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Who thought using Archguns as a gimmick and giving them a 10min timer was a good idea? 😭


BL4CKN0ISE
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This is honestly the biggest letdown I've dealt with in this game. Archguns are a complete joke. Why are they like this? Why are they just a simple gimmick? I don't understand the logic. They aren't more powerful then normal weapons and instead of making them more powerful and then balancing other aspects, you just make them have low ammo, a timer(TEN MINUTES😞) after you run out of ammo, and I can't use certain abilities. 

I have to ask this question. What do you think would've been the problem with just letting us equip them as they are in Archwing missions? Maybe we would move a bit slower or something. They weren't OP weapons to begin with. A few of the Archguns feel really powerful during Archwing Missions, but that's not the case when fighting normal enemies and definitely not a huge boss. The  SLOWEST part of fighting an Orb Mother is when I'm forced to use this crappy version of my Archgun. I can't even believe this exists. 

I use to get annoyed when people said "DE doesn't play their own game", but now I understand why people say that. There is no way you guys actually enjoy this, so why would you make it this way for us? It's terrible. 👎👎 

Please fix ASAP. 😊

Edited by BL4CKN0ISE
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15 minutes ago, HellVOps said:

If you pick up heavy ammo pick up(its a bigger yellow ammo pack), then the timer resets and you can use it again.

Yeah, I figured that out finally.

I'm still bothered by the gimmicky aspect tho. They're just for the Orb Mother. Why can't they just be heavy guns and everything that would naturally go with that? I mean of course they should be great against a huge boss like the Orb Mother or Eidolons, but that should just be based on the fact that they're heavy guns. It should just be natural. DE is just forcing us to use Archguns for a specific part of the fight. They're basically like amps. Same thing as before, except it's even more frustrating IMO. 

DE made them strong by making them the only thing that can damage it during that phase. It's just a weak way to develop content or implement a new mechanic. It's basically time-gating.

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31 minutes ago, BL4CKN0ISE said:

Yeah, I figured that out finally.

You figured out something they explicitly tell you?

31 minutes ago, BL4CKN0ISE said:

Why can't they just be heavy guns and everything that would naturally go with that?

This is the content they were working on. They weren't going to go through all their other content to make sure it worked outside the things they are focused on.

32 minutes ago, BL4CKN0ISE said:

It should just be natural.

Natural is non-existent in a video game.

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33 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

You figured out something they explicitly tell you?

This is the content they were working on. They weren't going to go through all their other content to make sure it worked outside the things they are focused on.

Natural is non-existent in a video game.

  1. Yes, very interesting point you made. 🤨
  2. Gimmick. Yes, you understand now. 
  3. What are you talking about? "Natural" exists in almost every video game to some degree.  In Warframe, a secondary operates like a secondary. It only takes one hand to use a single secondary, so naturally DE allows us to use with Glaives. It's a feature/game mechanic they didn't need to add, but it's a fun idea and it naturally makes sense. A primary takes two hands to use. Typically they will do more damage, have more ammo, etc. DE could make them less powerful or have snipers with no scopes, but that wouldn't be as natural as they are now. In Warframe Heavy guns are amps for Orb Mothers. Just a wasted opportunity. 
  4. Hopefully one day we'll be able to read an actual opinion from you instead your typical replies. Classic peterc3: "Because that's what DE wanted to do." Thanks for the input. 🤣
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  • Archguns even after the buffs/new mods come no where close to modded guns
  • they run out of ammo fast, conserving ammo punishes using a minigun like a minigun because otherwise you're hit with-
  • A ten minute cool down for running out of ammo that only drops in orb fights
  • this cooldown effectively makes them a one time use item
  • they are not fun to use with the threat of a cooldown

if left the way they are archguns will go right back to the forgotten content corner, but at least those promo pictures looked cool

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The issue I see with making them just a toggle or something you can outright equip is that they're not being added as a new mechanic but specifically as a new mechanic for the Orb Mother fights.

If it was a toggle with no cooldown then you would have access to another weapon slot to mod for different damage types against the Orbs. Plus we would now have access to four different weapons at all times in normal missions which might not sound like an issue but it could be a balance issue going forward.

If they could just be equipped normally then they could never be made better than normal primaries else they would risk replacing them. If they worked like DE said in the past (at least I think they said this, might have just been a rumor) and they took up your primary and secondary slots to use then they would be worthless in the Orb Mother fights because of having fewer total damage types to use.

 

They're already tied to the story or fighting the Profit Taker so removing its "gimmick" status in them would just make the entire mission to get one pointless. I'd say that the best way to fix it currently is to add enemies to the rest of the game that use archwing class weapons that drop the ammo pickups as well.

Also I suspect that we can't rule archwing weapons out as being outright bad just yet. You can't really make a valid comparison between the performance of one in archwing to it's performance outside of it and I doubt most people have forma'd their archguns or even have all the mods yet.

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It would be a lot better if the cooldown is something like 60 seconds or 120, while finding the large ammo will reset the timer, its quite a nuisance to do so with all the things going on at that time (enemies shooting at you, barriers flying, explosions everywhere).

Alternatively, it would be nice if they can have a corresponding ammo pizza (or just let the normal one work on them) that will allow us to restore our bullets.

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Like sky-wing. Could be a feature with much potential but oh well just make it useless by adding non-sense requirement.

And then took 1 year for them to notice the problem and fix it by removing the requirement that's not required in the first place.

Also I just found out you actually can't use arch-guns on sky-wing which is like what they were designed for and it makes everything even more stupid.

Edited by Marvelous_A
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While Arch-guns are the current disappointment with Arch-Wing fighting, I believe the real problem is the lack of 6-axis controller settings needing to effectively play in 3D air fights.

6-axis controllers (HOTAS) aren't cheap, either. They're more expensive than a fancy dancy Logitech G keyboard AND a fancy dancy Razer mouse (and would need extra desk space to use them, too).

This is why space games have a smaller niche player base, too. While parkour skills on Terra Firma can be done with just 4-axis controls of the keyboard and mouse, 3D space flight NEEDS a 6-axis controller to effectively move. It feels clunky and NOT fun because 4-axis controls makes it clunky in flight (it's missing controls for altitude and descent), more so with micro gravity settings (can't stop on a dime in micro gravity, without retro jets, too).

It will need dedicated controls page (i.e., how Elite Dangerous has done it) just for maneuvering, to make it a worthwhile sub-game. Especially if DE will ever going to get us to maneuver the Liset to fly from point-to-point.

The guns and their mechanics is trivial to Arch-wing flight mechanics itself. It's a real pain to use Arch-Wings in Orb and PoE, due to the lack of altitude and descent keys (WASD keys aren't enough).

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1 hour ago, BL4CKN0ISE said:

Hopefully one day we'll be able to read an actual opinion from you instead your typical replies. Classic peterc3: "Because that's what DE wanted to do." Thanks for the input. 🤣

You haven't realized that he is DE's bot? 

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2 hours ago, BL4CKN0ISE said:

DE made them strong by making them the only thing that can damage it during that phase. It's just a weak way to develop content or implement a new mechanic. It's basically time-gating.

Not to mention that even using them is arguably behind a plat wall (yes I know you can get them from alerts etc). 

Just to be able to use the archwing guns in the fight you need an archwing gun with a catalyst on it and unless an alert pops up the only way to get one at the moment is plat.  Considering how 'unloved' archwing is the odds of players not using a catalyst on an archwing gun is pretty high imo. 

Mind you I feel a lot this update seems to be pushing towards plat purchases but that's a different topic. 

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6 minutes ago, RX-3DR said:

Don't know about you but my Velocitus kills the Terra Ambulas in a single shot so I don't think a 10 minute cooldown is that unwarranted.

So can other setups though. Considering that you can only use it once every other survival round at most, it really ought to be something quite ludicrous. An ace in the hole something that unequivocally makes you into an unstoppable beast - but something you can't rely on because of the massive recharge. Consider how potent a well-used Ultimate is in Overwatch, or how destructive a properly-used super is in Destiny - those are only a 5-ish minute cooldown and can be sped up. We're waiting twice that for a less significant power boost.

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1 minute ago, Loza03 said:

So can other setups though. Considering that you can only use it once every other survival round at most, it really ought to be something quite ludicrous. An ace in the hole something that unequivocally makes you into an unstoppable beast - but something you can't rely on because of the massive recharge. Consider how potent a well-used Ultimate is in Overwatch, or how destructive a properly-used super is in Destiny - those are only a 5-ish minute cooldown and can be sped up. We're waiting twice that for a less significant power boost.

Because you get to keep your Archgun after calling it down and emptying 1 magazine and you can mod it for up to double the ammo reserve. In Destiny 2, even if you had ways to extend you super, it would still expire, whether you have anything to shoot at or not.

Personally, I'd rather that you reduce the cooldown through picking up ammo and reducing it by 5 seconds per box or something rather than a flat cooldown reduction to something ridiculous like 2 minutes.

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i was really hyped for the idea of using archwing weapons on land , but having them tied to a consumable killed it , what i expected is to just to use them as  primaries , the gravimag thingy seems good , but the consumable , hell no ... oh yeah and the 10 minute cooldown is just a pain

Edited by TEK-5
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3 hours ago, TEK-5 said:

i was really hyped for the idea of using archwing weapons on land , but having them tied to a consumable killed it , what i expected is to just to use them as  primaries , the gravimag thingy seems good , but the consumable , hell no ... oh yeah and the 10 minute cooldown is just a pain

It's infinite use.

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