5 years of developing Warframe

[WhiteWingCat]

I can see how far Warframe have come into. Despite having new feature and Open world released and many other stuffs. But i know most of you would still think warframe have a "content drought" (not me) even though the content the Dev have made was amazing. To most veterans, i think i understand why Warframe don't have the "endgame" we all wanted for. But when you think about it, 5 years of development for Warframe is still "the beginning". If we give DE another 5 years, who knows we might have something we all wanted for. The Veterans like us just have to.... you know... "SOON^tm".

I mean well, i'm not trying to compare to other games but in a good way. If 10 years of developing FFV and Kingdom Hearts 3 and have an amazing content, then we just need to wait 5 more years of Warframe development to see the difference from now.

[Lewtenant]

That won't happen if the player base grows complacent with current content. DE is pushing the envelope and the players push them back. We urge them to release more content and they are compelled to do so in unique and new ways to keep us engaged. The SOON cycle is motivational for DE, until competing games in the genre surface (e.g. Anthem). Also please reread your posts before posting. Your first sentence gave me a stroke.

[The_Mustachio]

22 minutes ago, Lewtenant said:

Also please reread your posts before posting. Your first sentence gave me a stroke.

Just the first sentence?

[PurrrningBoop]

I'm a bit lost at what are you actually trying to say.

Endgame means the end of line, finish - nothing after that, a dead end,  At some point Sorties were endgame content, as well as Raids, Eidolon hunts, ESO, [something that i've missed]. Orbs in Vallis are next in line, probably, will have to see. Just as in any other ongoing game we get updates and we speed through the new stuff and return to stuff that we like doing afterwards.

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

If Anthem actually turns out to be good...I'm not holding my breath on that...but if it does...then De would have a competitor along side Destiny in the whole power sci-fi fantasy market...that's a good thing...De tends to get very competitive and frequent updates and mods and weapons that have some real benefits begin to appear,,,now they just have to get back into making monsters for the players to use that power on...

Edited December 13, 2018 by (PS4)FriendSharkey

[Orgoon]

Until those 5 or 10 years pass, us veterans will only login to collect our daily rewards and be off to play (or god forbid!) do something else.

[Orgoon]

39 minutes ago, Lewtenant said:

That won't happen if the player base grows complacent with current content. DE is pushing the envelope and the players push them back. We urge them to release more content and they are compelled to do so in unique and new ways to keep us engaged. The SOON cycle is motivational for DE, until competing games in the genre surface (e.g. Anthem). Also please reread your posts before posting. Your first sentence gave me a stroke.

Grammar nazi much? You missed a comma after e.g.

[(PSN)xtharbadx]

Wish we could look at some numbers that would help understand where Warframe loses players.

It's easy to point fingers to the lack of "end game", but personally I'm not convinced that that is the case.

I get the feeling that players leave Warframe way before they reach anywhere close to "end game" status, so that's not really relevant to them.

We can see that for example on the Steam charts.

I expected Vets to enjoy the new content for a couple weeks and then numbers would be back to normal until DE drops new content ( Fortuna 2.0 ). This is exactly what happened. However, even with such a big marketing campaign promoting Fortuna, it doesn't seem like Warframe is being able to retain new players, otherwise after Vets had finished content, we would still see higher numbers than before Fortuna. But that is not the case.

Maybe this is why DE isn't investing much on "end content", hard to justify if that does not work to increase the player base and does not have the necessary ROI.

In other words, does "end game" content bring new players? Does it increase revenue coming from old players? I have some doubts about that.

Edited December 13, 2018 by (PS4)xtharbadx

[(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz]

1 hour ago, (PS4)xtharbadx said:

Wish we could look at some numbers that would help understand where Warframe loses players.

It's easy to point fingers to the lack of "end game", but personally I'm not convinced that that is the case.

I get the feeling that players leave Warframe way before they reach anywhere close to "end game" status, so that's not really relevant to them.

We can see that for example on the Steam charts.

I expected Vets to enjoy the new content for a couple weeks and then numbers would be back to normal until DE drops new content ( Fortuna 2.0 ). This is exactly what happened. However, even with such a big marketing campaign promoting Fortuna, it doesn't seem like Warframe is being able to retain new players, otherwise after Vets had finished content, we would still see higher numbers than before Fortuna. But that is not the case.

Maybe this is why DE isn't investing much on "end content", hard to justify if that does not work to increase the player base and does not have the necessary ROI.

In other words, does "end game" content bring new players? Does it increase revenue coming from old players? I have some doubts about that.

End game has very little to do with bringing in newer players, if at all.

New players arrive based around hype from advertising, gameplay footage, word of mouth, etc.  I began playing this game because my best friend was always on it and a lot of other games weren't doing it for me at that time.

By the time end game became a thought for me I was already there.  You could argue player RETENTION is based around end game, but Warframe seems to have a pretty loyal following as is.

If players want true end game btw, they will have to come to grips with relinquishing the effects of the other elephant in the room: power creep.

[Redfeather75]

Is there a game with lots of variety and novel game modes. That's what excites.

[(PSN)thowed]

The games you named only took that long because of the horrible management at SE.  KH3 will probably be great but not all those years of development great.

[(PSN)xtharbadx]

9 minutes ago, (XB1)Thy Divinity said:

You could argue player RETENTION is based around end game

That's not what I'm arguing, I'm saying that I have a feeling that Warframe fails to retain players *before* they even reach anywhere close for end game to be a factor.

[Horaciozhao]

It seems there is a lot of shout out about content drought for veterans lately, and I do agree with them as I have over 1500 hours of play time. However I also don't see how the supposed "End-game" would solve that, because let's be honest, nothing can keep you interested 24/7 anymore after 1000 hours. And there is no way DE could push out enough contents to keep the 1000 hours veterans engaged all the time, unless maybe you give them a year without any update. I think people have to understand, no matter how much contents they can possibly push out in 3 months period, someone that has every frame every weapon, done every quest will burn through whatever new contents much faster than they can create.

 

So, you know, go play some other games, there are thousands of them out there, and come back after a while.

[Volinus7]

Give Warframe another 5 years and it might be simplified and ported into android/ios as an incremental clicking game. 

[ZeyhmaniBormahu]

5-10 year and maybe the game is be more popular and widely played or become forgotten. This game can survive if they will facelift the game and it's engine after 10 year and in that timeline the game had a lot of contents.

[Corvid]

5 hours ago, Orgoon said:

Grammar nazi much? You missed a comma after e.g.

No he didn't. E.G. is written with periods, not commas.

[Thaelyn2]

5 hours ago, (PS4)FriendSharkey said:

If Anthem actually turns out to be good...I'm not holding my breath on that

EA..

 

That's all I have to say about that

/forrestgump

[Orgoon]

1 hour ago, Corvid said:

No he didn't. E.G. is written with periods, not commas.

Another grammar nazi? 5 out of 6 style guides recommend putting a comma.

[Talonflight]

The charts of player retention being the topic, we must also consider that it is a free game.

As such, there will be more players who "start" the game and sign up and log in, and then decide that the game is not for them, or can't play it enough, or have trouble getting started, etc.

These players are "maybe" players.

If the game had actually cost any money, they wouldn't have bought the game at all, but they would have been interested or might have watched a let's play on youtube.

Therefore, if we compare Warframe to a buyable game, the actual amount of people who would "Buy" the game is much lower than the projected "registered users" on steam currently, because it will always attract more people simply by virtue of being free, which then leads to a percentage of that larger amount of people just deciding it wasn't a game for them.

[(PSN)Zero_029]

14 hours ago, (PS4)xtharbadx said:

I get the feeling that players leave Warframe way before they reach anywhere close to "end game" status, so that's not really relevant to them.

Winner, winner, chicken dinner.

Thanks to Fortuna I have a slew of new players under my wing. Both on PS4 & via cell phone (coworkers, classmates, friends, etc) as they are on different consoles.

And right now...after Fortuna part 2...DE impo needs to hunker down on revamping the New Player Experience.

Vor's Prize does a half asked job at teaching new players.

Modding, Relics, Status, companions, and more have no real explanation.

I find myself having to give pep talks to the newbies, offering advice, & find myself having to (in painful detail) go over the mechanics of the game.

Also, DE did a great job at the new MR levels for Weapons, but they looked to deeply at the late game aspects. The early game is (for fresh players) is brutal thanks to the MR requirements.

Nothing of true Substance really unlocks for them until MR 6 or 8. The resource economy is bad as well.

The Jackal drops Rhino parts but Plastids & Control Modules are needed to make him. Plastids don't become available until Phobos (and they are rare on Phobos), & Control Modules are not available until Teshub, Void or Europa. So New Players are locked in 1 frame until post Jupiter.
So until a player is (just about) halfway through the Star Chart they have to spend platinum on these resources (as they cannot be traded) when that starter platinum is needed for Weapon Slots in the early game.
Forma is nigh non-existent as well. So many of them are not sure how to upgrade their Frame. (Yes, relics can award the blueprints. But Forma BPs require ingredients that are nigh non-existent to new players. (Orokin Cell, Neural Sensors, & Neurodes)

The crafting times also are too extreme for a new player. During the first 40-100 hours the game needs to "hook" the newbies & crafting times are not good for this.
3 days is too long for a "fresh" player. While I 100% understand the time requirement I'll quote one of my newbie Tenno: "So basically the game wants me to not play for 3 days?"
(IMPO, DE should have the "starter" frames be a quicker craft. Excalibur, Volt, Mag, Rhino impo should be 12 or 24hr craft times. This way new players have something to look forward to & are not discouraged to stop playing all together.)
DE has somewhat fixed the issues somewhat with some newbie guns only costing credits. 

Basically the game is very new player unfriendly until maybe Jupiter. That's when stuff begins to open up weapon wise, player skill is more settled, & due to the surplus of items crafting wait times are no longer like pulling teeth.

Early story progression is a mess too. You kill Vor in Vor's Prize but then you have to go to Mercury to Kill him again, just to go to Ceres & kill Vor a third time with alive again Lich Kril. (No lore explanation for why both of them are alive again. After all, didn't Vor get corrupted after we killed him? Why is he normal again?)

I've found that most new players give up around Mars/Phobos.

Edited December 14, 2018 by (PS4)Zero_029
Clarified some points, corrected some auto-corrected sentences.

[Marvelous_A]

Lack of competition between players is the ultimate reason why Warframe will not keep the players.

Just look at steam statistics, 7 out of 10 are either pure PVP or at least PVP oriented. The first 3 can outnumbers no.4-no.10 together on their own and they are pure PVP games. Players tend to find excitement in human vs human competitions and that's what Warframe not delivers. Without competition Warframe grows old very quick to some players coz essentially in Warframe you just get stronger weapons to kill stonger enemies and that's 99% of what you will be doing in this game.

Edited December 14, 2018 by Marvelous_A

[deothor]

14 hours ago, WhiteWingCat said:

5 years of development for Warframe is still "the beginning".

That's some super upgraded "game is still in beta!11" argument.

[Fire2box]

3 hours ago, (PS4)Zero_029 said:

Winner, winner, chicken dinner.

Thanks to Fortuna I have a slew of new players under my wing. Both on PS4 & via cell phone (coworkers, classmates, friends, etc) as they are on different consoles.

And right now...after Fortuna part 2...DE impo needs to hunker down on revamping the New Player Experience.

Vor's Prize does a half asked job at teaching new players.

Modding, Relics, Status, companions, and more have no real explanation.

I find myself having to give pep talks to the newbies, offering advice, & find myself having to (in painful detail) go over the mechanics of the game.

Also, DE did a great job at the new MR levels for Weapons, but they looked to deeply at the late game aspects. The early game is (for fresh players) is brutal thanks to the MR requirements.

Nothing of true Substance really unlocks for them until MR 6 or 8. The resource economy is bad as well.

The Jackal drops Rhino parts but Plastids & Control Modules are needed to make him. Plastids don't rarer become available until Phobos, & Control Modules are not until Teshub, Void or Europa. So New Players are locked in 1 frame until post Jupiter.

Forma is nigh non-existent as well. So many of them are not sure how to upgrade their Frame. (Yes, relics can award the blueprints. But Forma BPs require ingredients that are nigh non-existent to new players. (Orokin Cell, Neural Sensors, & Neurodes)

Basically the game is very new player unfriendly until maybe Jupiter. That's when stuff begins to open up.

Early story progression is a mess too. You kill Vor in Vor's Prize but then you have to go to Mercury to Kill him again, just to go to Ceres & kill Vor a third time with alive again Lich Kril.

I've found that most new players give up around Mars/Phobos.

100% agree. I think DE needs to stop doing the ____ million registered players when hardly a fraction of that plays the game. I understand they might want to push open maps and stuff but I'm bored as hell and new players drop out far too soon. 

I'm not sure how DE cuts down the wait timers so new players aren't like " Oh ____ this!" like I was when I started in 2015 (came back in 2017 Q3 and stayed since) and still get's money. But I assume that's what prime access is for as well as the boosters.  

DE at the very least can explain what the hell modding is and why it's important and how players can earn plat via trading. Maybe they could do exactly what everyone of their WF partners do and advise players to spend the 50 starting plat on a warframe slot and 2 weapon slot packs. 

Edited December 14, 2018 by Fire2box

[Fire2box]

14 hours ago, (PS4)xtharbadx said:

Wish we could look at some numbers that would help understand where Warframe loses players.

It's easy to point fingers to the lack of "end game", but personally I'm not convinced that that is the case.

I get the feeling that players leave Warframe way before they reach anywhere close to "end game" status, so that's not really relevant to them.

We can see that for example on the Steam charts.

I expected Vets to enjoy the new content for a couple weeks and then numbers would be back to normal until DE drops new content ( Fortuna 2.0 ). This is exactly what happened. However, even with such a big marketing campaign promoting Fortuna, it doesn't seem like Warframe is being able to retain new players, otherwise after Vets had finished content, we would still see higher numbers than before Fortuna. But that is not the case.

Maybe this is why DE isn't investing much on "end content", hard to justify if that does not work to increase the player base and does not have the necessary ROI.

In other words, does "end game" content bring new players? Does it increase revenue coming from old players? I have some doubts about that.

I truly, utterly hope DE doesn't expect things like Plains and Fortuna to capture new players and leave them hooked on that content alone. I started a few weeks before plains came out I was still MR0 when I brought back my account from 2015 from it's grave.  Earning the standing to just get the first zaw you can possibly get, the fishing spears, the rock cutting lazer when you can only get something like 5k standing every 24 hours isn't fun. it's just a tease. 

DE has a fun game already they just do nothing to show it or guide new players. It honestly makes me mad that DE has a "guide of the lotus program" and yet they have nothing in game to guide new players. It's always the veteran players who help guide new players the most, nay the veteran players who are the sole guides for new players. 

 

to put it short. Warframe is easily one of the best games currently on the market and nobody knows it. DE should fix that. 

[AdunSaveMe]

I think people fail to understand just how hard it is to make a good endgame, let alone one in a game like Warframe, where the only way to create a reasonable endgame challenge is through cheese and sponges and ability nullification and a bunch of things that not only aren't fun, but can still be easily ignored. It's not the sort of game that can have an endgame.