Redeemer Prime - Why do the bullets not benefit from crit multiplier?

[TylerFreeman]

On 2018-12-26 at 3:21 PM, m0b1us1 said:

It can one shot level 160 corrupted gunners and bombards without crit... 

I think it's just fine without crit. 

I'd still like it to have some form of consistency in terms of making builds for it.

Even if I have to use excal to fully utilize the stealth-crits

Although, after watching the video, it's still looks like its capable of critting on shots. I'm somewhat confused but capping heads enables crits? I dunno, I'd probably need to do more testing to try and get those criticals

Edited December 28, 2018 by TylerFreeman

[vector77]

2 hours ago, TylerFreeman said:

Although, after watching the video, it's still looks like its capable of critting on shots. I'm somewhat confused but capping heads enables crits?

Yeah, something seems wrong, I can't even oneshot lvl145 corrupted bombards and heavy gunners with the same build. Seems like there is some bug or some weird interaction where rad+viral redeemer shots can crit sometimes, it did crit for me once and it allowed me to oneshot a bombard, but that happened only once in about 20 tries. Anyway, for me redeemer prime seems overhyped, yeah it has very high damage, but it is slow and unwieldy to use, in normal gameplay you will probably kill hordes of enemies faster with some other weapons, though maybe it is just my personal bias against that weapon.

[m0b1us1]

7 hours ago, TylerFreeman said:

I'd still like it to have some form of consistency in terms of making builds for it.

Even if I have to use excal to fully utilize the stealth-crits

Although, after watching the video, it's still looks like its capable of critting on shots. I'm somewhat confused but capping heads enables crits? I dunno, I'd probably need to do more testing to try and get those criticals

What do you mean by consistency? The build itself is consistent. It is a fairly normal build for a status weapon. The video proves it is possible to see absurd damage. 

I believe the yellow numbers in this case are due to him using channeled shots, getting bonus damage from headshots  or applying a status. 

You really don't need crits. Tigris prime has some crit, but no one builds it for crit because how status shot guns work. Same thing for redeemer p, status will vastly outperform crit. After seeing that vid, do you really think it needs more? 

[TylerFreeman]

3 hours ago, m0b1us1 said:

What do you mean by consistency? The build itself is consistent. It is a fairly normal build for a status weapon. The video proves it is possible to see absurd damage. 

I believe the yellow numbers in this case are due to him using channeled shots, getting bonus damage from headshots  or applying a status. 

You really don't need crits. Tigris prime has some crit, but no one builds it for crit because how status shot guns work. Same thing for redeemer p, status will vastly outperform crit. After seeing that vid, do you really think it needs more? 

Yes. Because why not? We've got spin2win zaws/whips so I think giving redeemer even more of an edge than it does here doesn't seem that wrong or at least until melee 3.0 lands.

Like, why give it 16% crit chance if those bullets are programmed to not do that? What's the point if it can't do that? If it was meant to be a status weapon (Which it excels at btw) then why am I not allowed to build for crits? It should've remained at 5% like the original redeemer.

Although I am definitely gonna try channelling shots with it since I haven't relied on that lately.

[vector77]

3 hours ago, m0b1us1 said:

I believe the yellow numbers in this case are due to him using channeled shots, getting bonus damage from headshots  or applying a status. 

Well, there is no special effects and the energy is not consumed, so it is not a channeling, but something else.

[m0b1us1]

2 hours ago, TylerFreeman said:

Yes. Because why not? We've got spin2win zaws/whips so I think giving redeemer even more of an edge than it does here doesn't seem that wrong or at least until melee 3.0 lands.

Like, why give it 16% crit chance if those bullets are programmed to not do that? What's the point if it can't do that? If it was meant to be a status weapon (Which it excels at btw) then why am I not allowed to build for crits? It should've remained at 5% like the original redeemer.

Although I am definitely gonna try channelling shots with it since I haven't relied on that lately.

Spin 2 win weapons need a combo counter and multiple hits to kill enemies at high levels. Along with a mod that is only used for slide attacks. Can't really compare the two. The video showed a level 160 getting one shot at 0 combo counter. Take a spin to win weapon and one shot a level 160 enemy at 0 combo.

Why wouldn't they give it crit? There was only 2 gunblades in the game and they both had horrible stats. So buff all the stats to bring them in line with the other big name melee weapons. What if they wanted to make the melee strikes feel stronger due to the poor range while making sure that the shotgun aspect wouldn't be absolutely busted? Is there any value to be gained from making it crit at this time? It has plenty of power already. 

The important thing is that you get 100% status and condition overload. 

[m0b1us1]

2 hours ago, vector77 said:

Well, there is no special effects and the energy is not consumed, so it is not a channeling, but something else.

Yeah that's why I also said that it could also be due to getting a headshot or applying a status. They changed what gives yellow numbers a while ago and I didn't really pay attention.

Either way, we know it's not crit and has no problem taking those enemies down. So there is no doubt that this weapons has more than enough power.

[TylerFreeman]

26 minutes ago, m0b1us1 said:

Spin 2 win weapons need a combo counter and multiple hits to kill enemies at high levels. Along with a mod that is only used for slide attacks. Can't really compare the two. The video showed a level 160 getting one shot at 0 combo counter. Take a spin to win weapon and one shot a level 160 enemy at 0 combo.

Why wouldn't they give it crit? There was only 2 gunblades in the game and they both had horrible stats. So buff all the stats to bring them in line with the other big name melee weapons. What if they wanted to make the melee strikes feel stronger due to the poor range while making sure that the shotgun aspect wouldn't be absolutely busted? Is there any value to be gained from making it crit at this time? It has plenty of power already. 

The important thing is that you get 100% status and condition overload. 

The point being that spin2win weapons can easily CC by just how insane their trash mob clearing power is, the only thing I inherently know they'll struggle against are heavies but most melee weapons (Zaws, Paracesis) can achieve red crit to dominate them just as easy, if they aren't a bombard of course.

So shame on me for thinking that I was able to build for crit just from assuming 16% critical chance it had but I guess I was entirely misled on that.

Being that you're only able to spawn 160 enemies in simulacrum/ stay long enough in indefinite missions, honestly makes it sound like you're holding an infinite ammo euphona prime but that is honestly a rare occasion when it comes down to the main course that's spread out through the starchart, where almost practically the entire weapons we have can do away with enemies up to at least 80-100 lvl enemies.

like I would get that redeemer's strength is massively crazy but the important thing to take note of is that you have to aim it like every other gun. 

I agree with you on the aspect that it performs just fine with CO and 100% status but personally, I've grown so used to seeing yellow numbers that it's almost cathartic. 

[NeopetsMaster4432]

It would be a pretty good change if they reduced it's base damage to like a fourth of what it currently is, then allowed it to crit.
That way it would be able to crit like other weapons, and it's damage would still be comparable to even Tigris Prime-chan.

Edited December 30, 2018 by NeopetsMaster4432

[m0b1us1]

On 2018-12-28 at 4:00 PM, TylerFreeman said:

The point being that spin2win weapons can easily CC by just how insane their trash mob clearing power is, the only thing I inherently know they'll struggle against are heavies but most melee weapons (Zaws, Paracesis) can achieve red crit to dominate them just as easy, if they aren't a bombard of course.

So shame on me for thinking that I was able to build for crit just from assuming 16% critical chance it had but I guess I was entirely misled on that.

Being that you're only able to spawn 160 enemies in simulacrum/ stay long enough in indefinite missions, honestly makes it sound like you're holding an infinite ammo euphona prime but that is honestly a rare occasion when it comes down to the main course that's spread out through the starchart, where almost practically the entire weapons we have can do away with enemies up to at least 80-100 lvl enemies.

like I would get that redeemer's strength is massively crazy but the important thing to take note of is that you have to aim it like every other gun. 

I agree with you on the aspect that it performs just fine with CO and 100% status but personally, I've grown so used to seeing yellow numbers that it's almost cathartic. 

I think I see the issue. You want it to work more like spin 2 win weapons so it clears trash mobs faster. But the thing is, it's not made for that. Even without the shotgun mode it's low melee range makes it a one target kind of melee.

It can crit, on its melee strike. The shotgun part doesn't need it at all.

Exactly. That's my point however. If it had no trouble clearing level 160s, then why would you buff it so it can clear level 100s faster? It can already clear them with no trouble unless you are trying to snipe with it. 

Making the shots crit wouldn't change that you have to aim with it. 

Well not to sound rude, but that sounds more like a 'you' problem, not a problem with the weapon. Not every weapon works with crit. The lesion and Tigris prime still kill enemies faster than the vast majority of other weapons and both are status based. Crit is not the only stat you should care about.

[TylerFreeman]

5 hours ago, m0b1us1 said:

I think I see the issue. You want it to work more like spin 2 win weapons so it clears trash mobs faster. But the thing is, it's not made for that. Even without the shotgun mode it's low melee range makes it a one target kind of melee.

It can crit, on its melee strike. The shotgun part doesn't need it at all.

Exactly. That's my point however. If it had no trouble clearing level 160s, then why would you buff it so it can clear level 100s faster? It can already clear them with no trouble unless you are trying to snipe with it. 

Making the shots crit wouldn't change that you have to aim with it. 

Well not to sound rude, but that sounds more like a 'you' problem, not a problem with the weapon. Not every weapon works with crit. The lesion and Tigris prime still kill enemies faster than the vast majority of other weapons and both are status based. Crit is not the only stat you should care about.

What?

That's not exactly what I want. I'm only giving an example that I don't find it entirely bad if the redeemer prime COULD crit. Whether or not I mix both styles of melee combat but it's really just a pocket shotgun. 

Hell, I use the catchmoon kitgun to mow down mobs since that's literally an arca plasmor.

But even if it were enabled to crit and given a chance to snipe, there'd probably be falloff or just something to offset it so it doesn't become the next 'sniper-shotgun' like in the old days like I get that there needs to be some reasonable balance here.

It's fine, you didn't intentionally sound rude since you're just pointing something out but thing is, I am keeping a status build on redeemer prime until whoever at DE decides what to do with the feedback on this weapon considering, again I have to keep saying this, that giving this thing 16% crit and not letting it crit through shots COULD be a hidden decision on their part.

The only times I do care about status is if it's my moa/sentinel using the cryotra to constantly stun enemies but that's another topic for another day.

[(NSW)dennymkv]

17 hours ago, TylerFreeman said:

What?

That's not exactly what I want. I'm only giving an example that I don't find it entirely bad if the redeemer prime COULD crit. Whether or not I mix both styles of melee combat but it's really just a pocket shotgun. 

Hell, I use the catchmoon kitgun to mow down mobs since that's literally an arca plasmor.

But even if it were enabled to crit and given a chance to snipe, there'd probably be falloff or just something to offset it so it doesn't become the next 'sniper-shotgun' like in the old days like I get that there needs to be some reasonable balance here.

It's fine, you didn't intentionally sound rude since you're just pointing something out but thing is, I am keeping a status build on redeemer prime until whoever at DE decides what to do with the feedback on this weapon considering, again I have to keep saying this, that giving this thing 16% crit and not letting it crit through shots COULD be a hidden decision on their part.

The only times I do care about status is if it's my moa/sentinel using the cryotra to constantly stun enemies but that's another topic for another day.

Well, a Gun-Blade means Gun+Blade, both melee and range weapon at the same time it’s the point and romance of this type weapon. If you are just looking for a infinity ammo shotgun, you are missing the fun of these gun-blades. The increase in Crit chance and multipler is clearly an encouragement to build toward high noon and to add melee strikes into your fighting style, a mixture of gunshots and heavy slash, which is the coolest part I think gun blades have. Really such a hard thing to understand? You guys really don’t know how to make fun of gun-BLADE. Go to play some metal gears and let Snake teach you the charm of CQC

[Sharkgoblin]

use condition overload + dual stats + drifting contact +shattering impact

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

3 hours ago, COATTOQUALUNQUE said:

use condition overload + dual stats + drifting contact +shattering impact

Shattering Impact doesn’t work on Redeemer’s gunblade shots, since it doesn’t deal IPS damage. The primary damage type is Blast and whatever elemental combo you plan on using.

[Sharkgoblin]

19 minutes ago, (PS4)Lei-Lei_23 said:

Shattering Impact doesn’t work on Redeemer’s gunblade shots, since it doesn’t deal IPS damage. The primary damage type is Blast and whatever elemental combo you plan on using.

damn i keep forgetting about that reedemer gunshot is blast damage 

[TylerFreeman]

4 hours ago, (NSW)dennymkv said:

Well, a Gun-Blade means Gun+Blade, both melee and range weapon at the same time it’s the point and romance of this type weapon. If you are just looking for a infinity ammo shotgun, you are missing the fun of these gun-blades. The increase in Crit chance and multipler is clearly an encouragement to build toward high noon and to add melee strikes into your fighting style, a mixture of gunshots and heavy slash, which is the coolest part I think gun blades have. Really such a hard thing to understand? You guys really don’t know how to make fun of gun-BLADE. Go to play some metal gears and let Snake teach you the charm of CQC

Fun is completely subjective, just so you know.

The encouragement to even use high noon kind've falls flat since I just prefer to shoot things with Redeemer. Sure, the flair is pretty awesome but the melee range is short so a well-aimed shot can do an enemy in.

I don't get why you're trying to inject metal gear or snake into this since it and Warframe are two completely different genres. Last I checked, this whole thing was a power-trip so really, referring to my first point, that I make my own entertainment with any 'cqc' weapon like red-crit Paracesis.

[(NSW)dennymkv]

5 hours ago, TylerFreeman said:

Fun is completely subjective, just so you know.

The encouragement to even use high noon kind've falls flat since I just prefer to shoot things with Redeemer. Sure, the flair is pretty awesome but the melee range is short so a well-aimed shot can do an enemy in.

I don't get why you're trying to inject metal gear or snake into this since it and Warframe are two completely different genres. Last I checked, this whole thing was a power-trip so really, referring to my first point, that I make my own entertainment with any 'cqc' weapon like red-crit Paracesis.

So again, it’s more a “You” problem rather than the weapon’s problem. You are just complaining about the weapon can’t work as you wished. 

I included metal gear to show you the fun of cutting and shooting at the same time, but again, your only concern is that one way of having fun.

Melee cuts are short ranged indeed, but why complain about it when you can shoot enemies in range ? Melee for close combat and shoots for range fight, that’s how a gun blade is supposed to work. 

[TylerFreeman]

2 hours ago, (NSW)dennymkv said:

So again, it’s more a “You” problem rather than the weapon’s problem. You are just complaining about the weapon can’t work as you wished. 

I included metal gear to show you the fun of cutting and shooting at the same time, but again, your only concern is that one way of having fun.

Melee cuts are short ranged indeed, but why complain about it when you can shoot enemies in range ? Melee for close combat and shoots for range fight, that’s how a gun blade is supposed to work. 

It's more about a complaint that I want to express in regards that I'd like to build for crit. Whether or not this was intended is entirely up to DE's decision and say but so far, it has been silent during the holidays so I'll wait until they acknowledge this light 'issue'. It's the least they can offer so I don't mind discussing this really.

But here's the thing, I'm not playing metal gear. I'm playing Warframe. That's a bit of redundancy to try and compare who's way of 'having fun' is the better option.

To add onto this, I can just slap on a primed range mod, use it on a zaw with a maiming strike riven and just go to town, spinning through the place like a steel maelstrom. That's fun. Clearing a whole group of enemies is fun.

I just figured I'd hop onto the redeemer prime for, 'elegance' if that can be called as such. And for me, and this is probably a big stretch that I think most people like using the shotgun blast rather than just mixing things up with melee strikes. It's a style I'm clinging to but hey, I've no problem with the rest of the gear I'm carrying.

But even then, even if blood rush isn't allowed, I'd be inclined to think that the normal crit mods would work but they don't. They don't make it clear that 'hey just fyi, this gun cant crit but it can status the hell out of enemies, have fun'