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The Growing Exalted/Built-in Weapon Theme


CTAutopsy
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With the release of Garuda and her claws, and Baruuk and his fists, I started wondering where else the theme of innate and built in weapon types, and exalted weapons in general, could fit on existing warframes and possibly refresh old kits. 

I was wondering if anyone else had ideas and if a few that come to mind sounded interesting and/or good. 

 

Zephyr came to mind first, and I thought Exalted/Built-in Fans -OR- Tonfas would fit amazingly.

- Her forearms look like they could be, or could be concealing either of those things.

- They would fit as instruments of her wind-y powers great, like Garuda's claws.

- Slide attacks could spawn a tornado, affected by melee mods. (Though, in my mind I reimagine these as much larger than current, at least at the base of the tornado. If this were to come to fruition, I believe that tornado width reflecting the range of the slide attack would be ideal.) This could just be passive, or, I thought it would tie into Turbulence. Perhaps, slide attacks, ground slams, and hitting the ground with 2 could expend Turbulence and create a growing Tornado centered around impact.  (Another side note, I see this being best if Duration and Ragdoll are dialed down in favor of inflicting heavy melee damage and instead of throwing enemies, more so just slowly floating and suspending them in a violent torrent of slash procs.)

Even if they just played a small role, visually accentuating her abilities as instruments and serving as a built in melee like Garuda, it would be a cool little tweak. 

 

Less thought out and maybe less intuitive, I thought Ember having something that mimics the idea of the secondary, Staticor would be cool. Fire gauntlets.  

 

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17 minutes ago, CTAutopsy said:

With the release of Garuda and her claws, and Baruuk and his fists, I started wondering where else the theme of innate and built in weapon types, and exalted weapons in general, could fit on existing warframes and possibly refresh old kits.  

 

Let me add... *old and or lackluster

My point is, there are some dots out there that could be connected. Maybe. That's what this is about. 

And it's fun to brainstorm. 

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What even is the appeal of exalted (melee) weapons?

Sure some of them are strong but they're all pretty much exactly the same thing: mash your melee button and gain one or two beneficial effects.

Excalibur gets a sword shaped Fluctus, Valkyr becomes mostly invulnerable and regains health, Titania gets butterflies, Wukong expands staff, and Baruuk gains even more situational CC.

But they all play almost exactly the same with mindless mashing of one button.

 

Signature weapons like Cobra & Crane on Baruuk at least have the benefit of not consuming energy or taking up an ability but even then it's just more of the same.

Personally I'm happy if we don't see another exalted melee until we have some verdict on whether or not melee 3.0 makes melee more engaging. But also retroactively adding more exalted/signature weapons to past frames would dilute the thing that makes these other frames unique.

Edited by trst
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tbh, I feel Exalted Weapons have been played out enough. we've got exalted Swords (Excalibur/Prime/Umbra, Dual Pistols (Mesa/Prime), Staves (Wukong), Bows (Ivara), two frames with exalted fists (Atlas and Baruuk) and two frames with exalted Claws (Garuda and Valkyr/Prime). we have enough.

it is starting to seem like an easy way of getting one of a warframe's powers out of the way to develop on the rest, when in reality DE should be taking as much time as they can to think each of a frame's abilities through. I'll still be mashing O with the rest of you whenever another frame with an exalted weapon comes out, but I definitely won't be pushing for more, and we DEFINITELY can't call it "original" anymore.

Edited by (PS4)robotwars7
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I agree that we need less Exalted Weapons. I spend a lot of time in the Fan Concept subforum and I’ve seen a ton of Exalted Weapons of varying kinds of different Warframe ideas. These range from rifles to Heavy Blades, and they’re all pretty bland after you look through them for a while. Most exalted weapons people come up with do at least have some interesting mechanics, but they could easily be adapted to work as an actual equippable weapon with a passive as opposed to an ability. This is why I would prefer more Warframes with ability-abilities. Keep the weapons with cool passives as weapons for players to use no matter the frame.

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3 hours ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

tbh, I feel Exalted Weapons have been played out enough. we've got exalted Swords (Excalibur/Prime/Umbra, Dual Pistols (Mesa/Prime), Staves (Wukong), Bows (Ivara), two frames with exalted fists (Atlas and Baruuk) and two frames with exalted Claws (Garuda and Valkyr/Prime). we have enough.

it is starting to seem like an easy way of getting one of a warframe's powers out of the way to develop on the rest, when in reality DE should be taking as much time as they can to think each of a frame's abilities through. I'll still be mashing O with the rest of you whenever another frame with an exalted weapon comes out, but I definitely won't be pushing for more, and we DEFINITELY can't call it "original" anymore.

Atlas's fists aren't an exalted weapon, as they can't be directly modded and are simply an attack (Volt's 1, Ember's 1, Frost's 1, etc.), and Garuda's claws aren't an exalted weapon either. They aren't linked to an ability, and can equip acolyte mods. Just pointing that out.

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Considering exalted melee weapons usually have their own animation set, I'm not sure it's lazy.

Anyway, if there is one past frame that needs a Garuda-style exalted, it's Rhino. He punches barehanded in the original trailer and it's about time he can do it in game too. 😛

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9 hours ago, trst said:

What even is the appeal of exalted (melee) weapons?

Sure some of them are strong but they're all pretty much exactly the same thing: mash your melee button and gain one or two beneficial effects.

And yet a ton of players keep asking for Exhalteds. Remember when the devs said Khora was gonna have an Exhalted Whip, but then she didn't and a huge number of people got really salty?

Edited by SenorClipClop
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31 minutes ago, SenorClipClop said:

And yet a ton of players keep asking for Exhalteds. Remember when the devs said Khora was gonna have an Exhalted Whip, but then she didn't and a huge number of people got really salty?

Well exactly, why do people want more of these? Khora's whip would have just been another melee weapon but you can change it's physical damage type. Personally that doesn't sound like very compelling design or gameplay.

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Am 23.12.2018 um 22:58 schrieb DatDarkOne:

Really?  I would like for you to expand on this please.  

I think it's lazy because it's just a glorified weapon and not even a "real" ability. There is basically no synergy between exalted weapons and the other ability a frame has. It just seems to me that exalted weapons are a type of "we ran out of good ideas for abilities" type thing.

There is nothing really that makes exalted weapons stand out compared to a "normal" weapon of the same type (exalted blade being the exception). What's the difference between a dex pixia and any other akimbo fully automatic secondary besides not having to pick up ammo (which you'll not run out with 99% of the comparable weapons either.

They're also inconsistent. I tried playing a melee-only sortie with Garuda because of her claws counting as melee. Turns out, they aren't considered melee for that purpose. So I had to put on a melee weapon which in turn made me lose my ability to use the claws (because reasons), even though the claws are melee weapons. I'm guessing the issue would be similar with any exalted melee weapon. How is that even thing? If you want me to use a frames abilities, ffs let me use them. It doesn't make sense.

Also in terms of DE not wanting to condone power-spam, they are the complete opposite. EB is probably the spammiest ability in the game. Not in terms of re-using the ability constantly, but what do you do with weapons? You pull the trigger/hack away by spamming buttons. I don't really see how that's different from spamming "real" abilities or just using your regular weapons in the first place (again, EB being somewhat of an exception just because of the long range attacks). And there is only so much variety when it comes to using weapons. It'd be different if they were all special or non-standard, but for the most part, they're the same as any other weapon of their respective type. That's unimaginative.

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20 minutes ago, Leland_Gaunt said:

I think it's lazy because it's just a glorified weapon and not even a "real" ability. There is basically no synergy between exalted weapons and the other ability a frame has. It just seems to me that exalted weapons are a type of "we ran out of good ideas for abilities" type thing.

baruuk has syngery within his own ult, and it compliments his cc heavy kit with some decent damage. titanias ult makes harder to hit and synergizes perfectly with two of her auras. excals ult synergizes with his 1 and 2 directly. stronger the melee, stronger dash and finishers. valkyr's exalted weaponry is a melee weapon, which synergizes with all of her kit already and makes even more of a melee monster. so i'd disagree on them not having synergy.

20 minutes ago, Leland_Gaunt said:

There is nothing really that makes exalted weapons stand out compared to a "normal" weapon of the same type (exalted blade being the exception). What's the difference between a dex pixia and any other akimbo fully automatic secondary besides not having to pick up ammo (which you'll not run out with 99% of the comparable weapons either.

dex pixias come with an ult that lets you freely fly and gives you ton of survivability. 

20 minutes ago, Leland_Gaunt said:

They're also inconsistent. I tried playing a melee-only sortie with Garuda because of her claws counting as melee. Turns out, they aren't considered melee for that purpose. So I had to put on a melee weapon which in turn made me lose my ability to use the claws (because reasons), even though the claws are melee weapons. I'm guessing the issue would be similar with any exalted melee weapon. How is that even thing? If you want me to use a frames abilities, ffs let me use them. It doesn't make sense.

garudas claws arent exalted weapons. they arent tied to an ability, and they dont do anything special other than probably being the best claw weapons in game rn. 

20 minutes ago, Leland_Gaunt said:

Also in terms of DE not wanting to condone power-spam, they are the complete opposite. EB is probably the spammiest ability in the game. Not in terms of re-using the ability constantly, but what do you do with weapons? You pull the trigger/hack away by spamming buttons. I don't really see how that's different from spamming "real" abilities or just using your regular weapons in the first place (again, EB being somewhat of an exception just because of the long range attacks). And there is only so much variety when it comes to using weapons. It'd be different if they were all special or non-standard, but for the most part, they're the same as any other weapon of their respective type. That's unimaginative.

de is not against power spam, they are against uninteractive and over-rewarding power spam, and no exalted weaponry we got in game is like that. 

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I think a part of this general 'Exalteds are lazy' trend is that... well, a lot of them are pretty same-y. Valkyr, Wukong and Baruuk are all melees without much special. Even the OG Excal's not all that different. 

There's a few Exalted's I'd like to see, but mostly in the ranged weapon department -actual exalted primaries, secondaries (Mesa's doesn't really count since they don't really use traditional weapons gameplay) and maybe an exalted gunblade kind of thing with special combos of its own. Maybe dual guns wielded in a gun kata kind of way? Basically, something that isn't just another melee weapon with a gimmick.

I'd also be pretty down with Garuda's passive thing being applied to frames that already have exalted (and possibly pseudo-exalted?) weapons. Getting access to a weaker version of the weapon, with the same stats but none of the 'ability' aspects. So Wukong gets his stick but it has a constant range instead of growing with crits, Mesa draws the Regulators but uses them as regular semi-auto dual pistols, Valkyr has hysteria but without the invincibility, and so on.

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Personally, exalted weapons are a waste of an ability slot, with Garuda being the exception. If DE can design/redesign all frames to use the same template as Garuda - that is, exalted weapons existing as bonus abilities (ability 5, if you will) instead of taking ability the 4th's slot - I'm all for it.  

Edited by Tellakey
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2 hours ago, Leland_Gaunt said:

I think it's lazy because it's just a glorified weapon and not even a "real" ability. There is basically no synergy between exalted weapons and the other ability a frame has. It just seems to me that exalted weapons are a type of "we ran out of good ideas for abilities" type thing.

There is nothing really that makes exalted weapons stand out compared to a "normal" weapon of the same type (exalted blade being the exception). What's the difference between a dex pixia and any other akimbo fully automatic secondary besides not having to pick up ammo (which you'll not run out with 99% of the comparable weapons either.

They're also inconsistent. I tried playing a melee-only sortie with Garuda because of her claws counting as melee. Turns out, they aren't considered melee for that purpose. So I had to put on a melee weapon which in turn made me lose my ability to use the claws (because reasons), even though the claws are melee weapons. I'm guessing the issue would be similar with any exalted melee weapon. How is that even thing? If you want me to use a frames abilities, ffs let me use them. It doesn't make sense.

Also in terms of DE not wanting to condone power-spam, they are the complete opposite. EB is probably the spammiest ability in the game. Not in terms of re-using the ability constantly, but what do you do with weapons? You pull the trigger/hack away by spamming buttons. I don't really see how that's different from spamming "real" abilities or just using your regular weapons in the first place (again, EB being somewhat of an exception just because of the long range attacks). And there is only so much variety when it comes to using weapons. It'd be different if they were all special or non-standard, but for the most part, they're the same as any other weapon of their respective type. That's unimaginative.

Your synopsis of DexPixia is wrong as noted by Zeclem.  You also forgot the Artemis Bow is classified as an exalted weapon that also has range, is unique, and spamable.  

There is also the case that some of the things you mentioned aren't exalted weapons.  Just saying.

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