for you to mod him)...

[Otaku_Hyen]

I don't have problems with the pvp and pve ascpects because I play mount and blade too and that game is both have a single player campaing and a well decent pvp multiplayers system. The only difference is the mount and blade have servers, players can rent cheaply smaller servers and there are less problems with it. Most of the pings there is fine or just slightly higher.

Warframe is a peer to peer game which itself kills the option to have a good pvp, secondly the mods balanced around the pve part and while they can just make pvp only mods or make mods which work in both game modes, they still need figure out how the weapons work in pvp. The problem with stalker mode which was a long time dream and many players would like to play it is, the game balance and fun highly depends on the internet connections and on how balanced gears the stalker or the players can have. Players have mostly gears whom can beat any form of stalker within seconds and if the stalker laggy or just placed in a bad spot then it is guaranteed it will die in no time.

The only thing what can happen is the stalker will attack lower level players whom has no proper gear but then that is unfair to the players.

 

I am not against any form of pvp in a pve game because I like to do both, but this game strongly oriented to the pve part and the pvp is a sidekick which kicked all the time but stay in a forgotten state.

There are games which does both good but for this DE needs to invest a lot of money to rent servers then we can do that part more freely but still they need to balance the game. Most of the games which does the pvp better are at least have server park what DE does not own if I am right.

[DatDarkOne]

3 minutes ago, vvhorus said:

I've seen a few dev streams where Rebb and Megan have done the Stalker prank and it doesn't seem that hard to kill. Even though you would be controlling him, you are still bound by his base unmodded stats and abilities (unless DE makes it possible for you to mod him)...

In that same stream you might have missed where they also stated that the Dread the Stalker is using is most definitely a one-shot kill weapon.  Then there is also the Stalker's level to consider.  I've face off against a lvl 100 Stalker a couple of times.  He's not something that you will kill quickly at all.  I was using Ivara with Cloak Arrow (which he can't dispel) and a 200% power strength Artemis Bow to give reference just how hard I was hitting him. 

[SneakyErvin]

23 minutes ago, vvhorus said:

I will concede that the capture scenario could be potentially problematic.

However, my second point still stands. Deal with the Stalker quickly and it will become a non-issue. There are many ways to immobilize him on the spot while the whole squad just goes to town on him.

Mind you, I'm totally opposed to forcing PvP upon players in a PvE setting, but I think having a non-AI Stalker pop up from time to time would do no harm, especially knowing how OP we all are...

Maybe a player-controlled Stalker should have a 1-minute timer to avoid trolling?

They wont be able to troll to begin with, Stalker already has a timer when it comes to checking if he spawns or not. Most groups, unless really bad and slow will be on their way to extraxction in capture/spy missions long before he has a chance to even spawn.

Assassination missions will never be an issue since he cant spawn in those anyway.

And for other missions like Survival he only locks down the nearest doors, which are also open for hacking. So a PC Stalker cant really troll anything because he either needs to face the one hacking the console or have the group go on about their business as he pancies around. And there is always the option of a Cipher (unless in a sortie).

[o0Despair0o]

The idea itself, allowing people to join others uninvited, murder them to death, and then ollie out like the little s-word they are, is a death sentence already.

Look at Black Desert. Forces people into PvP as soon as they hit a specific level. What is the result? People stop playing. Me included.

Look at PvP in Warframe. It's complete crap in every way and nobody plays it, except for that one guy who thinks games are all about PvP.

 

Now if we start giving people the ability to force PvP onto others, this game will go down the drain at friggin light speed and just die.

[Chappie]

1 hour ago, o0Despair0o said:

The idea itself, allowing people to join others uninvited, murder them to death, and then ollie out like the little s-word they are, is a death sentence already.

Look at Black Desert. Forces people into PvP as soon as they hit a specific level. What is the result? People stop playing. Me included.

Look at PvP in Warframe. It's complete crap in every way and nobody plays it, except for that one guy who thinks games are all about PvP.

 

Now if we start giving people the ability to force PvP onto others, this game will go down the drain at friggin light speed and just die.

Slippery slope and hyperbolic arguments are a poor way to make a point.   I could argue the moment then you give a kid a sucker he will become obese with this logic.

Edited December 4, 2018 by Chappie1975

[(XBOX)Dex Xean]

as long as the stalker cant force fail a mission gets automaticlly forced to leave after he gets his target  I wont really mind. Also Ill just drop a ancient healer specter eveytime a stalker comes to make the stalker have a sh**ty experience lol. its fairly noticeable when stalker comes too so there is are good odds stalker will instant explode.

 

As for new players they can just make it so anyone under or at MR 4 cannot get a human stalker.

[Urlan]

2 minutes ago, (XB1)Dex Xean said:

as long as the stalker cant force fail a mission gets automaticlly forced to leave after he gets his target  I wont really mind. Also Ill just drop a ancient healer specter eveytime a stalker comes to make the stalker have a sh**ty experience lol. its fairly noticeable when stalker comes too so there is are good odds stalker will instant explode.

 

As for new players they can just make it so anyone under or at MR 4 cannot get a human stalker.

I see nothing wrong with that, as long as this Stalker mode would be either an opt in - maybe you insulted the Stalker or Hunhow or something - and then players can attempt to cover for Stalker invading said players. Perhaps lock it to public facing players, perhaps to a certain MR as you suggested; I don't think having said player controlled Stalkers being possibly melted is a bad thing overall, though I do feel that those players will need access to Stalker's larger move-set than ours to have a truly fair fight.

[Shadowh4nd]

9 hours ago, Aramil999 said:

~ Snip

I agree and disagree on several points here, for reasons:

A) Objective being invincible takes some of the fun out of it, whether or not it's helpful or hurtful to damage it, it adds intricacy.

B) Agree

C) I believe a dispel is in order for his abilities

D, E) Agree. This contradicts a later point:

8 hours ago, SilentMobius said:

Forced PvP is not acceptable, period.

I'm sorry to very rarely interrupt your critically mundane grinding to require you to revive a teammate, tenno. This game needs difficulty and variety. Stalker mode seems little more than a prank. I do not understand your vehemence towards it. I could understand if I'm camping your corpse as you walk 10 minutes from the graveyard in Stranglethorn Vale, but that's just absolutely not the case here.

 

8 hours ago, Datam4ss said:

PVP is hardly enjoyable when you have trash internet

No game is enjoyable as a whole with trash internet. You can set your matchmaking preferences down to a livable ping rate within the options. I would hope stalker mode uses the same filter.

Edited December 4, 2018 by Shadowh4nd

[EmberStar]

6 hours ago, Firetempest said:

Plus, ever died to a enemy before? That's all that would happen. If they somehow killed you with normal NPC stats. POOF. They vanish and you revive. It being the end of the world is slightly overreacting.

Personally I don't care how "minor" the inconvenience is.  I despise PVP.  I lack the language skills to convey how deeply and completely I *hate* PVP.  If Stalker Mode is added, it needs to be Opted Out by default.  And by that I mean that if *anyone* in the team is not flagged for Stalker Mode attacks, then the team can not be attacked by a Player Stalker.  And most certainly NOT "any Public Team is a valid target."  I barely join Public teams as is.

My response to getting invaded by a Player Stalker is simple - I'd immediately hit Alt-F4 and go play Ark or something instead.  I *do not* PVP.  Ever.

*Edit* and before some clever wit points out that Ark is PVP - not in Singleplayer Offline mode.  Which is the only way I've ever played it.

Edited December 4, 2018 by EmberStar

[Urlan]

35 minutes ago, EmberStar said:

Personally I don't care how "minor" the inconvenience is.  I despise PVP.  I lack the language skills to convey how deeply and completely I *hate* PVP.  If Stalker Mode is added, it needs to be Opted Out by default.  And by that I mean that if *anyone* in the team is not flagged for Stalker Mode attacks, then the team can not be attacked by a Player Stalker.  And most certainly NOT "any Public Team is a valid target."  I barely join Public teams as is.

My response to getting invaded by a Player Stalker is simple - I'd immediately hit Alt-F4 and go play Ark or something instead.  I *do not* PVP.  Ever.

*Edit* and before some clever wit points out that Ark is PVP - not in Singleplayer Offline mode.  Which is the only way I've ever played it.

I can understand this stance; perhaps it would be best to have such a thing be fully opt-in then with something to act as an incentive for both sides? So it wouldn't affect players who didn't want such annoyances, and would allow it to be a weird conclave or something add-in for those that wanted to do it.

[SilentMobius]

1 hour ago, Shadowh4nd said:

I'm sorry to very rarely interrupt your critically mundane grinding to require you to revive a teammate, tenno. This game needs difficulty and variety. Stalker mode seems little more than a prank. I do not understand your vehemence towards it. I could understand if I'm camping your corpse as you walk 10 minutes from the graveyard in Stranglethorn Vale, but that's just absolutely not the case here.

You won't, as I've said, you'll DC before you complete the zone-in, I'll ensure that, because forced PvP is unacceptable.

"I do not understand your vehemence" in favor of ruining some else's game for your jollies. (But like I said PvP attracts people who are attracted to interpersonal conflict, so the bar for empathy is already set pretty low)

Also If it doesn't matter as much as you say ("It's only a prank Bro"), then it doesn't matter if it never happens. Whatever this game "needs", forced PvP is not it.

If DE try it, I'll write guide for anyone to prevent it happening to them. Hell I bet I could knock up a script in powershell that would kick any new IP connecting to an existing game session, distribute that to anyone who wanted it.

So ultimately forced PvP won't happen. It's choice, or nothing (preferably nothing).

Edited December 4, 2018 by SilentMobius

[Tsukinoki]

13 minutes ago, Urlan said:

I can understand this stance; perhaps it would be best to have such a thing be fully opt-in then with something to act as an incentive for both sides? So it wouldn't affect players who didn't want such annoyances, and would allow it to be a weird conclave or something add-in for those that wanted to do it.

As long as the rewards are 100% cosmetic, or could be farmed elsewhere?  Sure.
If they are game affecting (mods/warframes/weapons) and could only be gotten from PvP stalker?  Hek no.

Having exclusive game affecting rewards won't really encourage people to play it...it'll encourage them to boost it and then ignore it while complaining loudly the entire time and throwing fits and ruining the experience for the people who do want it.
I mean remember the old x-mas conclave event?  100% cosmetic reward...and people were up in arms.  You had groups forming for boosting and otherwise ruining the conclave game-mode until the event was over where if you didn't boost with the rest of them it was pure toxicity and other problems.  Try locking a non-cosmetic reward behind PvP and see what happens....

[Shadowh4nd]

24 minutes ago, SilentMobius said:

Hell I bet I could knock up a script in powershell that would kick any new IP connecting to an existing game session, distribute that to anyone who wanted it.

Which would require more time an effort than simply reviving a teammate if a stalker just-so-happened (already a big if) to walk into your public session.Or you could just set your games to friends only, invite only. I don't know. I don't see how this ruins a game. Do you quit having fun and turn off your computer when the stalker shows up currently?

[Aldain]

I want to say this, in as simple as a fashion as humanly possible and mean as little offense as I am theoretically able to imply.

If you want to invade and troll other people with forced PvP in a video game, go play Dark Souls and leave the mainly co-op games ALONE.

Not every bloody thing needs to have an invasion system, Dark Souls is not the pinnacle of game design. Everyone doesn't play games for PvP and trolling purposes.

[EmberStar]

12 minutes ago, Shadowh4nd said:

Which would require more time an effort than simply reviving a teammate if a stalker just-so-happened (already a big if) to walk into your public session.Or you could just set your games to friends only, invite only. I don't know. I don't see how this ruins a game. Do you quit having fun and turn off your computer when the stalker shows up currently?

Stalker isn't currently another player who chose to play a PVP mode for the sole purpose of trying to kill me.  He's an NPC and like every other NPC is just running a preset script.  Like I said, my response to a player Stalker will be to hit Alt-F4 and play something else.  I.  Do.  Not.  PVP.

[TARINunit9]

11 hours ago, Aramil999 said:

So we know Stalker Mode is coming

Do we really? It hasn't shown its face in three years, I think

[SilentMobius]

37 minutes ago, Shadowh4nd said:

Which would require more time an effort than simply reviving a teammate if a stalker just-so-happened (already a big if) to walk into your public session.

I could knock up a script once and never have to worry again, and as a bonus I could ensure that no else ever has to put up with it when I distribute the script. The fact that it would turn the Stalker mode into a wasteland of frustrating DC for PvP people... is just gravy.

Force PvP on me and I will retaliate.

37 minutes ago, Shadowh4nd said:

Or you could just set your games to friends only, invite only.

Nothing has been said that this would prevent it. DE Scott explicitly said in the interview that in his opinion having any kind of off switch would mean "everyone" would switch it off (Which is true, because forced PvP is unacceptable) So if DE want to cause "everyone" (according to Scott) to switch off public matchmaking, so be it, but I doubt that.

37 minutes ago, Shadowh4nd said:

. I don't see how this ruins a game. Do you quit having fun and turn off your computer when the stalker shows up currently?

Like I said, low bar for empathy. To reiterate: I don't want PvP, any PvP! Forcing PvP onto me is unacceptable. I don't care if the other player is controlling a Stalker Avatar or manifests as a floating Christmas present, if it is a player controlling it, it's PvP and I don't want it.

Likewise I have no problem with a PvE Stalker because it's not PvP

Edited December 4, 2018 by SilentMobius

[Guest]

9 hours ago, Aramil999 said:

To all PvP haters: There is a lot of you in this forum I know. However there are other players too. Respect each other please.

Have no fear.
We do respect you.
There is the conclave.
And when you're done there, we could have a drink.

I don't have to go in there, and still you got what you wanted.
Everybody happy.

Also, about the idea that was thrown around, that this mode would include 'rewards'.. .... ...

What of the people, who aren't into it?
Ain't no way we'll be picking up this stalker mode.
Just to have that gnawing feeling inside, making us feel bad for doing something that's not... 'US'
Forsaking our personality and everything we stand for... just for... exclusive rewards.

Excuse me, I got a telephone call...
*ring* *ring*
Me: 'Oh, hello mister devil... Yes yes, I am no longer myself... My standards that I held high?... uhm... gone?!? Sorry, I couldn't resist the rewards and....'
*face slowly goes bleak*
Me: 'Oh.... OOh, I... see... You got my soul.... No... No way out, you say?... uhm... mmmmaybe we could....!'
*klick*
Me: 'H..hello? Mister dev...il... .... .... he hung up...

So, no rewards it is then?
Royalty only for red-eyed glarers of... "it's all gotta flow"

Edited December 4, 2018 by Guest
Typos, allways dem typos >.<

[Aramil999]

What are the PvE-only standards? That u have to betray?
Is this religion?

I believe even now you can buy some of the Conclave cosmetics for plat, and mods trade with other players.

This statement has low value.

[Tsukinoki]

2 hours ago, Shadowh4nd said:

Or you could just set your games to friends only, invite only.

Except that with how Scott was talking there wouldn't be a way to stop it...after all they don't want 90% of the playerbase to just stop the invasions and ignore them completely...which is what would happen if it was toggle-able.

Which I could see leading to a lot of problems.  Host migrations, bad hosts, slew of other things.
Far too much lag.
And can you imagine the anger at people forcing host-migrations when a player stalker shows up before anything happens just to avoid it?  Because that will happen, which ruins the matches for players that do want PvP stalker, the players who don't, and the players who just don't care.

1 hour ago, Shadowh4nd said:

I don't see how this ruins a game.

Maybe because a large number of players come to this game for a co-op space ninja game and not forced PvP at random times with zero way to prevent it?
I mean honestly, how many people when they first looked at Warframe said "Oh I sure hope that it has mandatory forced PvP with absolutely no way to stop it!"

We didn't come here to play PvP.
We came here for co-op space ninjas.

One of the bigger problems though is that really there is no way to prevent gaining stalker marks.
They are gained from boss fights....just like warframe parts, which many players do need...meaning that the only way for them to hope to avoid invasions is to turn it into a paywall of "Well if you don't want forced PvP just buy every frame as farming for any of them will get you marked for forced PvP!"

2 hours ago, Shadowh4nd said:

Do you quit having fun and turn off your computer when the stalker shows up currently?

No.  Because as it stands the stalker is just a script.  Not someone who gets their jollies off by griefing other players without any way for said players to prevent it.

And good luck stopping the griefing.
Especially with the stalkers skill-set...which would require such a major rework it wouldn't be funny....

[Eisdschungel]

Also in the Interview Scott said, they dont want People to opt out due to everyone opting out in the first day, Killing the mode. I like Stalker mode and would Play it but only when i chose to. At this Time, i own 3 war bps. Stalker is  nothing more than a nuissance i want gone asap 90% of the time which ofc wont happen with real player Stalker due to balance.

Also, if you have so great fears that no1 wants to Play your gamemode, maybe consider Changing it instead of forcing us to Play something you yourself considered us not wanting to Play. Makes me wonder how People would react to Mission objectives randomly Changing to lunaro.