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MPonder

Why "some" semi-auto exist

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8 hours ago, (PS4)lagrue said:

In what world is the Akbolto with 16% Crit chance and a 2.2% status - a status stacking gun? 
In what world is the Akbolto Prime with 38% Crit chance and a 14% status - a status stacking gun? 
In what world is the Lato Vandal with 26% Crit chance and a 10% status - a status stacking gun?

Mans doesn't even play Warframe, it seems.  Only one of the 3 Akboltos is designed for status, the Telos Akbolto, it's the exception - not the rule.  

Most of the faster semi-autos are tailored to crit.  

Arca Scisco is a thing. Tysis (something that I feel should remain semi auto since there's enough full auto 100% status guns) is a bit of the "at the boundary weapon" that cannot decide if it is slow and powerful or fast and kinda weak. You also stated the Telos Akbolto, which is very much in the game and has a 29% status chance. 1/3 weapons being status and two out of three weapons being crit doesn't make the 1/3 the exception - if you had a daughter with your wife are you an odd man out? No.

9 hours ago, (PS4)lagrue said:

I gave a reason on page 1 of why these weapons should exist.  You can control the fire rate, I can shoot super slow, or rapid fire, depending on my needs - something you can't do on an auto weapon with a fixed fire rate... you can do controlled bursts, but never will you get the level of control that ultra fast semi-autos do. 

You can also tapfire single shots. If I can do it on a Dual Grakata with Lethal Torrent (technically two shots per press) I believe any other gun is possible, really. The only difference is that you can hold down the button rather than spam click it 7 times a second. As long as you aren't clicking faster than the trigger and don't hold down long enough, it works.

8 hours ago, (PS4)lagrue said:

Why doesn't Carpal Tunnel boy just use a gun suited to his needs? 

Because a bunch of us Carpal Tunnel Boys just happen to like the Arca Scisco and Akbolto P? Is it a crime to like a gun for its aesthetic and overall performance? What if I just like to see the projectiles coming out of two golden guns?

What you are suggesting is like saying a rich man can only enjoy escargots and Filet Mignon, but isn't allowed to have a greasy pack of fries because he's rich.

You say we are taking away your fun, but aren't you doing the same for others?

Macros are a grey area anyway - until DE comes clean about it I won't use it all the time because I am not risking my account getting banned.

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20 hours ago, Mr.SpookSpook said:

No wonder all my mice have to be trashed after a year or less because of a broken left button... A free rolling mouse wheel is only available on pretty expensive mice... I got fed up with hurting my mice and finger and macroed it. You can make macros as long as they do not play instead of you autonomously.

Bro, are you for real? My $20 Logitech mouse has a scroll wheel that goes up and goes down pretty damn quickly. You don't need fancy scroll balls to set the scroll wheel as the primary fire button. >.>

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The tl;dr that I'm getting out of this thread is: CT people need to whine about semi-autos instead of using the bullet hoses that are already in game. Those of us who ENJOY the semi-autos for their higher accuracy and better ammo economy are happy enough click-click-clicking away on controllers and keyboards/mice. Also, you stat padders with your fear of losing DPS need to just use macros already and move on. Maybe make a clan called "Macros Annonymous" and you all join it. The points for semi-auto existing in game are all valid. It's not our fault you guys can't accept that. Grow up and maybe use a different gun, because God help us if you have to use actual SKILL to fire a weapon rather than just spray and pray it hits something.

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3 hours ago, Datam4ss said:

You can also tapfire single shots.

Tap firing and making the fire rate alternate under your full control are not at all the same thing.

Your tap firing won't work the way Semi-Autos with fast fire rate do.  The reality is I can shoot my Lato at 1 RPS, 3 RPS, to 5 RPS depending on how fast I press the button.   That's not a possibility with full-auto.  If you mash the trigger too fast on Full autos it starts bursting multiple bullets at once - this is a loss of control, whether you see that or not. 

I like to control each and every single bullet...  these guns are designed with that in mind - why you want to strip other players of that when you have dozens of full auto options is well beyond me.  

I'm just glad DE will never do these ridiculous things.  People have been asking for like 3-4 years now and it isn't happening.  

And NO nobody is taking away your fun - the guns are ALREADY designed this way.  You either use them or don't.  Nobody is encroaching on your fun because this is the intended design - you are trying to bend the intended design to YOUR desires, the only ones trying to take something away are you guys.  

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I have a lato riven with increased fire rate and I'm on ps4.

Yea carpal tunnel is a thing. Why would I want increased fire rate on a semi if I dont have a turbo controller?

I think rivens need another look as far as what stats just aren't necessary such as projectile flight speed on a hit scan etc

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Look, I can kill with my heavly over modded Semi-autos with prime mods and a riven since this content is so damn easy and you hardly see any difficult content while playing and this is this weapons identity = kill trash mobs while been heavily over modded with 1 or few shots (not saying that you need a riven to be  heavily over modded anyway).

Also I Kill while aiming this mobs with predictable movement pattern and land some headshots, they don't even #*!%ing jump and run in strait lines, and I call this skill.

And even though Lethal Torrent is such a good mod and make this weapons have around 10 fire rate, it is still OK to be semi because of this reason and that #*!%ing logic over there.

And no, they are getting away my toy, no, no, no.

YmzVcDB.jpg

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18 hours ago, Kromatia said:

The tl;dr that I'm getting out of this thread is: CT people need to whine about semi-autos instead of using the bullet hoses that are already in game. Those of us who ENJOY the semi-autos for their higher accuracy and better ammo economy are happy enough click-click-clicking away on controllers and keyboards/mice. Also, you stat padders with your fear of losing DPS need to just use macros already and move on. Maybe make a clan called "Macros Annonymous" and you all join it. The points for semi-auto existing in game are all valid. It's not our fault you guys can't accept that. Grow up and maybe use a different gun, because God help us if you have to use actual SKILL to fire a weapon rather than just spray and pray it hits something.

You can get banned for macros on Xbox and we don't have nice little mice to scroll up and down Willy nilly! Good for you that you can rapid fire your semi auto at speeds us console players and God forbid people on the Switch can't ever possiblity reach because only your worldview and situation matters most! Assuming that we don't have skill because we don't want carpel tunnel from your favorite impossibly high firerate semi auto is really childish, pretty much sums up your non argument.

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14 hours ago, (XB1)Skiller115 said:

You can get banned for macros on Xbox and we don't have nice little mice to scroll up and down Willy nilly! Good for you that you can rapid fire your semi auto at speeds us console players and God forbid people on the Switch can't ever possiblity reach because only your worldview and situation matters most! Assuming that we don't have skill because we don't want carpel tunnel from your favorite impossibly high firerate semi auto is really childish, pretty much sums up your non argument.

Xbox One can now use mouse/keyboard for control, so that part of the argument is invalid. Hook up a keyboard and mouse and you can benefit from the same mechanic. I honestly find the triggers easier to press on the Switch than on my Xbox One controller I use on PC. Especially now that the dead zones have been tweaked and the buttons are far more responsive. The simple solution is to either use a scroll wheel or just use a full auto primary so that you're not relying on the semi auto secondary. Just take Carrier and you'll never run out of ammo on the full auto.

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The argument on this page seems to have developed in an odd direction. "I like semi-auto, I shouldn't have to change how I play." "But I play on console and can't play like you do." "Well, just change how you play and it'll be fine."

There isn't a single thing in any game I've visited the forums of that somebody isn't going to like and complain at the prospect of changing. I remember a huge blow-out on the Payday 2 forums over fixing a map exploit which allowed players to skip the majority of Big Bank, because it hurt the speed-running time of the heist. If changes were made (or even just proposed) when literally nobody complained, no changes would ever be made. Hell, plenty of us complained about the new Gear Wheel, but we were told to shut up and deal with it because someone else wanted more gear items. While I'm fine with accounting for taste, discussions about potential changes really need to be done within the context of game design, not throwing each other's personal preference at the enemy like a javelin.

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You have to understand manual, semi auto and full auto first. Manual is like an old revolver where you have to pull the hammer back before you shoot every time. Semi auto is, once there is a bullet in the barrel/chamber, you squeeze the trigger and get one shot without having to @#&$ the hammer every time. fully auto is hold the trigger for a spray of bullets.

So, semi auto is for when you want to get that headshot affinity bonus or just like being a sniper and full auto is for *YOU ALL DIE NOW!* Semi auto is for low clip low max ammo weapons so that you can conserve ammo.

 

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On 2018-12-21 at 2:14 AM, _Vortus_ said:

To make the Terminator Theme song music.

So this is a common thing then. I always do this subconsciously.

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So, you guys are really telling me that things like the Latos, Akboltos, Ak/Magnus, Vastos, arca scisco were design like Aklex/Lex, Knell, Euphona with this idea of getting a kill with 1/2 shots, preference in the head, and move on to the next target.

Running out of ammo, man, I think the last time it happened to me, was when I did a 1 hour kuva fortess mission with my Prisma Gorgon that had a riven with fire rate. You guys are also telling that it is in these #*!%ing long ass mission that these weapons shine with 1 or 2 few shots in the head.

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4 hours ago, Kromatia said:

Xbox One can now use mouse/keyboard for control, so that part of the argument is invalid. Hook up a keyboard and mouse and you can benefit from the same mechanic. I honestly find the triggers easier to press on the Switch than on my Xbox One controller I use on PC. Especially now that the dead zones have been tweaked and the buttons are far more responsive. The simple solution is to either use a scroll wheel or just use a full auto primary so that you're not relying on the semi auto secondary. Just take Carrier and you'll never run out of ammo on the full auto.

Use a keyboard you say? If I wanted a keyboard to play on my Xbox I would have gotten a PC instead and you sure can send me a mouse and keyboard with a macro to me if you'd like. I still wouldn't use it. Also you mentioned ammo, I said nothing about ammo consumption. Maybe if you actually read my response you'd get the idea. We console players shouldn't be forced to play on our consoles with a mouse just to get the full use out of a low damage high firerate semi auto pistol. Now unlike you ignoring the issue I have a solution. DE could just make these semi auto weapons have like half the firerate but 2x increased damage so a 10 firerate akbolto prime will have instead 5 firerate and with lethal torrent 8 firerate which is a speed at which some people can do instead of the insanity of 16 which no one on Earth can do with a button without breaking the laws of physics!

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On 2018-12-20 at 12:47 PM, (XB1)chillichillman said:

Akbolto (prime) really needs to be auto.  I can only fire it so fast with my trigger, and it really hurts my DPS (and finger.)

use a mouse with a free-spinning scroll wheel. flick down. watch as it fires in semi-auto.  and yes you do have Mouse and keyboard support warframe was the first game to support it

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17 minutes ago, spirit_of_76 said:

use a mouse with a free-spinning scroll wheel. flick down. watch as it fires in semi-auto.  and yes you do have Mouse and keyboard support warframe was the first game to support it

So basically you're saying "buy a mouse problem solved" You can always buy the mouse and keyboard for us because most of us console players don't want to use a mouse and keyboard. Also you're selfishly forgetting that we console players don't play at a desk so I hope your wallet is fat because we're not spending money on a desk, mouse, and keyboard or move furniture just to get optimal dps from a poorly designed gun in a single game! Do you see the problem here? Or only PC players matter to you because that's all I'm seeing right now. Ignore everyone else as long as I'm having fun!

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simply because semi is efficient, recoil more manageable at any time you want and bring diversity. Not because you're not going for HS everybody is just spraying without aiming. when with a pistol I can achieve a 18K hs where body shots do barely 2K, what do you think i'm doing?

There are hundred wepon in game and What do i play? semi auto pistols.

Simply accept the fact some people do prefer semi than spray with a full auto. Simply because they are having fun with it and they feel it more entertaining than autos.
And no, having a high fire rate is not stupid even on a semi. You need a single shot to kill? clic once, you need only 2 shots? double tap, you need 3? triple tape...
I don't wan't to have to fire 5 shots each time i need a single bullet.
Thoses semi were not designed to spray everywhere.
Diversity>different gameplay>entertaining more people.
Put auto every semi weapon and the only difference between most of it will just be sound effect and skin.

Tast and color isn't somthing that can be argued for. Let people loving semi having semi, there are plenty of full auto that you can play.

Now if you feel mendatory to use mouse wheel to achieve higher rate of fire, then maybe try a different wepon. There are plenty more efficient doing auto.


It's like asking "Why destreza used with combo exist when you can coptering with a plague kripath?"
 

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Thread seems to have largely devolved into the usual bickering and accusations.

I'm just going to push the idea again that the problem would probably be best solved-through new and updated mods.  Make Critical Delay and its sister-mod stats stronger and better.  Add equivalent ranged + damage / - fire rate corrupted mods that are appropriate for non-crit weapons.  If it's possible, add  mods that convert semi-auto to auto.  In all cases, the mods should be balanced such that they mostly make up for the loss of a normal mod.

That way, people who like the current system get to keep it.  People who want more options get them.  And DE doesn't have to overhaul the entire ranged weapon system again.

Everybody would be happy.  Haha, who am I kidding.  Well, it would free us up to fight about other things, anyway.

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High fire rate of "Semi" is less efficient with poor FPS of video game consoles with 4 player squads and lots of enemies. Low FPS have bad fire rate limit. Especially Switch console that have a maximum of 30 FPS in this game.

When I limit my PC game's FPS to 30, my firing rate of Telos Akbolto weapon that should have fire rate of 10, farther worsened the maximum fire rate to about 6. I would like to see some fixes to able to reach max firing rate of Semi weapon with a low 30 FPS.

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I can agree to a mod that makes it full auto, but I still don't understand why this is such a hot topic of late. Semi autos have been in the game since day one and only now are they getting flack for being semi auto. I'm sensing a 1:1 correlation with console releases and this topic. PC is not the primary focus of DE. They focus on every port at the same time. Stop using that crybaby excuse for not utilizing the tools at your disposal. Again, I play on PC with an Xbone controller so I understand it's not as responsive as a mouse/keyboard. Big flipping deal. Stop worrying about stats and just enjoy the game. Stop trying to get lemax fired shots out of an Akbolto. Either use mods that lower the fire rate but up damage, or use a full auto pistol. There are plenty.

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1- About macros and mouse wheel shortcut, it reminds me of Terry Crews from Everybody Hates Chris that fixed everything with a duct tape. Just the fact that you have to either do one of them (use a duct tape) to reasonable play with the weapon is an issue. Simple as that, if you can't undertand this, you are a retart, simple as that.

2- The thing for me is not how fast I can click, it is that I don't want to rape my mouse to play with them, nor I'm going to use duct tape.

3- If you really think that medium to high mastery ranks weapons with S#&$ low base dmg and high fire rate were designed to kill targets, even hitting the head, in a few shots because you are filth casuals that can hardly do eidolon and the most difficult thing you do is kills trash 30 level mobs from hydron with them, you are retard, simple as that. But I get it, you guys have this completily wrong idea, since the most high tier level mobs you get are the 40 from Void and 80 from sorties, so, there is like no real endgame, starting to get some difficult with fortuna, so I kind understand from where you guys got this feel of killing in 1 shot with this weapons, but it doesn't make it less retard.

4- Nobody is asking to make every weapon full auto, I like the Urf from my Corinth following with that splash sound of a headshot, I like the fire-rate, animation and how Euphona plays, same for Lex/Aklex. I like my Vaykor Hek with great magazine size and fire-rate while them still been semi. These weapons, I few the power of each shot while destroying the enemy. I don't like bows, but I'm not asking to charge them, I did play a lot with Arca plasmor when I hit 10 since it was so efficient, but I stopped a little after, killing a enemy even if you miss the aim because of the hitbox of its shots make me worry of bad habits, I'm not into AoE weapons, but I'm not asking to change them.

I'm not asking to charge anything based on preference or what I like, I'm simple pointing that weapons with S#&$ low base damage balanced around a #*!%ing high fire while been semi is a completily S#&$ design, without even thinking of how bad that would be for someones hand or equipament. And no, they were not designed to be played with macros or with the mouse wheel, if they where, you wouldn't even need change the fire button shortcut, and no, they were not design so you couldn't get full damage of them.

5- From where the #*!% you guys have this idea of spraying everywhere? You aim, you spray, kill, stop, repeat. Sorry, but if you guys spray everywhere and run out of ammo with autos, how the #*!% you guys even talk about skills?
 

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6 hours ago, Kromatia said:

I can agree to a mod that makes it full auto, but I still don't understand why this is such a hot topic of late. Semi autos have been in the game since day one and only now are they getting flack for being semi auto. I'm sensing a 1:1 correlation with console releases and this topic. PC is not the primary focus of DE. They focus on every port at the same time. Stop using that crybaby excuse for not utilizing the tools at your disposal. Again, I play on PC with an Xbone controller so I understand it's not as responsive as a mouse/keyboard. Big flipping deal. Stop worrying about stats and just enjoy the game. Stop trying to get lemax fired shots out of an Akbolto. Either use mods that lower the fire rate but up damage, or use a full auto pistol. There are plenty.

Why Everytime you speak you distort our arguments and create a strawman that has nothing to do with what we are talking about? You're being intentionally dishonest just so you can rationalize you're opinion. For the last time we don't want DE to remove semi auto okay! We just want the firerate to be a reasonable level. All your hate for consoles is nothing but irrelevant non sequitur!

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On 2018-12-20 at 1:00 PM, Legion-Shields said:

automatic usually makes guns more boring. With semi-auto you can feel the power in each shot.

Okay, but then why are weapons that are powerful semi-auto weapons given a high fire rate, low damage, attack scheme?  That doesn't make sense, but these weapons are fairly common.

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On 2018-12-24 at 3:50 AM, (XB1)Skiller115 said:

Why Everytime you speak you distort our arguments and create a strawman that has nothing to do with what we are talking about? You're being intentionally dishonest just so you can rationalize you're opinion. For the last time we don't want DE to remove semi auto okay! We just want the firerate to be a reasonable level. All your hate for consoles is nothing but irrelevant non sequitur!

Intentionally dishonest? From my observations, it has been primarily console players complaining about le fire rates. Sure, there are some PC users sprinkled in, but not as many from my observations. But to be honest, it does sound like you want them to remove it. "Make semi-autos automatics with a toggle." Yeah. That's getting rid of them and hiding it behind an innocent toggle. The simple solutions to combat this "carpal tunnel" you are suffering is to either take a break, rely on an automatic primary and use the secondary as it was intended - as backup, use a fully auto pistol, or mod the semi-auto to have a lower fire rate with the mods in game. Creeping bullseye will further buff your Lex/Aklex Prime crit chance while also reducing the fire rate that is giving you so much problem. If you don't have it, either buy it from someone or farm it from the vaults.

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On 2018-12-21 at 10:47 PM, Datam4ss said:

Macros are a grey area anyway - until DE comes clean about it I won't use it all the time because I am not risking my account getting banned.

The macro that dude got banned over was due to him using macros to abuse a bug, he would have gotten banned by just spamming the same thing over and over using his fingers albeit slower.

with out going into detail he just had to "Stand in a certain place, press a button get free XP, as fast as you can click the button" basically zero effort entirely except for the part where he just needs to stay awake.

Not only that he went a made a how to video on youtube that showed others how to abuse the bug, he could have got a slap on the wrist, but when you spit in the face of the company and encourage others to do it youre kinda asking for a ban. 

 

On 2018-12-24 at 5:37 AM, MPonder said:

The thing for me is not how fast I can click, it is that I don't want to rape my mouse to play with them, nor I'm going to use duct tape.

This is my deal, i really dont like semi auto on the console cause after 60 minutes in a mission semi autos sorta start to suck on consoles because my fingers begin to physically hurt due to the travel distance on the controller, i need to really mod my controller and put a end stop in it so i can just tap it.

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idk why anybody can be so against an idea of altfire for those weapons. it wont be taking away from your made up benefits for a high rof low damage semi auto pistols, cus yknow, you can still use them as they were and people who dont want to damage their equipment or their finger use full autos. 

and "use a macro/kb and mouse" arguments are stupid as hell. im not going to buy new and possibly expensive equipment just to use a gun in this game, thats just ridicilious when much better solutions actually exist. its not anybody elses problem when you simply dont want them to happen even when they wont affect you at all. 

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