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Trinity - Why The New Energy Vampire Doesn't Fit Into The Game!


Walkampf
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First i'd like to start of with something positive, the changes on Trinties other skills were really interesting. Personally i like those a lot, especially the changes on Link.

 

So, i ran some tests on Trinity, focusing on Energy Vampire (EV), since the changes done to this skill didn't seem to add up and i found two, in my opinion, severe problems with this new skill.

Additionally, i tried to understand why those changes were implemented in this way, while i wrote down the problems.

And last but not least, i thought about ideas to fix the skill.

 

The Problems:

- The first problem is, when the targeted enemy dies, every pulse left is lost.

This reduces the effect of the skill more often than not by 50%-75%.

If you are grouped up with a trigger happy bunch, or you all have a bunch of Sentinels with potatoed weapons, or your group has massive AoE-clearing potential, the skill becomes next to useless.

Since communication is unfortunatly not the strength of the Warframe community, it next to impossible to make them understand how this mechanic works, if they are not familiar with Trinity themself.

Before the Trinty-player was able to controll who whould get energy by using EV on an enemy which was likely to be targeted by a certain player in the next few seconds.

 

Fazit:

The mechanic is now extremely counterintuitive.

I suddenly wants people NOT to shoot at the bright glowing enemy.

This get's even more counterintuitive, when you consider that glowing enemies are usually begging to be fired on, like with Banshees Sonar, Novas Molecular Prime or Trinities very own Well of Life.

 

Sure, you can use Woll of Live to extend the enemies Live, but now you have to use both skills.

EV is now not a single Skill anymore, it's dependent on WoL.

In my opinion this dependence is similar to Rhinos Ground Slam and Stomp, before they were combined into a single Skill.

 

Sidenote:

Removing the necessety to attack the target makes EV very abusable.

Since you don't have to leave Stealth, when using Shade as your Sentinel, since Skills don't disrupt stealth mode, you can leach up to 100% energy capacity without the risk of being fired at.

 

 

- The second Problem is extending the duration of skills now hurts EV immensly.

I think EV is now the only skill, which can actively made less effective, by mods.

It get's even more crazy when you consider that every other skill of Trinity benefits greatly and thus encourages extending duration.

 

I'm using maxed Continuity, maxed Constitution and the Aura Hemlet.

And right now there are roughly four (4!) seconds between two pulses.

So, usually only the first pulse, which is instantanious on using the skill, get's activated, thus you loose 75% auf the Skills effect.

 

The Reasons:

So, why whould anybody think that those chages whould be a good idea?

The first thing that comes to mind is the try to give Trinity a more active ability.

Before she didn't have any ability which whould effect an enemy directly.

A good thought.

Of course, this begs for the question, did Trinity-players actually desire such skills?

If you didn't like her style, you had enough other Warframes to choose from.

 

Sidenote:

Stunning bosses is an incredibly bad idea for several reasons.

1. Players of other Frames will it call OP, and rightfully so.

2. What's the point in having a Bossfight, if the boss doesn't do anything?

This skill defeats the purpose of having Bossfights in the first place.

You could just as well playce a container with several thousand HP in the boss location, which then gives you loot after cracking it open.

 

Another reason that might be behind the changes could be a bottleneck, to prevent a single Trinity from making Energy Siphon and Energy Orbs absolutly unnecessary.

The old EV was able to recover massive amouts of energy in just a few seconds, if the Trinity player was smart enough to select the right targets.

 

Solutions:

-The first idea whould be the most simple. Change the way ernergy is gained back to how it was before the patch. That way, even if the stunned enemy is killed early, at least sombebody got back any energy.

 

-The second idea is, that the pulses go on, even if the enemy dies.

The problems with this solution are, for one, it whouldn't solve the problem that you get punished for using extended duartion. And it whould make the gameplay much slower since you often will have to wait at the corpse to get your energy.

 

-Idea number three, make the intervals between the pulses a fixed value.

With this is whould behave like other skills with an effect over time, like DoTs.

Extending it's duration whould thus result in additional pulses if the target is left alive.

Also, it reduces the chance of the target being killed before even the second pulse was able to happen.

 

-The fourth idea is actually based on something, which was said be Steve during a livestream, if i remeber right..

The topic was the new Aura system and the reason why he decided to reverse the mechanic of the Aura-Mods not using Mod-points up, but instead granting additional points.

The same idea could be used here.

Extended duration effect could REDUCE the time between pulses.

This whould greatly reduce the likelyhood of enemies dying before at least a bit of energy was restored.

Edited by Walkampf
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+1 for Idea #4 and #2 combined but with a small change on the second idea: instead of just more pulses from a dead body, have energy vampire transferred to another enemy close by.

Edit: I'd appreciate these changes on WoL aswell.

Edited by Teknique0
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I don't see why EV isnt a targeted location that gives back energy, in pulses, dependent on how many enemies are in the aoe.  It would still satisfy the name because it would only grant energy if it was sapped from enemies within range.  I honestly think that Life well should also be a targeted pulsating health thingy.  The idea that things other than bosses stick around long enough to actually provide benefit from these two skills is silly.  Even high-level heavy units don't stick around for more than a few seconds.

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I do like these ideas, but I also like a lot of the ideas in the Trinity thread.  (To take a moment to promote my own : Energy Vampire could jump targets when the first one dies, and possibly increase in effect/duration/etc for each kill.)

 

I think the idea of power duration having a reverse effect on EV is very intriguing.  It synergizes exceptionally well with the current Trinity direction.

Edited by noneuklid
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The part(s) people are missing with Energy Vampire:

 

The energy pulse is group wide - 100 Energy total per tick

 

Well of Life can be used in conjunction - Full Energy everytime (Unless team is focus firing)

 

If your team is burning targets too fast, they obviously don't need as much energy

 

With Streamline, 2 ticks gives more energy than it costs to cast it (The ability can be spammed)

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The part(s) people are missing with Energy Vampire:

 

The energy pulse is group wide - 100 Energy total per tick

 

Well of Life can be used in conjunction - Full Energy everytime (Unless team is focus firing)

 

If your team is burning targets too fast, they obviously don't need as much energy

 

With Streamline, 2 ticks gives more energy than it costs to cast it (The ability can be spammed)

 

#1 EV will not work when Ancients are there to steal your energy.

#2 Trinity getting mobbed to get EV to work means she is dead because she has to wait for Blessing(100 Energy).

#3 If the team burns targets too fast it doesn't mean they don't need HP.

-> How the heck is Trinity suppose to support the team when she has 50 energy which she used and never gained back?

 

Trinity has became from a high tier to a low tier warframe.

The old energy vampire was much better as the Original post says.

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The part(s) people are missing with Energy Vampire:

 

The energy pulse is group wide - 100 Energy total per tick

 

 

What you are describing here is the ideal case.

But it is quite unlikely to to occur.

 

The first reason is the positioning.

If any teammember is out of range of the pulse, he doesn't get anything.

 

The second reason is, any teammember who has already full energy won't get anything.

 

Those are to thing you, as Trinity, cannot control.

 

With the old EV however you had enough control to counter these two problems by thinking about which enemy you mark, namely one that is likely to be attacked by a teammate who used a skill moments ago.

Sure, you had to keep a close eye what your teammates were doing, but you had most of the control.

With the new skil you have barely any left.

Edited by Walkampf
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#1 EV will not work when Ancients are there to steal your energy.

#2 Trinity getting mobbed to get EV to work means she is dead because she has to wait for Blessing(100 Energy).

#3 If the team burns targets too fast it doesn't mean they don't need HP.

-> How the heck is Trinity suppose to support the team when she has 50 energy which she used and never gained back?

 

Trinity has became from a high tier to a low tier warframe.

The old energy vampire was much better as the Original post says.

Slow down.

 

#1 That's what Link is for

#2 Why are you "getting mobbed"? Energy Vampire has a very long range

#3 That's what Blessing and Well of Life is for

 

-> Either find a target not being shot at, or just don't cast anything other than Bless

 

Blue Orbs and Energy Siphon still exist, you know.

 

 

What you are describing here is the ideal case.

But it is quite unlikely to to occur.

 

The first reason is the positioning.

If any teammember is out of range of the pulse, he doesn't get anything.

 

The second reason is, any teammember who has already full energy won't get anything.

 

Those are to thing you, as Trinity, cannot control.

 

With the old EV however you had enough control to counter these two problems by thinking about which enemy you mark, namely one that is likely to be attacked by a teammate who used a skill moments ago.

Sure, you had to keep a close eye what your teammates were doing, but you had most of the control.

With the new skil you have barely any left.

 

Why do we need to control those things? If the team needs energy, they'll get energy.

 

If they don't need energy, they'll blow everything up.

 

You never *need* to cast an ability, especially energy vampire.

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Blue Orbs and Energy Siphon still exist, you know.

 

 

 

Why do we need to control those things? If the team needs energy, they'll get energy.

 

If they don't need energy, they'll blow everything up.

 

You never *need* to cast an ability, especially energy vampire.

 

You are right, there are enough other means to get energy.

The same goes for health.

The same goes for damage.

So why not just remove every single Skill from the game and only use Weapons and pickups, since, technically, you do not need any of the skills, since the game has to be designed in a way, so every possible conbination of warframes is able to successfully finish a mission.

The skills, as a matter of fact are nothing but a way to break up the monotony of the gunplay and in a way that they make sense.

 

 

The control is neccesary, since using a skill then rewards the player with a feeling of success when he sees that the skill worked out how he intended it.

 

 

On the other hand, if you use a skill, which then results in nothing, you just feel bad.

This is the same no matter if the skill you used was Baubans Vortex, which you missed the enemy with,

or if you used EV and nobody cared for it.

The only difference is, in the case of vortex, it's your very own vault for not making it work.

In EVs case, this can even occur if you did everything right.

Edited by Walkampf
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  • 2 weeks later...

One idea someone else posted in the main feedback thread was that if the EV target is killed before all pulses are out, then you get a reduced amount of energy in a single burst. So if you've got 25 energy per pulst, and the enemy dies after the first pulse, instead of the last three pulses being wasted it releases a pulse of, say, 50 energy on death (instead of the 75 you'd have gotten if it had had lasted the full time).

 

I agree that it's dumb that EV is hurt by duration mods. It'd be better if it got more pulses with duration mods, at the very least.

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SOOOOOO,

the Trinity Profile video is now up on youtube.

 

To be honest. i was waiting for this one.

I hoped that here they whould adress the issue at hand, maybe with a line that whould clarify that you basically have to choose between Well of Life and Energy Vampire or Link and Blessing...

 

And the waiting payed of.

DE Fell into their own trap.

 

In the Mod section of the video Duration-Mods are described as "strengthening ALL of trinities abilities".

As i stated in the opening, this is not the case for 50% of her abilities.

 

Well of Life as well as Energy Vampire, both get weaker with the use of Duration-Mods.

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