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(PS4)Vagnar

Can Khora get her "exalted" whip via Garuda's approach?

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I think it'd be a great compromise from her original setup.

 

You could also have the damage distributions and crit/status weight differently depending on her Venari stance too, which could add a bit more incentive to mix it up more instead of just locking into whatever stance you prefer.

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7 hours ago, (PS4)Vagnar said:

You could also have the damage distributions and crit/status weight differently depending on her Venari stance too, which could add a bit more incentive to mix it up more instead of just locking into whatever stance you prefer.

You essentially want to add an exalted weapon to Khora's 4 abilities. If you are actually referring to Garuda, this whip would have no interactions with abilities and would just be a plain weapon for when Khora had no other melee weapons equipped.

This is not a compromise.

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1 hour ago, peterc3 said:

You essentially want to add an exalted weapon to Khora's 4 abilities. If you are actually referring to Garuda, this whip would have no interactions with abilities and would just be a plain weapon for when Khora had no other melee weapons equipped.

This is not a compromise.

That was a follow up to the initial request, not the actual request. I just want the whip, but if they'd be willing to get more creative with it I'd totally be down for that.

 

2 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

No.

Garudas claws are her own unique feature. Not every frame suddenly needs whatever the newest frame does.

The only frame in question here is Khora, as her original concept had an exalted whip. Let's not overreact.

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2 hours ago, (PS4)Vagnar said:

That was a follow up to the initial request, not the actual request. I just want the whip, but if they'd be willing to get more creative with it I'd totally be down for that.

 

The only frame in question here is Khora, as her original concept had an exalted whip. Let's not overreact.

People have asked this for Khora, Harrow, Mesa, Nezha and to a lesser extent the remaining exalted users.

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6 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

People have asked this for Khora, Harrow, Mesa, Nezha and to a lesser extent the remaining exalted users.

I didn't. I only asked for Khora, and for the reasons stated above about her original pitch having it in her kit.... BUT Garuda's solution was quite elegant for frames with unique equipment, so it admittedly does make sense people would like to see it implemented back into frames that could utilize it.

 

Why wouldn't we want that again?

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1 hour ago, (PS4)Vagnar said:

I didn't. I only asked for Khora, and for the reasons stated above about her original pitch having it in her kit.... BUT Garuda's solution was quite elegant for frames with unique equipment, so it admittedly does make sense people would like to see it implemented back into frames that could utilize it.

 

Why wouldn't we want that again?

It’s the same argument for why exalted weapons aren’t on every Warframe. Variety. You make every frame the same the game ceases to be interesting. 

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2 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

It’s the same argument for why exalted weapons aren’t on every Warframe. Variety. You make every frame the same the game ceases to be interesting. 

Not that I disagree, but I still stand by my own request. The other frames you mentioned don't make as much sense to me to do this with, but it just feels... right for Khora, and I wouldn't even rank her in my top 5 currently (though I really wanted to).

 

Granted, it'd be nice to see any frame, including Garuda, have access to but not locked into a unique stance were they to do this. I don't use her talons because I find the available movesets fairly meh. 

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this topic has been brought up before ( god knows how many times )

the moment they turned her whip into an exalted weap , it will lose a heap load of dmg coming from rivens / weapon augments

turning into a boring weap similar to garuda's, is just a NONO for khora users

 

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On 2018-12-26 at 11:04 AM, (PS4)Vagnar said:

I think it'd be a great compromise from her original setup.

Would people stop saying this? We never even saw the whip. They just told us there was one and that it would play in to the failed pitch they had for the IPS status changes that bombed so hard.

Frames change in development all the time and just the concept that Khora had some kind of Ability Melee seems to have become one of the frame's greatest 'wouldn't it be cool if' conversations.

But as one of the earlier comments pointed out; Just because a new frame came out with a melee weapon that's automatically equipped when you take off the regular melee (incidentally making it more difficult to level weapons in the Primary and Secondary slot with her) does not automatically mean that this can then be applied to any other frame you feel like.

Khora does not need a whip melee, she has plenty going for her already, and DE already moved on from that concept before they even got around to showing us it truly existed in the first place.

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I agree with saying "no" to a separate whip for Khora. Part of what makes a warframe unique is the things that it does differently from other frames. With Khora, she has the ability to equip two companions at once. No other warframe allows that. Garuda's uniqueness comes from the fact that her claws can be used in place of a melee weapon should the user choose, but they are not exactly an exalted weapon. Nor is Khora's whip. Garuda's claws were added as a melee due to community feedback about her abilities not making proper use of the talons. Khora's whip is on the opposite side of the scale: it is used quite frequently if you know how the synergies work. To allow it to be a separate melee weapon would require the replacement of whipclaw in her kit and would therefore destroy the synergy her abilities have with each other.

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On 2018-12-26 at 9:08 PM, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

No.

Garudas claws are her own unique feature. Not every frame suddenly needs whatever the newest frame does.

And why exactly not? Keep in mind, that Garuda's "unique" claws are not unique at all. It's just normal claws with nothing special about them — they don't have any unique mechanics (apart from being usable only by Garuda), they are not boosted by ability mods, they don't have unique stance. Just a normal basic melee.

I agree that not all frames can have real exalted weapons like well... Exalted Blade. Or Hysteria. Implementing those is definitely a big deal. But adding "signature weapons" like Garuda's Talons should be as simple as making yet another melee weapon — which is basically make a model and assign some stats and that's it.

So yeah, it's not unreasonable at all to ask for a "signature" whip for Khora. It's not absolutely necessary of course, because spamming 1 is close enough, but that's another story.

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13 minutes ago, AlienOvermind said:

And why exactly not? Keep in mind, that Garuda's "unique" claws are not unique at all. It's just normal claws with nothing special about them — they don't have any unique mechanics (apart from being usable only by Garuda), they are not boosted by ability mods, they don't have unique stance. Just a normal basic melee.

I agree that not all frames can have real exalted weapons like well... Exalted Blade. Or Hysteria. Implementing those is definitely a big deal. But adding "signature weapons" like Garuda's Talons should be as simple as making yet another melee weapon — which is basically make a model and assign some stats and that's it.

So yeah, it's not unreasonable at all to ask for a "signature" whip for Khora. It's not absolutely necessary of course, because spamming 1 is close enough, but that's another story.

Garudas claws are unique as they are the first normal type weapon attached directly to the frame. This was added as a compromise because after her reveal everyone was complaining “Why doesn’t she use her claws. I want her to use her claws. Replace her 4 with Exalted claws”. So instead DE chose to do something unique and give Garuda the ability to use those claws as a melee weapon. So that’s her unique feature. But now every bodies like “Well why does that frame get their own attached melee weapon? I want every frame to have their own melee weapon”. Now as a founder does this sound familiar to you at all. It’s literall the Excal Prime arguement of “Well if these people got that frame then why don’t us people”. The answer is simple there. If you’re not a founder you don’t get excal prime. If you’re not Garuda, you’re not entitled to an on Warframe weapon.

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5 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

If you’re not Garuda, you’re not entitled to an on Warframe weapon.

Yeah, I hear you, but my question is still the same: why exactly it should be this way? Preferably without irrelevant analogies.

You know, DE could easily release Garuda without those claws. And if "people complaining" is a valid reason, then Khora should definitely have the same innate melee too. Because people were complaining about her not getting exalted weapon as well.

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30 minutes ago, AlienOvermind said:

Yeah, I hear you, but my question is still the same: why exactly it should be this way? Preferably without irrelevant analogies.

You know, DE could easily release Garuda without those claws. And if "people complaining" is a valid reason, then Khora should definitely have the same innate melee too. Because people were complaining about her not getting exalted weapon as well.

I mean Khora already has Venari as an added bonus, does she really need an on frame melee weapon as well?

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Venari is not an "added bonus", it's the part of her abilities. Does she really need an extra melee — that's a valid question. Maybe she doesn't. But it wouldn't hurt anyone if she'd get one. Also, you can ask the same question about Garuda. And the answer would be the same — she doesn't really need those talons as well. But it's still nice that she got them.

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dont really see why not, wouldnt really change her kit as it'd just be a 'normal' melee weapon

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Depending on how you look at it its a buff or a nerf

Negatives:

Rivens will no longer affect her 1 since it would likely only scale based on mods equiped on her "exalted" whip whether its there or not

Weapon effects/weapon specific mods (Dual Cleavers, Jaw Sword, Skana and Mire mods etc) would no longer work for her 1 (I personally didn't see this via minimum testing, but based on what people said the Mires weapon effect does affect her 1's damage)

 

Positives:

No longer need a stat stick

Would be affected by range mods

Both positive and negative: It would become maiming strike viable making it another spin2win melee

 

On 2018-12-26 at 7:04 AM, (PS4)Vagnar said:

You could also have the damage distributions and crit/status weight differently depending on her Venari stance too, which could add a bit more incentive to mix it up more instead of just locking into whatever stance you prefer.

Let's face it most people would just use whatever gets the most slash and enough status to proc it. It's why DE dumped the idea of Khora being able to change damage types on the fly.

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On 2018-12-26 at 3:13 PM, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

People have asked this for Khora, Harrow, Mesa, Nezha and to a lesser extent the remaining exalted users.

What exalted weapons would harrow even have? 

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48 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

What exalted weapons would harrow even have? 

Maybe the thurible would work like a nunchaku? He already slaps himself on the back with it like they do in the movies.

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On 2018-12-27 at 5:03 AM, MakubexKido said:

this topic has been brought up before ( god knows how many times )

the moment they turned her whip into an exalted weap , it will lose a heap load of dmg coming from rivens / weapon augments

turning into a boring weap similar to garuda's, is just a NONO for khora users

 

I agree that I do not want to lose Riven access

 

However, I would at least like if Melee mods stayed in -effect for WhipClaw even in Gun-only missions. That way Whipclaw doesn't become a wet noodle because melee weapons were not allowed.

(I'm against Garuda-like melee weapon since Garuda's Talons are also removed in said Gun-only (non-melee) missions. Which would not fix the issue of Whipclaw melee mod dependency and the ability becoming really weak with no melee weapon being registered in-mission.)*

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If I remember correctly I just switched some mods and instead of wetnoodling everything to death, I ensnared them with a big range and arca plasmored them to kingdom come.

Whipclaw is just one of Khoras tools and so far there wasnt any sortie condition which forced me to switch her out (I use Ivara for spy).

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12 hours ago, Fiewel said:

If I remember correctly I just switched some mods and instead of wetnoodling everything to death, I ensnared them with a big range and arca plasmored them to kingdom come.

Whipclaw is just one of Khoras tools and so far there wasnt any sortie condition which forced me to switch her out (I use Ivara for spy).

I can switch to a different build for Gun-Only missions.

For my Accumulating Whipclaw build still has 190% range for Ensnare to effective CC without switching mods around.

- Just if melee mods are not applicable due to mission type, than that is a complete wasted Augment

As such : Making Khora's Whip behave like Garuda's Talons would not fix that issue; since Garuda's Talons are removed in the same Gun-Only. 

✓Meaning loss of Rivens for stat boosting just to have a unique whip weapon, that still doesn't persist in Gun-only missions. Seems like a waste to me.

 

As for the Sortie Spy: Khora Ensnare works to disable Cameras and Grinder Spy Drones in addition to normal enemies.

(Works well when Gun-only Sortie as wet-noodle Whipclaw will just trigger propagation)

 

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On 2018-12-26 at 11:08 AM, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

No.

Garudas claws are her own unique feature. Not every frame suddenly needs whatever the newest frame does.

I’m usually right there with you, but this actually makes perfect sense on Khora. She was going to be a damage-switching Exalted whip user until Damage 2.5 got scrapped, and her kit really feels like it could actually benefit from an extra wide-reaching damage source. 

I would advocate for this on Khora, but literally nobody else. 

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35 minutes ago, Gurpgork said:

I’m usually right there with you, but this actually makes perfect sense on Khora. She was going to be a damage-switching Exalted whip user until Damage 2.5 got scrapped, and her kit really feels like it could actually benefit from an extra wide-reaching damage source. 

I would advocate for this on Khora, but literally nobody else. 

There was nothing about the exalted whip being damage changing. And if your really that desperate for long reach whip weapon for user just bring Atterax, other than that WhipClaw is also very effective.

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