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- DE - When will the level of the enemies follow the power of the weapons

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The thing is, enemies scale in HP and we do not.

In order to make enemies that have enough HP to not die trivially on contact with the Tenno, they have to be of such high level that they in turn trivially kill us, leading to abusive strategies where the player is forced to be permanently invulnerable/invisible or the enemies permanently CCed, in order to not die in one hit. Increasing enemy levels will NOT make a better game.

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vor 22 Stunden schrieb zornyan:

NOX, perfect sentiment of challenge.

requires targeting a weak point, can cause knockdowns if you’re careless, far more tanky than normal enemies without hitting weakspot, deals good damage too.

[...]

The smaller orbs in fortuna are a better idea, couple stages to deal with, multiple different moves etc.

I agree that Nox design is pretty good. Still, even Noxes can be affected by all kinds of abilities, so with some CC they are no threat aswell.

 

Considering the Orbs: I also agree that their design is pretty good. The funny thing is that they are also some kind of "nullifier" if you want to call it like that.

Because they are immun to lots of abilities (didnt test everything myself yet, but it seems like they are not affected by alot of Warframe abilities).

 

So, when i said "it has to be done with nullifiers", i didnt mean that all enemies need to have a huge blue bubble around them that shuts down all abilities and is immune to everything but weapon damage. But imagine these Orbs could be targeted by all of our abilities, then the different stages and moves you mentioned wouldnt matter at all.

 

In a way, they are a better version of Nullifiers, and if different enemys would be immune to different abilities, this might be a great approach to create fun and challenging enemies and gameplay. It should be kept simple more or less so the player doesnt have to remember which of his abilities works on which of the hundreds of different enemies.

But it could be like this:

 

- charger units that only have short range attacks cant be affected by AoE-CC abilities

- Heavy Units like Bombards cant be targeted by AoE-Dmg abilities

- Imo this would create a really nice coop experience because each player would be most effective against different types of enemies.

Spoiler

We could even take this a step further and include mechanics like "enraging enemies". What i mean is:

- if we pull off a huge CC-Ability most of the enemies will simply get crowd controlled

- but there could be certain enemies that get "enraged" when they are under the effect, which means instead of them becoming CC'd, they become angry and start to charge you (like the Nox for example) or whatever might be fitting for that enemy.

- a charger unit that gets targeted by an Dmg-ability for example might go "hell no! you aint gonna shot me!!!" and becomes a little like a maniac that can move faster and dodges the Abilities Dmg, so he has to get taken care of differently (either CC him, or kill him with weapons, to balance it out he could become even more vulnerable to normal weapon damage so while he is faster and does more damage, he also dies faster to weapon damage)

- in case of AoE-CC abilities, this would mean that we have to be a little more thoughtful on how or when to use them. We can still get the benefit of shutting down 90% of the enemies, but then we have to deal with that one enemy that gets stronger by this.

 

That way, all of our abilities will always have a purpose and can always be used, but we will never end up with a scenario in which we simply wipe out a whole room with just one ability or CC a whole room and dont need to care about anything anymore. Still, the enemies wont be as "annoying" as the regular nullifiers because none of them will instantly shut down all of our abilities while each of them always is vulnerable against something.

Edited by DreisterDino

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Raising enemy levels isn't difficulty.  The stratagem just turns to one of CCing them to avoid getting shot, and taking longer to kill them in turn as they stand there eating ammo.  Realistically, we wouldn't be able to run most missions past level 100 enemies without our powers.  They simply do too much damage.  People only THINK they want tougher content because they want to see bigger damage numbers, but for a fact without special rewards One can't get anywhere else, the novelty of extra-high level enemies will quickly wear off as the vast majority of players are reward driven, not game play driven.  If One can not legit find fun in killing mooks for the sake of killing mooks, and refuses to downgrade from their META to something that allows those mooks to be a danger, they're not going to stick around for anything that takes a ton of rounds to kill on the regular.  Not without a carrot.

Thus, the best way to increase the challenge is to throw in mechanics that force the players to switch up tactics.  Nullifiers haven't been touched despite the outcry because they accomplish exactly this.  Ancients still exist because they force the players to either move from their position to get an angle, wait for it to expose itself, or simply try to power through the damage mitigation (level 200+ enemies in an instant without the instagib damage to go with it... and people hate the effect, so why are they clamoring for high level star chart again?)

Basically, if an enemy is pissing players off, whatever it's doing is working, DE just needs to watch the stats to see if the thing is too successful or just another speed bump for the players to deal with.  Enemies like the Nox are nice... in a game without crowd control, but Warframe has CC, so they're really just another easily dispatched fodder enemy that requires some repositioning to dispatch quickly.  Until the Nox is given CC immunity or somehow becomes uniquely more dangerous in some way when CCed (or depending on the CC,) it's the kind of challenge players want in their Warframe, but outside of individuals/a group being adamant about using powers, it's a challenge that doesn't actually work in Warframe.

Edited by Littleman88
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