What do u think about the new corpus locker design?

[LascarCapable]

Moved to art and animation feedback.

[CxLL]

1 hour ago, DeMonkey said:

why DE would undo the work they did making lockers colourblind friendly

Similar first thought here. The former one, while simplistic and "bland" had proper traits that have made it  user-friendly. Functional.

Spoiler

Pros: 
- They somewhat fit the newly acclaimed Corpus aesthetic
- They seem a bit sturdier than the previous one
- The opening animation is more interesting
- Not colour-coded

Cons:
- Extremely bulky and, when fit into smaller areas, they take up enough of screen real estate to make them feel intrusive
- Lacking indicators of being open further than the light on the front so one cannot know of it being open unless standing in front.
- Light indicator does not stand out at all unless in a dark area.
- No actual emittance of said light either so you will not see it unless standing in front
- Choice of light colour not different from environmental shine for the colourblind due to the strength of light

Solutions:
If you plan to use color coding to convey content, you should ensure that there is a second mechanism (e.g. different shapes or text labels) to provide the information to audiences who cannot perceive the color changing including the blind and color deficient users. Color coding should always be supplemented with some other mechanism such as a shape or symbol.
Using various shades of a single colour instead of multiple colours is of course the most sure-fire way to avoid colour blindness issues.
If you intend on using light as a source indicator, test its visibility in all of the game's tilesets, both facing towards and away from light sources. As was the case with mining in the Orb Vallis, you might have noticed that white-on-white doesn't quite help with achieving results.

Edited December 20, 2018 by cxll
Spoiler, eaten by the void. Will add more.

[Kobrakai]

Old ones were much better.

[DeMonkey]

49 minutes ago, cxll said:

Solutions:
If you plan to use color coding to convey content, you should ensure that there is a second mechanism (e.g. different shapes or text labels) to provide the information to audiences who cannot perceive the color changing including the blind and color deficient users. Color coding should always be supplemented with some other mechanism such as a shape or symbol.
Using various shades of a single colour instead of multiple colours is of course the most sure-fire way to avoid colour blindness issues.
If you intend on using light as a source indicator, test its visibility in all of the game's tilesets, both facing towards and away from light sources. As was the case with mining in the Orb Vallis, you might have noticed that white-on-white doesn't quite help with achieving results.

I'd personally like to see them animated in some way. A rotating light or panel on the front and sides to show that the locker is "powered on".

This could allow it to catch the eye and be easily differentiated from "unpowered" lockers, regardless of the chosen colour.

[iMessier57]

On 2018-12-19 at 2:35 AM, Marvelous_A said:

I think the color scheme of new design doesn't really match the Corpus theme.

they will once they remaster corpus textures, probably with Gas city.

[Steel_Rook]

Actually seeing the two sets of lockers side-by-side in screenshots... I absolutely like the old ones better. The locker design doesn't even matter, it's the large, easily-red, colour-and-shape-coded lights on the front that I really like about the old ones. The new lockers might look fancy from an aesthetic and fidelity perspective, but they're a massive step down in terms of gameplay.

[Rhyandra]

Whoever even thought about doing this should question his entire way of thinking. Like.. what was the point? They were perfectly distinguishable before, AND they look uglier.

[Yxivi]

The new design looks good aesthetically but functionality? No. Maybe if they implement the color coding of the old one for each states of the lockers...and just add more indicators in there so it's easy to tell if it's locked or what. Maybe blinking light for active state?

[Tanya_Sapien]

This is my first time ever posting on the forums, I tend to just lurk, but this I felt was important enough to weigh in on.

I do not like the new monochrome aesthetic being used here. As for the look of the new lockers themselves I could take it or leave it, but the red and green and white was very important and very useful. As it stands now, I have no indication of what my pet can and cannot unlock and what they have and have not unlocked.

If DE is absolutely married to the monochrome, then may I suggest this as a solution:

"Lootable" previously green would be a sustained light as it is at the moment.
"Dead/Not Lootable" previously black would just remain unlit as it is at the moment
"Unlockable" previously red would be 'breathing' that is to say pulsing slowly, just like the moa lockers do
"Unlocked" which a pet or the thief card has cracked open would be flickering, reflecting the fact that the electronic lock has been damaged

This would be colorblind friendly, function as a form of iconography, and be able to be efficiently recolored for matching various tilesets without affecting readability, you can have your cake and eat it too. In my opinion this would be the best way to make everybody happy (though it doesn't address the glare issue some people have reported)

[Ashendal]

The latest hotfix tossed a "hologram" onto any unlocked lockers. That didn't fix the fact that you still have to rub your crotch onto every "locked" locker spamming F if you're using Master Thief because it doesn't get the hologram if it unlocks and if you play with the sound off listening to music there's nothing to show if the locker "unlocked" when you walk past.

Can you please stop with the half way fixes for things that didn't need changing in the first place? Why can't we just have different colored lights again? If they can't be red/green anymore because of color blindness pick 4 different colors that are the least affected and give us back the functionality we had before. Stop making things worse when you're trying to improve them. I understand that some artist likes the work he or she did to make the new assets for the lockers but if they aren't willing to do ALL the work necessary to make them have the same functionality as the old one then just don't change it.

[Andvarja]

Yeah it's a big improvement for regular Unlocked lockers.  But Locked, Unlocked by master thief/pets, and Deactivated by master thief lockers are all still 100% identical.

It'd help to put glyphs for the Locked and Unlocked by abilities lockers as well.  Having the deactivated ones show nothing is fine.

But these states really should have the same color indicators across all factions.  The locker lights are functionally a UI element and that kind of consistency, that function, is more important than having it match the aesthetics around it.  We're not looking at these lockers and lights to admire the model, we need to know their status.  Blue and Orange will look a little weird on, say, Orokin lockers (and also be harder to read in those light conditions than the old colors),and Orokin lockers are currently the best example of clearly legible lockers in the game. 

I think it may be better to just go back to the old colors or choose a new scheme to use across all factions.  Currently it mismatches the other factions, which is potentially confusing.  And if you're planning on making all the factions distinct, that's even worse.  Who wants to learn a different color scheme for each faction?  And what happens when the Locked state for one faction looks too similar to the Unlocked state for another?  This is the kind of trouble you'll run into matching the indicators to the aesthetic rather than using a uniform standard. 

At the end of the day, this is a UI element and should be designed with that in mind.

Edited December 21, 2018 by Andvarja

[maycne.sonahoz]

It's as if they replaced metal lockers with plastic ones...

[Reifnir]

I do not like the new look at all. It's much harder to distinguish the unlocked ones at a passing glance (which is all we spare most of the time, given the game's pace).

We could definitely do with more distinguishable ones, with more stuff to tell us which ones are open. 

About this much more (sorry for madskillz here, it's intentionally exaggerated and unintentionally bad):

 

[Katze127]

The new one looks horrible. I want the old back. It was cute and fuzzy, and Corpus like. This looks like some old basement container. Or at least if DE want to use it put it to the Orb Vallis.

[(PSN)WetPollito]

I prefer the old ones!!, but not the old old ones... the last! ehhhhh I'm confused... too many design!!!!..

[CxLL]

[ Fortuna: Hotfix 24.2.6 ] 

15 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Corpus Lockers/Caches that can be opened now display a holographic symbol to indicate such. Corpus Lockers/Caches without the holographic symbol cannot be opened. 

• This change comes from vocal feedback regarding the unlock/locked visual changes to Corpus Lockers, and the conflict between the lack of contrast.

> Issue still present.

- Choice of colour does not cater to visibility, whether you're colourblind or not
- Light itself blends in with environmental illumination
- Hologram is 2d and therefore majorly not visible from the sides
- Hologram aesthetic is quite unfitting, from placement to design itself
- Lacking side and back indicators

Figure 1: Colour fully blending into the shine. Distinction between locked and unlocked locker near non-existent, especially when the player is on the move, which this game continuously demands.
Settings used: No bloom, no colour correction, no depth of field, no motion blur.
Issue augmented with above settings turned on, feel free to provide screenshots.

Figure 2: Looking at lockers from the side will not allow you to see the hologram until under a certain angle. Quite an ineffective indicator considering most lockers are positioned sideways alongside walls between which the player is expected to run. Clicking on the image will expand it.

[Tanya_Sapien]

Adding a hologram to the unlocked version does not fix the core problem.

The lockpicking script is twitchy at the best of times, so we have literally no way of knowing if a locker with no lights on it is "dead" or if our dog/cat has just decided to take a nap first and doesn't want to unlock it yet. I've already been standing, staring at a locked box, figured it was dead and started walking away, then I hear my dog bark behind me and now I have to backtrack. It's frustrating.

Please stop with these 50% fixes, you're better than that, DE, and plain iconography isn't rocket surgery.

[Steel_Rook]

The locker "fix" was a damp squib. It addressed one single problem of the whole laundry list of problems the new lockers have. Here's what they need:

1. A visible green marker for being unlocked. This exists and is visible, but is not green.
2. A visible red marker for being locked. This doesn't exist.
3. A visible white marker for a previously locked locker which has been opened via Master Thief/Scavange. This doesn't exist.
4. A visible "disabled" state for a locker which cannot be opened. This exists but is used for multiple states and so isn't viable.
5. A unique "Hidden Cache" version of the locker model, for use in that special objective. This doesn't exist.

Frankly, whoever made the new lockers and made the subsequent changes and wrote the patch notes comes across like a person who hasn't played the game and hasn't actually read the "vocal feedback" the patch cited. Let's do a quick quote:

Quote

Corpus Lockers/Caches that can be opened now display a holographic symbol to indicate such. Corpus Lockers/Caches without the holographic symbol cannot be opened. 

• This change comes from vocal feedback regarding the unlock/locked visual changes to Corpus Lockers, and the conflict between the lack of contrast.

The statement in this patch note is false on its face. "Corpus Lockers/Caches without the holographic symbol" absolutely can be opened. I can name two mods capable of doing this off the top of my head - Master Thief for Warframes and Scavange for Beasts. I suspect there may be more I'm not aware of it. That these lockers cannot be opened normally is immaterial because the game features a system for opening them under certain conditions and thus a distinction needs to be made between lockers which can be opened by everyone, lockers which can be opened conditionally and lockers which cannot be opened for whatever reason. This is the case for every other set of lockers, including Grenier Lockers, Orokin Lockers and the legacy Corpus lockers.

And just to add an extra cherry on top, my suspicion was proven true. Non-interactive Corpus lockers - broken ones used as map props - don't seem to have been updated to the new models. I just randomly came across a few:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1596867768

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1596909818

Edited December 21, 2018 by Steel_Rook
Added a screenshot.

[Katze127]

33 minutes ago, Steel_Rook said:

...

And just to add an extra cherry on top, my suspicion was proven true. Non-interactive Corpus lockers - broken ones used as map props - don't seem to have been updated to the new models. I just randomly came across a few:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1596867768

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1596909818

That's just make the point clear it was totally uncalled and unnecessary.
Also, the new one looks like some LEGO brick.

Please, DE if you read this, we don't want to discard your efforts, but please, if you really want this new Corpus locker so badly make it Fortuna exclusive, because it ruins the other map designs.
Also, I always found iconic the old Corpus lockers, like I saw them somewhere and I was like "Yeah, Warframe!", but with this... the whole magic is gone.
I see you guys now have some issues with graphics and design, and you also deserve to lay down at the end of the year but please, let the Corpus lockers be. They were perfrect in the way they was.

[Tanya_Sapien]

5 minutes ago, Katze127 said:

Also, I always found iconic the old Corpus lockers, like I saw them somewhere and I was like "Yeah, Warframe!", but with this... the whole magic is gone.
I see you guys now have some issues with graphics and design, and you also deserve to lay down at the end of the year but please, let the Corpus lockers be. They were perfrect in the way they was.

hear hear

[Steel_Rook]

13 minutes ago, Katze127 said:

Also, I always found iconic the old Corpus lockers, like I saw them somewhere and I was like "Yeah, Warframe!", but with this... the whole magic is gone.
I see you guys now have some issues with graphics and design, and you also deserve to lay down at the end of the year but please, let the Corpus lockers be. They were perfrect in the way they was.

I personally wouldn't go quite as far as to say "perfect." From my perspective, there's nothing wrong with replacing old art assets with new ones... But you have to do it right. This is the perfect storm of pointless busywork. There was no real reason to replace the Lockers (or the consoles), the new Lockers look different but not necessarily better AND they're a substantial downgrade from a gameplay perspective. You have to remember that Lockers are not just an aesthetic element. They also have a core gameplay function, which the old ones were simply far better at accomplishing. Colour-coding, shape-coding, easy readibility in a variety of lighting conditions and at various distances - the old lockers did ALL of this far better than the new ones.

To me, the new lockers are a bit like redesigning my weapon UI and omitting the ammo counter altogether. I don't care how pretty it looks when it no longer carries the information I need to play the game properly. Sure, I can tell that I've run out of ammo when my weapon stops firing, but that's not a replacement for a proper ammo counter in the UI. The same applies to the Lockers. The lights on the front and sides are THE most important aspect of them, above and beyond how the lockers look or I'd argue even what's in them. I fail to see how the patch notes can claim to be responding to "vocal feedback" when the change they're talking about doesn't address said feedback in any meaningful way.

[Reynard_Fox]

The new lockers are one of the most pointless and overly-designed things they've put in the game, they give far less visual information than the old ones, from some angles I can't even tell which lockers are openable or inert anymore.

I hate them.

[Tanya_Sapien]

Hey kids! Welcome to Tinker Time with Tanya!

We've got something special for you today, Corpus lockers!

It's no small feat to tell what is and isn't an unlocked box these days, so for the omniscience impaired, I've prepared this little demonstration.

I've got Hank here as today's little helper, you all remember Hank, right? he deals in pain and pain accessories, and the pain of quantum uncertainty is today's subject!

Take a good long look at these lockers:

Spoiler

Alright, Hank, now go through and unlock all the unlockable ones!

Spoiler

 

Alright kids, now it's your turn, which of these lockers did Hank unlock? Was it all of them? none of them? Were any of them broken and not openable in the first place? Write down your answers and then click the spoiler to find out!

Spoiler

If you guessed 1, 3, and 6, you were right! Congratulations, You noticed the subtle shift in the quantum state of the lockers, and nobody will ever know you're not a clairvoyant. for everybody else, look closely at the temporal state of the subatomic fluctuations, you'll notice a 0.005% shift in their molar bonds, that's how you can tell the first time, every time, if a locker can be opened or not.

Some people might say having a distinction between unlockable, unlocked, and dead lockers is a vital gameplay mechanic, but we know better, don't we little fate scryers? When somebody says there's no way to tell between those three states, just show them what you learned about existential uncertainty amd quantum states here today and watch how impressed they are when they're no longer spending more time staring at dead lockers than fighting the Corpus scourge!

 

I hope Tinker Time with Tanya has been informative for all you kids! Come back for more educational programs any time!

 

^{_{Tinker Time with Tanya is a subsidiary of Online Gaming Quality Control And Testing and not affiliated with Digital Extremes, TanyaTruth (UPC) side effects may include but are not limited to functional UI elements, workable game mechanics, and usability and readability of world assets and entities. TanyaTruth available by prescription only, use only as directed.}}

[Mousarchy]

Can we not just turn these new locker designs into "reinforced lockers" give us more variety in rare crates and what not?  or a new source of rare lootables

since asides from the unpleasing hologram...this undoes the work of colorblind friendly lockers.

[Steel_Rook]

I should also point out that a lot of the old lockers didn't get updated to the new visuals. I know I pointed this out already, but I keep finding more and more, to the point where it's not funny any more. A large number of lockers have not been updated in the Infested Corpus Ship tileset, as well as in the Corpus Ship tiles unique to the Invasion variant of that tileset. Pretty much anywhere lockers are smashed open, buried in the ground, covered in infestation or otherwise not active, they weren't updated. The Corpus Ship Sabotage mission also still has a number of the old lockers in the Reactor Room, specifically in the little locker rooms under the control room and on the opposite side. Those were previously non-interactive and so appear to have slipped through the cracks.

All of this suggests to me that this change was done by a search-and-replace script for locker interaction programming, which missed any lockers which weren't interactive. This was also not passed through QA, because I refuse to believe a QA tester wouldn't have immediately jumped to the Sabotage locker room or run any of the already famously buggy Invasion missions to see if everything worked out, or at the very least manually checked any of the non-interactive lockers we've all seen on a variety of tilesets. The slipshod application rather makes me wonder why this change was even necessary.

And what KILLS me is I actually like the new design better than the old design. If this change were done correctly in the first place, I doubt you'd see as much push-back.