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so whats your take on adaptation


(PSN)tissot555
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Hello! I am curious to know how players are feeling about adaptation. Do you find that it adds some noticeable survive ability? I haven't used it for myself so I was hoping to get some feedback. I assume it doesn't work miracles for super squishy frames, but was wondering how it worked on middle of the road armored warframes.

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It's great on medium survivability frames. Frames like Excalibur and Saryn love it. Squishy frames will just die before they can stack it and high survivability frames don't need it, it just takes up a slot for them they could use to cover some other weakness. For squishy frames, you'd be better served with rolling guard.

 

Edited by Erytroxylin
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Great on paper, useful in practice but poor in context. It's a great concept that works really well in allowing you to play to your frame's stats rather than having the default max vitality and constantly lock down the entire map. Mag, Volt and Harrow are great examples of it being extremely amazing while it still works to a decent degree with even the squisher frames like Nova.

The problem is most late-game content usually involves getting killed in 5 hits or so even with Redirection, Primed Vigor and Adaptation because you're dealing with level 80 Bombards that hit you for 600+ damage.

Edited by Flandyrll
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90% damage reduction but

  • after 9 hits (so after 10 hits 55% of damage is taken, after 20 hits 32,5%, after 30 hits 25%)
  • just only for the dominant damage type because the dominant damage type is determined before reduction, beware of equally damage composition weapons because you will get the least benefit from this mod

High rate of fire and low damage per bullet is good, low rate of fire and hard hitting enemies must be kept for better times.
I think this mod can be usefull if you have a damage reducing ability and you want to spend less energy after full stack adaptation.
You can also use it when you decide to be a super tank using high blocking melee and Guardian Derision.
 

Spoiler

latest?cb=20171007150641

 

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It's very usable with frames that have a decent hp and armor or have some form of healing, but best on frames with innate damage reduction and/or constant healing.

But you have to have in mind that most of the time it won't really be 90% DR. You gain resistance to a specific element, which for most enemies, is just a portion of the damage distribution of their attack. So, say, if an enemy deals 50% impact, 25% puncture and 25% slash in their attack, you'll only build up resistance to impact, and once reduced by 90%, the impact portion of the incoming damage will go down to 5% of the enemy's total damage. Which is nice, but the other 2 portions of the damage will remain intact.

So, in the end, with that example I gave, you'll still be taking 55% of the attack's original damage, which is why constant healing or innate tank abilities work best for adaptation.

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It’s useful against enemies that proc Elemental or Impact Damage like Bombards and normal/corrupted Heavy Gunners. Against enemies like Arid Heavy Gunners, it barely gives you extra noticeable tankiness. If your Frame can deal with the pain of enemies well, Adaption would increases the amount of beating you can take with the same Frame. If it dosen’t, then Adaption wouldn’t help you that much. That’s where Quick Thinking and/or Rolling Guard becomes better options. Adaption is nice to have on my Garuda but Rolling Guard works so well at saving me from dying sometimes.

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33 minutes ago, deothor said:

Isn't it broken/bugged though?

2-3 weeks'ish ago someone made some experiment with it and this mod hardly made a difference.

What is this experiment and why would it indicate that it's broken or bugged?

90% damage resistance to a specific type of damage is very seldom a complete reduction of 90% as many attacks are compromised from different damage types. It's working as intended, it's just that the mechanics of it makes it underperform against surface level expectation when dealing with most physical-based attacks.

The way to test this is to use it against a Heavy Gunner and then against a Ratel or Scorch. It works wonders against the latter two but not against the former due to damage types.

Edited by Flandyrll
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10 minutes ago, Flandyrll said:

What is this experiment and why would it indicate that it's broken or bugged?

Overall it simply does not work

Edit: there were few more experiments. All of them indicate this mod doesnt work.

Edited by deothor
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13 minutes ago, deothor said:

Overall it simply does not work

Edit: there were few more experiments. All of them indicate this mod doesnt work.

The experiment environment is questionable as there is no exact consistency between both test cases. If you make the comparison in an actual consistent environment, the results all point to Adaptation working correctly to the design and not to surface level expectation that you will only receive 10% damage.

Here are two simple test cases in a consistent test environment.

Spoiler

 

 

Spoiler

 

Without Adaptation, you can see that Arcane Aegis does not have the capability to recover shields faster than the damage taken. Meanwhile, with Adaptation, after the initial burst of damage while resistances are built up, the damage done by enemies is cut down to a point where they can no longer do more damage than Arcane Aegis can recover.

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9 minutes ago, Flandyrll said:

Here are two simple test cases in a consistent test environment.

adaptation doesnt work in simulacrum or so people say. On top of that shields are rather bad idea to test with, not to mention aegis RNG activation.

If it really worked and we had 90% dmg reduction, you'd hardly see your shields dropping

 

Tbh i don't care if you believe it or not, take it as you will.

Edited by deothor
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5 minutes ago, deothor said:

If it really worked and we had 90% dmg reduction, you'd hardly see your shields dropping

You dont have 90% DMG reduction. You have 90% to a single type when each bullet typically does 3 types, so generally it works out to around a 50% damage reduction maybe. Doing some gorilla math here off the top of my head.

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9 minutes ago, deothor said:

adaptation doesnt work in simulacrum or so people say. On top of that shields are rather bad idea to test with, not to mention aegis RNG activation.

If it really worked and we had 90% dmg reduction, you'd hardly see your shields dropping

Which is the case I've shown with the Scorch. Those are done in Simulcrum where you claim it doesn't work but clearly, they are working fine. The reason why I tested it with Shields is simply because Shields do not have any damage reduction from Armor. I've already explained it, physical damage types consist of IPS while the Scorch only does fire damage which is why there is such a stark difference in the damage done after Adaptation kicks and the test after where it the Scorch is doing about 200 damage per tick.

At this point, you're trusting faulty "science" because you want to be right. 

Edited by Flandyrll
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I think the mod is situational.  For me it only seems especially noticeable on already tanky frames and against specific factions like Corpus\Sentient that use primarily Puncture or single damage types.  Its not terrible against the others but the IPS spread and damage types matter.  (Adaptation is generally weaker vs. Slash and Toxin)


One bug I noticed in testing is that it seems to permanently turn off for the rest of the mission if I die even once.

Another bug is that it doesn't properly work sometimes, like it doesn't resist Impact as much as it should on shields.  At +90% resistance it resists 45% of impact damage instead of the expected 60%.  So there's probably other cases where it just doesn't do what its saying it does as well.


I also want to correct the idea that this is 90% damage reduction against a particular damage type; its actually damage resistance stacked on top of pre-existing damage resistances (using Shield/Flesh health types from my testing).  Which is functionally the same for some damage types but also means its weaker\stronger against others.

So for example on Warframe health: Toxin Resistance with a fully stacked Adaptation will go from -50% to 40% resistance, protecting from 60% of the Toxin damage (tested on Toxic Ancient and M.Osprey).

It seems to also have some cap I don't fully understand on maximum resistance to prevent players from getting to 100% resistance with it alone too.  Seems to cap at 90% Damage Reduction (not resistance this time) against single damage type attacks where 90% Damage Type Resistance would add up to full immunity. (Such as Hysteria's self-damage which is pure Impact)

 

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On 2018-12-13 at 7:01 AM, (PS4)tissot555 said:

Hello! I am curious to know how players are feeling about adaptation. Do you find that it adds some noticeable survive ability? I haven't used it for myself so I was hoping to get some feedback. I assume it doesn't work miracles for super squishy frames, but was wondering how it worked on middle of the road armored warframes.

8 level 125 heavies 

you tell me OP.

Edited by (XB1)RDeschain82
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10 hours ago, (XB1)RDeschain82 said:

8 level 125 heavies 

you tell me OP.

yea but thats's mesa lol. i was thinking more on the lines of atlas. i have his armor over 1300 and health over 1000 and i was wondering what adaptation would really do. i worked it into the build and it most definitely made a difference, so i was pleased. thanks for sharing the vid though

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