Why Do People Need An Opt Out For Stalker Mode?

[Guest]

9 hours ago, Aramil999 said:

What are the PvE-only standards? That u have to betray?
Is this religion?

Standards that one holds as a human being, not PvE standards (is that even a thing?).
My apologies if you are missing the point.
I know I can be cryptic sometimes.

Sad how plat seems to be the solution for everything in a conversation.
But I digress... mine is a statement with 'low value' after all.
So nevermind, I said nothing.

I've played many other games before coming to warframe.
And in each of those, there was some sort of forced pvp.
Maybe it's PTSD I'm getting, or my head is maybe screwed on tight. (Maybe my head's in my belly, who knows?)
But after having endured two decades of being ganked and trolled,
while your intention is to help others.
Being killed by people who just see you as 'score points'.
And not fighting back..., is not giving them the hint at all..., to have no desire to be at eachothers' throat.

To make a long story short;
I found everything I was looking for in a game, in warframe.
All those big companies, waving with their tripple A titles...
They've fallen from their pedestal a long time ago.
For they respected the bling blings more, than their playerbase.

DE gave me a family, a home.
And now this is going to become a gankfest as well?
Guess there's nothing like a teabagging stalker, to brighten up the day.
Sets the mood just right.
Cheers.

- Eudico :'Humanity... Not the word I would use...

But I think I will leave it at this.
Looks like a fire is only being fueled.
And the point of view comes from only one direction.

So, peace and love.
Oh yeah, sorry...
Being cryptic again.
Uhm...

Wishing you all the best in the world, Sunshine.

[Aramil999]

As we can see guys, there is 2 Stalker Mode haters who will not enjoy it even if it was best game mode design of the century and almost all other people in this thread acctually said something like "if it has/doesn't have X, I would play it".

I will just leave it here for "PvE-only-players".

I think with good design, rewards and haevy RESTRICTIONS this could be one of the selling points of Warframe.

@AegisAmaranth now I get your point, this is probably worst problem of Stalker Mode. My solution would be to lock it ONLY to one high level location or maybe 1 "stalker" node on each planet. That way you would know that there you will get invaded and nowhere else... 

However don't "destroy" mode which is this far in development.

[BornWithTeeth]

50 minutes ago, Aramil999 said:

As we can see guys, there is 2 Stalker Mode haters who will not enjoy it even if it was best game mode design of the century and almost all other people in this thread acctually said something like "if it has/doesn't have X, I would play it".

I will just leave it here for "PvE-only-players".

I think with good design, rewards and haevy RESTRICTIONS this could be one of the selling points of Warframe.

@AegisAmaranth now I get your point, this is probably worst problem of Stalker Mode. My solution would be to lock it ONLY to one high level location or maybe 1 "stalker" node on each planet. That way you would know that there you will get invaded and nowhere else... 

However don't "destroy" mode which is this far in development.

Dude.

 

You are being, at best, a little inaccurate in your description of the general response to the thread, and at worst being outright shady and kinda dishonest in how you’re presenting it. More than just a couple of people have said “Hell no, I have no interest in PvP, this is a terrible idea,” and multiple others have pointed out the deep flaws in the mode as presented and as Scott has discussed it.

 

Further, people do not have to somehow justify their interests and preferences to you. Someone who says “Naw dude, I’m just not interested in forced PvP in a game I play for the PvE experience,” is not cruising for you to deliver snarky comments about how you don’t understand their ‘religion’.

 

Do you get that the way you are presenting does not make it look like you are discussing in good faith?

[Falconer777]

11 часов назад, Tsukinoki сказал:

We didn't come here to play PvP.
We came here for co-op space ninjas.

Who is "we"? 🙂 Please speak for yourself. Some people in my clan love the Conclave very much.                                                Personally, I came to Warframe including for PvP. I knew that PvP is in this game, and it also interested me.
Another thing is that I don't like the Conclave.
PvP in Destiny 2 or Guild Wars 2 suits me much more.
But I will only be “in favor” if a new interesting playable PvP mode appears in the Warframe. 
Because it is interesting, because it is an endless endgame.
Endgame, which is simply not in Warframe.

As for the actual topic of discussion.
Stalker mode is an interesting idea in my opinion.

Edited December 5, 2018 by Falconer777

[Tsukinoki]

1 hour ago, Falconer777 said:

Who is "we"? 🙂 Please speak for yourself. Some people in my clan love the Conclave very much.

How about you, I don't know, actually read what I said and how I clarified "we" earlier in my statement with:

12 hours ago, Tsukinoki said:

Maybe because a large number of players come to this game for a co-op space ninja game and not forced PvP at random times with zero way to prevent it?

I pretty well clarified who "we" (the "large number of players who come to this game for a co-op space ninja game and not forced PvP at random times with zero way to prevent it) was before I said that word.
I wasn't attempting to speak for everyone...but I mean that would actually take effort to read my post and my argument instead of just taking a random snippet to attack....

I know some people love conclave.
I also know that a lot of people hate conclave and want nothing to do with it.
And this idea is essentially forcing conclave on everyone with no way to avoid it...and a rather large part of the player base wouldn't like that in the least bit.

Edited December 5, 2018 by Tsukinoki

[Guest]

1 hour ago, BornWithTeeth said:

Do you get that the way you are presenting does not make it look like you are discussing in good faith?

You realize he wasn't discussing in good faith from the start.

He's just "Stalker mode is good. I love PVP. These Naysayers are wrong. I am right. Only I am right. You are all wrong."

He didn't even try to hide it 😂

Edited December 5, 2018 by Guest

[BornWithTeeth]

3 minutes ago, Datam4ss said:

You realize he wasn't discussing in good faith from the start.

He's just "Stalker mode is good. I love PVP. These Naysayers are wrong. I am right. Only I am right. You are all wrong."

He didn't even try to hide it 😂

That’s fair, but I wanted to be quite honest and straightforward myself.

[Falconer777]

7 минут назад, Tsukinoki сказал:

I wasn't attempting to speak for everyone...but I mean that would actually take effort to read my post and my argument instead of just taking a random snippet to attack....

OK, I see) I misunderstood you, sorry)

[SneakyErvin]

16 hours ago, Shadowh4nd said:

No game is enjoyable as a whole with trash internet. You can set your matchmaking preferences down to a livable ping rate within the options. I would hope stalker mode uses the same filter.

Yeah, you mean the filters that rarely never work.

"Oh hey I'll set it to 150ms since that is acceptable"

joins a game

"Hmm why does the enenmies hitch like ghosts on crack?" 

looks at ping

"Oh 1500ms, well it is only a zero off from my filter."

 

[SneakyErvin]

15 hours ago, Aldain said:

I want to say this, in as simple as a fashion as humanly possible and mean as little offense as I am theoretically able to imply.

If you want to invade and troll other people with forced PvP in a video game, go play Dark Souls and leave the mainly co-op games ALONE.

Not every bloody thing needs to have an invasion system, Dark Souls is not the pinnacle of game design. Everyone doesn't play games for PvP and trolling purposes.

Also, Dark Souls "PvP" is nothing but PvP for carebears. Most of those that play it wouldnt manage a real PvP based game or even a game with open world PvP like WoW. They'd probably sit and cry infront of their screen when they get raped by a gnome for the 211th time that day.

I know a few people that are massive Demon/Dark Souls fans and see themselves as "real" PvPers, yet they break down like little babies when they get jumped in an open world game, deer-in-the-headlights behavior.

[DatDarkOne]

2 hours ago, Falconer777 said:

Who is "we"? 🙂 Please speak for yourself. Some people in my clan love the Conclave very much.                                                Personally, I came to Warframe including for PvP. I knew that PvP is in this game, and it also interested me.
Another thing is that I don't like the Conclave.
PvP in Destiny 2 or Guild Wars 2 suits me much more.
But I will only be “in favor” if a new interesting playable PvP mode appears in the Warframe. 
Because it is interesting, because it is an endless endgame.

This post is funny as hell.  You want PvP in Warframe, but hate Conclave.  LMAO!  

56 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Also, Dark Souls "PvP" is nothing but PvP for carebears. Most of those that play it wouldnt manage a real PvP based game or even a game with open world PvP like WoW. They'd probably sit and cry infront of their screen when they get raped by a gnome for the 211th time that day.

I know a few people that are massive Demon/Dark Souls fans and see themselves as "real" PvPers, yet they break down like little babies when they get jumped in an open world game, deer-in-the-headlights behavior.

This is so true.  I had this group of dweebs that tried to grief me in Ace Combat 6 a while back.  At the last second, they all switch to the opposite team.  Leaving just me alone against the 3 of them.  They talked trash at first, then cried like little babies when they couldn't shoot down my F-22.  

I expect similar to happen for all those that think forced PvP Stalker would be fun.  I've said this once before in another Stalker topic.  If Stalker mode is added, I will make it my mission to troll the hell out of the mode to show just how much of a bad idea it is.  I will be an equal opportunity arsehole as Stalker on general principle until the whole mode is either removed or changed from forced.  

I can guaranty that each of you for Stalker Mode fans wouldn't like me as Stalker at all.  

Edited December 5, 2018 by DatDarkOne

[Aldain]

22 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Also, Dark Souls "PvP" is nothing but PvP for carebears. Most of those that play it wouldnt manage a real PvP based game or even a game with open world PvP like WoW. They'd probably sit and cry infront of their screen when they get raped by a gnome for the 211th time that day.

I know a few people that are massive Demon/Dark Souls fans and see themselves as "real" PvPers, yet they break down like little babies when they get jumped in an open world game, deer-in-the-headlights behavior.

To be fair, there are only a few types of PvP games, Numbers cheese games, where level and gear numbers decide victory 99.9% of the time (guess which most MMOs fall under?), twitch reflex games (most low time to kill shooters), and traditional fighters (Frame Fighter anyone?) are only a few archetypes.

In most cases where people want "Invasion based PvP" the advocates mainly want to just waltz in with overpowered gear (numbers cheese) and unga bunga their way to wins while giggling and thinking they are "DA BES", they aren't looking for fair fights, that's what sets me off about this type of PvP, and I'll admit, I'm awful at 90% of all PvP games because I lack the reflexes (and honest to god competitive nature) to succeed in them.

To me a good way to do Stalker mode would be to make it a Conclave type mode that emulates "Juggernaut" style game modes, but people just want their "Invasion" system so much that they say "I hate Conclave" instead of thinking how to fix it, and then blame PvE fans for why PvP isn't more popular and want to go into PvP to ruin PvE players and to HELL with the consequences it has on the community. You can't have your cake and somebody else's too.

[SneakyErvin]

3 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

This post is funny as hell.  You want PvP in Warframe, but hate Conclave.  LMAO!  

This is so true.  I was had this group of dweebs that tried to grief me in Ace Combat 6 a while back.  At the last second, they all switch to the opposite team.  Leaving just me alone against the 3 of them.  They talked trash at first, then cried like little babies when they couldn't shoot down my F-22.  

I expect similar to happen for all those that think forced PvP Stalker would be fun.  I've said this once before in another Stalker topic.  If Stalker mode is added, I will make it my mission to troll the hell out of the mode to show just how much of a bad idea it is.  I will be an equal opportunity arsehole as Stalker on general principle until the whole mode is either removed or changed from forced.  

I can guaranty that each of you for Stalker Mode fans wouldn't like me as Stalker at all.  

Yep same. I will troll the hell out of people as much as possible if a Stalker mode comes. I'm an old old-school PvPer where faction restrictions have been the only thing limiting my murder spree in games. I've always played on PvP servers where possible and have caused my fair share of griefing through ganking. I've always tried to go for the extreme shennanigans in order to tick people off. Ganking lowbies and high levels alike in WoW and SWToR (although I have a soft fuzzy warm heart for lowbies that start dancing with me), booby-trapping vehicles thoughout my battlefield years (since 1942) and running bushwhack skirmish gankster groups in DaoC, WaR, GW2 and ESO.

Oh and my favorite, mind #*!%ing people in game like ArcheAge and WoW to the point where they try to get back at you in the middle of neutral town guards. Hilarious in goblin owned towns in WoW!

[FlusteredFerret]

I think this entire thread needs to be copied & pasted (or just moved) to the Feedback section, so the devs can see just how much of a concern this proposal is.

 

Lets look at this:

 

Regular Stalker:

- You're marked for death.

- He shows up randomly, mid-mission with a minimal amount of warning.

- You fight and either kill him, run away, or he vanquishes you (all 3 have happened to me)

- In 2 cases he simply disappears back to whatever shadowy realm he occupies when he's not...erm...stalking, in the other you simply evade him.

- A bit of an annoyance and disruption to a normal mission...and most importantly IT ONLY HAPPENS INFREQUENTLY.

 

Stalker Mode:

- Players can take on the Stalker character.

- Will be able to invade other peoples' games any time they like (we assume).

- If vanquished, will they disappear or will they be able to revive and continue (horrific troll potential if so)?

- Will they be able to play in open world locations, or restricted to normal mission nodes (again awful trolling possible if the former)?

- Instead of being an occasional minor nuisance, it becomes a full-time form of harassment for people who play this game purely for PvE.

 

Edited December 5, 2018 by FlusteredFerret

[SneakyErvin]

2 minutes ago, Aldain said:

To me a good way to do Stalker mode would be to make it a Conclave type mode that emulates "Juggernaut" style game modes, but people just want their "Invasion" system so much that they say "I hate Conclave" instead of thinking how to fix it, and then blame PvE fans for why PvP isn't more popular and want to go into PvP to ruin PvE players and to HELL with the consequences it has on the community. You can't have your cake and somebody else's too.

I think so too. In regular missions he will just be weak old Stalker anyways, just with a player behind the controls that gets to see what Stalker sees those two seconds he is alive. Even in sortie 3 missions he goes down in a second or two most time. 

Not sure how they will be able to balance that unless they let stalker spawn in away from the players and then go find them. In most other cases he will just be DoA. Personally I think DE should just skip the idea of PvP altogether and focus on the part that is strong in the game i.e PvE. I dont need PvP in all my games to enjoy them, I rather play two different games in such a case, one designed for PvE and one designed for PvP. And my PvP game of choice would never ever run on a peer-to-peer setup.

[vvhorus]

13 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Yep same. I will troll the hell out of people as much as possible if a Stalker mode comes. I'm an old old-school PvPer where faction restrictions have been the only thing limiting my murder spree in games. I've always played on PvP servers where possible and have caused my fair share of griefing through ganking. I've always tried to go for the extreme shennanigans in order to tick people off. Ganking lowbies and high levels alike in WoW and SWToR (although I have a soft fuzzy warm heart for lowbies that start dancing with me), booby-trapping vehicles thoughout my battlefield years (since 1942) and running bushwhack skirmish gankster groups in DaoC, WaR, GW2 and ESO.

Oh and my favorite, mind #*!%ing people in game like ArcheAge and WoW to the point where they try to get back at you in the middle of neutral town guards. Hilarious in goblin owned towns in WoW!

You should play The Division, then. You would feel right at home...

[rand0mname]

If I wanted to PvP, I would PvP. 

17 часов назад, Shadowh4nd сказал:

I'm sorry to very rarely interrupt your critically mundane grinding to require you to revive a teammate, tenno. This game needs difficulty and variety. Stalker mode seems little more than a prank. I do not understand your vehemence towards it. I could understand if I'm camping your corpse as you walk 10 minutes from the graveyard in Stranglethorn Vale, but that's just absolutely not the case here.

I do not understand, why should I entertain you even for a minute if I am not in the mood? It sounds like a job.

[DatDarkOne]

28 minutes ago, Aldain said:

In most cases where people want "Invasion based PvP" the advocates mainly want to just waltz in with overpowered gear (numbers cheese) and unga bunga their way to wins while giggling and thinking they are "DA BES", they aren't looking for fair fights, that's what sets me off about this type of PvP

You Sir have hit the nail on the head.  

[BornWithTeeth]

7 minutes ago, rand0mname said:

 

I do not understand, why should I entertain you even for a minute if I am not in the mood? It sounds like a job.

Which is a thing I’ve noticed in a lot of folks arguing for the mode: a sense of entitlement. A feeling that they should have the right to mess with others, and if people want them to lay off, they’re gonna have to make them go away.

 

When the mode was first displayed, ages back, there was a lot of discussion of it here, lots of talking about ways it could be fixed or implemented without being dreadful, and it kinda boiled down to one rather specific conflict: People who didn’t like PvP said “Sure, just make it optional”, to which advocates of Stalker mode responded with actual honest to god outrage. That was pretty telling, kind of a giveaway of what the motivation behind a lot of it is.

 

I mean, I’m not exaggerating, one guy said that anyone who’d prefer to leave it as opt in/out should be sent to Iraq to get shot at for real. The mods quietly vanished that post, but I honestly wish they’d have left it up, just so that the debate could be seen in its true colours, as it were.

[Tsukinoki]

Just now, BornWithTeeth said:

I mean, I’m not exaggerating, one guy said that anyone who’d prefer to leave it as opt in/out should be sent to Iraq to get shot at for real. The mods quietly vanished that post, but I honestly wish they’d have left it up, just so that the debate could be seen in its true colours, as it were.

I remember seeing that post...and yet the proponents for forced PvP say the people who just want it to be optional, and with non-exclusive game-affecting rewards so it is actually 100% optional, are the ones being unreasonable and mean and angry.
Sure the majority of proponents aren't that bad, but there are a number of them like that....

I honestly don't understand the mentality that they have that they should have the right to invade someone else's game, against said persons wishes, and essentially ruin it with no option to stop it.
What's wrong with playing a PvE game for PvE?  Why does PvP have to be forced on everyone?
It won't make the game more fun.  It won't make the game more entertaining.  It'll just be annoying and make a lot of players resentful with absolutely zero benefit.

[DatDarkOne]

1 minute ago, BornWithTeeth said:

Which is a thing I’ve noticed in a lot of folks arguing for the mode: a sense of entitlement. A feeling that they should have the right to mess with others, and if people want them to lay off, they’re gonna have to make them go away.

 

When the mode was first displayed, ages back, there was a lot of discussion of it here, lots of talking about ways it could be fixed or implemented without being dreadful, and it kinda boiled down to one rather specific conflict: People who didn’t like PvP said “Sure, just make it optional”, to which advocates of Stalker mode responded with actual honest to god outrage. That was pretty telling, kind of a giveaway of what the motivation behind a lot of it is.

 

I mean, I’m not exaggerating, one guy said that anyone who’d prefer to leave it as opt in/out should be sent to Iraq to get shot at for real. The mods quietly vanished that post, but I honestly wish they’d have left it up, just so that the debate could be seen in its true colours, as it were.

I remember that topic quite well. It was why I made the Troll mission challenge both there and here.  Mostly so that those for the mode would truly think about the possible implications of their suggestions.  Do they really want to face off against a player who has had 3 years of playing with nothing but bows to have a guaranteed oneshot kill Dread as the Stalker.  One who won't just stand there and let a team beat on him without moving or using parkour and my Stalker powers to dispel al of your powers.  

I truly believe that they really aren't thinking the whole thing through.  I have and even thought up quite a few tactics to use in my Troll crusade should the mode get added.   

[Aramil999]

Lot's of people started to post:

"if u like pvp/invasions go play different game", this is very bad point because it can be said ABOUT all new features, so if this mindset is the only correct one game should get no new updates.

Be more openminded.

edit: i mean suggest something, don't just runt about how bad idea it is, maybe add time limit to prevent long trolling etc.

Edited December 5, 2018 by Aramil999

[DatDarkOne]

1 minute ago, Aramil999 said:

Be more openminded.

Check my post directly above yours.  Read it and truly digest what is being said, then get back at me.  Cheers. 

 

[Aramil999]

@DatDarkOne i did. 

and? Toxic people are everywhere. 

Suggest ways to prevent trolling/griefing instead of saying "no, delete this project".

[DatDarkOne]

5 minutes ago, Aramil999 said:

@DatDarkOne i did. 

and? Toxic people are everywhere. 

Suggest ways to prevent trolling/griefing instead of saying "no, delete this project".

You didn't get mypost at all.  My post was about if you are really prepared to face a player controlling Stalker with a Oneshot kill Dread th skill set that I have achieved in 3 years of playing with nothing but bows.  

If this is trolling/griefing by your own definition, then maybe the idea of the mode isn't as good as you are thinking.  

Edited December 5, 2018 by DatDarkOne