No scope option for sniper rifles and generally weapons that use scopes

[Artekkor]

One of the reason why i generally dislike using sniper rifles is that i really don't like the scopes. And i dont mean that i dislike the zoom - i mean that it hides the character (and most importantly - weapon) model.

I unironically love the design of some sniper rifles and want to see them as often and close as possible.
However i run into 2 combined problems: sniper rifles have accuracy of a shotgun when not aimed > which forces you to aim > which causes scope > which causes you to not see your character and weapon.

We already have an option to switch between uniquelly styled sniper scopes or just zoomed camera, why not an option to just have a simplified zoom like on any other weapon?
This would also allow me to rebuild Arca Scisco, since the one thing that i really disliked about it (that caused me to sell it) was that i didn't liked it having the scope (which didn't provided any zoom btw, so i was just losing the ability to see my gun for no good reason).

Edited December 17, 2018 by Artek94

[BiancaRoughfin]

If it has no Scope, its not a Sniper, its just a Rifle. There are other weapons to play the Scopeless Rifle role if you want.

[Artekkor]

1 час назад, BiancaRoughfin сказал:

If it has no Scope, its not a Sniper, its just a Rifle. There are other weapons to play the Scopeless Rifle role if you want.

I didn't meant to turn off the scope as a mechanic, i meant turn it off as a visual. I dont care about the zoom, i just want the weapon model to be on my screen.
The game turns into a weird point-and-click simulator when i dont see what im shooting with.

[Peter]

5 hours ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

If it has no Scope, its not a Sniper, its just a Rifle. There are other weapons to play the Scopeless Rifle role if you want.

If you believe a sniper is defined by the scope then you need to learn more about the snipers.

[Ada_Wong_SG]

It is there, just that when the warframe is visible the scope will "erase" the warframe when zoomed in, 

Can we have a option that turning off the sniper scope in option will make it such that warframe model is not erased ?

 

 

For anyone trying to argue that this will take more effort, it is already in the game high zoom rifles like Latron basically has the same level zoom as a Vectis.

[Heidelgard]

The thing is ... a scoped sniper is meant to be used with the scope, otherwise the accuracy while shooting is quite poor.

If you want a scopeless sniper, first we need a sniper rifle with a built in iron sight, so it can be used in the way you mean.

I believe the Vectis could be the only one to be used scopeless, since it doesn't really have a scope, but I wouldn't change it now cuz players are used to firing it with a scope.

So I'd suggest adding a new sniper rifle, based on iron sight, and in the meantime, the best thing you can do is using Tiberon Prime with semi auto fire mode.

[SordidDreams]

16 hours ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

If it has no Scope, its not a Sniper, its just a Rifle. There are other weapons to play the Scopeless Rifle role if you want.

Simo Häyhä woulkd like a word.

[Bipp]

I just want all the extra moving clutter and nonsense in sniper scopes to go. It looks awful.

 

[Ada_Wong_SG]

5 hours ago, Heidelgard said:

The thing is ... a scoped sniper is meant to be used with the scope, otherwise the accuracy while shooting is quite poor.

If you want a scopeless sniper, first we need a sniper rifle with a built in iron sight, so it can be used in the way you mean.

I believe the Vectis could be the only one to be used scopeless, since it doesn't really have a scope, but I wouldn't change it now cuz players are used to firing it with a scope.

So I'd suggest adding a new sniper rifle, based on iron sight, and in the meantime, the best thing you can do is using Tiberon Prime with semi auto fire mode.

I suppose the stopping power between a Vectis Prime and Tiberon Prime is that 
a Vectis Prime is capable of dropping a level 125 corrupted bombard with 1 shot, 
while Tiberon Prime need 5 - 10 shots to do the same, both with very similar build.

There is currently option to disable the sniper scope UI on the screen and zoomed in will still see normal crosshair, 
I would suggest this "no scope UI" will also make the rifle visible.

And scope or no scope I guess little to do with actual functional mechanic, since 
warframes does not have eye and the scope is kind of said to be aimed with "transference" interface 
so it is like a go-pro on the rifle or something.

Even without the scope UI the aimed shot will still be dead on.
 

[Heidelgard]

1 hour ago, Ada_Wong_SG said:

I suppose the stopping power between a Vectis Prime and Tiberon Prime is that 
a Vectis Prime is capable of dropping a level 125 corrupted bombard with 1 shot, 
while Tiberon Prime need 5 - 10 shots to do the same, both with very similar build.

There is currently option to disable the sniper scope UI on the screen and zoomed in will still see normal crosshair, 
I would suggest this "no scope UI" will also make the rifle visible.

And scope or no scope I guess little to do with actual functional mechanic, since 
warframes does not have eye and the scope is kind of said to be aimed with "transference" interface 
so it is like a go-pro on the rifle or something.

Even without the scope UI the aimed shot will still be dead on.
 

Tiberon was the first rifle that I thought that can "imitate" the function of a scopeless sniper, of course it won't work as well as a real sniper, just for the fact that it's not a sniper, the best that I have reached is killing lv 115 heavy grineer with 2 burst headshots.

Also I believe every warframe have some kind of sensors/visors/cameras located on the helmet, and to actually zoom in they need the scope, so the operator can see throw the "eyes" of the warframe that are seeing through the scope of the gun. But zoom aside, with a scoped gun, if you won't use the scope you have to kinda guess where you're shooting, that's why the low accuracy, and with a scopeless gun you can rely on the iron sight and shoot in the classic way of most warframe rifles.

[Ada_Wong_SG]

2 hours ago, Heidelgard said:

Tiberon was the first rifle that I thought that can "imitate" the function of a scopeless sniper, of course it won't work as well as a real sniper, just for the fact that it's not a sniper, the best that I have reached is killing lv 115 heavy grineer with 2 burst headshots.

Also I believe every warframe have some kind of sensors/visors/cameras located on the helmet, and to actually zoom in they need the scope, so the operator can see throw the "eyes" of the warframe that are seeing through the scope of the gun. But zoom aside, with a scoped gun, if you won't use the scope you have to kinda guess where you're shooting, that's why the low accuracy, and with a scopeless gun you can rely on the iron sight and shoot in the classic way of most warframe rifles.

I suppose "ironsights" is accurate, because it seems like Tiberon Prime (semi auto), Latron Family, Grinlok all relies on accuracy to pick off targets
since a warframe is capable of aiming those without using a scope.

A sniper rifle would not need a "scope" or the warframe can choose not to aim using the scope with the scope option off, 
just not going to get as much zoom when aiming and totally missing out on the combo counter.

All the assault rifles do not appear to have proper ironsights to even suggest the warframe need an ironsight to shoot straight.
so the "no scope option" is simply aiming a sniper rifle like assault rifles.

some sniper rifles does have backup ironsights.

 

 

The thing about sniper rifles being "scope only" is on earlier day scope technology, with fixed scope and no tactical rail, 
kind of the WW2 thing that there is no way to use the ironsight when the scope is mounted, more modern rifles have flip down backup ironsights
that can be used when a scope is removed.

 

Edited December 18, 2018 by Ada_Wong_SG

[Heidelgard]

7 minutes ago, Ada_Wong_SG said:

I suppose "ironsights" is accurate, because it seems like Tiberon Prime (semi auto), Latron Family, Grinlok all relies on accuracy to pick off targets
since a warframe is capable of aiming those without using a scope.

A sniper rifle would not need a "scope" or the warframe can choose not to aim using the scope with the scope option off, 
just not going to get as much zoom when aiming and totally missing out on the combo counter.

All the assault rifles do not appear to have proper ironsights to even suggest the warframe need an ironsight to shoot straight.
so the "no scope option" is simply aiming a sniper rifle like assault rifles.

some sniper rifles does have backup ironsights.

I know some of the snipers have iron sight, if you read my first post I suggested to add a non scoped sniper rifle. That's cuz also many snipers don't have it, because they are meant only for scoped fire at long distance. Others have it, cuz you can attach and remove the scope.

Unfortunately there are some weapons like Sybaris, Tiberon, Braton, Supra, that have iron sights on top of the weapon, also a laser dot in case of Argonak.

So I would say, using those sights improves the accuracy.

Now to return to the problem of aiming scopeless with a scoped sniper, is that the scope is on the way and you cannot use the iron sight, unless you remove the scope of cuz, and that's why you have a poor accuracy and you have to guess where you shooting.

So, one last time, my idea is to add scopeless snipers to the available weapons. 

[Ada_Wong_SG]

1 hour ago, Heidelgard said:

I know some of the snipers have iron sight, if you read my first post I suggested to add a non scoped sniper rifle. That's cuz also many snipers don't have it, because they are meant only for scoped fire at long distance. Others have it, cuz you can attach and remove the scope.

Unfortunately there are some weapons like Sybaris, Tiberon, Braton, Supra, that have iron sights on top of the weapon, also a laser dot in case of Argonak.

So I would say, using those sights improves the accuracy.

Kindly enlighten me, Where is the sights on those weapons ?

Sybaris rear sight is the circular part of the receiver, it does not appear to have a V notch or ghost ring to facilitate aiming,
Tiberon hand guard would obscure the rear sight from the front leading to non-sight alignment
The old Braton model looks like a Famas, but the new one sights is kind of missing on the weapon.

Supra have a protrusion on top of the receiver, blocking the front sight post.

And for starter all Assault Rifles are dead accurate even when fired from hip.

so aiming are just to zoom in camera for better point and click, the gun is accurate without aiming.
 

1 hour ago, Ada_Wong_SG said:

All the assault rifles do not appear to have proper ironsights to even suggest the warframe need an ironsight to shoot straight.

 

1 hour ago, Heidelgard said:

I know some of the snipers have iron sight, if you read my first post I suggested to add a non scoped sniper rifle. That's cuz also many snipers don't have it, because they are meant only for scoped fire at long distance. Others have it, cuz you can attach and remove the scope.

Unfortunately there are some weapons like Sybaris, Tiberon, Braton, Supra, that have iron sights on top of the weapon, also a laser dot in case of Argonak.

So I would say, using those sights improves the accuracy.

Now to return to the problem of aiming scopeless with a scoped sniper, is that the scope is on the way and you cannot use the iron sight, unless you remove the scope of cuz, and that's why you have a poor accuracy and you have to guess where you shooting.

So, one last time, my idea is to add scopeless snipers to the available weapons. 

If you take out the scope, you will be left with the sights on a normal rifle, or basically 
the warframe can shoot the rifle like a Sybaris, Grinlok or Latron, dead accurate even when fired from hip

Now balance wise to bear in mind this would mean giving up scope counter bonus, the zoom level and sort of 
"downgrade" a sniper rifle to be used like regular rifles.

But in missions (especially not in open world like PoE and Fortuna), it is basically close quarter battles on planet nodes, 
the time you spent going from auto door to auto door is a lot, and range is not an issue,

the high zoom on sniper scopes become a liability to use in such situation,

however on high level missions it is sad that weapons like Tiberon, Sybaris etc are sometime unable to provide adequate stopping power.
at killing enemies with 1 - 2 shots.

Just so make it clear as well, OP is not asking for new rifle class that is basically scopeless snipers, 
simply asking for option to disable the scope feature on sniper rifles and use them as regular rifle.

Because keeping an inventory of 2 vectis requires 2 slots, 2 catalysts and multiple forma
if both are going to use the same build, now imagine that being a primed weapon will make it more troublesome.

Though it might be better to have "stances" on sniper rifles that is basically the "scope mod"
Things like infrared, scanner highlight, even nightvision scopes for night sniping on plains of eidolon, 
meaning a player can simply take out the "scope mod" and turn the sniper rifle into scopeless versions.
 

Edited December 18, 2018 by Ada_Wong_SG

[Heidelgard]

18 minutes ago, Ada_Wong_SG said:

Kindly enlighten me, Where is the sights on those weapons ?

Sybaris rear sight is the circular part of the receiver, it does not appear to have a V notch or ghost ring to facilitate aiming,
Tiberon hand guard would obscure the rear sight from the front leading to non-sight alignment
The old Braton model looks like a Famas, but the new one sights is kind of missing on the weapon.

Supra have a protrusion on top of the receiver, blocking the front sight post.

And for starter all Assault Rifles are dead accurate even when fired from hip.

so aiming are just to zoom in camera for better point and click, the gun is accurate without aiming.
 

 

If you take out the scope, you will be left with the sights on a normal rifle, or basically 
the warframe can shoot the rifle like a Sybaris, Grinlok or Latron, dead accurate even when fired from hip

Now balance wise to bear in mind this would mean giving up scope counter bonus, the zoom level and sort of 
"downgrade" a sniper rifle to be used like regular rifles.

But in missions (especially not in open world like PoE and Fortuna), it is basically close quarter battles on planet nodes, 
the time you spent going from auto door to auto door is a lot, and range is not an issue,

the high zoom on sniper scopes become a liability to use in such situation,

however on high level missions it is sad that weapons like Tiberon, Sybaris etc are sometime unable to provide adequate stopping power.
at killing enemies with 1 - 2 shots.

Just so make it clear as well, OP is not asking for new rifle class that is basically scopeless snipers, 
simply asking for option to disable the scope feature on sniper rifles and use them as regular rifle.

Because keeping an inventory of 2 vectis requires 2 slots, 2 catalysts and multiple forma
if both are going to use the same build, now imagine that being a primed weapon will make it more troublesome.

Though it might be better to have "stances" on sniper rifles that is basically the "scope mod"
Things like infrared, scanner highlight, even nightvision scopes for night sniping on plains of eidolon, 
meaning a player can simply take out the "scope mod" and turn the sniper rifle into scopeless versions.
 

Sorry but there's too much no sense and superficiality, I stopped reading midway.

I already tried to explain why in my opinion the idea of this topic is not possible, and I tried to give a possible alternative.

That's it, take it or ignore it, cuz I feel this could go on forever.

[Artekkor]

22 минуты назад, Heidelgard сказал:

Sorry but there's too much no sense and superficiality, I stopped reading midway.

I already tried to explain why in my opinion the idea of this topic is not possible, and I tried to give a possible alternative.

That's it, take it or ignore it, cuz I feel this could go on forever.

Im not sure if you understood the idea of this topic to begin with.
All i (the OP) was asking for is to see my sniper rifle on the screen when im firing it. Not to have my character (and gun) become invisible when i aim.
We already have an option to turn off the uniquelly designed scope interface replacing it with a simplistic zoom, only the character still gets obscured.

And all that while Latron Prime exists: a weapon with zoom to rival some of the snipers.

[Heidelgard]

3 minutes ago, Artek94 said:

Im not sure if you understood the idea of this topic to begin with.
All i (the OP) was asking for is to see my sniper rifle on the screen when im firing it. Not to have my character (and gun) become invisible when i aim.
We already have an option to turn off the uniquelly designed scope interface replacing it with a simplistic zoom, only the character still gets obscured.

And all that while Latron Prime exists: a weapon with zoom to rival some of the snipers.

So the main problem is that you still don't get why the weapon gets obscured then.

I tried to explain but it doesn't work, at this point I give up.

*disappearing with a smokescreen*

[Ada_Wong_SG]

9 hours ago, Heidelgard said:

Sorry but there's too much no sense and superficiality, I stopped reading midway.

I already tried to explain why in my opinion the idea of this topic is not possible, and I tried to give a possible alternative.

That's it, take it or ignore it, cuz I feel this could go on forever.

I suppose if you lack the patience to even try to figure out what the whole thread is about, or you simply couldn't comprehend what OP is asking for.

10 hours ago, Ada_Wong_SG said:

OP is not asking for new rifle class that is basically scopeless snipers, 
simply asking for option to disable the scope feature on sniper rifles and use them as regular rifle.

 

[Ada_Wong_SG]

9 hours ago, Heidelgard said:

So the main problem is that you still don't get why the weapon gets obscured then.

I tried to explain but it doesn't work, at this point I give up.

*disappearing with a smokescreen*

The "scope" mode with the UI is why the warframe and weapon is erased, to give a "first person"/ see-through-scope perspective.
When the scope UI is disabled in option, we are left with a crosshair but the warframe and weapon still gets erased.

As I have mentioned, weapons like Latron have high zoom has the weapon and warframe visible, 
simply asking for such option when disabling scope interface is that the warframe + weapon will remain visible while aiming, 
this make it more consistent from a third person shooter perspective.

Just so make it clear, my Ivara illustration does point out that even when scoped in, a sniper rifle is not really aiming from 
a "first person perspective" but still over-the-shoulder with the warframe and weapon erased to immitate/ simulate the effect of 
aiming through a scope.