Mesa Prime build, aura and exilus question

[Boulha]

Hey guys, I'd like your opinion about this...

What would you recommend: to use Steel Charge + Power Drift or change to Corrosive Projection + nothing?

In other words, what do  you recommend, 15% power str or -30% armor, considering I'm not using melee at all?

We all build together!

Cheers!

[Bipp]

Corrosive projection or any of the other good utility auras in naramon polarity and exilus.

Personal suggestion would be Enemy Radar and Synth Reflex in exilus or reverse of that meaning speed holster and vigilante pursuit.

The extra strength from power drift is not worth it at all on mesa.

Edited December 20, 2018 by Bipp

[Flames21891]

Corrosive Projection by far, and for your Exilus I feel like Mesa's Waltz is your best bet. You can get all the power strength you need without Power Drift, and Mesa's Waltz sounds basic on paper, but it makes her Peacemakers so much more fluid to use.

[(XBOX)Erudite Prime]

Cool thread but this doesn't belong in Feedback.

[Boulha]

But that's the thing, if I "downgrade" capacity-wise out of Steel Charge I can't fit anything on the exilus slot.

This is my build, I should've already put it in the first post, sorry...

Ps: The Contitution mod in the build is just simulating Vigorous Swap, since the builder doesn't have it yet.

 

15 hours ago, Bipp said:

Corrosive projection or any of the other good utility auras in naramon polarity and exilus.

Personal suggestion would be Enemy Radar and Synth Reflex in exilus or reverse of that meaning speed holster and vigilante pursuit.

The extra strength from power drift is not worth it at all on mesa.

Synth Reflex is not an exilus mod. Did you get confused with another one? I'm using Vigorous Swap, so no need for more holster speed.

 

13 hours ago, Flames21891 said:

Corrosive Projection by far, and for your Exilus I feel like Mesa's Waltz is your best bet. You can get all the power strength you need without Power Drift, and Mesa's Waltz sounds basic on paper, but it makes her Peacemakers so much more fluid to use.

Yeah, I used Mesa Waltz in my regular Mesa, but it add the "high fall" animation, which I don't like at all, so I'm reluctant to use it again.

 

9 hours ago, (XB1)Erudite God said:

Cool thread but this doesn't belong in Feedback.

I didn't find a specific thread for "tips on builds", so I thought would be better to just leave as General, but I agree on the Feedback part... Is there a way to move this? I'm kinda new to forum stuff...

 

I appreciate the comments!

Cheers!

[Bipp]

9 hours ago, Boulha said:

But that's the thing, if I "downgrade" capacity-wise out of Steel Charge I can't fit anything on the exilus slot.

This is my build, I should've already put it in the first post, sorry...

Ps: The Contitution mod in the build is just simulating Vigorous Swap, since the builder doesn't have it yet.

 

Synth Reflex is not an exilus mod. Did you get confused with another one? I'm using Vigorous Swap, so no need for more holster speed.

 

Yeah, I used Mesa Waltz in my regular Mesa, but it add the "high fall" animation, which I don't like at all, so I'm reluctant to use it again.

 

I didn't find a specific thread for "tips on builds", so I thought would be better to just leave as General, but I agree on the Feedback part... Is there a way to move this? I'm kinda new to forum stuff...

 

I appreciate the comments!

Cheers!

Sure you can. Just add another forma for streamline and use only umbra intensify. Do you wanna lock yourself into a bad aura just for 137 HP and 11% strength?

Vigorous swap does not work with peacemakers. It's not really worth using tbh.

Synth Reflex along with Vigilante Pursuit were unlocked for exilus like a month ago.

And yes don't bother with waltz augment. It's really not very good. Why bother with slowing yourself down to 50% speed when you can just recast spam it throughout a bullet jump? You stay mobile, hard to hit and can move around to look at and kill a LOT more stuff than trudging around at a snail's pace.

Only place it's really worth using is ESO but as peacemaker is also restricted by line of sight she's not a very attractive choice their either. saryn ftw.

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

I don’t understand why Corrosive Projection is a good aura on Mesa. Growing Power seems better suited especially if you mod Regulators for Fire Rate and your chosen element. 

I mean, when will you ever have a group that’s 4CP, 3CP + Coaction Drift, 2CP + 2 Coaction Drift ever? And would you even mod your Regulators besides Corrosive if you are in a 4CP scenario?

1 CP is only worth one Corrosive proc if you’re playing solo anyway.

[Bipp]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)Lei-Lei_23 said:

I don’t understand why Corrosive Projection is a good aura on Mesa. Growing Power seems better suited especially if you mod Regulators for Fire Rate and your chosen element. 

I mean, when will you ever have a group that’s 4CP, 3CP + Coaction Drift, 2CP + 2 Coaction Drift ever? And would you even mod your Regulators besides Corrosive if you are in a 4CP scenario?

1 CP is only worth one Corrosive proc if you’re playing solo anyway.

Well, look past Corrosive Projection to the naramon aura pool itself instead. There's a lot better choice there for mesa (and in general) than other aura polarities. Growing Power is  a very weak choice if you consider her peacemaker damage buff is additive to hornet strike. Shooting gallery's damage buff is honestly a laughing stock.

[Kromatia]

I personally use Pistol Amp and Mesa's Waltz for the aura/exilus slots. Pistol Amp will amplify the damage of her Regulators along with Titania's Dex Pixia. If you're going to rely on spamming 4, might as well buff them directly.

[(PSN)Crixus044]

2 hours ago, Bipp said:

Well, look past Corrosive Projection to the naramon aura pool itself instead. There's a lot better choice there for mesa (and in general) than other aura polarities. Growing Power is  a very weak choice if you consider her peacemaker damage buff is additive to hornet strike. Shooting gallery's damage buff is honestly a laughing stock.

Corrosive Projection is only good when others have corrosive projection as well. With the status rate of peacemakers, its really not needed anyways. Enemy radar is nice, though not needed if you got enemy sense, and even then, experience and map awareness makes up for it. It does NOT affect enemy AI or spawns, which is a bad myth that needs to die. GP is great because it provides team buffs, which can in turn buff mesa. The only aura that would have a significant effect on mesa herself would be mecha empowered, which is very situational and needs a doggo to work. Other than that, the choice i go with is GP. Mesa's dps is enough to map wipe as is. What she doesn't have is strong team support, which gp can provide in tandem with her 2.

2 hours ago, Kromatia said:

I personally use Pistol Amp and Mesa's Waltz for the aura/exilus slots. Pistol Amp will amplify the damage of her Regulators along with Titania's Dex Pixia. If you're going to rely on spamming 4, might as well buff them directly.

Pistol amp is a terrible choice because it is additive with hornet strike and her peacemaker damage buff. Most auras are additive to base damage mods, thus unsuited. GP with her buff is +150%×25%= +37.5%, which outweighs the +27% of pistol amp. The buff to regular pistols with just hornet strike is +8%, less when you got rivens and her 2nd ability included. GP also buffs her 1st ability and increases teammate effectiveness much more than a pistol damage amp.

[Kromatia]

I would love to use Growing Power, but I don't have it, so that's a problem. :I

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

On 2018-12-20 at 4:32 PM, Boulha said:

Corrosive Projection + nothing?

My opinion is corrosive projection + either power drift or some kinda utility mod for Mesa. 

 Corrosive projection is always constant and free. All the other auras are gimicky, niche or require some  form of activation first. Armor is a beast in this game, and if you wanna overcome it quickly, CP is the only way to go. And with the right element(s) that will take care of everything else. 

GL to the OP.

Edited December 23, 2018 by (XB1)RDeschain82

[Bipp]

3 hours ago, Kromatia said:

I personally use Pistol Amp and Mesa's Waltz for the aura/exilus slots. Pistol Amp will amplify the damage of her Regulators along with Titania's Dex Pixia. If you're going to rely on spamming 4, might as well buff them directly.

please don't do waltz to yourself.

51 minutes ago, (PS4)Crixus044 said:

GP is great because it provides team buffs, which can in turn buff mesa. The only aura that would have a significant effect on mesa herself would be mecha empowered, which is very situational and needs a doggo to work. Other than that, the choice i go with is GP. Mesa's dps is enough to map wipe as is. What she doesn't have is strong team support, which gp can provide in tandem with her 2.

Pistol amp is a terrible choice because it is additive with hornet strike and her peacemaker damage buff. Most auras are additive to base damage mods, thus unsuited. GP with her buff is +150%×25%= +37.5%, which outweighs the +27% of pistol amp. The buff to regular pistols with just hornet strike is +8%, less when you got rivens and her 2nd ability included. GP also buffs her 1st ability and increases teammate effectiveness much more than a pistol damage amp.

Nah man you both got it all wrong
First, I'll show you two just how big of a different holster rate makes on mesa and why you should use it especially if you plan on spam casting.

 

 

When you can stay as mobile as everyone knows bullet jumping to be and combine that with using peacemaker why on earth would you need to use waltz?

Secondly, the damage bonus from either GP or pistol amp are just too weak to be worth bothering with:

Under normal circumstances we have 220% from hornet strike and 150% from peacemaker's damage buff for a total multiplier of x4.7

Growing Power

1 * ( 1 + 2.2 + 1.5 * 1.25 ) = 5.075

8% stronger than base and 2% stronger than pistol amp

Pistol amp

1 * ( 1 + 2.2 + 1.5 + 0.27) = 4.97

this is only 5% stronger than base.

Another big takeaway from this is building strength on mesa isn't really that good beyond capping Shatter Shield damage reduction. So don't go wasting a slot on power drift either.

Rivens have nothing to do with peacemaker.

1st ability is garbage until they make it a one handed action.

Shooting Gallery is literally worse than pistol amp but is 'saved' by the fact it scales with strength. It's still terrible though.

Ironically enough your team will almost always do better if you all run x4 CP instead of just a single GP or whatever.

 

Edited December 22, 2018 by Bipp
STUPID FORUMS PUTTING ALL MY TEXT INTO THE SPOILERS WHEN I CELARLY CLOSED THE HTML TAGS i CAN'T EVEN EDIT THEM NOW THAT IT'S SAVED WHAT'S THE POINT OF KEEPING HTML FORMATTING IF YOU'RE JUST GONNA REMOVE IT FROM MY CONTROL AT EVERY TURN

[Kromatia]

Unpopular opinion puffin: I actually LIKE the waltz because I can reposition myself to shoot around corners and other obstacles. Obviously, I turn off Peacemaker to make big positioning changes.

[Xzorn]

The real perk of Mesa's Waltz is that it allows her to perform a roll dodge.

Given her normal mitigation and serious vulnerabilities it can be pretty handy active mitigation however it serves no real offensive value.

-

CP for Mesa as her lowest performance is against Armor and I assume you're restricted due to Umbra mods? Don't use them. Having both a Power Range based build and a normal self tank build is made very difficult by trying to use Umbra mods. I guess it's easier if you don't have Primed Vigor and Adaptation on hand.

[(PSN)Crixus044]

On 2018-12-22 at 12:26 AM, Bipp said:

please don't do waltz to yourself.

Nah man you both got it all wrong
First, I'll show you two just how big of a different holster rate makes on mesa and why you should use it especially if you plan on spam casting.

  Hide contents

 

When you can stay as mobile as everyone knows bullet jumping to be and combine that with using peacemaker why on earth would you need to use waltz?

Secondly, the damage bonus from either GP or pistol amp are just too weak to be worth bothering with:

Under normal circumstances we have 220% from hornet strike and 150% from peacemaker's damage buff for a total multiplier of x4.7

Growing Power

1 * ( 1 + 2.2 + 1.5 * 1.25 ) = 5.075

8% stronger than base and 2% stronger than pistol amp

Pistol amp

1 * ( 1 + 2.2 + 1.5 + 0.27) = 4.97

this is only 5% stronger than base.

Another big takeaway from this is building strength on mesa isn't really that good beyond capping Shatter Shield damage reduction. So don't go wasting a slot on power drift either.

Rivens have nothing to do with peacemaker.

1st ability is garbage until they make it a one handed action.

Shooting Gallery is literally worse than pistol amp but is 'saved' by the fact it scales with strength. It's still terrible though.

Ironically enough your team will almost always do better if you all run x4 CP instead of just a single GP or whatever.

 

Those statistics don't really disprove anything i said though.

On 2018-12-21 at 11:39 PM, (PS4)Crixus044 said:

The only aura that would have a significant effect on mesa herself would be mecha empowered, which is very situational and needs a doggo to work.

 Like this. You're just regurgitating what i said, but as i add later, the benefits to others is where the aura shines. If you're using peacemaker, having hornet strike is only better IF you have under 200% PS, otherwise you can replace it with other mods like primed faction mods or elementals, so that stat is of little relevance since it is build dependant. The only thing guaranteed is that pistol amp is not useful.

Building for strength on mesa IS good, you just have to make some adjustments to her loadout to adapt. Her 1st ability is also fine, just needs to be used correctly, like with snipers. Her 2 is more of a good cc ability than a damage buff to me, so i just say whatever lol

Now, when it comes to spam cast, this is a playstyle that only shines in lower level missions, when enemies die from 1 or 2 shots, which doesn't need such optimization anyways. Hell, use half the mods and you're still fine. If you need to spam cast to succeed in more difficult missions (beyond sortie), it's because you're not doing correct map placement (where you stand in the map).

Also, running 4xcp is very overrated. Its a crutch. A very GOOD crutch, but a crutch nonetheless. Firstly, it requires coordination, which is not necessary, nigh impossible in PUGs, and can be easily substituted for alternatives. Why use cp when you got an oberon or saryn, or even a pox. Hell, you can just get a garuda for slash, or even just use the regulator's good status chance. There's alternatives that open up the usage of stronger builds to allow optimization. Comparing 4 cp to 1 gp is silly though. How about 1 enemy radar and 3 GP, or 1 enemy radar, 2 GP, and 1 speed holster? You can't say "those are specific setups, did they don't count." Because 4xcp is a specific setup too.

Consider this. Let's say you got a build that has 170% PS and 1 guy has GP, which is very likely. Now add your gp and you're at 230% PS, which means you can sub out Hornet Strike for something else like primed expel. Lets say your GP teammate is a rhino with a roar build at 214% PS, which is also very common. With gp, he's at 239% PS. By adding gp, you give him AND yourself +5.7% more damage, while giving yourself damage buff. The formula for this situation is this

((1.55*(1+1.5*2.2)/(1+1.5*1.95+2.2))*(1+.5*2.64)/(1+.5*2.39) = benefit of your GP = +15.013%, which is stronger than what many other auras would give.

This is of course a specific (but common) situation, 1 you may encounter tomorrow, but there are actually MORE significant situations than this. The point is, don't judge the benefit to mesa only as the end all, be all. 

Edited December 23, 2018 by (PS4)Crixus044

[Guest]

TBH, despite the listed 10% status chance, using corrosive on the peacemakers, when you have 2.8 bullets per shot on average (Lethal Torrent + Barrel Diffusion) and a fire rate of 20 rounds per second plus all the slash procs, TBH the Peacemakers do strip armor quite well already.

Corrosive Projection is ok, but really the benefit is equivalent to only 1 more corrosive proc and it benefits slow, hard hitting weapons more than fast weapons which can output corrosive procs effectively even with low corrosive chance.

As those guys up there said, Growing power is a good choice. Especially if you reposition all the time, you can permanently keep it up as Status Procs by peacekeeper are considered by it. 

 

[Bipp]

ITT we gimp auras and mod choices for literally <27% damage increases on peacemaker.

But whatever

6 hours ago, (PS4)Crixus044 said:

Those statistics don't really disprove anything i said though.

 Like this. You're just regurgitating what i said, but as i add later, the benefits to others is where the aura shines. If you're using peacemaker, having hornet strike is only better IF you have under 200% PS, otherwise you can replace it with other mods like primed faction mods or elementals, so that stat is of little relevance since it is build dependant. The only thing guaranteed is that pistol amp is not useful.

Building for strength on mesa IS good, you just have to make some adjustments to her loadout to adapt. Her 1st ability is also fine, just needs to be used correctly, like with snipers. Her 2 is more of a good cc ability than a damage buff to me, so i just say whatever lol

Now, when it comes to spam cast, this is a playstyle that only shines in lower level missions, when enemies die from 1 or 2 shots, which doesn't need such optimization anyways. Hell, use half the mods and you're still fine. If you need to spam cast to succeed in more difficult missions (beyond sortie), it's because you're not doing correct map placement (where you stand in the map).

Also, running 4xcp is very overrated. Its a crutch. A very GOOD crutch, but a crutch nonetheless. Firstly, it requires coordination, which is not necessary, nigh impossible in PUGs, and can be easily substituted for alternatives. Why use cp when you got an oberon or saryn, or even a pox. Hell, you can just get a garuda for slash, or even just use the regulator's good status chance. There's alternatives that open up the usage of stronger builds to allow optimization. Comparing 4 cp to 1 gp is silly though. How about 1 enemy radar and 3 GP, or 1 enemy radar, 2 GP, and 1 speed holster? You can't say "those are specific setups, did they don't count." Because 4xcp is a specific setup too.

Consider this. Let's say you got a build that has 170% PS and 1 guy has GP, which is very likely. Now add your gp and you're at 230% PS, which means you can sub out Hornet Strike for something else like primed expel. Lets say your GP teammate is a rhino with a roar build at 214% PS, which is also very common. With gp, he's at 239% PS. By adding gp, you give him AND yourself +5.7% more damage, while giving yourself damage buff. The formula for this situation is this

((1.55*(1+1.5*2.3)/(1+1.5*1.95+2.2))*(1+.5*2.64)/(1+.5*2.39) = benefit of your GP = +19.025%, which is stronger than what many other auras would give.

This is of course a specific (but common) situation, 1 you may encounter tomorrow, but there are actually MORE significant situations than this. The point is, don't judge the benefit to mesa only as the end all, be all. 

tl;dr: growing power is too weak to make a difference when it matters unlike cp so don't pigeonhole yourself into bad aura polarities.

now i'll address each point

If you wanna ignore the maths fine.

I don't know whether or not mecha empowered's damage bonus is multiplicative or additive. If it's the latter it'll at least be better than GP and PA. But again, even at 220% dropping hornet for a bane (which is your best bet) you're getting no more than 23% effective increase that's target limited on a silly cooldown.

Flexing literally no more than a 21.2% damage increase comparing 144% strength and 220% or 24.3% increase if you drop hornet strike for a primed bane. Spending 3 mod slots for, at best, a 24.3% effective damage increase is quite frankly dumb.

Spam casting in mid air when you want to be doing your best to avoid damage at high levels where things can and will actually kill you is a bad thing? What madness is this?

This bit about x4 CP is just so full of contradictions and nonsense I don't know where to start.

If it's an overrated crutch then you don't need it or the pisspoor <25% damage increases you're getting from using Growing Power and neither do any other team buffs.

x4 CP requiring coordination is a bad thing when needing an oberon or saryn to do the same thing isn't? How are you gonna make good use of the pox if you have no holster mods? Recasting is clunky as all hell as literally everyone playing this game for more than a second will know and has been complaining about for literally years. You're opting for things that are not instant or arbitrarily limited beyond Mesa's control over something that is instant and needs no control whatsoever. Where's the sense in this?

And again, alternatives that open up usage of stronger builds? It's literally no stronger than 25% and you're sacrificing up to 3 mods to achieve this. Why?

Valid point about specific setups but again, if you really need more damage as mesa you're better off using x4 cp. "But i need to coordinate it!" is a stupid point because who does hours long content in pubs? Literally nobody.

Going back to my previous point (and strongly reiterate) if you need more damage then your team should be coordinating x4 CP not pissing your pants about a 5.7% increase as you put it.

x2 GP gives our 170% strength mesa with expel 220% strength total and rhino 239% so that's

1 * ( 1 + 1.5 * 2.2 ) * 1.55 * ( 1 + 0.5 * 2.39) = x14.63 multiplier

Dropping GP on mesa gives us

1 * ( 1 + 1.5 * 1.95 ) * 1.55 * ( 1 + 0.5 * 2.14 ) = x12.59 mutliplier

That's a 16.2% effective damage loss. Again, pretty weak and will barely make any difference once armour starts piling up. So again, literally not needed.

I'll leave waltz alone because that really is a preference thing (even though it's a choice that encourages lazy unskillful play but whatever that's just my opinion).

Edited December 22, 2018 by Bipp

[Boulha]

Ok, so I won't quote anyone because everybody got a valid point and I appreciate all the time spent into writing all this stuff.

What I'm thinking after all the comments:

• Holster speed is great and unfortunately Vigorous Swap doesn't work (the dmg part), so I'm almost set on Synth Reflex on Exilus, since it drain only 7 from capacity
• Auras doesn't change many things, but CP is not the default answer as I thought
• PVigor, which i don't have yet, could be a good option
• Power Strength will be the last mod of the build, not the first...
• I was using Narrow Minded and PContinuity to get almost 1 min of her 2 and 3, but since the dmg buff on her 2 is not that great and with no range the CC part is also terrible, I'm  painfully considering dropping NM to get at least the CC back.

In the end what I'm sitting at is:

• 3 Mods: PFlow, Fleeting Rank 4, Streamline (for energy management)
• 1 Mod: PContinuity to get the duration back up (around 30s on her 2 and 3)
• 1 Mod: Adaptation, which works very well with shatter shield
• 1 Exilus: Synth Reflex, for Holster Speed.

Now I need Survivability / Power Strength and choose an Aura*. I'm thinking of some options and will post here later.

*I already have an dash in my aura, but i don't care changing if necessary.

[Xzorn]

9 hours ago, Datam4ss said:

Corrosive Projection is ok, but really the benefit is equivalent to only 1 more corrosive proc and it benefits slow, hard hitting weapons more than fast weapons which can output corrosive procs effectively even with low corrosive chance.

 

Long as you're not fully stripping enemy armor which Peacemaker doesn't; CP is still 34% increased damage output against Armor.

Yea it's 1.5 Corrosive procs but it's free.

Most of the other good Aura options are --- polarity anyways so there's not much harm in going with that.

[Xzorn]

Oh and I don't know about Builder's Peacemaker.

I recorded at 60 FPS put it in a video editor and went frame by frame counting the shots and it was 15 per second. Without mods of course. This was before Peacemaker's FPS relationship was removed. Hence 60 FPS so that might have changed. I'll prolly get back and check again.

[(PSN)Crixus044]

8 hours ago, Bipp said:

ITT we gimp auras and mod choices for literally <27% damage increases on peacemaker.

But whatever

tl;dr: growing power is too weak to make a difference when it matters unlike cp so don't pigeonhole yourself into bad aura polarities.

now i'll address each point

If you wanna ignore the maths fine.

I don't know whether or not mecha empowered's damage bonus is multiplicative or additive. If it's the latter it'll at least be better than GP and PA. But again, even at 220% dropping hornet for a bane (which is your best bet) you're getting no more than 23% effective increase that's target limited on a silly cooldown.

Flexing literally no more than a 21.2% damage increase comparing 144% strength and 220% or 24.3% increase if you drop hornet strike for a primed bane. Spending 3 mod slots for, at best, a 24.3% effective damage increase is quite frankly dumb.

Spam casting in mid air when you want to be doing your best to avoid damage at high levels where things can and will actually kill you is a bad thing? What madness is this?

This bit about x4 CP is just so full of contradictions and nonsense I don't know where to start.

If it's an overrated crutch then you don't need it or the pisspoor <25% damage increases you're getting from using Growing Power and neither do any other team buffs.

x4 CP requiring coordination is a bad thing when needing an oberon or saryn to do the same thing isn't? How are you gonna make good use of the pox if you have no holster mods? Recasting is clunky as all hell as literally everyone playing this game for more than a second will know and has been complaining about for literally years. You're opting for things that are not instant or arbitrarily limited beyond Mesa's control over something that is instant and needs no control whatsoever. Where's the sense in this?

And again, alternatives that open up usage of stronger builds? It's literally no stronger than 25% and you're sacrificing up to 3 mods to achieve this. Why?

Valid point about specific setups but again, if you really need more damage as mesa you're better off using x4 cp. "But i need to coordinate it!" is a stupid point because who does hours long content in pubs? Literally nobody.

Going back to my previous point (and strongly reiterate) if you need more damage then your team should be coordinating x4 CP not pissing your pants about a 5.7% increase as you put it.

x2 GP gives our 170% strength mesa with expel 220% strength total and rhino 239% so that's

1 * ( 1 + 1.5 * 2.2 ) * 1.55 * ( 1 + 0.5 * 2.39) = x14.63 multiplier

Dropping GP on mesa gives us

1 * ( 1 + 1.5 * 1.95 ) * 1.55 * ( 1 + 0.5 * 2.14 ) = x12.59 mutliplier

That's a 16.2% effective damage loss. Again, pretty weak and will barely make any difference once armour starts piling up. So again, literally not needed.

I'll leave waltz alone because that really is a preference thing (even though it's a choice that encourages lazy unskillful play but whatever that's just my opinion).

Tl;dr I can't optimize beyond 4xcp, so that's all i will accept as an answer.

I have no idea what point you're tryna prove, all you did was restate everything i said and add that you don't like how it DOES work. You keep bringing up 4xcp, but pushing for that is making your limits very apparent, because CP hasn't been a requirement for years if you can think outside the meta box. We have so many ways to bypass armor, it isn't even fair anymore.

Solo CP is proven useless. It's equal to a single corrosive proc, which on a status regulator is silly. While solo GP is actually the largest damage buff of the auras (except mecha empowered which IS multiplicative, already tested, you're welcome) and can be the deciding factor for removing hornet strike. Amp mods are out of the question (dead eye is better than shooting gallery BUT when using snipers, you should be synergizing with her 1st, which is additive to total base, thus GP is again better).

CP only takes over as being more effective for ttk when multiple players have it, which is a coordinated effort. If you're doing a coordinated effort, then you can't rule out the use of armour strip frames, which don't need CP, thus we're back to GP lol

In cases when you are solo, GP is best. In cases when you are in public matches, GP is again better unless you're lucky and get multiple cp players, which isn't likely. In cases when you're coordinating a team, you're going for optimization. You can have a CP squad, but it isn't optimized, since you don't need it to armor strip. You can coordinate armor stripping player and have GP and you'll be optimized. So either way, for the best performance, GP is best.

You CAN argue for holster speed and enemy radar, which you are 100% correct in that they are really good, but these are comfort things, not a performance thing. Map awareness and positioning skills negate the necessity, but it does have a place, unlike CP which is only good for team comps that can't afford a pox or armor strip player, like eidolon hunts and such, which need only 3 CP and 2 Coaction Drift,  so you can still fit a GP.

Edited December 22, 2018 by (PS4)Crixus044

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

3 hours ago, (PS4)Crixus044 said:

In cases when you are solo, GP is best. In cases when you are in public matches, GP is again better unless you're lucky and get multiple cp players, which isn't likely. In cases when you're coordinating a team, you're going for optimization. You can have a CP squad, but it isn't optimized, since you don't need it to armor strip. You can coordinate armor stripping player and have GP and you'll be optimized. So either way, for the best performance, GP is best.

I disagree that GP is best for two reasons:

1. It requires activating. PM can't do that. GP cannot be activated by using exalted weapons. (Only If the buff is active when you cast/activate PM, it will affect the ability for as long as it stays active)

2. It only last 6 seconds before it needs to be refreshed again. 

Those two reasons alone are enough for me to stick with CP on Mesa.  

Edited December 23, 2018 by (XB1)RDeschain82

[Bipp]

14 hours ago, (PS4)Crixus044 said:

Tl;dr I can't optimize beyond 4xcp, so that's all i will accept as an answer.

I have no idea what point you're tryna prove, all you did was restate everything i said and add that you don't like how it DOES work. You keep bringing up 4xcp, but pushing for that is making your limits very apparent, because CP hasn't been a requirement for years if you can think outside the meta box. We have so many ways to bypass armor, it isn't even fair anymore.

Solo CP is proven useless. It's equal to a single corrosive proc, which on a status regulator is silly. While solo GP is actually the largest damage buff of the auras (except mecha empowered which IS multiplicative, already tested, you're welcome) and can be the deciding factor for removing hornet strike. Amp mods are out of the question (dead eye is better than shooting gallery BUT when using snipers, you should be synergizing with her 1st, which is additive to total base, thus GP is again better).

CP only takes over as being more effective for ttk when multiple players have it, which is a coordinated effort. If you're doing a coordinated effort, then you can't rule out the use of armour strip frames, which don't need CP, thus we're back to GP lol

In cases when you are solo, GP is best. In cases when you are in public matches, GP is again better unless you're lucky and get multiple cp players, which isn't likely. In cases when you're coordinating a team, you're going for optimization. You can have a CP squad, but it isn't optimized, since you don't need it to armor strip. You can coordinate armor stripping player and have GP and you'll be optimized. So either way, for the best performance, GP is best.

You CAN argue for holster speed and enemy radar, which you are 100% correct in that they are really good, but these are comfort things, not a performance thing. Map awareness and positioning skills negate the necessity, but it does have a place, unlike CP which is only good for team comps that can't afford a pox or armor strip player, like eidolon hunts and such, which need only 3 CP and 2 Coaction Drift,  so you can still fit a GP.

It's quite funny how hard you're clinging to the points about CP.

What I'm not trying but have proven is the opportunity cost of using 3 goddamn mod slots for, like I've already shown you, literally no more than a 27% effective damage increase. That's not ONLY ABOUT CP. It's about the aura polarity as a whole. This isn't some lame MMO game where such a small damage increase at the cost of a lot of really good QoL is a worthwhile tradeoff. Let me remind you:

" tl;dr: growing power is too weak to make a difference when it matters unlike cp so don't pigeonhole yourself into bad aura polarities."

oh but woops I see CP is mentioned. That completely invalidates my point huh.

But whatever dude you can keep wasting your mod slots if you really wanna flex that epeen.

 

 

Edited December 23, 2018 by Bipp

[(PSN)Crixus044]

6 hours ago, Bipp said:

It's quite funny how hard you're clinging to the points about CP.

What I'm not trying but have proven is the opportunity cost of using 3 goddamn mod slots for, like I've already shown you, literally no more than a 27% effective damage increase. That's not ONLY ABOUT CP. It's about the aura polarity as a whole. This isn't some lame MMO game where such a small damage increase at the cost of a lot of really good QoL is a worthwhile tradeoff. Let me remind you:

" tl;dr: growing power is too weak to make a difference when it matters unlike cp so don't pigeonhole yourself into bad aura polarities."

oh but woops I see CP is mentioned. That completely invalidates my point huh.

But whatever dude you can keep wasting your mod slots if you really wanna flex that epeen.

 

 

Ugggh, you again?

This isn't about what the game needs. If we went by what the game needs to be completed, we wouldn't use half the mods in our arsenal. This is another issue for another time though.

Warframe isn't exactly an mmo, but it's pretty close. In fact, some call it an MMO Lite. I don't dabble too much in the nomenclature, but whenever it comes to building and setups, warframe takes HEAVILY from the mmo style. You cannot deny this, thus the +20% increase i give is valid, while you have yet to give something more than a free corrosive proc,  QoL improvement that CAN be negated, or a coordinated aura combo that's no longer optimal.

There are players that need that little bit of damage (it's actually more than a little when full comps are considered, but whatever). They are a small and growing community called the endurance community. They show that our frames can and possibly should be fighting much higher levels. Summit, an endurance youtuber took his mesa into a 2 1/2 hour MoT. That's level 600+. And no, he used no exploits, no cheese, just peacemaker. By his own admission (i know him personally), he admitted his build was not optimized, as he had over 200% PS while using hornet strike, and this was done in January. With the new mods we have, he would be able to go even further beyond. The formula for what he would've done if he had umbral mods and primed expel would be

(1.55*(1+1.5*2.5+.25*2.5))/(1+2.2+1.5*2.25+.25*2.25) = +16.725% with more health and arcane survivability taking him to higher levels.

Point is that some people do need it, and they show how what the game as it stands needs is very little. Also, this isn't about sacrificing 3 mods for more damage, it's only more damage. It's simply better. It's not a sacrifice, it's an improvement. Sacrifice implies that i lose anything i had before.

I see a lot of people throw out epeen accusations whenever they refuse to concede, even when they know they have been corrected. Let me clear, the only thing i gain from this is teaching people how to make the best of what they got, so that we can all improve and eventually get harder content. I gain nothing else from correcting you.

Edited December 23, 2018 by (PS4)Crixus044