Future Of Warframe Creation (Warframe Tier System) (Resurrected Topic)

[Arlayn]

So Bringing back a topic from ancient times from general discussion to here on Fan Concepts. Original Topic here.

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/55731-future-of-warframe-creation-warframe-tier-system/?hl=mergingwarframes

 

Remember this topic was posted back in May... so a VERY long time ago. I have left this topic dormant for a long time, but now we have a new community since then and I want to swing this one about to see what thoughts come up on this topic. This topic is being copy and pasted straight from general discussion so it very much is untouched, and unedited. So it will carry most of the issues that had come up back in May.

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So... someone brought up the INSANE IDEA of making warframes through the Clan Dojo research system... first of all I facepalm at the idea cause that just means people who are in giant Clans will get that warframe, but that isn't the idea I want to work on at the moment.

 

I have feeling DE is looking for more then one way to earn Warframes because after awhile it will get dull to earn warframe BPs from Defense, boss killing, randomly, alerts, and Void... So of course they will add some to the research system, but I just don't want the next gen of Warframe to be limited to those kinds of options. So my idea is more difficult to make warframes as an evolution type deal.

 

What the hell does that even mean? Let me go on with this. The polarizing deal is kinda cool I guess, but you get no mastery out of it and it pretty much stops in how much more powerful it will get once you polarize it perfectly.

 

So what if there was Warframe BPs that require one or more level 30 warframes to make them? Yeah evolution/fusion type deal more like it. Like a whole another Tier of Warframes. Like all the Warframes we have now could be considered Tier 1 Warframes. A Tier 2 Warframe would require using the Tier 1s at level 30 as ingredients to make the vastly superior Tier 2 Warframes that are far more powerful then what was used to make them. Like lets say you use Excalibur to make a Warframe similar to Excalibur but with a lot better abilities that have similar functions or different but still comes in close to the original concept of what it came from.

 

So that this way DE isn't limited to make up more ideas for a wider array of Warframes, but instead can now make the same ones but more powerful. (Could also evolve Female Ember into a Male Fire Warframe as a Tier 2 for those who prefer Ember as a dude who knows)

 

Now what exactly is considered more powerful? Well DE has already started looking into the idea of optional abilities for current warframes thanks to the card system so this may seem pointless. Not if the capabilities of those abilities for Tier 1 Warframes are limited, and then have Tier 2 Warframes with special Tier 2 set of abilities only and allow it to use Tier 1 as well. Have it so as Excalibur can only do one slash dash, have it so his Tier 2 counterpart can do something absurd like an illusion of itself doing the slash dash but not exactly having been there and still standing in the same spot while everything infront of it is dead allowing the Warframe to use it over and over in multiple directions to wipe out enemy crowds instead of having to slash dash into a bad place next to several poison, and disruptor ancients.

 

Meaning higher Tier is more legendary. Of course you could keep going up and up Tier 3 requiring 2 Tier 2s, and Tier 4 requiring 3 Tier 3s. Pretty much a Tier 4 would be a super merger of three powerful Tier 3s that were a merging of 2 other types of Warframes meaning combo type abilities beyond our wildest imaginations. Like a fusion of 6 Warframes into one with 4 all powerful abilities that have a likeness to the 6 warframes that were merged to create this powerhouse, that would blow your mind.

 

Now how to come about these BPs? Well the ingredients for Tier 2 would be a level 30 warframe and abunch of other weird junk so ingredient wise that can be left alone. The main focus is the location of the BP itself to create the Warframes of the Tier 2s and higher which would be obtained by doing a series of events such as...

 

1. Reach certain mastery

2. Kill a certain boss with a level 30 Warframe STRICTLY only level 30s may be at the killing of the boss and they must all be of that mastery or higher for the drop to ever occur. They must also be using the required Warframe in order to unlock the BP that will create the Tier 2 using THAT WARFRAME. Of course its a random drop once you have all that stuff together so it won't just drop, but it should have a lot higher chance of dropping then you do getting a Reaper Handle at a tier 1 Void mission.

 

Also Note I feel Mastery is a REQUIREMENT to gaining Tier Warframes. As it would make sense for a masterful Player who works hard in the game to gain the power of a Tier Warframe. Especially when they reach Tier 4 after going through Several Warframes getting them to level 30 to make a powerhouse.

 

Now then as for the strictness of the level 30 with specific warframes. Each boss will have a requirement of a certain type of Warframe fighting it. All Tier 2 BPs will drop at a certain mastery that is the same across the border. Same deal will occur with Tier 3 However players will have to play as the two Tier 2 Warframes required to make the Tier 3 Waframe at a far higher Mastery then what is required for the Tier 2, and so on.

 

So what does everyone else think of this system for Tier Warframes earned through specific functions.

 

Edit: and a lot of hardwork, maybe not as hard as the dojo though could be equal to it if your making a Tier 4 however...

 

Edit2: Also like to add Tier 1, 2, and 3 ability sets of the Warframes used to create the Tier 4 would all be usable by the Tier 4 version along with its all powerful Tier 4 abilities.

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(Post to the original topic I feel would be best to answer all down here)

Think of it as one big evolution system similar to the take a lato to make a bolto then two bolto to make an akbolto except it combines what was into something new. (Mind you I have never played WoW so don't bring that up)

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It would also give those who wish to be solo players, or not mess with the dojo something else to do... like focus on Warframe construction... It be like the good ol days of Final Fantasy 7 when you were breeding the chocobos to make a Gold Chocobo.

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id rather not have to sacrafice my frame for another

 

I think it should be more like - combining Rhino and Excalibur allows player to pick power from both frames to use. Slashdash/Radial blind/Iron skin/Radial javelins or other combinations. Base stat is a bit hard to balance though.

I'm pretty neutral with this idea. However, I think Minky is going to kill himself trying to make model for all combinations of frame in tier two alone.

I just said that... The new Tier 2 warframe could use the abilities from what was used to make it so its basically the same warframe if you wanted it to be with slightly higher natural stats. Then on Tier 3 it could use all the abilities of the Warframes used to make it. So technically your warframe isn't gone its now one, assimilated, merged into a better Waframe kinda like Braton Mk.1 vs. Braton. Edit: Natural stats wise... its slightly better... then what was used... so if you use Ember to make this warframe it has all her abilities as optional use, but functions better then Ember.

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Prime can't count as Tier as Ecksplisit was saying its the original... ALL WARFRAMES are copies based on blueprints that were made for easier creation of such over the top waframe technology.

 

The Tier system would be something beyond even that. Taking warframes and first refining them to be better for Tier 2, then taking the refined versions and merging them to make tier 3, and 4.

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I like the tier idea but I would prefer it implemented with the helmets instead of the frames. The first alternate helm that all frames have at this point would be tier 1 helms. each tier can be ranked up 3 times to slightly decrease the negative effects of the helm. Once rank 3 is achieved, you can use the tier 1 helm as material component for the tier 2 helm. The tier 2 helm would have a different appearance as well as a different bonus/neg stat. Each tier would be able to rank 3 times to reduce the negative stat. Not sure how hard it would be to make each rank of each tier slightly different in appearance, but that would add to the cosmetic appeal as well as add more variety to the frames in game other then just the color patterns. BP's would be random rewards from alert missions or void missions.

Or we could use a tier system with everything from Weapons, Frames, and Helmets... Giving an alternative to collecting thousands of stuff for a Gorgon and just evolving Braton to Tier 2, then merging it with Tier 2 Latron, or Tier 2 Burston to make some crazy tier 3 weapon... actually now it just sounds like Dead Space 3 weapon crafting... which wouldn't be a bad thing to further customize weaponry and make them into something we can really benefit from and enjoy at higher mastery ranks.

 

So Weapons, helmets, and Warframes will simply become better at higher Tiers. This actually would make sense Mastery Rank wise. Since basically a higher mastery rank means your good at what you do. Like White Belt to Black Belt in certain martial arts groups. A beginner form of weapon/warframe/helmet for the low mastery ranks should be basic, but a higher Mastery should be able to take their gear and make it better. Its like Young intitate Tenno to a Sensei/Grand Master (True Grand Master not based on founder) Tenno. It is a good way to give people the feeling their mastery isn't just for looks but for skill, and gear as well. You wouldn't give a new soldier access to top secret information from the start, he/she would have go up the ranks to earn responsibilities, and information, or if you want to use martial art terms, you don't give a white belt in some martial arts groups weapons till they reach a certain belt usually Black Belt in which from there they start getting stripes, and even learn to use weapons since they are more properly trained in their body they can now control and wield a weapon.

 

Mastery should be a thing of most importance in this Tier system. The Tier system would bring out the best in Mastery. It would make sense of a High Up Mastery to use a Tier 4 Warframe with access to 6 different Warframe's abilities (only being able to equip 4 at a time still) as a show of power, mastery, and skill along with access to Tier 4 abilities which would act as the merger of the 6 warframe types that made up the Tier 4 Warframe. Its the difference between control as a master, and learning to wield and control abilities as a beginner.

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The primes being made before ' in the lore ' DOES NOT MATTER AT ALL. They are better, and are thus the next tier of warframes. If you want to progress, primes are the next step up regardless of when in the made up lore they were created.

If I put bling on you would that make you stronger? I highly doubt it... a Prime is not stronger its simply appearance with some polarization differences.

 

 

I believe the clan only idea is being discussed as a core idea of potential trading systems, as mentioned in the previous Livestream.

 

The simple largest problem I see with this is power creep.

 

It has already started to take roots in that the Devs are thinking about 'high' end content (mobs 60+).  The idea is that not all weapons may compete on that level and some frames are better suited for that combat then others.  New content must be released but old things need to be rebalanced to adjust to the creep that has already occurred.

 

This idea could be implemented but by no means will it be update 10 or even 11.

 

With the 'slow' release of the new clan weapons it will give us more insight into the current state of power creep.

 

Kunai and Despair did not bode well for a stagnant power creep.

Power Creep could be solved with this as you would need all Tier 1 frames to even make a Tier 2 frame, or tier 1 gear to make tier 2 gear. This would mean people would still use all the beginner stuff to make an ideal piece of gear they would like at tier 2, 3, and 4 to fight these so called higher level mobs. Everyone is different take that into concept as well some people may find the way a certain weapon works feels pretty good and would like to see the Tier 2 model. Then make a BP for a Tier 3 weapon requiring two of their favorite primary weapons to make a weapon that is even more ideal for their play style since natural stats would be increased with each Tier, eventually leveling plus cards to add stats and specials to it would make that piece of equipment ideally more useful and helpful for a higher level mob.

 

It would make Tier 1 gear eventually Obsolete as people go up in mastery and get higher Tier gear however, but at the least new players would still pick up the Tier 1s to make the better stuff, and DE could keep adding BPs that require older weapons to make the better gear. Instead of simply making more BPs requiring random items that out do the competition with little work needed outside of farming the parts, and spending credits to buy the BP in the market, and then spending credits on the creation in Foundry. The Tier 2 and up gear would need much more work, and gives the player no instant gratification but instead a satisfaction that comes from hard work that is noticeably better with better stats, and functions as it evolution continues.

 

As I stated before for those who do not wish to be apart of a Clan or in a small clan this will allow you to get good gear may not be the same as clans but it is still good, and good for the player who plays solo, or in small clans. Simply a single player could do it all on their own, and never need to come in contact with others if they REALLY do not wish to, but anyone would be able to use this system clans, and those outside of clans.

 

In my opinion I feel good when I level up gear... I would feel better if I can change that gear into something else and level it up some more.

 

I got this idea from the Furis really... I noticed to make the Afuris you need two Furis... but I won't do it till I make furis level 30 then make a second furis to make the Afuris that way no mastery points are missed. Which I feel level 30 is a must when it comes to making higher tier gear. That way the player isn't forced to skip out on mastery points they could be earning from using the gear.

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(This one of the sake of it being so huge, and plus ancient information because this one was posted back when clans were simply impossible... I have edited this one slightly can be all viewed here however)

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/55731-future-of-warframe-creation-warframe-tier-system/page-2?hl=+merging+warframes

 

Wouldn't it be great to merge Ember, and Excalibur's abilities to do a flaming slash dash? Yeah that is the core of the idea. Brining abilities together that could not be  brought together to make a more all around useful technique. From flame slash with ember, or Frost slash with Frost, or even lightning slash with Volt... depending on the direction... maybe even using those three combinations to make a Tier 4 Warframe with mastery over elemental sword techniques. This would mean it would only have access to four warframe abilities but the end result is that its Tier 4 abilities would be the kind that wields elemental sword techniques like a Sword mage but in a more awesome sci-fi ninja manner.

 

Doing quest for the dojo sounds like its going to require us building something, or doing something over the top that takes an eternity due to how they want it to be the ultimate end game long term project which is irritating because you get ABSOLUTE NOTHING along the way which doesn't entice me in the least bit. I need rewards along the way, to know I am progress towards something... I need to be lured to it. A lot of players need that lure to be motivated. As it is now a lot of players are not motivated ever since the whole dojo system came out people have been dropping out of the game. I have noticed this due to the lack of players that are usually on. A lot of planets completely abandoned making it even impossible for me to continue on. Even unlocking Sedna was outright impossible alone even with Vauban, I need a full team, which took several days to wait on because no one was going there.

 

People need a system that does take a long time, but rewarding along the way similar to making a gold chocobo in Final fantasy 7(or 9 which was also pretty damn hard, but not as pain staking). With mountain green, river blue, and the combination of both black chocobo, which with two black chocobos being fed a certain nut would make the Gold chocobo. It was a very interesting and fun experience to deal with. Well worth it since the Gold chocobo is needed to unlock Knights of the Round Table(strongest summon in the game) as a singular summon materia (There is another way to get master summon to summon it but won't be as strong)

 

We need a process system that is long, and hard... but FAR MORE extremely rewarding then some silly reward we all share after months and months of collecting garbage all to stand in a hallway and go... "damn now we have to collect more junk to build a lab" Where as with this system along the way we would get different things, with different results, that eventually go somewhere, and challenge the more powerful mobs.

 

This IS NOT about instant gratification. Under no circumstances should you see leveling up a warframe to level 30 to make a Tier 2, then two Tier 2s to level 30 to make a Tier 3, then 3 level 30 tier 3s into a tier 4 as EASY AND SHORT. It is a long process but you get to see your hard work with the Tier 2,, and 3 warframes along the way who would show examples of what is to come in Tier 4 with their abilities and natural stats.

 

Final Fantasy 7 was NEVER broken in anything it did so kinda sad Square Enix totally blew it with all the other games, but other game companies could easily capitalize on the most amazingly designed game ever to be made, that has kept people interested and even replaying the game for years to come. The chocobo system being implemented to design new Warframes with abilities that reflect ones mastery is a grand idea to work towards. Even I need something to do on Warframe other then continuing to build something then tossing it aside over and over... then to learn all the maxed out gear or most of it is weak against some of the more powerful mobs. Then your left not being able to use your fav gear anymore and have to use gear you do not like, but wouldn't it be great to merge all the gear you love and continue using it in a slightly different manner, towards a more geared to your fashion manner as you keep merging it with other gear? It is an amazingly rewarding feeling to be honest.

 

People do not stick around when everything in the game is done, but people also do not stick around if there is nothing to do because all the content gets boring with no true objective to any of it. Yeah sure the first couple warframes, and weapons, and helmets you build are pretty cool and all, but you get into a higher mastery and you just don't feel like all the gear you have is really up to par at that mastery... I mean do you really feel a lot of the gear researched in the dojo that have ranks slapped on them deserve to be of that rank? Don't you think something with more shazam, something you worked hard on putting together with your own customizations such as sticking a two of your fav weapons together into something that is even better? Instead of some weird weapon that definitely shouldn't be anywhere near Rank 8 due to the fact THERE IS NO BEGINNER WEAPON LIKE IT!? So it doesn't even make sense to reach that rank when no weapon in the game is anywhere similar to it. How on earth would your Tenno even be able to wield it if they have never wielded a beginner version of it similar to how the Tenno can wield a pistol version of the Boltor before wielding it, or wielding weaker shotguns before wielding Hek, or wielding normal machine guns, before wielding Gorgon(which is common practice in a lot of games to make you work for machine guns and eventually Chain gun type weapons later on.) Even for beginners you get Paris, and Snipertron and eventually as end game content get the Grineer sniper, and Dread which may not be ranked but still a lot of work goes into getting them.

 

This is the greatest form of progression... compared to doing silly quest to obtain a warframe with FAR MORE EASE due to the fact its a quest and not something that requires a lot of work, and blood to make (could actually be worse and harder like killing a million or so of this particular enemy in order to unlock that warframe which would be irritating for progression)... vs. screaming about no void keys, and no forma, and not enough resources for a dojo.

 

It is like running a business it is a lot of hard work to progress at all... but even before you progress you sometimes get nice people that say good things about your business and give you good advice along the way. It is a feel good thing in that regard. It is a reward all in itself as you work towards your progress... Because you did work hard to create what that customer, or guest really liked about your business... impressing people with a business is extremely difficult. Not going to use DE's history but rather the current game Warframe. When it finally was playable in closed beta I am sure everyone was impressed... DE put in a lot of work getting it to closed beta usability... the praise they got was well earned and probably felt pretty damn good to make the game they wanted and hear how people loved the game, and got interesting advice along the way. The praise, and the founder/plat purchases along the way are all rewarding to DE since they are now finally making what they love and people love it too. They put hard work into it and still do, and it gives them a feel good feeling about it I am sure. I would feel good if I could finally make my dream game and people loved it.

 

The same should be built towards a certain path players could take in the game. They could still make warframes obtainable through clans, and dojo stuff, but there needs to be another path in which players can take outside of that to earn warframes, and gear. Not just Markets, but more complicated task that are rewarding along the way, and not just rewarding in the end.

 

Gundam SD Online is a good example of the evolution system outside of Final Fantasy 7. The game was extremely successful till the stopped updating it to allow Windows 7 users to play it, unless they fixed that finally. However they had a great system where you could take several mobile suits earned in several different ways and put them together to make a higher class Mobile suit from D-SS. Each mobile suit class either required purchase, or blueprints to build them. Each mobile suit as they were merged however made a higher class. Even SS class required several VERY RARE, and VERY HARD to obtain through shear work rank S mobile suits to even make it. However I am satisfied because I had a goal in mind to get Susanowo which was an S rank Mobile suit. However all the mobile suits in the game to make it were insanely hard to obtain. I never did get around to making it due to how busy I got.. and Still cant even go back to play the game anymore due to how the people taking care of the game took a dump on it and don't do any maintenance on it anymore.

 

My end conclusion on all of this post right here... is that it isn't just me that wants to see a future where everything is restricted to clans, and dojos... but a future where players can progress in more then one way in this game. People are right too about implementation there is no way it will come in update 9, 10, or 11 but I do feel this would make a massive difference... this would give players more things to do, more choices... and choices are good... Remember Ford everybody... remember when it was all the same color... times changed and people wanted their car different colors. People wanted to be individuals... Even today we still want that. This system will allow us to break away from the need of clans and do many other things. Sure maybe we will come back to clans after making some Tier 4 Warframe, but who knows...

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[OnlyThresh]

Nice

[Anunymau5]

TLDR please? Its like 5 pages of text and I'm incredibly tired.

[Arlayn]

TLDR please? Its like 5 pages of text and I'm incredibly tired.

Could always click the original link and read that... its more broken up and easier to read the OP and the rest of the post answering many of the post made by others.

[Nyss]

*glances down the length of the post*

Nope.

*goes to another thread*

[Arlayn]

*glances down the length of the post*

Nope.

*goes to another thread*

Still can click the link to the original post...

[blargian]

+1

[sewens]

That is...A lot of restrictions, roadblocks, and grinding.

 

Not that that's bad.

 

I'd love a system like this if you could do more with some of the current frames and be more creative with their powers. Then when you pick up T1 frames you can carry that creativity to other tiers and have ridiculous combinations like super jump + rhino stomp with more damage if you have heavy impact or a homing slash dash with slash dash + shuriken.

 

You put a amazing amount of thought into this, +1.

Edited September 12, 2013 by sewens

[Arlayn]

That is...A lot of restrictions, roadblocks, and grinding.

 

Not that that's bad.

 

I'd love a system like this if you could do more with some of the current frames and be more creative with their powers. Then when you pick up T1 frames you can carry that creativity to other tiers and have ridiculous combinations like super jump + rhino stomp with more damage if you have heavy impact or a homing slash dash with slash dash + shuriken.

 

You put a amazing amount of thought into this, +1.

Yes I know it has lots of restrictions I made this post originally along time ago, and I guess it could use a proper sweep for less restrictions, but the purpose is to create a whole new level of warframes with customization when the time comes, and we need them...