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With all of the Riven debate, is it really wise to add Arch-Gun Rivens?


DrBorris
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In Devstream #121 [DE]Steve just let it out that they were looking into adding Arch-Gun Rivens although it is important to note that [DE]Rebecca quickly went into damage control mode and said something along the lines of "nothing is decided for certain." But just the thought that DE is so gung-ho about more Rivens while this has been such a contentious issue within the community is unsettling.

Those that like Rivens and like the prospect of Arch-Gun Rivens I just ask you to take a step back and look at the whole picture. Whether you like Rivens are not, you cannot deny that this is a heavily debated issue. And you can't honestly say that either side is fully "right". DE is still yet to comment on some of the issues some have with Rivens, [DE]Scott's response to stat locking was not helpful and if anything made it clear that even within DE there is some division on the subject. Even if you disagree with Riven-haters, have some respect for the other side.

Just to quote [DE]Scott on Rivens: "I think the problem with doing that for us is Rivens are really, really powerful or can be really, really powerful. Like the upper end stats that are possible on those are really, really high and almost game-breaking high in a lot of cases."

 

Also, the whole point of Rivens "breathing new life" into lesser used weapons is completely moot on Arch-weapons. There are so few weapons, and many are already viable, in this case it would make a lot more sense to just do a quick balance pass. If anything Rivens will just make Arch-guns less balanced.

 

DE, if you are going to move forward with Rivens, out of respect for those of us that dislike them all I ask is that you explain yourself. Why do our woes with Rivens not matter? Why will the game be better if Arch-guns have Rivens?

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One more note that I'd like to make but did not think it would fit in the OP.

I actually imagine something good for everyone that could come out of Arch-gun Rivens, and that would be to use them as a test bed for a "Riven rework." Try a new type of system that would hopefully address some of the issues people have with Rivens with the intent that it could be expanded to all Rivens if everything went well.

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I'd rather they just give each archgun 1 or 2 'special' mods which drop from the orbs or something.  These mods would increase the main 'selling points' of each weapon or give it a reason to be used over another one, in other words a unique selling point because as it stands now it seems we've just gone back to the 'sniper rifle' plus chroma as the meta for the orbs....

24 minutes ago, DrBorris said:

One more note that I'd like to make but did not think it would fit in the OP.

I actually imagine something good for everyone that could come out of Arch-gun Rivens, and that would be to use them as a test bed for a "Riven rework." Try a new type of system that would hopefully address some of the issues people have with Rivens with the intent that it could be expanded to all Rivens if everything went well.

To be fair they can fix the riven issue REALLY easily, just remove the 'popularity' aspect of the disposition and base it purely on performance.

Edited by LSG501
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2 hours ago, LSG501 said:

I'd rather they just give each archgun 1 or 2 'special' mods which drop from the orbs or something.  These mods would increase the main 'selling points' of each weapon or give it a reason to be used over another one, in other words a unique selling point because as it stands now it seems we've just gone back to the 'sniper rifle' plus chroma as the meta for the orbs....

To be fair they can fix the riven issue REALLY easily, just remove the 'popularity' aspect of the disposition and base it purely on performance.

Would definitely can my "keep it secret, keep it safe" mentality for not using my best gun-riven combos, but I'd still worry about them getting the nerf axe.

Edited by CataReverb
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5 hours ago, LSG501 said:

To be fair they can fix the riven issue REALLY easily, just remove the 'popularity' aspect of the disposition and base it purely on performance.

You could have said "sensibly", or "simply".  You could  have said "with great panache", 'by unleashing their righteous wrath upon us", or even "with a certain je ne sais quoi".  

But no, you had to go and use the word "easily".  And not just easily, but "REALLY easily". 

You deserve THREE  rolly eye emoji for that, but I'm gonna let you off with just one and this weird thing this time: 🙄 🐽

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9 hours ago, DrBorris said:

In Devstream #121 [DE]Steve just let it out that they were looking into adding Arch-Gun Rivens although it is important to note that [DE]Rebecca quickly went into damage control mode and said something along the lines of "nothing is decided for certain." But just the thought that DE is so gung-ho about more Rivens while this has been such a contentious issue within the community is unsettling.

Those that like Rivens and like the prospect of Arch-Gun Rivens I just ask you to take a step back and look at the whole picture. Whether you like Rivens are not, you cannot deny that this is a heavily debated issue. And you can't honestly say that either side is fully "right". DE is still yet to comment on some of the issues some have with Rivens, [DE]Scott's response to stat locking was not helpful and if anything made it clear that even within DE there is some division on the subject. Even if you disagree with Riven-haters, have some respect for the other side.

Just to quote [DE]Scott on Rivens: "I think the problem with doing that for us is Rivens are really, really powerful or can be really, really powerful. Like the upper end stats that are possible on those are really, really high and almost game-breaking high in a lot of cases."

 

Also, the whole point of Rivens "breathing new life" into lesser used weapons is completely moot on Arch-weapons. There are so few weapons, and many are already viable, in this case it would make a lot more sense to just do a quick balance pass. If anything Rivens will just make Arch-guns less balanced.

 

DE, if you are going to move forward with Rivens, out of respect for those of us that dislike them all I ask is that you explain yourself. Why do our woes with Rivens not matter? Why will the game be better if Arch-guns have Rivens?

 

Debated by who?

Rivens are only debated by those that don't have good ones last I knew, another argument from salt, ie, "please nerf vets because I feel entitled to be as cool as them without having to play/invest as much", this argument takes a lot of forms but its always the same premise, whether it's nerfing saryn, removing damage mods, killing off rivens, whatever... It's all the same " I wanna be as cool as the 5000 hour guys when I have 200 hours".  No, you can earn it like everyone else, and not even, because all this stuff is easier and cheaper to acquire over time.  That's why day one rivens are 1000s of plat and then quickly drop to a few hundred unless it's a new meta weapon.  Put your time in and you can be a super space ninja too.

If you have rivens and don't like them there is a great solution available in that you dont have to use them and you don't have to play with people that use them either, how cool is that?

As for me, I don't care who doesn't like rivens for arch guns, they can be salty all day, I'll be enjoying my rivens and tearing apart content w oth the most meta set ups that can be mathematically achieved because there's a secret here you're missing: winning more often at warframe is about efficiency.  Warframe is a grind game, so efficiency is king.  If you came here for challenge, you picked the wrong game.

I'm not against challenge but that's likely never going to happen again for me in this game outside of personal goals I set like winning the dojo frame contest or possibly the first time I fight a new boss with a mechanic I don't know about yet.  

Additionally, as someone else stated, you know who pays de's bills?  People that buy plat.  You know what promotes plat sales?  More overpriced rivens 🙂

welcome to the new world of arch gun rivens, I just don't know how you didn't already see this coming...

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33 minutes ago, ShortCat said:

I am really bothered by the direction this is going. In the Tactical Potato interview Steve basicly admitted they created a monster. And now they think about expading the issues and adding Rivens to AW? What is next, Rivens for amps?

Amps don't use mods.

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>_> would certainly make more sense for the arch guns to use regular mods anyway...  Fluctus could use bow mods,  grattler launchers,  velocitus sniper mods,  duel decurions pistol mods etc.  Then they could actually be balanced as normal weapons,  no new mods to add or farm,  and they could get that brief "omg" moment that they were originally looking for rather than a mediocre sidegrade,  rivens or no rivens. 

 

Back to the riven topic,  it feels like there is far too few mods to select from for arch guns to make rivens less than a necessity. As it is im sure many of us just filled our arch guns with whatever we could stuff in there since there really wasnt much in the way of choice to where it didnt matter anyway since enemies died quickly as soon as you put around four mods in. Put in now rivens would be necessities,  and prices would be suuuper high for the popular guns like the velocitus

Edited by LuckyCharm
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