You've started a bad trend DE.

[Darena_Bryant]

With the Fortuna/Orb Valis expansion, something new has been brought into existence that is going to seriously hamper the further improvement of your game, and it's a worrying trend with all the recent 'Profit over Quality' behaviors being shown by major studios like Bethesda and EA lately. This new process is 'extreme hampering of progress thru drop rates'. It might not even BE new, but... hear me out.

The first example is with Warframes like Garuda. In order to make her, you have to earn max rank with Solaris United, then buy all the needed blueprints. Where as this isn't necessarily bad, it introduces a problem where something new that appeals to and draws in players (the new warframe) is being put behind a wall (farming rep and rep based items). At no point should this ever be a thing, as it's not always the repetitive farming aspect of the game that draws in new players and keeps the old ones coming back as it is the new stuff that you guys produce to keep the game fun to mess around with.

Second is the rep requirements for Little Duck in Fortuna, which is based on Torids... another difficult to get resource item in Orb Valis. In order to move forward with her, you need a fair amount of these, and yet they have an extremely low drop rate. What's the point in this other than frustrating all but the most dedicated players? Giving them a low drop rate should be enough; instead you force people to grind extra hard for them, with low returns, and it feels pointless.

And now you release new Corpus weapons... and require players to farm the most obscure item in seemingly the entirety of the expansion, the Repeller Systems. From what I've read, it has a measly 1% chance of dropping, which is patently insane for something required in a weapon you can get a blueprint for, and that requires players to repeat a mission hundreds of times to even have a chance at getting one. Add to this the fact that you need these systems for OTHER things as well, and you're openly inviting people to spend platinum if they really want to get that weapon, or even the new pistol that was released along with it (though the part that one needs drops easier).

How this feels to me, and why it has me worried, is it feels as if, even with all the money you make off your 'free to play game', you're trying to think of creative ways to work pay to play concepts into the game. Can players go without those weapons and missions? Of course they can... but then they're *forced* to avoid content they may actually have joined the game to experience, or go through super excessive levels of grinding to reach. This is *not* fun to many people, and will discourage and drive them off, rather than keep them involved for the long haul.

I still don't have Garuda. I play with friends, and they're low level and just getting into the game; this is far more important than grinding rep. And it feels as if I've ben sorta cheated out of the chance to experience that frame while it was still something fresh and new. The same happened for the longest time with Gara, where poor drop rates made it seem impossible to get that last bit I needed to build her. Having been able to do so long after everyone else had moved on to Orb Valis, I feel more intensely that before what I'd been missing, since Gara is pretty useful and awesome. I feel like it's going to be just as long before I get to try out Garuda, and as for the Exergis? ...As a shotty user, it makes me endlessly sad to know I'm not going to get that weapon to play around with... because I refuse to but it with plat.

The more it feels like you're clamping down on new content so only the most dedicated and hardcore of your playerbase can access it, the more it feels like you're eventually going to cull everyone who's not part of that group from the ranks... and this is coming from someone who is drawing close to 2000 hours played. I love this game, I play it a lot. And I feel like I'm slowly being marginalized because 'a lot' isn't 'enough' anymore.

[AndouRaiton]

6 minutes ago, Darena_Bryant said:

Warframes like Garuda. In order to make her, you have to earn max rank with Solaris United, then buy all the needed blueprints.

1. she requires the second last rank (Cove) not last rank (Old mate)

2. you don't buy blueprints you get them through bounties.

7 minutes ago, Darena_Bryant said:

Giving them a low drop rate should be enough; instead you force people to grind extra hard for them, with low returns, and it feels pointless.

Agreed.

 

[Yakhul]

You wanna skip the farm, you pay.

Dont wanna pay? Farm.

This has been always the case with Warframe since i can remember, there is nothing new. In fact, Garuda is free, and it doesnt really take that long to reach max rep with Solaris.

In my very unpopular opinion, i do not believe the curve of progression should be to head straight to fortuna as a new player, sure its appealing, but first you gotta learn the game and unlock the solar chart at least. If you do not like Garuda being locked behind the max rep of solaris, wait till you see baruuk.

I do not think this should be seen as a bad thing. In fact, it gives you a goal. If you want garuda, you will do whatever it takes to get it, for free ofc, unless you are impatient and pay plat for a warframe. Plus, as a new player, you only have like, 3 warframe slots? definitely Garuda isnt gonna be the first frame you will go for as a MR1 right?

[Yakhul]

Just now, -Sentient- said:

But just compare Limbo,Mirage,or even Umbra which are very good frames that you get at quests,every single part of them is given in quests.

the others are by killing Bosses,doing spy missions without failing Etc

 

Heard of Nidus and how painful he is to farm?

[Wr41tth]

Locking new content behind boring and tedious rep grind IS just plain annoying. At least make an interesting backstory and put the frame behind a quest, make the game fun - and I’m not saying this because I ‘don’t wanna pay’, I buy frames anyway ... without spending money for plat. But Fortuna is just not fun for me personally because everything is locked behind rep and there is no fun way to earn that. 

[Fishyflakes]

29 minutes ago, Darena_Bryant said:

...you're trying to think of creative ways to work pay to play concepts into the game.

The game has always been like this, sorry to break it to you.

I won't even bother quoting more bits and pieces of the post.

The rest of it I can say "you're too impatient, you aren't grinding efficiently enough, and it's all on you."

[Lysserd]

Hey don't worry man it's still in beta.

btw if you ever see someone say that seriously then you're allowed to shoot them

[Fishyflakes]

Just now, -Sentient- said:

Yes and no

We rather get quests to do,rather than 24 hour wait rep limit.

I'd rather not wait 6 months for an unsatisfactory story quest like Umbra, personally.

They can't even finish the Hydroid Prime trailer.
Even if they did, it wouldn't add much to the game.

I prefer the Lore fragments system which aren't traditional quests but still add alot of lore to characters and Warframes like Khora.

[dated]

The process is always been like this - just see it like more layers of within layers of layers of grinding....

Or like goal within goal within goal within goal and looook how well you have accomplished so many goals... it's just goal(s) or catching moar duck with one stone...

---

Don't mind me - I'm typically just being lazy to pay plats and farm

[Hixlysss]

4 minutes ago, TheBestNapkin said:

You wanna skip the farm, you pay.

Dont wanna pay? Farm.

This has been always the case with Warframe since i can remember, there is nothing new. In fact, Garuda is free, and it doesnt really take that long to reach max rep with Solaris.

In my very unpopular opinion, i do not believe the curve of progression should be to head straight to fortuna as a new player, sure its appealing, but first you gotta learn the game and unlock the solar chart at least. If you do not like Garuda being locked behind the max rep of solaris, wait till you see baruuk.

I do not think this should be seen as a bad thing. In fact, it gives you a goal. If you want garuda, you will do whatever it takes to get it, for free ofc, unless you are impatient and pay plat for a warframe. Plus, as a new player, you only have like, 3 warframe slots? definitely Garuda isnt gonna be the first frame you will go for as a MR1 right?

The problem is the farm has been getting worse for frames that are...mediocre. I straight up bought baruuk because the grind was so annoying. And it's not just Baruuk, but the other new weapons as well, with the Profit Taker fight being the only source of these new resources given as a reward for completing that stage, it's a slog and a half to get the required parts you need, i've done it for a few days now, gotten some mods, gyros, but none of the other two things...repeller and something. Sure, RNG is RNG, but at least make it a drop from the orb mothers or something rather than a one time roll of the dice at the end of the bounty...

 

2 minutes ago, -Sentient- said:

Yeah,but you dont have to wait 24 hours til new day comes cuz of the daily cap

That aside though, the daily limit for syndicates is a bit...crazy, more so for new players. Imagine, just a MR 10 can only get 11k standing in a 24 hour period. 11k. That's days to a whole week of waiting just to progress to the next tier, and then you have to start over from ground 0 again. So let's go day 1 with a MR10, a fair MR, would have access to fortuna no doubt. Day 1 of them exploring they can get to outworlder and get almost 1/4th of the way to next rank...cool. Day 2, they close the gap just a little bit more, 11k added ontop of the 6k left after Day 1 for a total of 17k, but still not quite there. Day 3, already Day 3 and they are focusing on just getting to the next rank, and it takes 3 whole days just get to rank 2 out of 5...And that's if they are ignoring literally everything else about Fortuna and focusing on just maxing out the daily standing.

So anyway, Day 3 and they are at rank 2 with what...5k left over? And the cap for rank 2 is 44k...that is a solid 4 days just to get to rank 3 with 1k left over. 70k now for rank 4, and that's a whole week, one full week to get that next step up and they are half way up this totem pole. And then once they get there....99k. Ten days. So at this point we are looking at 24 days to get to Old Mate, and that's literally if they ignore everything else there, don't spend any points. That's almost a month of dedicated farming. Not passive farming but dedicated singular focus on just getting to the next rank, which you kind of need to go up in these ranks in order to get the blueprints for the items needed to craft Garuda, so you have to do this or...shell out money to just buy the frame.

So let's look at another frame locked in a similar situation as Garuda, Gara. Gara's resources are either very low rank to get(Devar, Pyrotic Alloy, Coprite alloy) or just drop in the world naturally(Grokdrul, Iradite). Garuda to make requires you at least have Cove to get the Marquise Thyst BP from Smoke finger. On top of the honestly annoying grind to get the toroids. She has a vastly steeper time sink in just getting to the point where you can *build* her, because by the time you got to that point you're probably sitting on all her parts already. Honestly, if you're choking on parts for a warframe before you're even able to build the thing, that's...a bad progression system IMO.

And Baruuk is honestly Garuda but worse because not only do you have to grind up Solaris United standing to at least Cove, but you need to grind up Vox standing as well(Which only progresses via turning in Toroids which...are annoying to get to drop, on top of said Toroids being needed to build him AND Garuda...)Suffice to say, I don't like this trend DE has shown with the latest open world, sure it's nicer and honestly feels more...alive, but the sheer grind is...just awful. I feel horrible for anyone under MR 20 trying to grind up through the syndicate ranks.

At least the base syndicates also allow you to do their missions for additional standing on top of the daily cap limit. As a whole I think the syndicate daily cap system needs a hard looking at, considering how long it takes to get to the higher MR levels(With most people not bothering to go past MR16 anyway because that's where MR Cap kinda...stops.), the daily cap could use a serious buff for newer players, without so much of one for older folks.

 

2 minutes ago, Fishyflakes said:

The game has always been like this, sorry to break it to you.

I won't even bother quoting more bits and pieces of the post.

The rest of it I can say "you're too impatient, you aren't grinding efficiently enough, and it's all on you."

I was just about to add a bit about "For those who say you need to grind more!" See above, the grind for Gara vs Garuda is exponentially greater by a massive degree, The highest rank you need to be with the Ostrons is Outworlder(Rank 1, 3 days for a MR10 to get plus 1 day to get the BPs) with Garuda you need Cove(Rank 4, 24 days for a MR10 to get and another 3 days to get all the BP's needed) So 4 days vs...basically a month. That's just getting the BP's together to make the materials, not to mention actual material gathering which may or may not be great. Seriously, this whole "Grind more" mentality is fine for the early stuff, a lot of that grind is not that bad. This though? Dude come on its gotten bad.

Now on to solutions! Removing the cap is...not a good idea, there has to be some progression stopper, which is in part what the daily limit does, simply put there should be more...hmm...diminishing returns on how much your limit goes up upon ranking up. Currently your Daily Cap is your 1000(MR + 1), basic maths yeah? Well it's time things got a lil more complicated, because it's kinda needed, so say the calculation went something like (IF MR =< 10) DailyCap = 1000(MR+5) OR (IF MR = 11) DailyCap = 1000(MR+4) and steadily decreasing down to (IF MR = 27) DailyCap = 1000(MR+1) or something along those lines...
Alternatively, allowing players to turn in the Debt Token's to surpass the daily cap is arguably a far far simpler idea...Still has the 'grindy' nature to the game, still has a time lock with some RNG nature to it as you get the Debt token's from Ticker or bounties, Ticker having more of a time gate to her stock where bounties are just RNG on if you get em or not. Really though, in general being able to turn in tokens to go beyond the daily cap should be how the entire system functions, but it's not sadly. My money is on the token system as the other one is...complex. Too many moving parts with that.

[Fishyflakes]

1 hour ago, Hixlysss said:

I was just about to add a bit about "For those who say you need to grind more!" See above, the grind for Gara vs Garuda is exponentially greater by a massive degree, The highest rank you need to be with the Ostrons is Outworlder(Rank 1, 3 days for a MR10 to get plus 1 day to get the BPs) with Garuda you need Cove(Rank 4, 24 days for a MR10 to get and another 3 days to get all the BP's needed) So 4 days vs...basically a month. That's just getting the BP's together to make the materials, not to mention actual material gathering which may or may not be great. Seriously, this whole "Grind more" mentality is fine for the early stuff, a lot of that grind is not that bad. This though? Dude come on its gotten bad.

MR 10's have other content they should be doing in Warframe other than binging Fortuna and dying constantly in T5 bounties.
This is only particular of F2P only players, as they too can simply buy or trade plat to skip any grind (including this one) they wanted.

1 hour ago, Hixlysss said:

Now on to solutions! Removing the cap is...not a good idea, there has to be some progression stopper, which is in part what the daily limit does, simply put there should be more...hmm...diminishing returns on how much your limit goes up upon ranking up. Currently your Daily Cap is your 1000(MR + 1), basic maths yeah? Well it's time things got a lil more complicated, because it's kinda needed, so say the calculation went something like (IF MR =< 10) DailyCap = 1000(MR+5) OR (IF MR = 11) DailyCap = 1000(MR+4) and steadily decreasing down to (IF MR = 27) DailyCap = 1000(MR+1) or something along those lines...

Alternatively, allowing players to turn in the Debt Token's to surpass the daily cap is arguably a far far simpler idea...Still has the 'grindy' nature to the game, still has a time lock with some RNG nature to it as you get the Debt token's from Ticker or bounties, Ticker having more of a time gate to her stock where bounties are just RNG on if you get em or not. Really though, in general being able to turn in tokens to go beyond the daily cap should be how the entire system functions, but it's not sadly. My money is on the token system as the other one is...complex. Too many moving parts with that.

Your alternate solutions are just going to be balance hell when people find ways to abuse them or become the same problem when people complain that they don't "give enough standing".

[(PSN)DARK_WIZARD999]

The grind doesn't bother me nearly as much as the decision to eliminate lore and depth to what you do in the game. The story hasn't been expanded at all. The sacrifice showcased a little, but I wanted more, by a long shot. The last couple of primed frames received no prime trailers, no lore, they were just dropped off like another prime access release. No confetti. No explanation. Who was Mesa umbra as a Dax, why was Mesa made, what were the corpus hoping to do with their reverse engineered version, why was she infected, etc. Same for all frames, what was Ballas thinking? I'd like a Vetruvian each at least. So much Orokin history, rise of the Grineer, Orokin Senate survivors, acolytes, ect. So much but Warframe is currently reduced to skins and new player bait. Some people may not care but I've been following Warframe since Dark Sector. I watched it become what it is today. So much info that some of the team can get together and at least write into more Kuria or Vetruvians. Anyway just wanted to vent a bit. I like stories more than the games. 

[Sibernetika]

If I could buy the repeller systems I would have by now seriously I would like to advance my standing with little duck and bring different Arch wing weapons to missions but nooo 3 hours of farming for them and getting nothing is what I have to be content with at the moment... Seriously Mesa prime was easier to farm

[DreisterDino]

vor 5 Stunden schrieb TheBestNapkin:

You wanna skip the farm, you pay.

Dont wanna pay? Farm.

[...]

I do not think this should be seen as a bad thing. In fact, it gives you a goal. If you want garuda, you will do whatever it takes to get it, for free ofc, unless you are impatient and pay plat for a warframe. Plus, as a new player, you only have like, 3 warframe slots? definitely Garuda isnt gonna be the first frame you will go for as a MR1 right?

 

vor 5 Stunden schrieb Fishyflakes:

The game has always been like this, sorry to break it to you.

I won't even bother quoting more bits and pieces of the post.

The rest of it I can say "you're too impatient, you aren't grinding efficiently enough, and it's all on you."

 

First, i wanna say that in general i think its totally fine to put Baruuk/Garuda or even weapons behind a grindwall that involves standing+ressources.

And i agree that in a game where players usually get everything really fast, it can provide some "longterm"-goals for them.

 

But, this is only ok if the gameplay you have to do is able to provide at least some fun.

If wanna ask everyone who defends this: Do you have any fun doing Phase 2 over and over again?

start mission - rush to the place where you have to kill 3 guys - rush to extract - repeat.

If its done this way i gotta agree with OP that it is a bad trend and doesnt feel right, even in a F2P game.

 

To the grinding efficiently part, ill just put a little discussion in a spoiler here which basically says everything.

In short - people dont like the grind - they do it anyway - they wanna get through with it as fast as possible without having fun so they never have to do it again.

Does that sound like good gamedesign? Again, i dont care if i have to invest 50 hours before i can get baruuk for example, if i can have some fun doing it.

 

Spoiler

Skaleek: Hi, I've been grinding profit taker mission 2 now almost 150 runs because its impossible to rank up in vox until i get 10x of these atomo systems. Having a player go through the tedious painful process of farming these cant be your goal. Once i get my item im gonna walk away from warframe saying to myself, "wow this made me really angry, and i really didnt have fun". Thanks again DE, not the first time, probably not the last either.

 

Me: i was a bit let down when i saw that this update basically consists of 3 boring bounties + the orb fight.

and like always, you have to do these 3 boring bounties over and over and over again to grind for some new ressources that seem to be introduced only to make you play it although its not fun at all (like op says himself). And then people come to the forum and post stuff like "you wanted content? now you have content. Why are you still not happy?"

Maybe because 3 boring bounties you have to do grind like crazy to get some new exclusive materials is not the best way of adding content? [...]

 

Skaleek: When you've been playing warframe as long as I have, you learn to maximize your time on warframe and grind efficiently. Each run takes me about 2m30s (level transitions and waiting for objective changes is the slowest part). It still, however, took me many, many hours.

 

Me: Anyway, i dont even want to learn to maximize my time and grind efficiently and have the least fun i can possibly have doing that 😛

I probably end up ignoring the new frame/weapons/arcanes and so on for a long time, but thats still better than feeling like:

Am 20.12.2018 um 03:17 schrieb Skaleek:

"wow this made me really angry, and i really didnt have fun"

 

Skaleek: If you dont do what I did you dont rank up vox solaris. Bottom line is i've done everything else in warframe, this is my only avenue of progression besides the newly released Mesa prime. When your solution is "just dont do it", it means there's a problem.

 

Me: Right, and i am fine with that. Many of my clanmates do the same right now but i refuse to play something i really dont like and what feels like some sort of "occupational therapy" rather than playing a game just for the sake of getting more items i can use afterwards to grind other stuff efficiently again without having fun.

 Really tells alot about the game and the community if people go through this in a way you described just to have something to do...

 

Skaleek:  A fair point. I could easily just walk away from Warframe. I do feel a sense of loyalty and tolerance to abuse though, as I've invested so much into Warframe i am more prone to accept hard times and bad grinds once in a while. There have been times where i've done a grind and put warframe down for a few weeks or even a month out of pure burn out. The main point of this thread is that DE understands the player experience they are cultivating.

They may be under the impression that having a player run a mission 200 times is good for player longevity because it increases the duration they play on the game, but i would argue the opposite. I think experiences like this are incredibly bad for player retention. If this was a game i was trying out for the first time and this was my experience, i would uninstall and never look back.

 

 

 

[(PSN)teacup775]

19 hours ago, Darena_Bryant said:

The more it feels like you're clamping down on new content so only the most dedicated and hardcore of your playerbase can access it, the more it feels like you're eventually going to cull everyone who's not part of that group from the ranks... and this is coming from someone who is drawing close to 2000 hours played. I love this game, I play it a lot. And I feel like I'm slowly being marginalized because 'a lot' isn't 'enough' anymore.

Even for dedicated players, garuda’s grind is a turn off. I’d rather have had a story line, similar in pacing as Sacrifice, maybe with the frame buildable halfway, and a continuation of the quest line with the frame itself.

umbra’s build was extremely easy, but the idea of playing content for a particular frame would be a nice change up. it’d be nice to have an option of being able to play anywhere and in some way gain parts..the simplest form of that is oberon

[(XBOX)LostSpark13]

I grind too but I actually have fun doing it.

If you burn out repeating something, don't grind and do a little bit of everything each time you play. That way you progress slowly in more than one objective and you don't make yourself sick of an activity by trying to beat speed records in acquiring the last weapon/frame.

Slow and steady arrive at the destination too. Bonus: the hype vanguard has already pined down the eventual bugs for you.

[Elementalos]

I don't think it's necessarily a trend so much as the way Warframe is, in fact they've been improving in some ways, the way Fortuna does mining and fishing is a huge step up from how PoE gated the content... and we don't have consumable archwing launcher BS anymore either. 

That said, I think DE could definitely do more and that putting cool content at the end of time-gated rep trees is not particularly fun.

On 2018-12-23 at 8:03 PM, Fishyflakes said:

The rest of it I can say "you're too impatient, you aren't grinding efficiently enough, and it's all on you."

The fact that we're talking about the most efficient ways to play a video game kind of highlights the OP's point though.

[frostyhobo]

I disagree, "locking" the orb fights behind learning the place you are going to fight boses and mechanics is not bad b/c this is going to keep the players out of endgame content that aren't ready for endgame, for example go do a public eidolon fight that you qeue up with from the bounties, you will quickly see that most players either have no clue what they are doing or don't have any sort of gear that is usefull for that acitivty they have joined. 

For Baruuk and Garuda; look at the game from a new players perspective, there are 30+ frames in the game so having a few frames behind a grind wall really isn't the end of the world. View the game as this, the star chart is the beginer player areas, so killing normal bosses and farming resources, then the mid game is collecting primes and running sorties and such, while the endgame is doing open world and soon^(tm) railjack is endgame. So there are going to be inevitably frames that are unlocked in the endgame. Expect there to be exclusive things unlocked in railjack and future endgame things simply so that the vets have new stuff to go for. 

With this development the new players will always have more gear to collect/level/etc. while vets only have new gear after a content update is added, so therefore adding new things to be only accessible to vets is actually a good decision so that new players are detered to do the actual content that is designed for them instead of clogging the qeues with players that don't know what is going on.

[Ekemeister]

@ OP. If you want efficient, fortuna rep yet find yourself spamming bounties, you're wrong. Get a stealth frame, a sunpoint miner, and go mining. 

If you want efficient, cetus rep yet find yourself spamming bounties, you're wrong. Fish for Cuthol and then donate for daily progress cap in 30 minutes or less. 

[Darena_Bryant]

Most of what I've seen here seems to boil down to a few points:

People think that my lack of getting where I want to be is all my fault, and I'm just being inefficient, lazy or stupid, or some combination of the three.

People think this situation is 'just how the game is' and 'this is fine' (insert the meme of your choice). The game is like this, has always been like this, and there's no point in complaining about it; It's best to just accept it and move on.

People agreeing with me that it's an issue, and offering various reasons they think it's not good or ideas as to how it could be fixed.

For the first group: of course it's my fault. I'm not fitting into the 'flow' of the game perfectly, and it's making me feel something needs to be changed. I'm not as hardcore as some other players are either. I don't enjoy speedrunning, preferring to farm a level and take in the ambiance. I don't like playing 'nuke' characters on Hydron or Helene, standing in the middle and pressing a few buttons once in a while. I'm not very 'efficient' at playing the game because I'm not really WANTING to play efficiently. I'm one of those somewhat confused people who play games for fun, not computational perfection in my actions. I appreciate what you're all trying to say but it's missing my point a bit. It's not that I don't want to put in the time to get the ranks and eventually build a frame. I didn't get Gara completed until well after Fortuna was released, not because it was hard or my drop rates were bad or I wasn't farming enough, but because I was off doing things I enjoyed in the game instead of focus farming.

My problem is the leap in the amount and complexity of farming between Cetus and Fortuna. A few people in the thread have broken it down, so I won't go into it again. But I feel as if it's a bit too extreme for content like warframes. An example of something I think they could have done for Garuda is Inaros' quest. That required some moderately tough fights, some farming with a nice story intertwined with it, and you were rewarded in the end. There's challenge, some 'progressional barriers' (not every new player is going to be farming Juggernauts right off, for example) and a good chunk of lore and story to develop the frame you're working towards. If they had made it so you had to reach Cove ranking in Fortuna to hear the story of the bloody mistress of the ice plains, then opened a special side mission in the Codex, I would have no complaints... because that would have been awesome, and a story in and of itself.

For the second group: Yes, warframe has always been about the grind. I've accepted it and I think I've adopted a pretty farm-y mindset... it's one of the reasons that stages everyone else rushes through in 1 minute I'll spend a while clearing chests and containers for the loot inside 'just in case I need it for something'. I enjoy fishing in Orb Valis; I've even found a place where the fish spawn and can't swim anywhere so they're easy to catch. Mining is fine too, and I buy debts from Ticker regularly since you can sell them for rep as well. *The grind itself is not the problem.* My issue is it's being ramped up, or feels like it. I am looking forward already to the next open world, and have some interesting images of it in my head at least. I'd be pretty unhappy if the grind increased between that and Fortuna on the same scale as it has between Fortuna and Cetus.

Thanks to those who could at least see what I was saying. I wasn't sure anyone else agreed with me, but I see i'm not alone in my opinion.

And as a final thing. For those who are saying 'grind or buy plat'... that's pretty harsh of you, I think. Some people don't have the money to buy plat; it's part of why people come to play this free game in the first place (despite what some people will tell you). Others aren't skilled at trading or farming primes and trading them off, or just have bad luck or find the entire process tedious and difficult. I don't think there should only be three options for players: do something difficult and boring, or do something *else* you find tedious and boring... or quit playing. It's unfair and kind of weird to tell someone, 'If you don't like struggling to play, and can't spend money, then you shouldn't be playing this free game, since that's pretty much all it's about.' I have a lot of fun playing warframe; the more people who do, the better the game becomes. I don't think it should become easy. Getting 'stuck in' to the game is part of the charm of playing it, I think. But it shouldn't feel like a slog, or like you're being held back from progressing (t least not too much), and I'd hope DE definitely doesn't want it to start feeling like a money pit type of game where players toss money in the hole and move along.

[Xenophil]

4k hours player here.
I'd double all blueprint costs and resources needed to craft stuff.

Edited January 16, 2019 by Xenophil

[(PSN)Black_Adder_]

I bet OP haven't even cleared all starchart missions yet, otherwise he wouldn't have so much problems getting Garuda. What I mean is that at the point when they have done all starchart missions most people have learned how to do things including grinding much more efficiently.

If you are low levelled player that still struggle on starchart missions then it's logical that you will also struggle at Orb Vallis. If you are literally lazy or dumb or both then you have just 3 choices:

1) long grind

2) spending real money

3) not playing free to play games as they are all built around grinding versus spending money

[Eterud]

I think that the garuda/revenant/gara farms are fairly easy.

The vox solaris standing/weapons is an absurd grind for something that isn't stronger or more useful than any of the other warframes / weapons that are already in the game.