About P.v.p. Thread-Makers In Warframe, And Those Who Want It.

[Arkezuli]

Yep. That pretty much sums it up. :T

 

Am I the only one who thinks this? Who else can relate?

 

So much is being reworked, tweaked, and consequently bugging/lacking because of people who apparently can't tell apart P.V.P. games like W.O.W. or TERA from P.V.E. games like Warframe, it's now barely playable (If at all) for those with a slower Connection/non top-notch PC like me...

Also, I.M.H.O., it's destroying the very game itself.

 

We're getting hardcore-nerfs to Warframes (Yes, I know not all of them are to be blamed on P.V.P.), broken PvP in Dojos, and a sh*tload of stuff being tweaked that, I'm willing to bet, not only is putting DEs through some stressing times, but also COMPLETELY destroying what was once the very softcore and Co-op idea of the game in its early stages.

 

 

 

Don't get me wrong. I have nothing against PvP in general. And I'd actually like PvP in Warframe.

But NOT now. NOT like this.

 

Warframe itself isn't even halfway done by what I can see. And the DEs were already having such a hard time getting right each Warframe skill and weapons Balance... It's like it was still a closed beta...

 

And then now we have these QQ'rs, these people that, in my honest opinion, seem... clueless about games.

Who are now FORCING P.V.P. inside this game, that isn't even formed yet, and confusing its shape to the point where noone knows where's warframe going from here anymore...



Or maybe not.

 

 

Maybe I'm the clueless one. Rambling nonsenses, QQ'ng about a Game that only I think is broken, or just excessively worried about what's only a stage... a point in which Warframe is just suffering some deeper reworks, and which is yet to go...

Either way, I thought I should share it here. And let y'all players like me speak your thoughts. Even if just to give me a clue as to each one of ya think.

 

That's pretty much it. And sorry if I rambled too much.

 

Peace.

[SynisterDoom]

i didnt even read it i just love that gif

[Morgax]

I don't mind PVP as concept, as long as it doesn't get lot of focus and balance doesn't revolves around it , also make it optional (a.k.a not requiment for anything). 

Edited September 10, 2013 by Morgax

[Cinderain]

Leaving this here. Enjoy thinking outside of the box.

 

"Balancing is nowhere near as bad as people think it is, and that's only if you're focusing on the 'Killing in Arena' style PvP, that everyone (yes, both sides) can't get their heads out of their butts about. Games can actually separate their PvE and PvP, and DE already developed the means to do so.

 

The Mod Card system allows for the implementation of new mods and abilities, which can then be made to be PvE or PvP-specific. DE talked about this themselves a long time ago, back at PAX. Weapons can simply have a separate set of numbers for Player to Player damage.

 

This is a video from PAX.

 

 

3 minutes and 50 seconds is when they start talking about PvP. They talk about filling out their focus on PvE and how they're going to slowly and organically build up PvP. They talk about the Mod Card system and how it can be used to separate the balancing of PvE and PvP by making mods and abilities that only work in certain types of game modes.

 

Digital Extremes has developed tons of PvP. Their original ideas for Dark Sector/Warframe included lots of PvP. They may have decided to go with a more PvE focus, but they never threw the idea of PvP in the trash.

 

Now, let's look at the PS4. The PS4 version is being worked on right now, by another team of people. The release to the PS4 means that the game is growing, it's expanding to a larger audience. Which means more money. That's more money that can go into PvE and even PvP.

 

In this day and age of video games, especially for an online shooter, no PvP is, sadly and unfortunately, a limitation. As it stands, only one group of gamers is being catered to. Normally, you want something for everyone. When the game becomes bigger, such as the PS4 release, there are going to be more people who are going to expect and/or want PvP. And that's more people who are going to be disappointed and who won't stay. DE wants as many people playing and as much money coming in as possible.

 

If more PvP is added to the game, it has the same potential as the PS4 release. More ways to play, more players, more money. That's more money for everything.

 

If you don't like playing against players in any form of gameplay, whether it's 'Killing in an Arena', 'Team Against Team Objectives' or 'Checkers', then don't do it. Simple as that.

 

If you think the community is somehow going to become magically "worse", then take a look at things right now. Look at how you guys react to the very mention of PvP, trading or any new feature or suggestion. This community cries, rages and fights with itself more than it would if we had more PvP.

 

We're not talking about changing the focus from PvE, so stop saying that. We're not asking for PvP now, so stop saying that. We're asking to have more of it eventually. Because this game needs more of everything, it needs more to play with.

 

People are getting bored of the game. Scripted enemies only go so far, especially if their AI isn't anything amazing. People want something new, people want challenge and people want end game. Playing against human opponents is a great way to do that, and it can come in many forms.

 

If your butt still hurts, then think of it this way. The extra money that PvP lovers would bring in would give you more of what you want. (But don't start fights about that, 'cause you do hate PvP, right? harhar)

 

Everyone likes different types of gameplay, every side has different people. We all need to stop generalizing, we all need to stop being rude. We all need to grow up, shut up and allow the game to grow as well.

 

 (✿◡‿◡)"

[Azure_Kytia]

In short, all they need is an "isPvPLevel" flag and their already implemented systems will be workable.

[WhisperByte]

-snip-

 (✿◡‿◡)"

Sorry for nitpicking but this kinda makes me worry:

 

-The idea about separate mods for pvp balancing is great. Really great. The question is: where would those pvp specific mods be? In the market for credits? Cause I'm almost sure that DE will put them into enemy drop tables thus diluting the loot pool and therefore impacting pve experience for players who don't care about pvp at all.

 

-And then there're the rewards for pvp. What happens when devs give weapons/frames as rewards for pvp (cause face it: pvp crowd won't be satisfied with just pvp for "fun")? Then pve players would be locked out of mastery progression

Edited September 10, 2013 by WhisperByte

[Mythblaze]

Leaving this here. Enjoy thinking outside of the box.

 

"Balancing is nowhere near as bad as people think it is, and that's only if you're focusing on the 'Killing in Arena' style PvP, that everyone (yes, both sides) can't get their heads out of their butts about. Games can actually separate their PvE and PvP, and DE already developed the means to do so.

 

The Mod Card system allows for the implementation of new mods and abilities, which can then be made to be PvE or PvP-specific. DE talked about this themselves a long time ago, back at PAX. Weapons can simply have a separate set of numbers for Player to Player damage.

 

This is a video from PAX.

 

 

3 minutes and 50 seconds is when they start talking about PvP. They talk about filling out their focus on PvE and how they're going to slowly and organically build up PvP. They talk about the Mod Card system and how it can be used to separate the balancing of PvE and PvP by making mods and abilities that only work in certain types of game modes.

 

Digital Extremes has developed tons of PvP. Their original ideas for Dark Sector/Warframe included lots of PvP. They may have decided to go with a more PvE focus, but they never threw the idea of PvP in the trash.

 

Now, let's look at the PS4. The PS4 version is being worked on right now, by another team of people. The release to the PS4 means that the game is growing, it's expanding to a larger audience. Which means more money. That's more money that can go into PvE and even PvP.

 

In this day and age of video games, especially for an online shooter, no PvP is, sadly and unfortunately, a limitation. As it stands, only one group of gamers is being catered to. Normally, you want something for everyone. When the game becomes bigger, such as the PS4 release, there are going to be more people who are going to expect and/or want PvP. And that's more people who are going to be disappointed and who won't stay. DE wants as many people playing and as much money coming in as possible.

 

If more PvP is added to the game, it has the same potential as the PS4 release. More ways to play, more players, more money. That's more money for everything.

 

If you don't like playing against players in any form of gameplay, whether it's 'Killing in an Arena', 'Team Against Team Objectives' or 'Checkers', then don't do it. Simple as that.

 

If you think the community is somehow going to become magically "worse", then take a look at things right now. Look at how you guys react to the very mention of PvP, trading or any new feature or suggestion. This community cries, rages and fights with itself more than it would if we had more PvP.

 

We're not talking about changing the focus from PvE, so stop saying that. We're not asking for PvP now, so stop saying that. We're asking to have more of it eventually. Because this game needs more of everything, it needs more to play with.

 

People are getting bored of the game. Scripted enemies only go so far, especially if their AI isn't anything amazing. People want something new, people want challenge and people want end game. Playing against human opponents is a great way to do that, and it can come in many forms.

 

If your butt still hurts, then think of it this way. The extra money that PvP lovers would bring in would give you more of what you want. (But don't start fights about that, 'cause you do hate PvP, right? harhar)

 

Everyone likes different types of gameplay, every side has different people. We all need to stop generalizing, we all need to stop being rude. We all need to grow up, shut up and allow the game to grow as well.

 

 (✿◡‿◡)"

You need a PvP hug :P 

 

Very well said!

[SynisterDoom]

You need a PvP hug :P 

 

Very well said!

a pvp hug sounds like an icepick hug :/ 

[Phoenix86]

i didnt even read it i just love that gif

 

[SynisterDoom]

i sure didnt. but that gif is my new thread reaction for incredibly stupid posts

[Cinderain]

Sorry for nitpicking but this kinda makes me worry:

 

-The idea about separate mods for pvp balancing is great. Really great. The question is: where would those pvp specific mods be? In the market for credits? Cause I'm almost sure that DE will put them into enemy drop tables thus diluting the loot pool and therefore impacting pve experience for players who don't care about pvp at all.

 

-And then there're the rewards for pvp. What happens when devs give weapons/frames as rewards for pvp (cause face it: pvp crowd won't be satisfied with just pvp for "fun")? Then pve players would be locked out of mastery progression

 

Uhm.... It's always seemed fairly straightforward to me... PvP rewards/mods obtained in PvP and only for PvP. Look at Guild Wars and DCUO.

Edited September 10, 2013 by FatalX7

[SynisterDoom]

Uhm.... It's always seemed fairly straightforward to me... PvP rewards/mods obtained in PvP and only for PvP. Look at Guild Wars and DCUO.

Yeah but you've seen community reactions when there were things like vandals and prime exlusives. It ends up making them flip out for no good reason

[Cinderain]

Yeah but you've seen community reactions when there were things like vandals and prime exlusives. It ends up making them flip out for no good reason

 

Hypocrisy and contradictions are their problems. But I've not talked about super special exclusive weapons that you can only get in PvP, but if I did you'd only be able to use them in PvP anyway.

 

The 'rewards' I was referring to in my above post were simply PvP versions of what we've already got.

 

And we still have cosmetics to consider. If DE will ever allow cosmetics to be obtained in any other outside of Platinum, that is........................................

Edited September 10, 2013 by FatalX7

[SynisterDoom]

Hypocrisy and contradictions are their problems. But I've not talked about super special exclusive weapons that you can only get in PvP, but if I did you'd only be able to use them in PvP anyway.

 

And we still have cosmetics to consider.

i wouldnt mind some pvp exclusive cosmetics. A badge showing your kill count, and eventually a helmet after about 2000 tenno down. you get a stalker replica with no stats other than black/red energy? 

[Cinderain]

I'd love to have the Stalker's Frame... Anyway, it would take work, but with a little time and thought it could be great and the precious balance of PvE doesn't have to suffer.

 

I have to pee, then I'm going to go back to playing A Machine for Pigs.

[SynisterDoom]

I'd love to have the Stalker's Frame... Anyway, it would take work, but with a little time and thought it could be great and the precious balance of PvE doesn't have to suffer.

 

I have to pee, then I'm going to go back to playing A Machine for Pigs.

yeah sure

[ThePresident777]

I don't see why a game can't have both PvP and PvE.  Just look at the current crop of PvP games.  They are tiny games.  the same goes for PvE games.  They are tiny.  I want a huge games.  I want games with tons of everything.  I want Dat Warframe Movement Mechancs in PvE, in PvP, in all sorts of game modes.  Brink and Bulletstorm both have good movement mechnics.  But they are tiny itty bitty dead games.  Their developers just never put much development into them.  I want Warframe to pick up where they left off and go everywhere.

[Azure98]

Adding a little pvp is a good thing for varieties sake.
But they need to stick with what they do best and keep the focus on their original plan, PvE.
Its nice to have variety but dont try to do too much or you may just end up killing your game entirely. (Global Agenda is a fine example of this)
It doesnt seem to be anything to worry about though a lot of their choices seem based on around PvE a lot and they pretty much never update PvP aside from whats aparently coming in Update 10 and the 2v2 arena.

[Tr1ples1xer]

I agree with op, PVP will be the death of WF, sad to see all these pvp threads, WF is NOT a pvp game, deal with it.

[Arkezuli]

(...)

(1 -) "Balancing is nowhere near as bad as people think it is, and that's only if you're focusing on the 'Killing in Arena' style PvP, that everyone (yes, both sides) can't get their heads out of their butts about. Games can actually separate their PvE and PvP, and DE already developed the means to do so.

 

(2 -) In this day and age of video games, especially for an online shooter, no PvP is, sadly and unfortunately, a limitation. As it stands, only one group of gamers is being catered to. Normally, you want something for everyone. When the game becomes bigger, such as the PS4 release, there are going to be more people who are going to expect and/or want PvP. And that's more people who are going to be disappointed and who won't stay. DE wants as many people playing and as much money coming in as possible.

 

If more PvP is added to the game, it has the same potential as the PS4 release. More ways to play, more players, more money. That's more money for everything.

 

If you don't like playing against players in any form of gameplay, whether it's 'Killing in an Arena', 'Team Against Team Objectives' or 'Checkers', then don't do it. Simple as that.

 

(3 -)If you think the community is somehow going to become magically "worse", then take a look at things right now. Look at how you guys react to the very mention of PvP, trading or any new feature or suggestion. This community cries, rages and fights with itself more than it would if we had more PvP.

 

We're not talking about changing the focus from PvE, so stop saying that. We're not asking for PvP now, so stop saying that. We're asking to have more of it eventually. Because this game needs more of everything, it needs more to play with.

 

(4 -)People are getting bored of the game. Scripted enemies only go so far, especially if their AI isn't anything amazing. People want something new, people want challenge and people want end game. Playing against human opponents is a great way to do that, and it can come in many forms.

 

(5 -)If your butt still hurts, then think of it this way. (6 -)The extra money that PvP lovers would bring in would give you more of what you want. (7 -)(But don't start fights about that, 'cause you do hate PvP, right? harhar)

 

Everyone likes different types of gameplay, every side has different people. (8 -)We all need to stop generalizing, we all need to stop being rude. We all need to grow up, shut up and allow the game to grow as well.

 

(8 -)(✿◡‿◡)"

 

1 - I see people complaining harder about these changes than about they did when Nova first came. I don't think it can have such intense feedback without being "That bad".

But then again, that might just be me.

 

And I'm sorry, but Vauban's Bastille nerf is just plain broken. Don't even bother trying to tell me otherwise.

I'm not saying Bastille wasn't Op as it was before, I'm saying that was a very cheap and crude way of nerf they placed in it.

 

2 - If it depended on me, I'd have stopped reading at "In this day and age of video games, especially for an online shooter, no PvP is, sadly and unfortunately, a limitation."

I'm sorry, but...

 

...wat?

Games are their developers' Games. And no Game in this planet can have a part of it declared limited or not if by anyone other than its Developers.

 

So no.

You cannot declare that. Not in this game, nor in any other game that not made on your own.

Step out of your high heels and tone down your ego. 'cause it ain't doing any better than making you look prepotent and/or misinformed.

 

3 - "If you think the community is somehow going to become magically "worse", then take a look at things right now. Look at how you guys react to the very mention of PvP, trading or any new feature or suggestion. This community cries, rages and fights with itself more than it would if we had more PvP. "

 

So... let me see if my poor little brain gets it right...

 

You claim that we're against P.V.P.... because we need P.V.P....?

 

4 - Oi, hun?

 

P.V.P. =/= Endgame.

 

Endgame can Have P.V.P., but it's NOT P.V.P. exclusivity.

We could have more Mods/Guns that would require an actual challenge (Read: A challenge balanced to require the right amount of effort/dedication/skills/game experience to be able to be taken), we could have hidden, secret and new worlds that could only be unlocked when the solar system is already fully beaten (Maybe even within a Time limit/Minimum score for each stage), Easter eggs, or pretty much any hidden/locked locations/reward/challenge implemented properly.

(Or even, as implied by yourself, do the small things, like improve enemies and their A.I.)

 

Sorry for nitpicking but this kinda makes me worry:

 

-The idea about separate mods for pvp balancing is great. Really great. The question is: where would those pvp specific mods be? In the market for credits? Cause I'm almost sure that DE will put them into enemy drop tables thus diluting the loot pool and therefore impacting pve experience for players who don't care about pvp at all.

 

-And then there're the rewards for pvp. What happens when devs give weapons/frames as rewards for pvp (cause face it: pvp crowd won't be satisfied with just pvp for "fun")? Then pve players would be locked out of mastery progression

 

5 - My rear feels fine, thank you.

 

6 -

 

7 - I hate P.V.P?

You didn't even read my post did you? Can a Mod please remove this load of "nonsense" that was clearly blindly copy-pasted from god knows where?

 

8 - Your copy-pasted Text in over 5 - 10 different threads embedded with your planet-sized ego carefully stamped at the end with a cute little flowery emote amuses me.

 

Funny how you claim I'm the one not thinking outside the box, while you repeatedly recycle the exact same post to a bunch of different people whose posts you didn't even read properly before doing so.

[Ced23Ric]

The Warframe forums are not about jumping into camps, entrenching these positions and then lobbing grenades over the sandbags. Please cut the metacomplaint threads. Complaining about complaints, complaining about other people having other opinions is not productive.

 

State your feedback. Leave the others alone.

 

Locking this.