Mesa Prime Toggle Removal -- RESOLVED!

[SoulEchelon]

Just now, Amontadillo said:

It's not stated. It's only implied. Which isn't super reassuring.

What else would For The Time Being mean other than temporary.

[myuushii]

3 minutes ago, SoulEchelon said:

Sounds like you just came from Brozime's stream, who's making a huge hissy fit and screaming random assumptions. DE isn't saying "get f*cked". They're saying "Sorry, fixing this won't be immediate so please be patient while we do so."

No and I don't see how this is relevant. I don't see what point you're trying to make when it's clear how people can have issues with this problem and how it's being handled. They are big boys and girls and can handle community "feedback" without brave keyboard soldiers in the forum threads.

[SoulEchelon]

Just now, myuushii said:

No and I don't see how this is relevant. I don't see what point you're trying to make when it's clear how people can have issues with this problem and how it's being handled. They are big boys and girls and can handle community "feedback" without brave keyboard soldiers in the forum threads.

Brave keyboard soldier? What are you going on about? Are you trying to make this personal, because that's not going to work.

Fact is - DE made an error and they're trying to rectify it, but it won't be immediate. If they were permanently removing prime details as an option from Mesa Prime and the rest of the Primes to come, THEN I'd be more than happy to raise a pitchfork. But they aren't. It's temporary. According to that post, they will be working on a fix. Sorry if I'm not kneejerking myself off a cliff like everyone else.

[Amontadillo]

14 minutes ago, SoulEchelon said:

What else would For The Time Being mean other than temporary.

Raids are also gone "for the time being". For comparison.

[(PSN)TwilightGrim]

i would suggest including the prime models in past and future tennogen model sets as well( mesa isnt the only frame screwed over by prime details)

[SoulEchelon]

Just now, Amontadillo said:

Raids are also gone "for the time being". For comparison.

And then removed because they saw no one was playing them regardless. They used the manpower devoted to raids to instead work on other parts of the game that WERE popular.

[Lassie]

This is simply not OK, It has become expected that tennogen work with prime details, and when this happened to valkyr prime you fixed it. 

[Amontadillo]

1 minute ago, SoulEchelon said:

And then removed because they saw no one was playing them regardless. They used the manpower devoted to raids to instead work on other parts of the game that WERE popular.

The reason raids were removed rather than ignored was because enough people were playing them and complaining about bugs, but not enough to be considered worth fixing.

 

It doesn'T change that saying "this is gone for the time being" does not automatically mean it's temporary. Raids were removed "for the time being". It wasn't temporary. You can't assume it's temporary here either.

 

Don't get me wrong, I hope that they do mean that they will fix it and that this is just a poorly worded post. But unfortunately you really can't just assume that it's what they mean.

[SoulEchelon]

Just now, Amontadillo said:

The reason raids were removed rather than ignored was because enough people were playing them and complaining about bugs, but not enough to be considered worth fixing.

 

It doesn'T change that saying "this is gone for the time being" does not automatically mean it's temporary. Raids were removed "for the time being". It wasn't temporary. You can't assume it's temporary here either.

 

Don't get me wrong, I hope that they do mean that they will fix it and that this is just a poorly worded post. But unfortunately you really can't just assume that it's what they mean.

Your whole entire basis of ire is "They said raids were gone temporarily so that means whenever they state something else is gone temporarily, that means they're removing it."

Yeah, next time they mention an update is going to be temporarily delayed, you better be right here on the forums screaming at the top of your lungs about how we'll never get that update.

[Amontadillo]

1 minute ago, SoulEchelon said:

Your whole entire basis of ire is "They said raids were gone temporarily so that means whenever they state something else is gone temporarily, that means they're removing it."

Yeah, next time they mention an update is going to be temporarily delayed, you better be right here on the forums screaming at the top of your lungs about how we'll never get that update.

I'm not sure where you see me screaming. If you can point me to it, I'll edit it out for you.

I'm not saying it "means they're removing it". I'm saying we can't know. That's all. Shouldn't be that hard to understand. I hope it doesn't mean that. But we doN't know until it happens. That's the whole issue here.

 

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

9 minutes ago, Amontadillo said:

I'm not sure where you see me screaming. If you can point me to it, I'll edit it out for you.

I'm not saying it "means they're removing it". I'm saying we can't know. That's all. Shouldn't be that hard to understand. I hope it doesn't mean that. But we doN't know until it happens. That's the whole issue here.

 

do you know why the prime toggle details was created to begin with? Stop being so obtuse. no way are they going to just throw all that work out of the window because Mesa Prime can't have Prime toggle details right now. Come on. Take your tinfoil hat off. Use common sense. Stop Overcomplicating something that's not overly complicated.

Edited December 18, 2018 by (XB1)RDeschain82

[(PSN)ForesakenDemize]

This is absolutely insane, I really thought that the warframe community was better than this. People essentially saying that DE is incompentant, this is unacceptable, they want a refund. I would love to see any one of the people complaining about this try and do a better job. DE works their asses off trying to get us content as soon as possible, obviously there are going to be mistakes. No one can plan for every variable, we're not perfect. Grow the hell up people, it's just her prime details not working on tennogen skins. Not the end of the world 

[SoulEchelon]

Just now, Amontadillo said:

I'm not sure where you see me screaming. If you can point me to it, I'll edit it out for you.

I'm not saying it "means they're removing it". I'm saying we can't know. That's all. Shouldn't be that hard to understand. I hope it doesn't mean that. But we doN't know until it happens. That's the whole issue here.

 

Then stop assuming the worst. Raids were huge, complicated, and required manpower from every part of the dev team. Prime details however, does not. But the problem lies more in timing than anything else - I would assume at least. The holidays are here, and I'm sure DE is going to be a skeleton crew as they tend to be during said holidays. So, seeing as this is a cosmetic problem and not a huge glaring glitch, they're putting it on the backburner - probably until after the holidays.

Now it's perfectly fine to be worried, and again - if it were "We're removing the option permanently" then I'd be right there with you. But it's not. I will agree more clarification may be a good idea as well, however that's not up to DE_Taylor.

[Amontadillo]

1 minute ago, SoulEchelon said:

Then stop assuming the worst. Raids were huge, complicated, and required manpower from every part of the dev team. Prime details however, does not. But the problem lies more in timing than anything else - I would assume at least. The holidays are here, and I'm sure DE is going to be a skeleton crew as they tend to be during said holidays. So, seeing as this is a cosmetic problem and not a huge glaring glitch, they're putting it on the backburner - probably until after the holidays.

Now it's perfectly fine to be worried, and again - if it were "We're removing the option permanently" then I'd be right there with you. But it's not. I will agree more clarification may be a good idea as well, however that's not up to DE_Taylor.

Where am I assuming the worst? Are you reading what I am writing?

I am saying "It is unclear." I am saying "I hope it implies it is temporary." I am not assuming the worst or screaming or saying that it will definitely be removed or any of the other things you're saying.

Thanks to previous experience, it is currently not a clear enough statement. I would like it to be a clearer statement. That's literally all.

[myuushii]

40 minutes ago, SoulEchelon said:

Brave keyboard soldier? What are you going on about? Are you trying to make this personal, because that's not going to work.

That's cute considering I'm not the one making the assumption that I'm here to parrot some dude and have a "hissy fit" when I only asked for clarification in the OP. Also we must be reading different threads because I fail to see this legendary outrage you keep harping about. It's mostly people, including me, trying to explain to you why people have a problem with the option they took on the OP and ask for clarification.

Edited December 18, 2018 by myuushii

[IronKhagan]

You didn't mention anything was being done to fix (actually fix and not remove) the issue, so are we to assume you're hanging us out to dry, tough luck with that tennogen purchase, better luck next time?

Reminds me of a different blunder involving a crappy nylon bag, except you still have a chance to do the right thing and at the very least not fail to communicate. What does "for the time being" mean? What is being done towards a real fix?

Don't alienate the people that have supported your existence.

[SoulEchelon]

Just now, myuushii said:

That's cute considering I'm not the one making the assumption that I'm here to parrot some dude and have a "hissy fit" when I only asked for clarification in the OP. Also we must be reading different threads because I fail to see this legendary outrage you keep harping about. It's mostly people, including me, trying to explain to you why people have a problem with the option they took on the OP and ask for clarification.

Seeing as you stated exactly what Brozime did in the near exact fashion with the exact wording, it's hard to assume otherwise. It's okay, you're mad and someone you watch is mad with you. However, stating that DE is saying "get f*cked" is escalating the issue to an extreme. A wording you (and Brozime) used. A wording only people that are angry, perhaps even "outraged" would use. So please, don't try to suddenly act like you're calm and collected. You were mad when you posted, and that's fine. Acting like you weren't however, well now you're just lying to yourself.

[Xaiken-EN-]

This worries me greatly and I hope this will be fixed soon. "For the time being" feels like "forever". And by saying you'll disable the toggle for future releases in case of discrepancies gives a bad precedence. I use and love my Ivara Youkai skin but I would be absolutely disappointed if I could not use it with prime details. It makes me hesitant to buy skins for frames with primes to be released after Mesa Prime now. Please DE, don't believe removing the toggle is an acceptable solution and design with prime details in mind for tennogen!

[(PSN)ForesakenDemize]

3 minutes ago, IronKhagan said:

You didn't mention anything was being done to fix (actually fix and not remove) the issue, so are we to assume you're hanging us out to dry, tough luck with that tennogen purchase, better luck next time?

Reminds me of a different blunder involving a crappy nylon bag, except you still have a chance to do the right thing and at the very least not fail to communicate. What does "for the time being" mean? What is being done towards a real fix?

Don't alienate the people that have supported your existence.

Comparing 76 to warframe? Really? 

I don't know if you've heard but there's this website called Google. You can enter is things like "What does for the time being mean?" it's really helpful for people that don't understand simple phrases in the English language 

[myuushii]

1 minute ago, SoulEchelon said:

Seeing as you stated exactly what Brozime did in the near exact fashion with the exact wording, it's hard to assume otherwise. It's okay, you're mad and someone you watch is mad with you. However, stating that DE is saying "get f*cked" is escalating the issue to an extreme. A wording you (and Brozime) used. A wording only people that are angry, perhaps even "outraged" would use. So please, don't try to suddenly act like you're calm and collected. You were mad when you posted, and that's fine. Acting like you weren't however, well now you're just lying to yourself.

Assumptions.

I don't recall using that language before I replied to you and how I talk (and many people do) is no indication for anything neither does it prove your point. But let's just stop this making it about you and me now.

[SoulEchelon]

Just now, myuushii said:

Assumptions.

I don't recall using that language before I replied to you and how I talk (and many people do) is no indication for anything neither does it prove your point. But let's just stop this making it about you and me now.

I never wanted it to be personal in the first place. Even stated specifically NOT to make it personal. So we'll end it on that note.

I...was going to reiterate my statement from earlier but forget it. People will be mad until DE clarifies/fixes the issue. I'm just gonna go enjoy the game with my friend. Ya'll have fun.

[ZyloWolfzan]

This issue has happened multiple times before with Prime Frames (Most notably Valkyr Prime and Vauban prime) and has been fixed then. Refusing to fix it now is effectively just being too lazy to fix the issues yourself. And if that's the case, why not reach out to the Tennogen artists themselves? Because I'd put money on them being willing to make it match the primes themselves, because if it fits the primes it benefits them AND you at DE. There is absolutely ZERO reason why this issue cannot be resolved once everyone is back in the office after the holidays. Refusing to put in any effort to fix it is lazy, and a disservice to both the Tennogen artists who put in so much effort, and the players who spent money on the skins.

[Wyrmius_Prime]

2 hours ago, SoulEchelon said:

Brave keyboard soldier? What are you going on about? Are you trying to make this personal, because that's not going to work.

Fact is - DE made an error and they're trying to rectify it, but it won't be immediate. If they were permanently removing prime details as an option from Mesa Prime and the rest of the Primes to come, THEN I'd be more than happy to raise a pitchfork. But they aren't. It's temporary. According to that post, they will be working on a fix. Sorry if I'm not kneejerking myself off a cliff like everyone else.

But there is absolutely no implication that they are going to do anything. Also if the prime parts aren't usable on tennogen skins, either tennogen skins or prime warframes are going to become pointless in the future. At least 2 warframes have had this exact same problem, but neither of those frames got a thread like this stating that such a problem exists and that the toggle option would be removed. Why do a thread like this now? I'm sure people would be completely fine with DE saying ''Yeah, sorry for the bug. We're gonna get on it in January when all the peepz come back to the office.'' Then there would at least be a time frame, currently there isn't even any implications. That's the big thing here.

I would hope DE cares enough about the tennogen creators to fix this asap.

Edited December 19, 2018 by Wyrmius_Prime

[[DE]Taylor]

1 hour ago, Lassie said:

This is simply not OK, It has become expected that tennogen work with prime details, and when this happened to valkyr prime you fixed it. 

I totally understand why it's upsetting as there's a clear precedent for toggles working in the past, but I want to offer a bit of extra clarity here since you mentioned Valkyr. 

The issue with Valkyr Prime details (and other texture issues with Primes) is completely separate from the issue here. Those were set up incorrectly and were a bug -- Mesa's are set up properly, that's not the problem unfortunately. We have never had this problem come up with Prime details on a TennoGen skin since previous Primes stayed fairly true to the original Warframe's model. This is the first time that Prime and the original model are so different that the Prime details simply don't line up properly, resulting in the texture problems that are currently live. 😞 

The toggle is being removed because of how 'broken' the Prime toggle is. That's all the info I have at the moment. 

Edited December 19, 2018 by [DE]Taylor

[MopUpCrewman]

3 hours ago, [DE]Taylor said:

We’ll do our due diligence for future Primes to turn off the toggle prior to release if model discrepancies make the toggle unusable.

Could we get a clarification on what you mean by this? Will the prime toggle be removed before release temporarily until the prime details toggle is fixed? Or will the ability to toggle on prime details with tennogen skins be completely removed for any and all future primes (more detailed primes)?

If it's the latter then that's incredibly concerning for both the players and DE.

Edit: So, it seems the clarification came exactly as I posted and this is seriously problematic.

Edited December 19, 2018 by MopUpCrewman