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A step backwards with the Orb heists?


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Okay so I finished all of the bounties and I must say... I'm quite disappointed... The Orb fight itself was actually great, couldn't say it was hard, but at least it had some nice visuals and some new mechanics, however, the rewards ? WTF ? 
First of all what happened to the Fortuna style bounties ? I mean you got rewarded extra for doing optional things, now it's gone. The rewards ? Uhm... what's the point of doing the Orb fight all over if you can just grind "phase 2" for the same rewards basically, just the mod variation.  
However the biggest insult is probably the part where you finally kill the big ol' spider and you get..... yup that's right.... NOTHING! No drops at all.

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remember when Eidolons served no purpose in the beginning? Yeah probably the same thing here.

but then again as this is the second open world and the second time their doing something like this you’d figure DE would know to put the Orbs rewards at somewhere on the same level as current Eidolon drops.

Just hope it all works out, otherwise I’ll be ignoring the orb fights far more than I ignore the Eidolons.

Edited by (XB1)GearsMatrix301
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My issues with the orb fight:
Deploying the gun locks you into a long animation which can get you killed easily. If you die you can loose your arch gun and it goes on cooldown,

While your gun is on cooldown you can watch your friends have fun while you can wait around, clear trashmobs and press 4.

Wonky hitboxes on the orb mean weapons like the velocitus are at a disadvantage.

Sometimes the game wont let you unequip the arch gun.

Edit:Apparently you can reset the CD timer by picking up the heavy-ammo. Didnt stumble across this info in-game.

Edited by WiFiBuddha
Issue partly resolved
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They should just remove them as a requirement for the fight. Leave them as a bonus. The issue that i have personally is that i dont find arch missions fun so I dont want to waste forma or time or potatoes on them for 1 fight that I may not even enjoy. I have not had time to try the heists yet. And I really dont want to spend a week grinding old mate status either but thats my choice.

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FIrst and foremost my issues with this are "Hurry up and wait." You have to wait  For the DIalog to finish. EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. Wait to Zone out of Little Ducks room into Fortuna PRoper. Then you have to wait to zone out to the Vallis. Rinse and repeat.  WTB Skippable Dialog please.

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35 minutes ago, mrfluffydeath said:

FIrst and foremost my issues with this are "Hurry up and wait." You have to wait  For the DIalog to finish. EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. Wait to Zone out of Little Ducks room into Fortuna PRoper. Then you have to wait to zone out to the Vallis. Rinse and repeat.  WTB Skippable Dialog please.

This yes soo much yes. I appreciate the work they put into it but god i nearly quit the solaris intro and said #*!% fortuna because it just went on and on

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6 hours ago, Datam4ss said:

The final part being timed was just terrible, thanks to the Archgun cooldown.

The timer at the end is the worst, especially if you're solo like I was. I spent half an hour softening the orb up, trying not to get fried, and I fail at the last minute because I suddenly had only five minutes to take it down and it just sat there with its shield attuning to damage types I don't have available. Great. It had actually been pretty fun up to that point too. Felt like a big middle finger in my face for my effort.

Edit: Turns out you can force it to change its shield attuning by hitting it with Void damage from Operator amps. Time to try again I guess.

Edited by JavaMan
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1 hour ago, JavaMan said:

The timer at the end is the worst, especially if you're solo like I was. I spent half an hour softening the orb up, trying not to get fried, and I fail at the last minute because I suddenly had only five minutes to take it down and it just sat there with its shield attuning to damage types I don't have available. Great. It had actually been pretty fun up to that point too. Felt like a big middle finger in my face for my effort.

Edit: Turns out you can force it to change its shield attuning by hitting it with Void damage from Operator amps. Time to try again I guess.

Not to mention the shield mechanic of the orb is "Prosecutors 1.0" but made it even worse as it cycles continuosely between random damage types, so you are basically bound to wait until the thing feels like taking damage from a weapon either you or some teammate of yours have equipped.

Invuln phases are bad enough, having an RNG and a time limit attached to it is even worse, did DE learn ANYTHING from the prosecutrs and people complaining about invuln phases as a whole ?

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I just want to hit them with my sword.  I don't care about anything else.  If I can't hit an enemy with my sword, then I have no reason to fight it.  I don't give a damn what the threat is, how dangerous it is, or if it's going to go on a murder rampage at the orphanage.  If I can't hit it with my sword, then you need to find someone else for the job.  Just let me hit those  spiders with my sword.

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3 minutes ago, Beas7ie said:

I just want to hit them with my sword.  I don't care about anything else.  If I can't hit an enemy with my sword, then I have no reason to fight it.  I don't give a damn what the threat is, how dangerous it is, or if it's going to go on a murder rampage at the orphanage.  If I can't hit it with my sword, then you need to find someone else for the job.  Just let me hit those  spiders with my sword.

The lack of melee support for significant encounters is, frankly, quite appalling.

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Ranged boss-fight bias is a common problem in all kinds of games like this. Ironic for warframe, given the mechanics and focus on melee combat. 

It would be easier to forgive if there were some fights where you could only melee.

Edited by xX-Kuro-Xx
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10 minutes ago, DiabolusUrsus said:

The lack of melee support for significant encounters is, frankly, quite appalling.

Nothing is more satisfying than stabbing the great mastodon/dragon in the eye and delivering the death blow to the head.

I’ll take an eye since the oversized ticks are all head not so fun.

Pity they can’t think of other take down methods than BFI

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Given that the Teralyst originally dropped nothing substantial (not even able to convert shards to Focus at first) I hope that there will be more substantial rewards added late.

Honestly I wouldn't blame DE for not putting the juicy rewards in at first just in case we found some exploit to super-farm Orb Mothers.

 

I'll remain optimistic until we have the full trio.

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26 minutes ago, DrBorris said:

Given that the Teralyst originally dropped nothing substantial (not even able to convert shards to Focus at first) I hope that there will be more substantial rewards added late.

Honestly I wouldn't blame DE for not putting the juicy rewards in at first just in case we found some exploit to super-farm Orb Mothers.

 

I'll remain optimistic until we have the full trio.

If we could skip all that dialogue, DE would learn about potential exploits a lot quicker. At this point, a number of us have decided it isn't worth plowing through until that is resolved.

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7 hours ago, WiFiBuddha said:

My issues with the orb fight:
Deploying the gun locks you into a long animation which can get you killed easily. If you die you can loose your arch gun and it goes on cooldown,

While your gun is on cooldown you can watch your friends have fun while you can wait around, clear trashmobs and press 4.

Wonky hitboxes on the orb mean weapons like the velocitus are at a disadvantage.

Sometimes the game wont let you unequip the arch gun.

Edit:Apparently you can reset the CD timer by picking up the heavy-ammo. Didnt stumble across this info in-game.

yes, the animation is painfull and slowwwwwwwwww. the timer should be at max 5 min. 10 is too much.

 

and hell, the new boss dont even give arcanes? wtf?

 

personally I used velocitus at the boss, it was easy to hit the legs. and the ammo economy is great.

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I'd think something that big would drop a ton of Circuits, Alloy, Salvage, even some Fieldron Samples.

But a stupid Toroid that gives 6k standing to Vox Solaris? And a Sigil? That's IT?

That's insulting. Especially given two things:

1. The grind needed to be able to get the privilege of fighting the damn thing and...

2. The time and effort needed to bring the thing down.

As much as I hate Eidelons, at least they drop lots of useful items. I'm not fighting something that can possibly curb-stomp me in a heartbeat without getting some decent rewards for my troubles.

Until that drop table improves massively and there's some actual good that comes out of killing the thing, all I have to say is "Hey Solaris, YOU fight that thing. I'll be wiping out a company's worth of goons for you in the meantime."

Yeah I know - some of you are going to say "But the CHALLENGE of fighting something that big!" You got something to prove? Be my guest. In the meantime, I'll be hitting Nef Anyo where it hurts the most - right in the finances (and manpower and resources)!

The Orbs aren't even real threats to Fortuna, which is mostly underground. At any rate, all the Orbs do is perform guard duty...and that's it.

4 hours ago, Otakuwolf said:

did DE learn ANYTHING from the prosecutrs and people complaining about invuln phases as a whole ?

That would seem to be a big nope.

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Whenever Scott did the interview with Tactical Potato, I lost most of my expectations for this. When it released, spent 30 minutes and multiple attempts even on the third bounty. Had no idea what to do, sure I tried to solo the Orb but same issue as always. Solo spawns are garbage and I actually had to wait for the 10 minute cooldown or die with the archgun out before I ran out of ammo to use it more. Got bored of being bounced around like a pinball, dying while getting the Archgun out and it just not being fun. At least with the Teralyst when I quit being stubborn and tried it, it took around 30 minutes to capture it, but it was fun and kept me on the edge of my chair.

With the Orb fight, it was a lot of deep exhales and smacking my enter key when I had to revive myself out of frustration. I quit doing Vox Solaris after 3 hours of failing to get a common drop.. not sure what I disliked more. The cutscenes I had to listen to after extraction, the bit from killing the 2nd dude to the end, basically keeps going and I can't choose the mission again to try again until it finishes. I don't want Baruuk or the new amp stuff bad enough now to keep doing it. Maybe in a few months I'll try again.

I think out of the entire update I'm more excited about the new hair and more floofs and frustrated with the rest of the stuff.

I appreciate the time it took to do everything but the more that comes out with Fortuna the more I like PoE more.

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3 hours ago, MirageKnight said:

I'd think something that big would drop a ton of Circuits, Alloy, Salvage, even some Fieldron Samples.

But a stupid Toroid that gives 6k standing to Vox Solaris? And a Sigil? That's IT?

That's insulting. Especially given two things:

1. The grind needed to be able to get the privilege of fighting the damn thing and...

2. The time and effort needed to bring the thing down.

As much as I hate Eidelons, at least they drop lots of useful items. I'm not fighting something that can possibly curb-stomp me in a heartbeat without getting some decent rewards for my troubles.

Until that drop table improves massively and there's some actual good that comes out of killing the thing, all I have to say is "Hey Solaris, YOU fight that thing. I'll be wiping out a company's worth of goons for you in the meantime."

 

Wow, sounds like I'll be doing the same thing, then, until they fix this up.

3 hours ago, MirageKnight said:

In the meantime, I'll be hitting Nef Anyo where it hurts the most - right in the finances (and manpower and resources)! 

 
 

make-it-rain.jpg

Edited by Mach25
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12 hours ago, DiabolusUrsus said:

The lack of melee support for significant encounters is, frankly, quite appalling.

Agreed. It's clear that pretty much the entirety of Warframe's combat is designed and balanced around guns, with practically every boss and even some basic units, like the Nox, rendering melee combat against them either impossible or unreasonably clunky. I highly doubt Melee 3.0 will fix this, and I feel that issue will only dampen the melee rework, as melee combat will continue to be limited to mostly just cleaving through rooms of cannon fodder enemies. It is currently perfectly possible to run the entirety of the game without a melee weapon, but impossible to run the whole game without the use of guns, which I think is a shame.

It's not like video games haven't set a precedent for melee combat in boss fights, either: Shadow of the Colossus gives a perfect example of how players could take on enemies far larger than themselves with a simple sword and still win, and Warframe itself is no stranger to the concept of weak points. Something as simple as adding a large damage multiplier when using a melee attack on, say, an Eidolon synovia, or some weak spot on the Profit-Taker, could make melee combat viable and skill-expressive, particularly since melee combat presents the awesome opportunity to make players get incredibly close to deadly opponents for high-risk, high-reward play. Beyond that, there's likely a lot of design work to be done, particularly with respect to invincibility, damage caps, and certain hitboxes.

On the main topic of orb heists, I also completely agree that the rewards feel like a step backwards: the missions are presented as bounties, and have bounty rewards, but only give these bounties once, and don't even have the bonus objectives we have in the main Fortuna bounties. I really don't see a reason why this should be the case, particularly since implementing genuinely difficult challenges could have been the perfect opportunity to organically implement a "heroic mode" to the Profit-Taker bounties, with appropriate rewards. I don't think the current setup for Orb Heists is going to stay the same forever, and I hope DE goes back and brings the reward system up to Fortuna's standards, rather than on-release PoE's.

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