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Redeemer Prime - Why do the bullets not benefit from crit multiplier?


TylerFreeman

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Currently, I just bought the redeemer prime and I like it since its a pretty mean piece of weaponry but theres one thing that bothers me entirely.

You see, I've built this thing for crits, ya know the basic blood rush crit build as does everyone else do but despite working a crit multiplier, which those bullets help build a combo, that they cannot benefit from crit dmg at all.

Why is that the case if the redeemer prime, now at a standard 16% crit chance, can't score a crit from bullets shot?

To me, it feels a bit inconsistent with how I wanted to build it.

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Gunblades used to be able to crit on charged shots / shots fired via Bullet Dance, but even at 3.0x combo multiplier with Blood Rush equipped no crits are visible for some reason. I don’t remember the patch in which this relation was removed, but it defeats the concept in which DE intended to create the Redeemer Prime as the first crit-based gunblade.

Heck, harrowing back to MCGamerCZ’s Critical Gunslinger build I was extremely hyped to check out the Redeemer Prime but not so much now:

 

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Just did some more Simulacrum and in-mission tests, charged shots and shots fired from Bullet Dance still don’t crit even at 2.5x and above combo multiplier with BloodRush. 

The only time it crits, from my experience, is whenever Smeeta activates the Charm effect that boosts crit levels. Or whenever you get into melee range and attack normally.

So... why make Redeemer Prime into the first gunblade that has crit stats when it can’t even crit, DE? Especially on bullets fired from the gunblade itself? Looks, sounds, and smells like a red herring.

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15 minutes ago, Draakendros said:

Ya I guessing because they forgot to or it would just do to much dmg

the latter being suggested is a bit ridiculous, considering the wide arsenal we have that can deal insane amounts of damage. 

I've got catchmoon, which does a lot of damage. I've got a riven on a zaw that lets me hit red crits early and even the paracesis can achieve red crits early no problem.

I think letting redeemer prime have 16% crit chance wouldnt be too insane considering it's also got a large status chance (36%)

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4 minutes ago, TylerFreeman said:

the latter being suggested is a bit ridiculous, considering the wide arsenal we have that can deal insane amounts of damage. 

I've got catchmoon, which does a lot of damage. I've got a riven on a zaw that lets me hit red crits early and even the paracesis can achieve red crits early no problem.

I think letting redeemer prime have 16% crit chance wouldnt be too insane considering it's also got a large status chance (36%)

As a quick note. Redeemer can be used along with Bullet Dance back combo to just shoot like any other weapon. Benefiting from combo counter and condition overload's insane buff the redeemer can deal more damage per shot than a full duplex shot from a tigris prime (if you builded it towards 100% status chance), so in the end, having access to critical hits could really make the weapon just insane, for real insane.

Also, shots from gunblades dont get benefit from acolyte mods at all. No only critical chance, but weeping wounds also dont increase the status chance (tested on a situation where my status chance should be above 200% and still random pellets not proccing while a 100% status chance build can proc stat on every single one).

Yesterday I was mad at that, but after a bit of testing and building, Bullet Dance + Condition Overload + 100% status build + Primed Fury makes the Tigris Prime's per shot damage looks like a childs toy.
And ofc you can use high noon and build towards melee combat with a more classic build thats an option too.

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4 minutes ago, (PS4)Lei-Lei_23 said:

Redeemer Prime has a base 28% Status Chance, @TylerFreeman.

ah thank you, I hadn't checked recently

 

3 minutes ago, KittySkin said:

As a quick note. Redeemer can be used along with Bullet Dance back combo to just shoot like any other weapon. Benefiting from combo counter and condition overload's insane buff the redeemer can deal more damage per shot than a full duplex shot from a tigris prime (if you builded it towards 100% status chance), so in the end, having access to critical hits could really make the weapon just insane, for real insane.

Also, shots from gunblades dont get benefit from acolyte mods at all. No only critical chance, but weeping wounds also dont increase the status chance (tested on a situation where my status chance should be above 200% and still random pellets not proccing while a 100% status chance build can proc stat on every single one).

Yesterday I was mad at that, but after a bit of testing and building, Bullet Dance + Condition Overload + 100% status build + Primed Fury makes the Tigris Prime's per shot damage looks like a childs toy.
And ofc you can use high noon and build towards melee combat with a more classic build thats an option too.

Still, shouldn't there be some build consistency?

They buffed it to have 16% crit, I want to utilize that option but can't. If anything, I'd like some closure from DE about this weird issue but even then, looks to be redundant if it's intended to not gain benefits from blood rush.

I might try using sacrificial mods to see if there'll be anything different sometime later but I'm honestly having both fingers crossed if anything.

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9 minutes ago, TylerFreeman said:

ah thank you, I hadn't checked recently

 

Still, shouldn't there be some build consistency?

They buffed it to have 16% crit, I want to utilize that option but can't. If anything, I'd like some closure from DE about this weird issue but even then, looks to be redundant if it's intended to not gain benefits from blood rush.

I might try using sacrificial mods to see if there'll be anything different sometime later but I'm honestly having both fingers crossed if anything.

Sacrificial also dont work on shots. Shots cant crit unless some bizzare conditions like a smeeta buff (the one that can make abilities crit too).

IDK about build consistency, I like the fact that theres some weapons that needs to get investigated and tested in order to take advantage on theire mechanics.

Redeemer for instance if you get 100% status chance, you get 10 procs per shot, thas way higher than any single melee weapon in game.

The critical chance for me (even when I expected to use it on charged shots) seemed usefull for quick melee, I consider it like the critical chance on akbronco prime or tigris prime, a chance of "oh, nice, it died a hit before expected" than anything else, unless as I said, builded towards High Noon heavy melee.

Take into consideration that with current damage + combo multiplier benefit the weapon hits like a truck, so with blood rush and considering limitless ammo, it could en being the only "ranged weapon" in game. I guess than DE wants to avoid that 😛

Overall, I think they should revisit its stats and either remove critical chance and critical damage and increase attack speed or base damage in order to make it more functional or makes shots from high noon's combos benefit from blood rush and weeping wonds since they are part of a heavy melee stance (this last one its the option that I like the most haha).

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3 hours ago, TylerFreeman said:

ah thank you, I hadn't checked recently

 

Still, shouldn't there be some build consistency?

They buffed it to have 16% crit, I want to utilize that option but can't. If anything, I'd like some closure from DE about this weird issue but even then, looks to be redundant if it's intended to not gain benefits from blood rush.

I might try using sacrificial mods to see if there'll be anything different sometime later but I'm honestly having both fingers crossed if anything.

Screenshot_20181219-095152_zps347wq08b.p

Here is my Riven 100% status chance CO Redeemer Prime build. 

Here it is in action: 

 

1:10 is it's slam attack I absolutely love. 

So in the meantime a CO build can work nicely. 

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5 minutes ago, KittySkin said:

Sacrificial also dont work on shots. Shots cant crit unless some bizzare conditions like a smeeta buff (the one that can make abilities crit too).

IDK about build consistency, I like the fact that theres some weapons that needs to get investigated and tested in order to take advantage on theire mechanics.

Redeemer for instance if you get 100% status chance, you get 10 procs per shot, thas way higher than any single melee weapon in game.

The critical chance for me (even when I expected to use it on charged shots) seemed usefull for quick melee, I consider it like the critical chance on akbronco prime or tigris prime, a chance of "oh, nice, it died a hit before expected" than anything else, unless as I said, builded towards High Noon heavy melee.

Take into consideration that with current damage + combo multiplier benefit the weapon hits like a truck, so with blood rush and considering limitless ammo, it could en being the only "ranged weapon" in game. I guess than DE wants to avoid that 😛

Overall, I think they should revisit its stats and either remove critical chance and critical damage and increase attack speed or base damage in order to make it more functional or makes shots from high noon's combos benefit from blood rush and weeping wonds since they are part of a heavy melee stance (this last one its the option that I like the most haha).

It just feels like an overall disappointment and misleading for the most part.

Status gets a free pass but critical doesn't which makes it entirely redundant though.

I just kinda hope that this won't be overlooked or if melee 3.0 comes around by then, I'm not completely confident they'll do anything about it but I'll be optimistic at least

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7 minutes ago, TylerFreeman said:

It just feels like an overall disappointment and misleading for the most part.

Status gets a free pass but critical doesn't which makes it entirely redundant though.

I just kinda hope that this won't be overlooked or if melee 3.0 comes around by then, I'm not completely confident they'll do anything about it but I'll be optimistic at least

Lets hope for that haha, the gunblade as a whole need a pass

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1 hour ago, TylerFreeman said:

It just feels like an overall disappointment and misleading for the most part.

Status gets a free pass but critical doesn't which makes it entirely redundant though.

I just kinda hope that this won't be overlooked or if melee 3.0 comes around by then, I'm not completely confident they'll do anything about it but I'll be optimistic at least

Gunblades used to crit pretty often up until u20.2.4 where shots fired from gunblades were no longer silent and became alarming. I suppose at the time a lot of players believed that gunblade shots were able to crit but was actually just yellow crits displayed via stealth attacks at an unalarmed state.

Even then, and supposedly even to this day, the combo multiplier genuinely never granted benefits to gunblade shots via Blood Rush or Weeping Wounds. Still, now that we have a gunblade that has crit stats with the Redeemer Prime, it’s a good opportunity for DE to look into acolyte mod interactions with gunblade shots and see if something can be done about it. Because as it stands, the crit stats on the Redeemer Prime are meaningless for what a lot of players intend to use gunblades for.

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1 hour ago, (PS4)Lei-Lei_23 said:

Gunblades used to crit pretty often up until u20.2.4 where shots fired from gunblades were no longer silent and became alarming. I suppose at the time a lot of players believed that gunblade shots were able to crit but was actually just yellow crits displayed via stealth attacks at an unalarmed state.

Even then, and supposedly even to this day, the combo multiplier genuinely never granted benefits to gunblade shots via Blood Rush or Weeping Wounds. Still, now that we have a gunblade that has crit stats with the Redeemer Prime, it’s a good opportunity for DE to look into acolyte mod interactions with gunblade shots and see if something can be done about it. Because as it stands, the crit stats on the Redeemer Prime are meaningless for what a lot of players intend to use gunblades for.

well...

Might as well just rely on blinding enemies with excal if I wanna get the most out of dmg output.

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I'm not sure if we should expect a change to this any time soon, either, since even though it keeps being slid back, the big melee rework is SUPPOSED to be on the horizon here, and might make the whole combo/blood rush thing irrelevant depending on what they do.

definitely disappointed for now, though, I was looking forward to a good crit shotgun sword.

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Any shot don't crit? it says on wikia that charged shot has critical and critical damage, I just bought a cc/cd redeemer riven for 1.5K PL, LoL, when I read on wikia "Gunblade shots can't critically hit".

 

Plz, tell me charged shots crit or the High Moon stance back combo do, I still have to farm the redeemer. It doesn't say nothing about not crit on normal redeemer wikia page. Hope it is a bug.

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8 hours ago, MPonder said:

Any shot don't crit? it says on wikia that charged shot has critical and critical damage, I just bought a cc/cd redeemer riven for 1.5K PL, LoL, when I read on wikia "Gunblade shots can't critically hit".

 

Plz, tell me charged shots crit or the High Moon stance back combo do, I still have to farm the redeemer. It doesn't say nothing about not crit on normal redeemer wikia page. Hope it is a bug.

Charged shots or shots fired via Bullet Dance don’t crit. The only time crits are applied is from outside sources like Smeeta’s Charm buff.

edit: I see players on PS4 for the past two days trying to sell Redeemer Rivens with crit stats, range stats, slide crit, etc. Don’t be fooled by their advertisements that “this is a god roll!” before looking at gunblade shot mechanics in-depth.

The only concern with regards to Gunblade Rivens is negative range with a 100%+ stat, which for some reason prevents shots fired to hit targets at range. Anything below negative 100% range will still hit targets and will not adjust damage fall-off, since those mechanics for shots fired remain within the realm of Flightspeed mechanics.

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Doesn't really make sense for it to not crit. There aren't many weapons in the game that can't crit, and this doesn't seem like it should be one of them. I hope they change this, but considering Redeemer Prime is already out, I imagine they already looked at it and, for some reason, decided not to do anything about it. 

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although not really related to this topic, I have also used glaive prime extensively to compliment the proto costume set. 

Built it for crit as well

sqix6lQ.png

yet, I cannot land a single critical hit on it's explosion that still baffles me as to why it does that.

https://imgur.com/a/GtvabuQ

Oh sure, it's fine when it hits someone but it's still weird the explosion is literally 0% crit chance and cannot benefit from this build.

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