Mining minigame: target vs aiming inconsistency

[Tyreaus]

For those who might not know how the mining process works: https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Mining#Mining_Process

In short: the aim is to highlight half of a bracketed area by holding and releasing the trigger button.

The problem is:

1. The highlighting uses discrete pips
2. The bracketed area, at least in position but possibly also in size, is continuous (i.e. it doesn't need to encompass an even or whole number of pips)

This can create confusing visual feedback when, for example, the bracketed area has a pip in the approximate middle. In at least some such cases, it's unclear whether the player is meant to highlight that middle pip or not. When one pip makes the difference between a good and imperfect cut, this isn't an ideal scenario and is liable to lead to consternation.

_{A similar sort of issue occurs with the miniature, bonus brackets that reward extra gems, which seem meant to target a single pip but rarely do (and I'm not even sure if it's meant to encompass 1 pip or 2)}

A few solutions:

1. Ideal solution: Make the highlighting continuous. This allows players to aim for perfect cuts without guess-rounding to a particular pip.
2. Alternative: Force the bracketed areas into an even number of pips. This makes it clear where the half-mark is in each. This would require reworking how the moving brackets work, however.

Either solution matches the target and the aiming capabilities of the player. Visual feedback becomes accurate.

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

I get where your going with this

but really the control inputs are so clumsy, not to mention screen lag and etc. that I'd say any accuracy gains from the proposed change are going to be irrelevant compared to the margin of error.

Mining is pretty RNG for me with the new system.

Much prefer the old Steady Hand minigame

[(PSN)N7_Dredgen]

21 minutes ago, (PS4)haphazardlynamed said:

I get where your going with this

but really the control inputs are so clumsy, not to mention screen lag and etc. that I'd say any accuracy gains from the proposed change are going to be irrelevant compared to the margin of error.

Mining is pretty RNG for me with the new system.

Much prefer the old Steady Hand minigame

Input lag is most definitely on your end, if your setup is proper then there is no screen lag.  This could be anything from faulty HDMI to even a poor controller connection - but If your Controller, TV and PS4 are communicating properly then the margin of error in the new system is almost 0.  I get 5 star cuts 90%+ of the time now.  It's perfectly timed to my actions on the controller, the only error comes from my own personal timing - but not input lag.  

On the reverse I hate the old system, it's an excursion in frustration trying to trace a shape with analogs - that's why the vast majority of people just started scibbling the nodes to finish them.  It was a system very much designed for mouse and keyboard.  For it to be good on controller you have to turn your aim sensitivity down, those of us who play with high sensitivity this becomes a nightmare, no matter how steady you are.   
 

Edited December 22, 2018 by (PS4)lagrue

[Steel_Rook]

The problem isn't the discrete pips. It's that there's no clear indication to the player of what would constitute a perfect cut. All of the official instructions that I've found at least just instruct you to land somewhere in the bracketed area, without suggesting there's any difference as to exactly WHERE in there. I'm still not entirely sure exactly how much that even matters, because I've gotten perfect cuts on the border and bad cuts in the middle. If the player is meant to land in the middle, then an indicator of where the "middle" is and which pips constitute "the middle" would be the logical first step.

If you expect the player to aim precisely, tell the player what to aim for.

[peterc3]

3 hours ago, Steel_Rook said:

The problem isn't the discrete pips. It's that there's no clear indication to the player of what would constitute a perfect cut. All of the official instructions that I've found at least just instruct you to land somewhere in the bracketed area, without suggesting there's any difference as to exactly WHERE in there. I'm still not entirely sure exactly how much that even matters, because I've gotten perfect cuts on the border and bad cuts in the middle. If the player is meant to land in the middle, then an indicator of where the "middle" is and which pips constitute "the middle" would be the logical first step.

If you expect the player to aim precisely, tell the player what to aim for.

Perfect is now RNG as far as I can tell. That appears to be the cost of removing the "skill" game.

[Steel_Rook]

The patch notes which introduced the new mining system seemed to suggest that the "skill" element was being retained with the new system, though. Experience leads me to suspect it's all RNG, but a lot of people still claim that nailing the exact centre is necessary. This is the problem with lack of systems transparency. We're told to "do well" without being told what that actually means.

[Elementalos]

Man, here I thought the new mining system was just "wiggle the laser over the vein and make sure to hit all the dots."

[Tyreaus]

On 2018-12-22 at 6:44 PM, Steel_Rook said:

The problem isn't the discrete pips. It's that there's no clear indication to the player of what would constitute a perfect cut. All of the official instructions that I've found at least just instruct you to land somewhere in the bracketed area, without suggesting there's any difference as to exactly WHERE in there. I'm still not entirely sure exactly how much that even matters, because I've gotten perfect cuts on the border and bad cuts in the middle. If the player is meant to land in the middle, then an indicator of where the "middle" is and which pips constitute "the middle" would be the logical first step.

If you expect the player to aim precisely, tell the player what to aim for.

Lack of guidance is definitely a problem as well. I do think the discrete / continuous problem would still show up even if the target area was highlighted, depending on its size (if it highlights 1 pip and lands between pips...), but it's not like fixing that solves a consistency / guidance issue.

[peterc3]

16 hours ago, Steel_Rook said:

The patch notes which introduced the new mining system seemed to suggest that the "skill" element was being retained with the new system, though.

My impression is that is only the occasional tiny bonus bracket that rewards several other resources than the one that is being mined.

[Chaemyerelis]

I aim for the middle of the bracket and get the 5 stars. 🤷‍♂️

[Steel_Rook]

8 hours ago, Tyreaus said:

Lack of guidance is definitely a problem as well. I do think the discrete / continuous problem would still show up even if the target area was highlighted, depending on its size (if it highlights 1 pip and lands between pips...), but it's not like fixing that solves a consistency / guidance issue. 

That depends on how you do guidance. If you colour the "middle pips" in a different shade (say, white) then the player will know exactly which pips they need to land on, rather than having to eyeball a guess. And again - that's assuming the middle actually matters, which I'm still not entirely sure it does.

 

3 hours ago, Chaemyerelis said:

I aim for the middle of the bracket and get the 5 stars. 🤷‍♂️

I aim for the middle of the bracket and get 5 stars sometimes. Sometimes I land dead in the middle and get 2.5 stars. Sometimes I land crooked on the far end of the brackets and get 5 stars. There's something more to this than just landing in the middle.

[Sloan441]

18 hours ago, Elementalos said:

Man, here I thought the new mining system was just "wiggle the laser over the vein and make sure to hit all the dots."

That's how I've treated it. There's always another node. Quantity has a quality all its own. 

One thing I did notice was to turn down mouse sensitivity when mining. Fortunately, I can do it on the fly, but I quickly learned that 16k dpi is a bit much for the mining game. Some days you're twitchier than others and kicking sensitively down a few notches prevents that lurching out of assorted sweet spots due to the frailties of the flesh.