Jump to content

Orb Fight Reward: Is it worth it now? Comparison and Analysis


kingvaldemir
 Share

Recommended Posts

Heya guys.

Ever since the release of orb mother fight, one of the problem that players (including me) found was the underwhelming reward after defeating the orb mother. But, hotfix 24.2.5 added more rewards into it and so, I'd like to discuss it by analyzing and comparing the rewards from other missions. Basically I'm going to compare the average time of a public squad required to complete the mission with the rewards it gives. Ok let's begin.

Mission to Compare

  • Profit taker fight: Obviously.
  • Eidolon Teralyst fight: This of course would be here because Orb fight is like the venus version of eidolons. I'm only using Teralyst because both it and profit taker are the first of three boss fights of their respective world, so tridolon wont be included. Just Teralyst. This is the main comparison
  • The Index: Kinda weird maybe, but profit taker rewards the player with bunch of credits, so I think it's worth mentioning. This is not the main comparison.
  • ESO: Same case with index. It's here because both rewards radiant relics. Again, not main comparison.

Time it takes to finishes each mission

For this, I'm using my own personal experience in public squads for each mission, thus your result may vary so please take it with a grain of salt.

  • Profit Taker Fight: Best time with my clan mates were around 5 minutes tops. Average with public squads were 8 if they are decent, 10 if the squads were mediocore, 13-15 if I had bad squads (maybe new player or something).
  • Eidolon Teralyst fight: Mostly I don't use much public squad for Terry. But I do use alot of public squads for the tridolon. The fastest tridolon run I had with public squads are probably around 20-25 minutes. Mostly, though, it was 30-35 minutes and if i have bad teamates, it could take 40 or even almost fail (lol). Averaging the time (yes this method is kinda flawed) a single terry could go for 10-ish minutes? 15 at tops. For those that run alot of public Eidolon Teralyst run, please share your experience.
  • The index: I think 1 round took 7-10 minutes with public squads.
  • ESO: This one is time gated. It take 2 minutes and 30 seconds each round, and the rewards are given every 2 rounds so it's 5 minutes.

Rewards that we can get

Profit taker: Quoting space mom:

 

15 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:
  • A chance for Profit-Taker Articula (New!)
  • Guaranteed Debt-Bonds
    • 3x Medical Debt-Bonds
    • 2x Advances Debt-Bonds
    • 1x Familiar Debt-Bond
  • Guaranteed 'Profit' 5x 25,000 Credit Drops

In addition to that we also got 6k Vox Solaris rep from the black toroid thingy and something from the bounty reward table. Stuffs from the reward table are radiant relics, those weird new corpus components that are used to progress the Vox Solaris rep, and 3 new mods.

Eidolon Teralyst fight:

  • Quills rep from sentient core that drops from the fights. Bunch of it actually
  • 1 Eidolon shard and 1 Briliant Eidolon shard. Briliant Eidolon Shard yields 25k Focus Point
  • Common arcanes.

The Index: High risk index yields 200k creds per round.

ESO: All of items bellow are chance.

  • 400 Endo
  • Rad relics
  • Scenes
  • lato vandal parts
  • peculiar mods

Okay now the Comparison

  • Both Terry and profit taker yields some reputation for their respective syndicates. I know for sure profit taker yields 6k standing for Vox Solaris and 2,2k standing for SU from the debt bonds. Unfortunately it's kinda hard calculating rep gain from Terry because it depends on how many vomba you can kill.
  • Terry let you progress your operator via it's briliant eidolon shard. Profit taker does not
  • Terry gives arcane. Profit taker does not.
  • Profit taker rewards you with 125k worth of credits. Comparing it with the index it is worse (almost half of it). But, profit taker has some other rewards and comparing with other missions, 125k is alot.
  • Profit taker gives radiant relics. Using my average public squad time for profit taker, it took 10 minutes to finishes it. Meanwhile, it requires rotation C to acquire neo and axi relic on ESO, so it would be 20 minutes for ESO (5 minutes * 4).
  • The exact of the relic are already determined in Heist and the chance are 17 for neo and14% for the axi. In ESO the exact relics are random but the type of it depends on what zone you are. The chance are also vary depending on the type. Direct comparison would be: 17% (Heist) VS 15% (ESO) for neo relics. 14% (heist) VS 1,84%  (ESO) for Axi relic.
  • Heist bounty has a chance to reward exclusive mods. Out of 3 there are 2 that worth mentioned. Critical focus (increase CC and CD of arch guns while aiming) and strain mods. Chances of those dropping are sadly low at 1.43%

In Conclusion

So, is it worth it? Err.... I think I have a quote that perfectly describe my feeling

2 hours ago, Chappie1975 said:

As a of last night (the 0.4 patch), I would have to say the rewards are no longer disappointing.   In less than one hour you can most likely cap both reps and have a million credits to boot for your time.   In terms of being "rewarding", I would call that "fair".   

TLDR: IMO it's fair. Very fair. Let me elaborate in points:

  • You can get bunch of credits outside of index, which is a nice option if you are bored of it. All the while you rising up vox's standing and get other rewards. So nice! 👍
  • You have a chance to get new mods. Personally i think the Critical Focus mod is interesting, and i still have 1 open mod slot for my arch gun so it can fit well there. Can't say much about strain mods as I don't have it on my hands yet. On paper, it's interesting though. The downside is the chances are low.
  • You get radiant relic, which is, compare to ESO in terms of time, its much worth it, but it's already determined which relic so it might not be the one you want. At least you can use it for ducats though.
  • Yes you don't get arcanes from profit taker unfortunately. That being said, the arcanes from Terry isnt that great either. Mostly you won't use the resistance arcanes except the magnetic one and that mostly only useful on eidolons. If you watch brozime, you might have interest on arcane consequance, but tbh, it's just preference and utility buff. There are also the one for shotgun that increase fire rate, which is nice tbh. Another one is reload speed for sniper which is, meh.
  • So comparing it with eidolon Terry, profit taker are toe to toe in terms of rewards IMO. Comparing it to time spent, it's fair. It's not too little, as you do get something, but not too many that player get what they are not earned. I have to disagree if putting arcanes like elevate, guardian, rage, and of course energize and grace in the reward is what you call fair. Like I said, the right team can finishes it in 5 minutes and the mission can be repeated endlessly, unlike eidolons that locked in a time period. Those kind of rewards can be reserved for 2nd and 3rd Orbs, but that's another issue because we have no idea how the fight is going to be.

Anyway, thanks and let me know what you think.

Okay, with that out of the way, time to continue writing my stupid college essay again I guess.

 

Edited by kingvaldemir
fix the hotfix number.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Regarding rewards, once thing to note is that DE did mention in the past via interviews that they need to be careful with attaching high value rewards to new content, due to the possibility of it being easily cheesed, which is not what they want. My guess is that that lack of rewards was not an oversight, but rather they wanted to see first how players would approach the battle to see if it needs some adjustments before adding such rewards.

Honestly, I think that makes sense, and given that people are already cheesing through the Profit Taker in under 5 minutes .. it might have been a good call.

I wasn't around when Eidolons were added, but from what I heard it was something similar. They didn't drop arcanes at first, only shards and articulas. Same with Profit Taker, we now have Toroids ( Vox Solaris equivalent to shards on quills ) and the Articula.

For those of you that were around when PoE was launched, I'm curious how would you compare Profit Taker with Teralyst in terms of the initial challenge ( before meta squads and gear that eventually made Eidolons easy to fight ). Were people also taking down Teralyst in under 5 minutes less than 24 hours after launch?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm PS4 so not had a go at the fight yet, despite the rather negative reactions it's received on here, I'm still looking forward to it.

Something you don't take into account though: How unique the rewards are

Profit taker has 3 new mods, probably won't take long to get them.

Eidolons drop arcanes, there are a lot of them, and it's the only place you can get them.

I think for a release of this importance, there should be something substantial and unique in the drops. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, WabanUK said:

I'm PS4 so not had a go at the fight yet, despite the rather negative reactions it's received on here, I'm still looking forward to it.

Something you don't take into account though: How unique the rewards are

Profit taker has 3 new mods, probably won't take long to get them.

Eidolons drop arcanes, there are a lot of them, and it's the only place you can get them.

I think for a release of this importance, there should be something substantial and unique in the drops. 

The negative reactions are mostly pre and during hotfixes(Like the drop chance for parts from heists there were tweaked later) and they are justified, You folk won't have this hassle.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

it now gives a "good" amount of things that I have absolutely no use for: credits and even more tokens for the already INCREDIBLY easy to cap out each day regular fortuna standing, which you're already required to have max ranked before going into this fight. Credits still aren't a bad addition, mind you! It's fine for those to have been thrown on. But I actually rather dislike the 6k rep toroid being thrown on instead of a bunch of the normal ones; I really wanted an actual fight to be the replacement for getting the toroids you need for all of these items and rank ups, because sitting in one spot and mindless farmsquadding is the most boring S#&$ in the game.

The stuff on the actual table is... like a 1.5% drop chance good archgun mod, some more common iffy one, and some specific radiant relics? I think everything else you'd be better off farming stage 2 for. including all four strain mods, which have atrociously bad drop rates on the bounty tables, but are also dropped by the corpus directors. might even be nekros/hydroidable or something.

I know the fight's been trivialized pretty instantly by actual planning, so they probably wouldn't want to have thrown in anything that unique off the bat. but these heists not even being a reasonable replacement for the AFK farming everything in the syndicate expects you to do still is a huge letdown.

Edited by OvisCaedo
Link to comment
Share on other sites

In a good pub/premade I’ve killed (or more specifically capped) a Teralyst in ~5 minutes.

NOTE: I’m usually just the Harrow who gives invul, I leave DPS and Lure management to others. Typically someone else has a Void Strike Operator build and then another will have some Rivened Vectis or something to one shot limbs. Everyone knows the drill by now

Edited by Almighty_Jado
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, WabanUK said:

Something you don't take into account though: How unique the rewards are

Profit taker has 3 new mods, probably won't take long to get them.

Eidolons drop arcanes, there are a lot of them, and it's the only place you can get them.

I think for a release of this importance, there should be something substantial and unique in the drops. 

I have the same feeling about uniqueness of the reward. I still stand for the conclusion that I made, that the rewards are worth for the time you spent. Thing is, the rewards are very general and added few exciting new things. The mods are actually okay for the new things and there might be only 3 of them, but I'd rather have 3 that can be used rather than having a bunch of mods that are useless.

The new corpus components, Atmo, repeller, and gyromag system, can be used for crafting new weapons. So technically, it reward you with new weapon, i guess? Not bad actually, and I heard good stuff about the shotgun.

Thing is, I do think it's fair, but I also think that they can add something more. Unfortunately I have no idea what that 'something more' is. Or maybe I'm just overthinking

8 hours ago, OvisCaedo said:

But I actually rather dislike the 6k rep toroid being thrown on instead of a bunch of the normal ones; I really wanted an actual fight to be the replacement for getting the toroids you need for all of these items and rank ups

8 hours ago, OvisCaedo said:

these heists not even being a reasonable replacement for the AFK farming everything in the syndicate expects you to do still is a huge letdown.

Yeah, I understand you. If there is a reason that make the reward seems underwhelming, it would be this (or maybe it already is). Terry fight replace the obnoxious vombalyst farming and I was expecting the same from orb fight. So we get giant black ball that gives 6k rep. Nice! But we still need the 3 basic one to rank up, and the fight doesn't give you one. Why not instead of making a new ball, just give us 2 of each type of ball, so we get the same amount of reputation and able to progress our rank. That being said, maybe the reason it is not in the reward table is that so you play the previous heists if you hate the farming so much.

The problem can actually be mitigated though. If the black ball thingy are the requirement to craft weapon or something, it can add values to the big black ball. Still not resolve the problem you have with farming basic toroids, though.

 

Another point that kinda important is that the 'fairness' or the 'worthyness' of the reward depends on the time spent to finishes it. There are players that can finishes it within 5-8 minutes which for them will be fair and okay. Other claims they require double or even tripple the time like 15 or even 20 minutes and by that point, I do agree it is not worth it.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, (XB1)chillichillman said:

a lot of what I've seen about the Profit taker is that it's a mediocre fight with reasonable rewards.  Which is expected, considering this is supposed to be the weakest of three orbs.  maybe the other ones will give more rewards and be more of a challenge.

it better be. IMO DE walk on shaky ground here with the first orb. The next 2 orb has to be successful for their sake.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...