Warframe storytelling

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

28 minutes ago, (PS4)Tara-The-Tigress said:

I think i could get to this quest without ever going to the relay or playing conclave, so i would also never meet Teshin.

If someone you have just met refers to you as his/her pupil, you think you have a special friendship and know that person? If you say hi to the president and he refers to you as his citizen, does that makes you close friends?

Tyl called him a pseudo-Tenno. That suggested to me that he was connected to us in another way. In my head that and him referring to us as pupils, created the image of him, or others like him training us in self-control when we returned from the void. 

23 minutes ago, Chaemyerelis said:

I talked to him once at conclave but then months went by when i finally did the war within. So i had no clue who he was. It wasn't until i decided to go to the wiki and read up on the lore that I realized that he was the conclave npc. 

I wasn't absolutely sure that they were one and the same at the time, but I made the connection. 

[(PSN)Tara-The-Tigress]

On 2018-12-19 at 9:01 PM, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Tyl called him a pseudo-Tenno. That suggested to me that he was connected to us in another way. In my head that and him referring to us as pupils, created the image of him, or others like him training us in self-control when we returned from the void. 

I wasn't absolutely sure that they were one and the same at the time, but I made the connection. 

So, basically the whole storytelling about Teshin took place in your fantasy. With just two tiny references you were able to create a whole image and a deep Master – pupil relationship with many memorable events and unforgettable adventures you had with him. You are the dream of every storywriter, because you save them a lot of work and time. 😃 They don´t have to create complex dialogues or unique moments with their characters, because you do it all by yourself.

That reminds me of a Russian joke:
An artist presents his art gallery. One visitor notices a large image with an impressive picture frame. The whole picture is completely blank. The visitor looks at the title. It says: “Cow on green gras”.
He asks the artist: “Where is the cow?”
The artist replies: “she went away.”
Visitor: “And where is the gras?”
Artists: “the cow ate it.”

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Tara-The-Tigress said:

So, basically the whole storytelling about Teshin took place in your fantasy. With just two tiny references you were able to create a whole image and a deep Master – pupil relationship with many memorable events and unforgettable adventures you had with him. You are the dream of every storywriter, because you save them a lot of work and time. 😃 They don´t have to create complex dialogues or unique moments with their characters, because you do it all by yourself.

You realise that one of those quotes is that he called you his pupil, and his title is Conclave Master, right? 

That alone is enough to explain the master-pupil relationship. 

According to the lore, we were known to the Dax, and at least one Orokin used our reputation to goad a Dax into doing their bidding. 

According to the lore, on our return from the void we were near uncontrollable monsters, lashing out in reflex at perceived threats with our void powers. The Dax, as highly disciplined troops with unquestioning obedience would probably have been used to try and sort us out, while others would balk at the task. 

My head cannon is not a radical departure from what we know to be true, just logical extension of the existing lore. 

[(PSN)Tara-The-Tigress]

34 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

You realise that one of those quotes is that he called you his pupil, and his title is Conclave Master, right? 

That alone is enough to explain the master-pupil relationship. 

According to the lore, we were known to the Dax, and at least one Orokin used our reputation to goad a Dax into doing their bidding. 

According to the lore, on our return from the void we were near uncontrollable monsters, lashing out in reflex at perceived threats with our void powers. The Dax, as highly disciplined troops with unquestioning obedience would probably have been used to try and sort us out, while others would balk at the task. 

My head cannon is not a radical departure from what we know to be true, just logical extension of the existing lore. 

"You realise that one of those quotes is that he called you his pupil, and his title is Conclave Master, right?" ---> This is not same as "a deep Master – pupil relationship with many memorable events and unforgettable adventures..."

"That alone is enough to explain the master-pupil relationship." ---> It explains it but has no depth to it.

I know the lore, but the point is the presentation of it in-game.

Your logical extension of existing lore comes from the codex, wiki, youtube videos, etc. Nothing really visual in-game.
Your personal interaction and feelings with the characters (adventures and deep conversations) come from your fantasy or head cannon 🤯. For me, there was not enough to actually care about Teshin.

 

 

[(XBOX)ZenithLord 42]

I’ve been saying for years that Warframe needs to gets its overall narrative fixed. It’s one unconnected talking head after the next with little to no inclusion of a coherent story until The Second Dream. 

Warframe could greatly benefit by simply adding more dialogue between NPC’s as you complete missions centered around each planet and it’s boss. 

Man easy way to include or even present an actual narrative would be to have hub areas like Steel Meridian’s “Iron Wake” or Cetus in which NPC’s give bounties similar to Konzu, in which there are specific rewards such as blueprints for weapons and unique items. 

Having smaller hub areas would also allow players access to previous events that are available in shorter forms that naturally occur as you progress. 

It’s incredibly odd how most of the story is simply not present in game and it would be awesome to have everything in the Origin System be accessible before starting “The New War”. Current gaming trends such as the constant grind can only substitute for so much before the game simply stagnates. 

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

4 hours ago, (PS4)Tara-The-Tigress said:

This is not same as "a deep Master – pupil relationship with many memorable events and unforgettable adventures..."

This is something that you would like, but is not actually required by the plot. 

Teshin, Dax-obedient warrior, would have been tasked with preventing the Sentients from conquering the origin system. His kind are gone, but there is a group of warriors whose reputation matched his kind's. But they were not apparently vigilant, and needed to be made ready for an attack. So he does what he can. 

And when a strange drone shows up, sniffing around the remnants of the old war, of the sentient in our system, digging up the past, he uses his influence to get us on the spot to combat the "menace long thought dead". 

Master - pupil. No more depth needed than what has been explained by the lore and what is about to be revealed. 

4 hours ago, (PS4)Tara-The-Tigress said:

I know the lore, but the point is the presentation of it in-game.

Your logical extension of existing lore comes from the codex, wiki, youtube videos, etc. Nothing really visual in-game.

The codex and dialogue within the game, are... Within the game. I have always had very good recall, and from long experience with games I learned the importance of paying attention while playing. I use the wiki as a reference tool to get the quotes right, but I haven't bothered with YouTube videos (other than the early prime release ones) which would just be a retelling of what I already know from the game. 

The logic is my own, and I realise that there are a lot of people who wouldn't bother with thinking it through. 

4 hours ago, (PS4)Tara-The-Tigress said:

Your personal interaction and feelings with the characters (adventures and deep conversations) come from your fantasy or head cannon 🤯. 

You keep implying that there's a lot of wonderful adventures I've created, but really for me it is just common sense applied to figuring out why things are they way they are. No huge leaps required. I don't need extra dialogue, or training montages to see what archetype he fits. 

 

4 hours ago, (PS4)Tara-The-Tigress said:

For me, there was not enough to actually care about Teshin.

Please understand that I'm not trying to say that you should change that, and that I do understand where you are coming from. You want more, we all do, but how much we want that is different. I don't need an extensive back story, starting when his father and mother met, detailing his training and internal conflicts, hinting at some tragic, unrequited love long turned to dust, to understand Teshin's place in my story. And that's fine. You feel like it might help you to care, and that's fine too. 

Personally I doubt that many people will care. They didn't bother to pay much attention to what little we have, and you even said that people don't need to bother going to the relay so they wouldn't necessarily be expected to know. If his story was locked away in some text that we opened up when we scanned it, do you think that many people would have bothered to read it?

I expect that a fair number of us, who often poke our noses into all the corners of every map, would have the level of recognition that you said you lacked. 

[(PSN)Tara-The-Tigress]

Now don´t take everything too personal, but you really asked for it! 😼

On 2018-12-21 at 7:46 PM, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Master - pupil. No more depth needed than what has been explained by the lore and what is about to be revealed.

No more depth needed? Not required by the plot? Ok, do you remember when Darth Vader told Luke Skywalker, that he was his father? By your standards it was not plot relevant. I could repeat that example with almost every great storytelling over and over and over again. Recently I watched Mortal Engines. Great visuals, but extremely superficial. That Cyborg Shrike and the girl just had a huge communication problem. See, I named you another example. I am not like politicians, who are all talking and no action or who need "fake facts". If I say something, I can proof it!

On 2018-12-21 at 7:46 PM, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

eshin, Dax-obedient warrior, would have been tasked with preventing the Sentients from conquering the origin system. His kind are gone, but there is a group of warriors whose reputation matched his kind's. But they were not apparently vigilant, and needed to be made ready for an attack. So he does what he can. 

And when a strange drone shows up, sniffing around the remnants of the old war, of the sentient in our system, digging up the past, he uses his influence to get us on the spot to combat the "menace long thought dead". 

Why do you keep telling me the story? Your replies could be so much shorter if your statement “I have always had very good recall” would be true. I said: “I know the story.” Do you recall that sentence? But of course, I am not on your “level of recognition”. Haha I am a M21 Gold tigress, so stop treating me like I just arrived in this game.

On 2018-12-21 at 7:46 PM, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

The codex and dialogue within the game, are... Within the game. I have always had very good recall, and from long experience with games I learned the importance of paying attention while playing. I use the wiki as a reference tool to get the quotes right, but I haven't bothered with YouTube videos (other than the early prime release ones) which would just be a retelling of what I already know from the game. 

Why did you need to use the wiki to get quotes right? Didn´t you just say: “… from long experience with games I learned the importance of paying attention while playing.” Looks like you don´t pay so much attention as you claim to do. Otherwise you would not need a wiki that is OUTSIDE of the game.

The whole dialogue of all characters could probably fit on one page and if I must read the whole story in-game, without any visual presentation, I could also buy a book. As I already said: The story is good, but the presentation is bad. Final Fantasy 8 for example is an exception. It has a lot of in-game text, but only because the characters are not synchronised. While they are talking you still have something to see. In Warframe you are just reading the codex, like a book. That means 0% game and 100% book. Like someone else already said: You are here to be entertained and not for a research project.

On 2018-12-21 at 7:46 PM, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

You keep implying that there's a lot of wonderful adventures I've created, but really for me it is just common sense applied to figuring out why things are they way they are. No huge leaps required. I don't need extra dialogue, or training montages to see what archetype he fits. 

You can establish and experience a deep connection to this guy without content? You are like a robot. History is full of people who call everything common sense. Even when their interpretation is completely wrong. But how do you proof it is wrong without communication and content? If you accompany me to my training and see my trainer, you say to yourself: "Oh, he looks very strong. I know exactly what kind of archetype he fits." That is just superficial.

 

On 2018-12-21 at 7:46 PM, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

I don't need an extensive back story, starting when his father and mother met, detailing his training and internal conflicts, hinting at some tragic, unrequited love long turned to dust, to understand Teshin's place in my story.

I don´t need that kind of stories as well and I was not talking about such stories. I was asking for stories he had with ME. Conversations he had with ME, before acting like some long-known friend. Something that made me feel he is an important person to me. It could also be done like in Devil May Cry 3. Vergil made a great impression even without talking much. He had a deep going interaction with Dante.

How do YOU make friends? Are you just walking to strangers and say: “Hi, my best friend.”, now the other person thinks: “Oh, he is referring to me as his best friend, so we must be best friends.” And now you are best friends. You are like the guys I was referring to in my topic. Teshin just popped out of nowhere and started to act like he is a big deal.

 

On 2018-12-21 at 7:46 PM, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

I expect that a fair number of us, who often poke our noses into all the corners of every map, would have the level of recognition that you said you lacked. 

When did I say or make you think that I did not recognize something? I did recognize who Teshin is, I already proofed that. Does that change anything about his PRESENTATION or interaction, no it doesn´t! Knowing someone’s role does not automatically make you care about that someone. With your level of recognition, I am sure you will find that out by yourself. Now excuse me, but I have to study for my exams.

Best wishes

Tara

 

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

54 minutes ago, (PS4)Tara-The-Tigress said:

No more depth needed? Not required by the plot? Ok, do you remember when Darth Vader told Luke Skywalker, that he was his father? By your standards it was not plot relevant. I could repeat that example with almost every great storytelling over and over and over again. Recently I watched Mortal Engines. Great visuals, but extremely superficial. That Cyborg Shrike and the girl just had a huge communication problem. See, I named you another example. I am not like politicians, who are all talking and no action or who need "fake facts". If I say something, I can proof it!

He said, "No. I am your father." he didn't give a long winded monologue about how he met Luke's mum, and fell in love with her etc etc etc. Cut and dry. Just what was needed to establish the nature of the relationship. Sort of like a known 'master' calling someone 'my pupil' established the relationship relevant to the story. 

So unfortunately what you proved is that very little is needed even in major plot twists to create even the most memorable (and yet misremembered) moments of a generation. 

1 hour ago, (PS4)Tara-The-Tigress said:

You can establish and experience a deep connection to this guy without content? You are like a robot. History is full of people who call everything common sense. Even when their interpretation is completely wrong. But how do you proof it is wrong without communication and content? If you accompany me to my training and see my trainer, you say to yourself: "Oh, he looks very strong. I know exactly what kind of archetype he fits." That is just superficial.

Do I need to establish a deep connection to him? Enough was established to get me through the events, and to set the scene for what was to come. 

BTW, were communicating, and I've shown where the content worked to establish the archetype. You're free to try and prove that he doesn't fit the archetype that was common sense for me or that it was wrong. You've not done so just yet. 

 

1 hour ago, (PS4)Tara-The-Tigress said:

I don´t need that kind of stories as well and I was not talking about such stories. I was asking for stories he had with ME. Conversations he had with ME, before acting like some long-known friend. Something that made me feel he is an important person to me. It could also be done like in Devil May Cry 3. Vergil made a great impression even without talking much. He had a deep going interaction with Dante.

How do YOU make friends? Are you just walking to strangers and say: “Hi, my best friend.”, now the other person thinks: “Oh, he is referring to me as his best friend, so we must be best friends.” And now you are best friends. You are like the guys I was referring to in my topic. Teshin just popped out of nowhere and started to act like he is a big deal.

Oh but you see, that's what you have wrong. Teshin is not your friend. He's the master and you are his pupil. He was always there at the relay. You may have missed him, or ignored him, or not cared about him, but he was there making it very clear who he is, Conclave Master. 

And you're making a rather large leap to try and link me to your hypothetical guys. In fact it's what you claimed the guys would have unreasonably done, isn't it? Jumping off the deep end based on very limited interaction.... Maybe you should rethink that. 

1 hour ago, (PS4)Tara-The-Tigress said:

When did I say or make you think that I did not recognize something? I did recognize who Teshin is, I already proofed that. Does that change anything about his PRESENTATION or interaction, no it doesn´t! Knowing someone’s role does not automatically make you care about that someone. With your level of recognition, I am sure you will find that out by yourself. Now excuse me, but I have to study for my exams.

Best wishes

Tara

Oh, it would have been comments like:

"During the quests you can hear some voices in the background who are mumbling about something you don´t really understand or care anyway, because you are too busy shooting things, looking for loot, enjoying the scenery or missing context to fully understand what they are talking about."

"My operator acted as if she was a student of Teshin or something, Like they have known each other for a long time and had more than just a simple relation. I was just thinking: Did I miss or skipped something?" 

"I think i could get to this quest without ever going to the relay or playing conclave, so i would also never meet Teshin." 

☝️🙂

 

Good luck with your exams. 👍

[(PSN)Tara-The-Tigress]

10 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

He said, "No. I am your father." he didn't give a long winded monologue about how he met Luke's mum, and fell in love with her etc etc etc. Cut and dry. Just what was needed to establish the nature of the relationship. Sort of like a known 'master' calling someone 'my pupil' established the relationship relevant to the story. 

So unfortunately what you proved is that very little is needed even in major plot twists to create even the most memorable (and yet misremembered) moments of a generation. 

Darth Vader was not standing on a relay the whole time. He had many scenes before he said that sentence. Scenes that build up his character. Teshin had no previous scenes at all before he popped out of nowhere. So, his little dialogues had no effect.

10 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Do I need to establish a deep connection to him? Enough was established to get me through the events, and to set the scene for what was to come. 

BTW, were communicating, and I've shown where the content worked to establish the archetype. You're free to try and prove that he doesn't fit the archetype that was common sense for me or that it was wrong. You've not done so just yet. 

So your whole gole is to just make it through the events... like a robot. Thanks for proofing that R2D2. 😂 And as I already mentioned: how can you proof something with so little content? More than half of your common sense is just a theory, because all you know about Teshin is his “role”. Does that change anything about his PRESENTATION or interaction, no it doesn´t! Knowing someone’s role does not automatically make you care about that someone. Hmmm, where did i hear that before...

10 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Oh but you see, that's what you have wrong. Teshin is not your friend. He's the master and you are his pupil. He was always there at the relay. You may have missed him, or ignored him, or not cared about him, but he was there making it very clear who he is, Conclave Master. 

Haha he is my master without training or interacting with me before the war within. That is just a joke. Looks like he is not just a pseudo Tenno, but also a pseudo master. It´s great that he made it clear who he is, but why should i care about the conclave master? Did he do anything else to make me care? He is the referee for PvP. Wow, i am impressed. Especially because there is so much going on there.

11 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

And you're making a rather large leap to try and link me to your hypothetical guys. In fact it's what you claimed the guys would have unreasonably done, isn't it? Jumping off the deep end based on very limited interaction.... Maybe you should rethink that. 

Unreasonably? I experienced it myself. I don´t have to rethink anything here. And the ego of most guys can´t take anything that hurts it, so they act as if it never happened. Some are even trying to fool themselves and all around them into believing their twisted reality. I will not fall for such cheap tricks.

11 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

"During the quests you can hear some voices in the background who are mumbling about something you don´t really understand or care anyway, because you are too busy shooting things, looking for loot, enjoying the scenery or missing context to fully understand what they are talking about."

I said "you", not "I". YOU Interpreted it the way YOU think without actually reading what I have written. Read between the lines. I thought common sense is all about reading between the lines.

11 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

"My operator acted as if she was a student of Teshin or something, Like they have known each other for a long time and had more than just a simple relation. I was just thinking: Did I miss or skipped something?" 

You know what future and past is? I said that this was my FIRST experience with the storytelling. That was the past. I am surprised that you did not notice that. It is common sense.

11 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

"I think i could get to this quest without ever going to the relay or playing conclave, so i would also never meet Teshin." 

I said: "I could", that does not mean "I did". I guess English is not your native language as well...

Anyway, let´s just agree that we don´t agree. I noticed an extreme persistence in your writing style. No matter what I say or do, you will always disagree by default and answer with long replies which are leaving everything out what was inconvenient for you in my previous replies. This conversation leads nowhere.

 

11 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Good luck with your exams. 👍

Thank you 👍. Have a great Christmas time.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

4 hours ago, (PS4)Tara-The-Tigress said:

Darth Vader was not standing on a relay the whole time.

Oh that's because he wasn't in Warframe. Two different stories you see. And last I checked, Teshin wasn't actually our plot-twist father, just one of the masters who help shape us. 

Sort of like how Luke hadn't really met master Kenobi before and went haring off across the galaxy, doing his bidding and killing people just because he told us too. 

4 hours ago, (PS4)Tara-The-Tigress said:

And as I already mentioned: how can you proof something with so little content? More than half of your common sense is just a theory, because all you know about Teshin is his “role”.

Are you sure it's not a case of not being able to disprove it? Because while the little information we have is an issue, it supports what I said. Your only support is "he didn't talk to me enough before I met him because I mostly ignored him before I realised that he might have a role to play in my story". Which isn't even common sense, if you think about it. 😁

4 hours ago, (PS4)Tara-The-Tigress said:

I said "you", not "I". YOU Interpreted it the way YOU think without actually reading what I have written. Read between the lines. I thought common sense is all about reading between the lines.

So you were claiming that I didn't pay attention and that's why YOU are having issues knowing who Teshin was and why you would listen to him? 😐 Nah that'd make no sense at all, not even common sense. 

4 hours ago, (PS4)Tara-The-Tigress said:

Unreasonably? I experienced it myself. I don´t have to rethink anything here. And the ego of most guys can´t take anything that hurts it, so they act as if it never happened. Some are even trying to fool themselves and all around them into believing their twisted reality. I will not fall for such cheap tricks.

Ahhhh, but not from me, you see? So yes, trying to paint me with the same brush is a bit unreasonable, you see? In fact, just trying to lump me with them is an attempt to convince yourself of a twisted version of reality. 

 

4 hours ago, (PS4)Tara-The-Tigress said:

You know what future and past is? I said that this was my FIRST experience with the storytelling. That was the past. I am surprised that you did not notice that. It is common sense.

Oh yes, but it is a part of the answer to the question that you asked. Teshin should have been known to you. 

4 hours ago, (PS4)Tara-The-Tigress said:

I said: "I could", that does not mean "I did". I guess English is not your native language as well...

I gave you the benefit of the doubt, because if I read it as "could have not met him in the relay and therefore I may have a legitimate reason for not remembering him" it's still a lot better than "yeah I met him, but generally ignored him the way that I believe others totally ignored all of the in game voices that keep telling us things while we're busy with missions, and that's the only reason I have for not knowing who he was, and would rather pass the blame for that to the "lack of storytelling" rather than the "lack of attention". I suppose I shouldn't have done that? 

5 hours ago, (PS4)Tara-The-Tigress said:

Anyway, let´s just agree that we don´t agree.

Up to you. 🙂

5 hours ago, (PS4)Tara-The-Tigress said:

I noticed an extreme persistence in your writing style. No matter what I say or do, you will always disagree by default and answer with long replies which are leaving everything out what was inconvenient for you in my previous replies. This conversation leads nowhere.

😧

And here I was going for "didactic". And there are lots of things that you could do or say that I would be happy to agree with, sadly you've not really done any of it. 

 

And regarding what I leave out, you'll probably notice that they're generally examples of stuff not involving warframe, that you noticed you liked or didn't like and felt like adding it to the conversation. Half of the stuff is well outside of my baliwick, so I don't have views on them. They're also not really relevant to the conversation from my point of view, so I didn't bother to respond to most of it. 🙂

5 hours ago, (PS4)Tara-The-Tigress said:

 Thank you 👍. Have a great Christmas time.

You too. 

(Of course I should be out shopping, but I'm very tired, and trying to catch my breath before jumping back into the stream.)

[(PSN)Tara-The-Tigress]

1 hour ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

And regarding what I leave out, you'll probably notice that they're generally examples of stuff not involving warframe, that you noticed you liked or didn't like and felt like adding it to the conversation. Half of the stuff is well outside of my baliwick, so I don't have views on them. They're also not really relevant to the conversation from my point of view, so I didn't bother to respond to most of it. 🙂

ok, I see, Warframe is your entire world. Nothing can be compared to it, because nothing outside of it seems to exist for you.

Geez… you clearly have too much time for stuff like this. I will not even bother to reply to everything you have written again. I already said everything that had to be said. Enjoy your last word. I don´t even care anymore.

6 hours ago, (PS4)Tara-The-Tigress said:

Anyway, let´s just agree that we don´t agree. I noticed an extreme persistence in your writing style. No matter what I say or do, you will always disagree by default and answer with long replies which are leaving everything out what was inconvenient for you in my previous replies. This conversation leads nowhere.

And thanks for proofing me right. Bye.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

53 minutes ago, (PS4)Tara-The-Tigress said:

ok, I see, Warframe is your entire world. Nothing can be compared to it, because nothing outside of it seems to exist for you.

Geez… you clearly have too much time for stuff like this. I will not even bother to reply to everything you have written again. I already said everything that had to be said. Enjoy your last word. I don´t even care anymore.

Would you have liked me to toss out random things connected to parasitology which have a tangential connection to what we're discussing because it's something that I know about outside of warframe and has multiple minor appearances in the game we play? Or would you at best, simply thought "cool story bro, but nothing to do with the matter under discussion", and ignored my ramblings? 

And you see, that's what happens when two people share a common interest. Their other interests may not overlap, and that's fine. Insisting that I should have agreed with you on all things, and shared all of your views on random bits of current pop media, is probably something that those guys you spoke about would do to you. Don't be like them. 

1 hour ago, (PS4)Tara-The-Tigress said:

And thanks for proofing me right. Bye.

I wish I had. But since all of that shade got tossed in at the end after the "let's just agree to disagree", I figured that you'd already realised that I would notice. 

But hey, whatever floats your k-drive. 😁

[(NSW)GuessWho]

I’d say we need to add more quests at the beginning. For instance, when you go to Venus, what is the Jackal? He’s just a boss with no backstory explained to new players. Add a quest that builds up the Jackal. Same for Lech Kril on Mars. Who is he? Bosses are just stronger enemies for the most part with no story.

[(PSN)Tara-The-Tigress]

On 2018-12-23 at 9:17 PM, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Would you have liked me to toss out random things connected to parasitology which have a tangential connection to what we're discussing because it's something that I know about outside of warframe and has multiple minor appearances in the game we play? Or would you at best, simply thought "cool story bro, but nothing to do with the matter under discussion", and ignored my ramblings? 

Ohhh, trying to sound smart? 😂 I compared movies and other games to warframes storytelling. A movie tells its story in scenes and a game has cutscenes or characters who interact with you, so it is definitely comparable. Your parasitic friends have no connection at all. Not tangential, your comparison is tending to infinity, but will never even touch the subject.

On 2018-12-23 at 9:17 PM, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

And you see, that's what happens when two people share a common interest. Their other interests may not overlap, and that's fine. Insisting that I should have agreed with you on all things, and shared all of your views on random bits of current pop media, is probably something that those guys you spoke about would do to you. Don't be like them. 

You did not toss out one thing besides Warframe. You compared nothing to Warframes storytelling. In fact, you showed no other interests at all. And when did I INSIST that you should agree with me? /:I Did I forced my opinion on you?! Show me!

On 2018-12-23 at 9:17 PM, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

I wish I had. But since all of that shade got tossed in at the end after the "let's just agree to disagree", I figured that you'd already realised that I would notice. 

But hey, whatever floats your k-drive. 😁

Notice what? That you can´t even agree to disagree? Yes, I noticed that. And thanks for proofing me right again.

Anyway, the best thing to handle guys like you is to simply ignore you, because your only goal is to start an argument to push your own ego. Your rhetorical level is not as good as you think it is. And don´t worry, my K-Drive does not care about floating guys full of hot air. Have fun, because from now on:
Tara-The-Tigress is ignoring you.

[(PSN)Tara-The-Tigress]

On 2018-12-23 at 9:24 PM, (NSW)GuessWho said:

I’d say we need to add more quests at the beginning. For instance, when you go to Venus, what is the Jackal? He’s just a boss with no backstory explained to new players. Add a quest that builds up the Jackal. Same for Lech Kril on Mars. Who is he? Bosses are just stronger enemies for the most part with no story.

Good point, i was thinking the same! 🙂

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Tara-The-Tigress said:

Ohhh, trying to sound smart? 😂 I compared movies and other games to warframes storytelling. A movie tells its story in scenes and a game has cutscenes or characters who interact with you, so it is definitely comparable. Your parasitic friends have no connection at all. Not tangential, your comparison is tending to infinity, but will never even touch the subject.

Ascaris is one of the first things that you have to deal with. 

Helminth is a major plot point. 

Kala-azar is a place you visit. 

Pretty sure that there were other references but I'm not able to check right now. So, I am afraid that you missed all of those, as well as Teshin Dax. That's probably what gave you the reason to start the thread, not a lack of adequate storytelling, just missing (or ignoring) the relevant points. 

1 hour ago, (PS4)Tara-The-Tigress said:

You did not toss out one thing besides Warframe. You compared nothing to Warframes storytelling. In fact, you showed no other interests at all. And when did I INSIST that you should agree with me? /:I Did I forced my opinion on you?! Show me!

That's because I was trying to stick to the topic. As shown above I could have, as there's a leitmotif that you clearly missed, but it wasn't germane to our conversation so I didn't. I didn't feel the need to try and fit other totally unrelated things into the conversation, and that's fine. You did, and I was fine with that too. But you seem to want all of the storytelling to be as needlessly convoluted as your posts. Like I said fairly early on, not everyone tells stories like that. And that's fine. 

And you can glance up at your previous posts for the proof you claim to want. 

1 hour ago, (PS4)Tara-The-Tigress said:

Notice what? That you can´t even agree to disagree? Yes, I noticed that. And thanks for proofing me right again.

Oh but I did. In firm but polite terms. (And without all of the shade.) 

1 hour ago, (PS4)Tara-The-Tigress said:

Anyway, the best thing to handle guys like you is to simply ignore you, because your only goal is to start an argument to push your own ego. Your rhetorical level is not as good as you think it is. And don´t worry, my K-Drive does not care about floating guys full of hot air. Have fun, because from now on:
Tara-The-Tigress is ignoring you.

I'm pretty sure that you think that should bother me. I can't figure out why though. 

Maybe Teshin, the worms and any other assorted plot devices you decided to skip over, will keep me company. 😁

[(PSN)Tara-The-Tigress]

On 2019-01-24 at 11:57 PM, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Pretty sure that there were other references but I'm not able to check right now. So, I am afraid that you missed all of those, as well as Teshin Dax. That's probably what gave you the reason to start the thread, not a lack of adequate storytelling, just missing (or ignoring) the relevant points. 

Hahaha! That guy is acting so educated and does not even know the difference between story elements and storytelling! XD
If I give him all the parts that are needed to build a plain, he thinks he has a fully functional plain. :´D I would really like to see how he is trying to fly with them, maybe his hot air propulsion system will save him from hitting the ground. 😂

Edited February 7, 2019 by (PS4)Tara-The-Tigress

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

43 minutes ago, (PS4)Tara-The-Tigress said:

Hahaha! That guy is acting so educated and does not even know the difference between story elements and storytelling! XD
If I give him all the parts that are needed to build a plain, he thinks he has a fully functional plain. :´D I would really like to see how he is trying to fly with them, maybe his hot air propulsion system will save him from hitting the ground. 😂

Does this strategy normally work well for you? 

I'm really not seeing how you figure that this makes sense. At the very least it shows that your previously proclaimed strategy didn't work:

On 2019-01-24 at 4:56 PM, (PS4)Tara-The-Tigress said:

Anyway, the best thing to handle guys like you is to simply ignore you, because your only goal is to start an argument to push your own ego. Your rhetorical level is not as good as you think it is. And don´t worry, my K-Drive does not care about floating guys full of hot air. Have fun, because from now on:
Tara-The-Tigress is ignoring you.

 

 

Go back through my posts and see the difference between how I've responded to you and what you have been trying to do. 

 

Like I said from the very beginning, you seem to prefer a very roundabout mode of communication. That's fine. But not everyone needs or wants that. You admitted that you didn't really know who Teshin was prior to the quest (then backtracked and seemed to have said that of course you knew), but that's not the game's fault.

You used examples to show that character development is needed for a good story (Darth Vader), but failed to draw the parallel to the fact that Luke (the student archetype) obeyed Ben Kenobi (the master archetype) immediately after meeting him for the first time in the same film franchise. Did you miss out on that part of the films? I don't know, but it seems possible at this stage. 

 

I have tried to stay civil and discuss the topic with you, despite your posts. You said that you were going to ignore my future posts, but well that didn't turn out to be the case. Let me show you how that's actually done. 

Pay very close attention to how you get ignored after this point. 

[(PSN)Tara-The-Tigress]

On 2019-02-07 at 2:21 PM, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Does this strategy normally work well for you? 

I'm really not seeing how you figure that this makes sense. At the very least it shows that your previously proclaimed strategy didn't work:

Every strategy worked very well so far! All he was able to reply was a question which should hide his own lack of knowledge.

Instead of just asking what the difference between story elements and storytelling is, he decided to try one of the most pathetic distraction I have ever seen 😂:

On 2019-02-07 at 2:21 PM, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Does this strategy normally work well for you? 

Things that are mentioned in a story and actual storytelling that binds all those things together are NOT one and the same. That is also why all the parts of a plane will never fly without correct construction.

On 2019-02-07 at 2:21 PM, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Go back through my posts and see the difference between how I've responded to you and what you have been trying to do. 

What have I been trying to do? The difference is that I replied to everything and he left everything out what was unpleasant for him or to what he simply was unable to reply. The only reason why he continued to reply was his hurt ego. The fact that he did not have a good answer to parts of my comments was something he could not live with.

On 2019-02-07 at 2:21 PM, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Like I said from the very beginning, you seem to prefer a very roundabout mode of communication. That's fine. But not everyone needs or wants that. You admitted that you didn't really know who Teshin was prior to the quest (then backtracked and seemed to have said that of course you knew), but that's not the game's fault.

His biggest argument is also the most irrelevant of all.

“Oh, look, she does not know who Teshin is. That must be the whole reason why she made this topic.” Seriously? What kind of stupid conclusion is that? I knew who Teshin was prior to the quest, I already proofed that multiple times, but what I did not understand is why he acted like a close long known friend. There is absolutely nothing that build up his character. No conversations, no interactions, just nothing! All we know is his role. This is not storytelling!

On 2019-02-07 at 2:21 PM, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

You used examples to show that character development is needed for a good story (Darth Vader), but failed to draw the parallel to the fact that Luke (the student archetype) obeyed Ben Kenobi (the master archetype) immediately after meeting him for the first time in the same film franchise. Did you miss out on that part of the films? I don't know, but it seems possible at this stage. 

He obeyed him immediately, yes, this is true, but they did not act as if they knew each other for a long time right from the start like Teshin did. Many scenes in which Luke interacted with Ben made him so important to the plot. Teshin is just staying on a relay the whole time and has ZERO memorable interaction with the operator prior to the Queen quest.

On 2019-02-07 at 2:21 PM, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Pay very close attention to how you get ignored after this point.  

Finally! The best strategy to stop a troll or forum zombie from writing is using himself. Bravo! 👍