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MPonder

Why "some" semi-auto exist

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8 minutes ago, Roboplus said:

Boy howdy, I sure do enjoy feeling the power in each shot of my Tysis.

Bringing a slow fire rate semi auto to a thread about fast fire rate semi auto.. hmmm...

Tysis is powerful, but many contributing factors even down to its sound effects take away that "power" factor, methinks.  The slowness of it's shots don't help.  I have the same problem with Latron, and it's only ~1 firerate below Lato which I love - but this is yet another example of why Warframe's massive arsenal is awesome - there are people out there who will use Tysis and Latron religiously. 

But then I can pull out Vaykor Marelok, which feels powerful as heck and is slow, something about it just feels right :).  

We all have different ideas of what we want guns to feel like.    

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really, after reading this, yeah, guns should be bound in a way that makes them convert to full auto so long as their fire rate exceeds a certain amount. I think I care about my finger health and mouse life more than game balance or power in each shot, really.

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Just now, Datam4ss said:

really, after reading this, yeah, guns should be bound in a way that makes them convert to full auto so long as their fire rate exceeds a certain amount. I think I care about my finger health and mouse life more than game balance or power in each shot, really.

I think a simple toggle would be fair, the same way as Tiberon - but as somebody else mentioned in the thread, then you are encroaching on the identity of guns, which IS a big part of the game.  If they can all do it above x fire rate, then it's just meh, it's no longer a unique feature and just there.

Also I am not so sure your fingers or mouse should be breaking, shooting fast doesn't mean having to be rough.  None of my controllers have broken from years of semi-auto abuse, nor did I ever lose or hurt any fingers... not saying it doesn't happen, but I don't think I've ever known somebody who destroyed a mouse or their fingers by clicking.  If it is out of your comfort zone than just don't use it?  There are options for you.

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8 hours ago, MPonder said:

It is not preference, I'm saying that a weapon that has it stats balanced around a high fire rate while been semi-auto is just, well, stupid. Are they really expecting people to click even half of that to get some dmg of them.

And are you really telling me that this is to balance things? Sorry, but if that's the case, anybody using a macro for it should be banned and should be blocked to set the mouse wheel shortcut for it. Doing this to balance is so stupid, are you trolling me or what?

 

And even if I can click at that speedy, do you really think I would do that with my mechanical keyboard or LG mouse?

Those guns are for people that aim, get headshot and move on to next target. If you're a dude that like pray & spray then semi-auto wasn't meant for you. That's the point - different guns for different playstyles.

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6 minutes ago, (PS4)Black_Adder_ said:

Those guns are for people that aim, get headshot and move on to next target. If you're a dude that like pray & spray then semi-auto wasn't meant for you. That's the point - different guns for different playstyles.

You are telling me that an Aklato is a weapon to aim, headshot and move on.

Wow, I always thought it as a weapon of aim, hit many bullets in a target in a few seconds, kill, move on. Those #*!%ing 30 base dmg with 10% cc is to head shot and move on, my god, I never thought that.

Sorry, my bad.

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11 hours ago, MPonder said:

you have to click from 420 to 600 times per minute to get the most of them, and this with out and fire-rate mod.

You need to train with Cookie Clicker to get dem MLG spamming skillz.

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3 hours ago, (PS4)lagrue said:

I think a simple toggle would be fair, the same way as Tiberon - but as somebody else mentioned in the thread, then you are encroaching on the identity of guns, which IS a big part of the game.  If they can all do it above x fire rate, then it's just meh, it's no longer a unique feature and just there.
 

I agree to this, while it won't break game balancing since it only takes a matter of seconds for people to bind the mouse wheel in addition to the usual left mouse button.
It also makes it feel less awkward (playing a shooting game by scrolling)

However, it will then make tiberon and some other semi feel less distinct 

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Given that several of them are duel weapons, even creating a trigger called duel which would fire both weapons in quick succession or giving them the duplex trigger of the tigress would half the number of trigger pulls needed.

I agree there is defientaly a place for semi; but I also don’t want to destroy my controller/hand to get reasonable damage out of some of these weapons.

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9 hours ago, (PS4)lagrue said:

Also I am not so sure your fingers or mouse should be breaking, shooting fast doesn't mean having to be rough.  None of my controllers have broken from years of semi-auto abuse, nor did I ever lose or hurt any fingers... not saying it doesn't happen, but I don't think I've ever known somebody who destroyed a mouse or their fingers by clicking.  If it is out of your comfort zone than just don't use it?  There are options for you.

I do a lot of pen and paper writing RL and my fingers are already prone to repetitive strain injury due to looser than normal tendons leading to too much movement potential (yes, I can bend my pinky back to touch my hand's back). Right now I am using an auto fire macro, but really, I feel the identity of a gun isn't that important compared to the practicality of the gun itself.

I use a gaming mouse now, but I destroyed my old mouse from fast firing as it wasn't built to handle such.

Akbolto P, for example, or Arca Scisco, these are high fire rate, low damage, large magazine weapons. It isn't even thematically Semi Auto by overall mechanical design. It's almost like a bunch of full auto guns put to semi auto by DE just to ensure people abuse their fingers and mice.

Things like a Rubico or Tigris, I get it, slow fire, high damage. But a spammy gun should never have a semi auto trigger. It is just contradictory to design and causes unneeded strain to fingers and equipment. I know in real life most of the time you will put the AR to semi auto to save on ammo (I actually do know how to operate firearms, semi auto makes sense in real life), but in real life a single well placed bullet kills. Games ... not so much.

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23 minutes ago, Datam4ss said:

Things like a Rubico or Tigris, I get it, slow fire, high damage. But a spammy gun should never have a semi auto trigger.

I gave a reason on page 1 of why these weapons should exist.  You can control the fire rate, I can shoot super slow, or rapid fire, depending on my needs - something you can't do on an auto weapon with a fixed fire rate... you can do controlled bursts, but never will you get the level of control that ultra fast semi-autos do. 

If it's not suited for you that's fine, but it seems kind of silly to ask to take that away from people who enjoy it.... especially on the premise of how real life gun works, we're essentially super soldiers 1000s of years form now, the weapons Tenno can use don't have to be compatible with real life human's abilities.  They can probably pull triggers faster than a human ever could.  

If they turned Akbolto or Lato Vandal into full autos like people have suggested, it would absolutely ruin the guns for people like me who like the control we get from them.  

My fingers don't get sore, personally... but for somebody like you I would suggest you just use macros instead of taking away other people's toys because they don't suit what you like.  

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9 hours ago, (PS4)lagrue said:

Bringing a slow fire rate semi auto to a thread about fast fire rate semi auto.. hmmm...

Now put Lethal Torrent, Anemic Agility and Gunslinger on it to strip an enemy's armor as fast as possible.

It's a status stacking gun. You mod it for status and fire rate. It's also the only one that can hit 100% corrosive only status proc without a Riven.

It's my main side arm. I have a macro on my mouse specifically for it. But macros suck. I could be using that keybind for something else.

48 minutes ago, (PS4)lagrue said:

My fingers don't get sore, personally... but for somebody like you I would suggest you just use macros instead of taking away other people's toys because they don't suit what you like.  

I have a better idea. How about we give your toy to someone else so they don't get carpal tunnel and you use a press macro that only activates the bound key once until you release the button. Doesn't sound so fair, does it?

This is DE. They are not only capable of making a toggle option for semi-auto/auto, they could have one separate for every semi-auto/auto trigger gun in the game. Then everyone could have a toy.

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5 minutes ago, Roboplus said:

I have a better idea. How about we give your toy to someone else so they don't get carpal tunnel and you use a press macro that only activates the bound key once until you release the button. Doesn't sound so fair, does it?

That's stupid, considering the gun exists a certain way already.  People are asking to change it from its default state.  What you are suggesting is to change it then make other people bend around the changed design.  Your idea of fair is pretty wack.  

Secondly yes, they can change the trigger type - I said that as well, but also noted it encroaches on the identity of guns.

Why doesn't Carpal Tunnel boy just use a gun suited to his needs? 

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On 2018-12-21 at 2:29 AM, MPonder said:

Talking about semis with low base dmg and sometimes also low cc and have a high fire rate to compensate that are semis.

Maybe you should change the thread title then for clarity, to something like "why are some high fire-rate semi-auto weapons not full-auto?" 

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13 minutes ago, Roboplus said:

Now put Lethal Torrent, Anemic Agility and Gunslinger on it to strip an enemy's armor as fast as possible.

It's a status stacking gun.

In what world is the Akbolto with 16% Crit chance and a 2.2% status - a status stacking gun? 
In what world is the Akbolto Prime with 38% Crit chance and a 14% status - a status stacking gun? 
In what world is the Lato Vandal with 26% Crit chance and a 10% status - a status stacking gun?

Mans doesn't even play Warframe, it seems.  Only one of the 3 Akboltos is designed for status, the Telos Akbolto, it's the exception - not the rule.  

Most of the faster semi-autos are tailored to crit.  

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Imagine there was a guy that everyday, go up some place high and throw sh.it in everybody passing on the street. The guy was never caught and as time pass by, he did thousands of victims.

It was made a site about the guy and it had a forum. At a point, someone did a topic about how bad that was, but even in this situation, rises people that defend those actions with the most #*!%.ing reasons and logics you can think about, with things like, "it does good for the skin", "it is warm in the winter", "the guy is just kidding", "somehow, it taste good".

No matter how bad something is, there are always people to defend it, my jesus.

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13 minutes ago, MPonder said:

Imagine there was a guy that everyday, go up some place high and throw sh.it in everybody passing on the street. The guy was never caught and as time pass by, he did thousands of victims.

It was made a site about the guy and it had a forum. At a point, someone did a topic about how bad that was, but even in this situation, rises people that defend those actions with the most #*!%.ing reasons and logics you can think about, with things like, "it does good for the skin", "it is warm in the winter", "the guy is just kidding", "somehow, it taste good".

No matter how bad something is, there are always people to defend it, my jesus.

So because people see no reason to change the gun and think you should just find one that fits your abilities/play style they also would defend someone throwing crap from a roof top?

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you could setup a macro for rapid fire, that alone is okay, some dual pistols have nasty recoil in high rate of fire though.

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14 minutes ago, BloodKitten said:

you could setup a macro for rapid fire, that alone is okay, some dual pistols have nasty recoil in high rate of fire though.

Which is perfectly fine and could act as a balancing factor, but to exclude console players that use standard controllers from having a macro is not ok from a usability/balance perspective.

As noted, just add an alt fire toggle that makes it fire at its maximum rate of fire when the input is held down. Let the player deal with recoil and worse ammo economy for not having to cause physical injury by rapidly pressing the input. Besides. What's the point of having an alt fire input if you can't use it? Just make it tap to execute the alt fire, hold to cycle firing modes. 

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Being able to shoot semi-auto weapons by holding down the fire button would be a QoL change that doesn't increase DPS, but instead makes more of the content available and enjoyable to more people. 

I can't see a reason why they wouldn't want to make this feature. No gun should be physically painful to use. 😛

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This thread was needed, oddly enough I think a more constructive version belongs in feedback. 

13 hours ago, (PS4)lagrue said:

Bringing a slow fire rate semi auto to a thread about fast fire rate semi auto.. hmmm...    

It's not the title of the thread though. In Harrow's hands all semi auto fire fast. And Chroma can reload fast if desired. 

But on  topic of fast semi auto and macros. 

I feel some fire rates are literally to high to humanly "click & aim" Without a macro. This is what we usually call "trigger finger" Being only capable of firing as fast as the user is capable, but due to actual stats there are limitations and adding mods that can be pushed further.... 

Knell for example is probably the god of macro fire, as it consumes no ammo on headshots and essential becomes fully auto as long as you maintain headshots. It also has very reasonable stats to follow suit with its quirk. 

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The problem with "Semi" is unable to reach the maximum firing rate.

Telos Akbolto have a fire rate of 10. Can only reach fire rate of about 8 or 9. The Gunslinger mod shows it should raise fire rate to 17.2, but does not work at all on this weapon. Stuck with a poor fire rate of 8 or 9. This video shows that Steam's repeat (turbo) button on controller doesn't bring the fire rate up at all. When I assign fire weapon and crouch to the same button. I am actually crouching faster then I can fire.

Video: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/352438602

Telos Akbolto is a dual gun. Give me 2 fire buttons so I can fire both guns at the same time by actually using the existing "Secondary fire" button.

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I just bind fire to a macro using the razr software so I don't wear out  my joints and mouse anymore than I already have. I already have to take pain killers for CT. No need to exacerbate it.

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I still don't understand how anyone can defend a semi auto weapon that has a base firerate higher than what 99% of all humans can physically press the input button at.... The only way you're getting 10 firerate in semi auto is by using a non button or a macro or expensive modded controller!

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