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[Breaking News] Warframe Can Be Fun


notionphil
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Yes, you read that right!

 

In addition to our favorite game being full of RNG grinding, frustratingly unbalanced characters/abilities/gear and supersonic power creep...it's apparently full of FUN as well.

 

Who knew?!

 

I was running Illiad for the Xth time trying to finally get that Miter blade to drop (bc i just luurrve farming weapon downgrades). Midway during the mission, netcode borked out migrating me to host my own server.

 

Crap. I was a rank 15 Nyx with two weapons under rank 10 (with a few formas), staring down the barrel of a level 40+ mission and TWO bosses. But, hey. WF is easy right, I'll just run and cast an ult a few times and....

 

BAM. Dead. By a Grineer Eviscerator.

 

No prob, I'll just revive and one shot.... BAM. Dead by the SAME Eviscerator and his Hellion buddies. And he wasn't even corpse camping. I was just SO used to being lazy and OP that I paid zero attention to my combat surroundings. Because I never really had to.

 

Realizing that I could actually die at any time....I proceeded through the rest of the level tactically, killing enemies at alarm terminals because I couldn't afford to be constantly outgunned, using mindcontrol (power1) instead of chaos (power 3) to conserve....I didn't have a team full of Siphons to keep me maxed on E at all times.

 

When I encountered too many Heavies in an open area, I was able to mindcontrol a Hellion who unleashed rockets, taking them down. My decisions were meaningful. The wrong power, move or weapon choice (flux or bronco prime) and I was on my back.

 

Finally...I reached the bosses. With only one revive remaining, this was a life-or-death struggle. I was NOT going to let those glitchy, bugged slimeballes stand in the way of my Miter Blade. I knew that a frontal assualt would mean sudden death, so I approached via the cavern and quickly drew Vor into striking range of the Bronco Prime. While unloading my 2nd clip into his pirate-wannabe-a$$ my screen suddenly flashed red and my Tenno's heart begin pounding - Krill had walked around the rear and unleashed his Gorgon!

 

I made my escape with a quick wall-run and while I crouced behind a rock regenerating my shields, I realized - crap.

 

Warframe is FUN.

 

Because I CAN'T obliterate or incapacitate an entire playing field whenever I want.

Because I'm constantly at risk of a meaningful, mission-ending death if I get careless.

Because i REQUIRE skill to play effectively - headshots to kill mobs with one hit or parkour to escape if I'm flanked.

 

Because for once, in a long time, I was challenged.

 

Not a punishment like having no shields and draining life in Nightmare.

Not a self-manufactured challenge like grinding to wave 50 in Xini by using weapons/frames that are OP by design

 

This was the kind of fun that I experienced when I first played. It still exists. The problem is that it is hidden beneath layers and layers of compounding power. Each Tenno is a literal Terminator, stocked with rare mods, catylists, clantech/primes, formas and then topped with absurdly overpowered abilities that can be infinitely spammed. Then put into a team of 4, exponentially increasing our overall effectiveness.

 

Anyone that recognizes my name knows I've put many suggestions forth. This isn't a suggestion. Maybe it's a rant. I'm not sure anymore. But I do know that Warframe is still HUGELY fun when the game itself throws a challenge our way, one that more firepower, or pressing 4 can't instantly fix.

 

TL;DR - We don't need more guns, more mods or more ways to utterly decimate the enemies around us. We don't even need more tilesets to do it in. We simply need more challenge, and more meaningful ways/reasons to use the content around us.

 

P.S. I used the two bosses invuln states to switch targets, killing Vor first then playing a deadly game of cat-and-mouse with Krill around a shipping crate on the lower level. After getting him to fire mode, I was out of ammo and finally went toe-to-toe, killing him with an Orthos Prime.

 

After spending over 30 in the mission, Miter Blade still didn't drop.

 

GG, RNG. GG.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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There's no doubt that Warframe can be challenging. But AT LEAST one thing is off in your post. The loadout.

 

It's a no brainer that Warframe punishes you if you don't bring something rank 30, or all rank 30s, with sufficient mods.

 

Warframe has been proclaimed easy and boring by many people because most content can be done even soloing as long as you are prepared instead of going in with a fragile setup. And if you think everyone or even half the people playing are just gonna start being unprepared just for the sake of challenge, you're wrong.

 

The mission you did, is similar to many missions. Easy, but CAN be hard if you forgot to prepare for higher leveled enemies. Or you just aren't ready because, well, you're new. The game is hard when you're new, but too easy when you have much more at your disposal.

 

I DO admit the game is harder when you're soloing, and it can be fun. This proves that the game needs some sort of fair scaling for when 2-4 players come in, so fighting bosses and many enemies can be just as fun as solo, despite that soloing is still more than possible.

Edited by Xelorx
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There's no doubt that Warframe can be challenging. But AT LEAST one thing is off in your post. The loadout.

 

It's a no brainer that Warframe punishes you if you don't bring something rank 30, or all rank 30s, with sufficient mods.

 

Warframe has been proclaimed easy and boring by many people because most content can be done even solo as long as you are prepared instead of going in with a fragile setup. And if you think everyone or even half the people playing are just gonna start being unprepared just for the sake of challenge, you're wrong.

 

The mission you did, is similar to many missions. Easy, but CAN be hard if you forgot to prepare for higher leveled enemies.

 

I DO admit the game is harder when you're soloing, and it can be fun. This proves that the game needs some sort of fair scaling for when 2-4 players come in, so fighting bosses and many enemies can be just as fun as solo, despite that soloing is still more than possible.

 

Agreed. I don't think we should have to manufacture our own challenge. If I brought nova and had my gear @ 30...this post never would have happened.

 

The game needs to challenge us, the way that Nightmare mode intended to, but horribly failed at by creating a rushfest.

 

Scaling more effectively with # players would be a good starting point, but ultimately, creating situations which can't be solved effectively by more bullets and more 4's is the answer.

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Me and my friend were running a T3 extermination a few days ago. In it, we encountered a bug where enemies just weren't present until about halfway through the map. However, the enemy spawns were compacted, we had many enemies to fight at once, and there were just the two of us, a Nyx and a Frost Prime.

He had Snow Globe, but he deigned to use it in favour of more tactical attacks like Freeze to immobilize the heavies. I'd Mind control an Ancient in order to take a bit of heat off of us every now and then. We had to be careful with our decisions, and carefully take out enemies one at a time in order to whittle down their firepower enough to take them on head to head. Things got very hairy quite a bit, but it was the most intense fun I've had with Warframe in a long time.

Edited by Azure_Kyte
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Agreed. I don't think we should have to manufacture our own challenge. If I brought nova and had my gear @ 30...this post never would have happened.

 

The game needs to challenge us, the way that Nightmare mode intended to, but horribly failed at by creating a rushfest.

 

Scaling more effectively with # players would be a good starting point, but ultimately, creating situations which can't be solved effectively by more bullets and more 4's is the answer.

 

The whole spamming 4 situation and having uber weapons is definitely an issue. I want to feel that my stuff that I worked for is efficient for the time I spent into it, but there needs to be a place for me to actually feel like I NEEDED it. So yes, I agree there too. And the 4s overall.. I'm hoping for a re-design.

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Me and my friend were running a T3 extermination a few days ago. In it, we encountered a bug where enemies just weren't present until about halfway through the map. However, the enemy spawns were compacted, we had many enemies to fight at once, and there were just the two of us, a Nyx and a Frost Prime.

 

[edit]....was the most intense fun I've had with Warframe in a long time.

 

Much like my story, yours begins with a bug. Mine was the host migration, I wouldn't have solo'd that map intentionally.

 

I also had an amazing encounter with a team of 4 where after the objective was complete the Stalker spawned.... we killed him and got a drop....but then the level kept getting longer and longer, and for some reason NO ammo would drop. So we had to systematically loot every locker and aim for the heads only. We weren't going to lose our BP, so we kept going for a good 15 mins of room after room, with barely any ammo!

 

Additionally, the old 'doors are shut even after you hacked terminal' bug happened, so we had to send 2 Frames back a few rooms to find a terminal...the room was of course flooded with heavies so an intense firefight ensued. They finally hacked it and we made it to extraction as a unit.

 

Kind of sad (but promising) when a simple bug can bring so much enjoyment by making play more challenging and adding an element of difference.

Edited by notionphil
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thoroughly enjoyed reading this story and yes those are the moments you crave as a gamer whether casual or hardcore

 

was surprised that some people didnt get the idea you are trying to convey

 

i totally agree this is what we need more of, an increase in intelligent challenge with the current content

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thoroughly enjoyed reading this story and yes those are the moments you crave as a gamer whether casual or hardcore

 

was surprised that some people didnt get the idea you are trying to convey

 

i totally agree this is what we need more of, an increase in intelligent challenge with the current content

 

Exactly. One of these issues is how monotonous the content gets. Randomly generated maps sounds awesome, but actually means that really.....all missions of a certain type/faction are the same.

 

Right now there are only 2 things which can 'happen' during a mission.

 

1) the Stalker can appear, which admittedly can be fun even if you have his BP's. (could be made more fun, easily)

2) there can be a second objective, which pretty much always sucks.

3 ish) kinda - treasure room in void

 

These bugs that we are describing are simply variances in the mission, where you suddenly need to focus on a different task. Your routine is broken. This could be easily implemented

 

Side quests, random events or optional objectives would be a way to implement this.

 

lotus informs you of:

 

-optional hidden assassination target, somewhere on ship (like stalker)

-minibosses randomly spawn, with random name/powers (a la diablo and x other games)

-ship going to crash-land and you must extract, or optionally find a gravity-protected room in order to survive (rewards on surface)

-amubsh waiting for you at extraction

-individual extraction points for each team member

-team has option of accomplishing a separate objectives that must be completed at exact same time as main, for addl reward (separation)

-assault team incoming, must defend for X seconds during a non-defense level

-mission starts off with one frame captured

 

etc etc etc...

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If you make the game FUN by your definition... the Forum will fill with tears from noobs, casuals and possibly just idiots that find the game too hard. It's a shame and i personally want a Hard-Mode fo a long time now where you actually fight against every enemy instead of just running past them guns blazing.

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I agree 100% but DE is met with violent complaining whenever a frame or weapon gets nerfed.

 

apparently 1/3 of the community quit over Bastille nerf, haven't you heard?

 

RIP in peace Vauban 2013-2013

 

I definitely don't believe that statistic.:P

 

However..DE doesn't have to nerf....

 

....We have enough OP weapons, OP mods and OP gear. We need OP enemies.

 

Imagine an Ancient Protector which makes enemies within 10m immune to powers, and can only be damaged from behind etc.

 

OP mobs don't need to be in every room, but some spread out in a mission + dynamic conditions would be the start of re-introducing challenge.

 

That is what nightmare mode should have been. If you want to play on godmode where you press 4 to win, and can one shot everything with a body-shot, that's fine. But if you want OP mobs that require skill and teamwork, dynamic changing mission conditions etc and the rewards to go along with it...that should exist in game.

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If you make the game FUN by your definition... the Forum will fill with tears from noobs, casuals and possibly just idiots that find the game too hard. It's a shame and i personally want a Hard-Mode fo a long time now where you actually fight against every enemy instead of just running past them guns blazing.

 

casuals/solos/noobs already experience that. That's my point...when you actually play the game WITHOUT all of our OP gear, it's hard, and fun.

 

A casual/solo/noob generally doesnt have a nova with 3 formad flux, energy siphon etc. He has hiding behind crates, sneaking up on enemies, and trying to score headshots. He has tactics. He has challenge. Possibly too much, because DE is trying to balance the game for both ends of the spectrum at one time.

 

Nightmare mode was botched IMO and could have solved this problem. Not more RNG based missions to get an RNG based reward.

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casuals/solos/noobs already experience that. That's my point...when you actually play the game WITHOUT all of our OP gear, it's hard, and fun.

 

A casual/solo/noob generally doesnt have a nova with 3 formad flux, energy siphon etc. He has hiding behind crates, sneaking up on enemies, and trying to score headshots. He has tactics. He has challenge. Possibly too much, because DE is trying to balance the game for both ends of the spectrum at one time.

 

Nightmare mode was botched IMO and could have solved this problem. Not more RNG based missions to get an RNG based reward.

Most of those noobs have a 1-Pull-win Mag and a Strun Wraith now :D

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Gear isn't OP.

 

Enemies are fantastically UP, and need to be reworked from the ground up with multiple states and both offensive and defensive mechanic-states with animations and effects to match.

 

The enemy interaction and challenge model in WF is about 15 years old, and it shows in absolute spades.

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Yep the fun is there. 't 'aint easy to find buried beneath questionable design and rampant power creep, but it's certainly there.

 

Take note devs, this is how to make a game fun. Meaningful choices and challenging gameplay is what it's all about.

 

Good post OP, fully agree.

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If it happens as i hope then the damage reqork will basically nerf all guns by 50% because current builds won't work the way they do now and mods ae not that effective anymore. One can hope ^^

 

I'll bet you a plat they are going to make diff mobs within each faction vuln to different types of damage, EX: heavies vuln to armor pierce, light vuln to fire, med vuln to elec/ice.

 

Which will help a bit, but not too much bc you'll still just throw them all on your weapon. The entire build system needs to be reworked so that all viable builds aren't 80% about the same damaging effects (multishot, +base dmg, elem, atk speed)

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I agree 100% but DE is met with violent complaining whenever a frame or weapon gets nerfed.

 

apparently 1/3 of the community quit over Bastille nerf, haven't you heard?

 

RIP in peace Vauban 2013-2013

 

What you don't seem to understand is that forcing your opinion on everybody has bad consequences.

 

You guys have the tools to challenge yourself in Warframe but you don't want to.  You want somebody else to force you to have fun.  That's your problem and there is no reason why my fun has to be ruined because you can't manage your own affairs and need a big daddy to discipline you.

Edited by ThePresident777
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In my case it's the lack of resistance the game puts against me when new content is released.. meaning.. when i work and grind hard to get my gear strong, format and mods leveled then at some point i expect the game to counter that at some point so i can put it to use and maybe release content where it is even needed to have good gear. But currently all we get is better gear, stronger mods and a rise of power without enemies that can be a challenge for it.

 

I hope for the damage rework to tone down the power of the player and a possible Hard-Mode (Nightmare mode is not what i think of). How people cry because their favorite frame gets nerfed and then quit is of no interest for me. In most cases the people reacting that way are idiots anyways and i and the game does not need them.

 

My2cents

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