Mesa Prime Toggle Removal -- RESOLVED!

[WingedCrusade]

I’m okay with this. I’d rather let the prime frames look really gorgeous and have a lot of effort put into them rather than have the primes be hashed out all for the sake of skins that NOT EVERYBODY buys, for the record.

If I want to use the Tennogen skin I’ll just use the tennogen skin, no big deal. The Prime is awesome, it’s like its own deluxe in a way, and the Tennogen skins are awesome. As long as there are metal bits I’ll be fine (once body is separately colored from Helmet, I’ll even be able to use the devil skin parts more and mix and match with them!)

Edited December 19, 2018 by WingedCrusade

[Rannulf]

12 minutes ago, WingedCrusade said:

I’m okay with this. I’d rather let the prime frames look really gorgeous and have a lot of effort put into them rather than have the primes be hashed out all for the sake of skins that NOT EVERYBODY buys, for the record.

If I want to use the Tennogen skin I’ll just use the tennogen skin, no big deal. The Prime is awesome, it’s like its own deluxe in a way, and the Tennogen skins are awesome. As long as there are metal bits I’ll be fine (once body is separately colored from Helmet, I’ll even be able to use the devil skin parts more and mix and match with them!)

The precedent for primes thus far has been set, and that precedent is "All Primes are able to use their prime details on their tennogen skins, or they can turn them off." You see, that last part is important here, for you specifically, because YOU can turn them off if you don't like them. But screw the people who do want them, right? Screw the people who took money out of their wallet to support an DE, and an artist they clearly liked the work of, right? Mind-boggling.

For every primed warframe to be able to use their primed details with their tennogen except Mesa Prime is a slap in the face not only to everyone who loves Mesa, but to everyone who loves Mesa and were looking forward to using their Tennogen skins on Mesa Prime with ALL of the bells and whistles that came with every other Primed Warframe.

For you to say that you're okay with this shows a serious lack of foresight on your part, especially since DE already had an option for people like who you "don't want primed details on their tennogen" with the inclusion of the toggle feature. Encouraging DE to take options away from other people is not just mind-boggling, but it's actively counterproductive to your own interests. DE isn't going to get praise and support by undermining the standards they've already set for themselves, and they're certainly not going to encourage the community to buy primed access or tennogen if they're not willing to provide the proper support for either.

[Vethar]

Soo... Just a reminder the last time I herd them use the term for the time being was when they removed raids and have still not put them back out. Just sayin.

[(PSN)bullet1351]

5 hours ago, [DE]Taylor said:

We’ll do our due diligence for future Primes to turn off the toggle prior to release if model discrepancies make the toggle unusable.  

The thing about doing due diligence is that you consider the existing factors before you make something. The fact that the tennogen skins were not considered during the development is insulting to the community who spent their money on mesa prime and tennogen. But more so the work of the tennogen artists. In future when you are making a prime model it is expected that they work with previous skins.

Edited December 19, 2018 by (PS4)bullet1351

[Snake_Oil]

I will not be buying any future Prime Access packs or Tennogen for Warframes not yet confirmed to have Prime details compatibility if this isn't fixed.

[Shadedraxe]

Please no, just let us keep the options. It’s not hurting anyone. While the devil trigger skin looks terrible with prime mesh, I really like how the Graxx skin blends with it. Mesa prime has way too much decal for my taste. Graxx helps make her torso just a little better in my eyes. I’d hate to lose the chaps on my Graxx. 

[Nox_Terminus]

While I can understand the need as an artist to express your design to the greatest extent possible. Unchecked creativity leads to these exact scenarios. During Mesa Prime's design concepting phase, it should've become apparent that a particular element or change to her base design would make it less likely, or simply incapable of utilizing Tennogen skins. Furthermore the model we see in-game appears to have completely merged the prime details to the base model, which is the most likely culprit here. Did someone press the wrong button during final modeling and this is simply the version we got? Or was it always intended for the model to be effectively impossible to use with Tennogen covering the base model's components?

Regardless of the cause there should've been a clearly worded post as soon as Mesa Prime was revealed that the current model and its specific prime details do not work with Tennogen (that would've been 2 weeks ago), and the assurance that DE would work with the original Tennogen artists to remake versions of their Tennogen specifically for Mesa Prime, and from that point forward, offer the overdesigned model of Mesa Prime to be used for future Tennogen designs. The caveat obviously being that the prime-details of Mesa Prime be untouched. This obviously wouldn't fix the issue immediately, but people would be assured that the problem was being actively fixed.

This methodology would also future-proof issues with overdesigned Primed warframes, and would still allow people to support and enjoy both Warframe and Tennogen creators.

P.S. I do not hate the many people who work to make this game as great as it is, but you've dropped the ball here DE. All you can do is pick it back up and do better. Enjoy your holiday break, its been a hard year.

Edited December 19, 2018 by Nox_Terminus

[TheSapphireDragon]

Not happy about this. The toggle should be left in even with the bug, interesting fashion at least. But thats not even the main point, removing the prime details is not a fix, its lazy. I can understand how it slipped though with a pre-christmas release, but the prime details should be fixed to work with TennoGen, and in future TennoGen should work with new primes. Not doing this is a disservice to those community members who made or bought the skins. 

[UnknownCoffeeRebel]

It's a shame to hear that,I truly hope the team manages to somehow resolve this issue within reasonable time.Take your time,enjoy your holidays and then,well,then consider prioritizing this,at first glance,small issue.

(Lots and lots of people love Mesa,have waited for her prime release and some,like me,even bought tennogen both because they wanted to support and because they loved the idea of primed,say,devil ranger or whatever...People are mad,it's understandable,but don't allow it to dishearten you,concentrate on taking a break for Christmas and then bother worrying about this simple-but-not-really issue with the model)

[Undeadrocker]

Please Properly fix her toggle prime details.

So we dont mean remove the option, fix it to be consistent with how things have been done in the past.

Even if its after the break, i didnt just drop £91 pound to not be able to use my Tennogen. 

Thank you.

Edited December 19, 2018 by Undeadrocker

[Erebus_Nacht]

Even if it looks ridiculous I still want the option to toggle on tennogen, I vote leave the option to toggle the details and you can fix it at some point.

 

 

[NightmareT12]

3 hours ago, Nox_Terminus said:

While I can understand the need as an artist to express your design to the greatest extent possible. Unchecked creativity leads to these exact scenarios. During Mesa Prime's design concepting phase, it should've become apparent that a particular element or change to her base design would make it less likely, or simply incapable of utilizing Tennogen skins. Furthermore the model we see in-game appears to have completely merged the prime details to the base model, which is the most likely culprit here. Did someone press the wrong button during final modeling and this is simply the version we got? Or was it always intended for the model to be effectively impossible to use with Tennogen covering the base model's components? 

Regardless of the cause there should've been a clearly worded post as soon as Mesa Prime was revealed that the current model and its specific prime details do not work with Tennogen (that would've been 2 weeks ago), and the assurance that DE would work with the original Tennogen artists to remake versions of their Tennogen specifically for Mesa Prime, and from that point forward, offer the overdesigned model of Mesa Prime to be used for future Tennogen designs. The caveat obviously being that the prime-details of Mesa Prime be untouched. This obviously wouldn't fix the issue immediately, but people would be assured that the problem was being actively fixed.

This methodology would also future-proof issues with overdesigned Primed warframes, and would still allow people to support and enjoy both Warframe and Tennogen creators.

P.S. I do not hate the many people who work to make this game as great as it is, but you've dropped the ball here DE. All you can do is pick it back up and do better. Enjoy your holiday break, its been a hard year. 

Here's the thing: TennoGen was always meant to work *only* with the normal meshes they offer during the creation process.

The whole Prime details thing started happening once a few frames that got more complex had the Prime bits pop up. At one point, DE forced the correct (base) model. People asked for a toggle, and they delivered. However it has come to my attention that from Vauban onwards the model each time got more problematic, up to the point Chroma's pelt just can't be different from base or else.

However, it seems that back in the day they should have said simply no to the toggle -- sometimes you must say no, as much as a controversy it can come up. That would have solved them lots of dev time that I am aware goes into compatibility, and ultimately this, which was bound to happen sooner or later.

Lastly they should never stop doing what they want for their very own designs because of skins that are designed for the main body. That's just absurd: It just goes against everything that has allowed this game to improve from the single Corpus ship with 8 Warframes up to Fortuna. They should NEVER restrain themselves for their biggest money packs because of skins. Especially given how much better Ray is doing the designs: I just love the way Mesa came out. I just love her. All of his designs since Hydroid just keep going up.

However. Maybe there is a way out. It's going to be longer and not instant, but it should be fine: What if after the new Prime Warframe is announced, DE can give the mesh to the Artists so they can adapt their existing skins moving forward? It's not going to be instant, but you shouldn't have to pay an extra penny and the blending should be even better.

That way you'd end up with 2 versions of the same skin:

• Normal one, uses the normal mesh.
• Prime one, is adapted to the Prime mesh.
• Prime toggle remains for Warframes up to Mesa, onwards it is not present in favor of the solution stated above.

That way DE can do whatever they want with Primes and no one misses out. Just not on release.

Edited December 19, 2018 by NightmareT12

[-1HowLlFalconS1-]

I was watching a friend's livestream, he showed me Mesa Prime looks weird if you equip her Deluxe skin.

[chaotea]

8 hours ago, [DE]Taylor said:

The toggle is being removed because of how 'broken' the Prime toggle is. That's all the info I have at the moment. 

I'd prefer if it didnt get removed. I did it last night and I love the cammo look its giving me. I'd prefer to have this broken version, then maybe a fixed version later, rather than no option at all. After all, its not forced on anyone atm.

[malekas]

I won't pretend to understand the issue with the mesh, but what I'm hearing from this issue is "Never buy Tennogen for a frame that doesn't have a prime". Gotta tell you, that's a lot of tennogen that won't get purchased. This will turn off a lot of creators, and we need a concrete answer on a fix to restore confidence.

[Advent_Cirno]

I dunno, there's something kind of charming about how janky her Graxx skin looks with the prime details toggled on lol

[MrHeolsen]

"no easy fix" how about just giving the tennogen creators access to the prime details and letting them submit custom prime details for their skins if they decide to

[NightmareT12]

19 minutes ago, MrHeolsen said:

"no easy fix" how about just giving the tennogen creators access to the prime details and letting them submit custom prime details for their skins if they decide to 

That's something I advocate for, but I noted earlier this: They should do this post announcement. The reason: Even if they make someone sign a NDA, there's a chance these could leak way, WAY earlier in the design process, which could be a big problematic.

Also serious question: Even if we're all expecting the artists to fix that, who is going to make their time worth it? This is a problematic I'm afraid of as well.

[MrHeolsen]

18 minutes ago, NightmareT12 said:

That's something I advocate for, but I noted earlier this: They should do this post announcement. The reason: Even if they make someone sign a NDA, there's a chance these could leak way, WAY earlier in the design process, which could be a big problematic.

Also serious question: Even if we're all expecting the artists to fix that, who is going to make their time worth it? This is a problematic I'm afraid of as well.

The fact that their skin doesnt look great with prime would stop people from buying it so i'd say they would have atleast some reason to maybe go back and adapt it to the prime version

plus while this probably varies from frame to frame i imagine adapting the skin to the prime doesnt require as much work as making an entire tennogen skin

I'm not expecting artists to fix it but they should really have the option to change prime details if they wish

[NightmareT12]

4 minutes ago, MrHeolsen said:

The fact that their skin doesnt look great with prime would stop people from buying it so i'd say they would have atleast some reason to maybe go back and adapt it to the prime version 

plus while this probably varies from frame to frame i imagine adapting the skin to the prime doesnt require as much work as making an entire tennogen skin 

I'm not expecting artists to fix it but they should really have the option to change prime details if they wish 

Entirely, it's just, well, IDK how many of them can devote some free time to it. But I guess some really do as you mentioned since they do earn some serious money off this.

[Tennmuerti]

Dude what? No that's bad. You literally just to me to stop purchasing tennogen for any future prime frames, because now I don't know if they will work with prime details or not.

[(PSN)Khimsince86]

So.... I've been playing warframe for just under a year I've seen games rise and player base numbers fall yet warframes just grows stronger, so on one little mistake I've never seen so many crybabies come out of the woodwork and straight up throw all thier toys out of the pram over a bug that will be fixed.. if any of you who are crying knew how to code or tried to work on a expansion / update along with prime frame and also while making more frames and weapons etc... the list goes on then you might be allowed to complain but they are just doing thier job they have put thier hands up after people reported it and said a fix is been worked on yet all you do is see the worst out of this...

 

Are they EA with battlefront 2 or have you forg9that already..? Are they making you play a game that's so broken it was heavily criticised and then discounted not even a month after release... no

 

Wind your necks in, pick your toys up and stop having a hissy fit, the fact is sh*t breaks from time to time and it's also been fixed along with all the other things they are working on just back off and let them work giving them grief and threats of no sales won't help anyone and makes you look like a stuck up kid crying for plat.. get over yourselves and wait like the rest of us do.

Fyi Christmas is ment to be a time of year for goodwill and been kind etc..  they are giving us free skins for weapons and glyphs and more to be revealed but you won't cry about getting free stuff will you..?

 

Didn't think so.

 

 

Edited December 19, 2018 by (PS4)Khimsince86
Crappy phone typing

[ZuroTheEvil]

Can we have an option to disable the chaps. Maybe set it as an auxiliary attachment.

[MrHeolsen]

30 minutes ago, (PS4)Khimsince86 said:

So.... I've been playing warframe for just under a year I've seen games rise and player base numbers fall yet warframes just grows stronger, so on one little mistake I've never seen so many crybabies come out of the woodwork and straight up throw all thier toys out of the pram over a bug that will be fixed.. if any of you who are crying knew how to code or tried to work on a expansion / update along with prime frame and also while making more frames and weapons etc... the list goes on then you might be allowed to complain but they are just doing thier job they have put thier hands up after people reported it and said a fix is been worked on yet all you do is see the worst out of this...

 

Are they EA with battlefront 2 or have you forg9that already..? Are they making you play a game that's so broken it was heavily criticised and then discounted not even a month after release... no

 

Wind your necks in, pick your toys up and stop having a hissy fit, the fact is sh*t breaks from time to time and it's also been fixed along with all the other things they are working on just back off and let them work giving them grief and threats of no sales won't help anyone and makes you look like a stuck up kid crying for plat.. get over yourselves and wait like the rest of us do.

Fyi Christmas is ment to be a time of year for goodwill and been kind etc..  they are giving us free skins for weapons and glyphs and more to be revealed but you won't cry about getting free stuff will you..?

 

Didn't think so.

 

 

they've made it clear this isnt just a bug you can fix

they're very vague about whether they're gonna do something about it and thats the main issue here

at best they're implying that they'll do something but they also implied raids would come back so you have to take it with a grain of salt

and if the vague-ness is due to upcoming vacations then they could just tell us

 

at the end of the day there's no reason for them to remove the prime toggle for mesa prime wether they plan on changing anything or not

it only takes away stuff that some people might've liked while the people that didnt like it already had the choice of not using it

 

Also worse companies and/or games existing has and never will be an okay excuse to look past bad decisions made by developers

[CeejAttack]

There's a lot of anger and frustration in this feed, and I understand and see where people are coming from.  Best thing we can do is trust that DE will do what's right.  They have a great history of listening and honoring player feedback.  Just need to stay patient for now, and know that they will keep us updated with what's going to be happening in the future.  

 

Thank you DE for all your hard work! Love you and love this game!