Excalibur Prime - Skin Visual Update

[ExcaliBoiPrime]

As a founder I've naturally seen all warframes visually and their prime version and when I compared them to the regular frames, I've noticed Excalibur Prime is literally the only primed Warframe with only a reskin of the regular one. Any other primed Warframe has structurally more parts on them which differentiate them from the regular version. Why the injustice? I know this is only affects him visual but fashionframe is the true endgame anyway. The helmet is fine, it looks simpley gorgeous.

 

Soooo... Can we get a visual update please?

[NightmareT12]

There is no injustice, simply Mynki designed Excalibur Prime as the first Prime and obviously art has gone far and beyond that, whether it was by his doing or by Ray and Geoff.

Also Frost and Mag bodies are basically the same (Frost literally uses the same normal map too), so they would also need a proper upgrade.

The point is: If they go that route it should be via alt skins somehow, and they should release one for at least those first 3.

[Circle_of_Psi]

Not gonna happen, at very least we might get upgrades for the older primes but Excal Prime is a no-no.

 

 

You got what you paid for. Let's not open the can of worms agian., its been asked before and always the answer is NO

[KiroTheTraveler]

I believe they have commented on revisiting older primes in devstream and I don't think they said no or were opposed to revisiting older skins. 

Edited December 28, 2018 by CaptainStrawberry

[WhiteMarker]

2 minutes ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

Not gonna happen, at very least we might get upgrades for the older primes but Excal Prime is a no-no.

You got what you paid for. Let's not open the can of worms agian., its been asked before and always the answer is NO

^this

And I'm a Founder aswell. I don't want my Excal Prime changed. I like that he is a simple reskin and nothing too fancy, nothing over the top.

[BiancaRoughfin]

21 minutes ago, CutieBoi said:

Soooo... Can we get a visual update please?

When speaking about re-skinning older frames, lets avoid using exclusivity Excalibur Prime as an example to avoid turning the topic into a Founder hate topic.

I am in favor of a re-skin for all older frames, both the Primes and None Primes up to a certain date. Any newer frame has not only more advanced and well worked models, they also contain some different materials and metallic parts that give them less of an artificial organic look and more of a bio-mechanical aesthetic. Compare for example normal Zephyr to the Zephyr Prime, the normal one looks like she is made of plastic like an action figure, she has absolutely no metallics and very little to no energy light on her body.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

Do you have idea idea of the backlash there would be for DE focusing efforts on something that only a small percentage of the community actually has?

[MickThejaguar]

The amount of vitriolic hatred that would fill this forum is immeasurable. Also why would they go back and update something that would effect a handful of people? 

[Wrennah]

No.

[(XBOX)Zweimander]

Excalibur prime getting an amazing visual change would take a lot of time and it would effect all of less then 1% of the community. Leaving the other 99% mad that the 1% already has something forever exclusive and looks amazing adding salt to the wound. If they gave him an amazing visual rework all it would do is cause mass rage among the community and it therefore better left as is.

Edited December 30, 2018 by (XB1)Zweimander

[ZodiacShinryu]

This is probably just me being my usual cynical self but I find it interesting the evolution of the arguments around "whether Excal prime can be looked at". I suppose at the base it was always because "only a fixed number of people benefit from it" and envy and jealousy but at least it held some merit when Excal Prime was 'thee' upgrade (even though 25armor at the time was absolutely nothing; and it wasn't even that for a long time before that). But at this point it is anger at a simple cosmetic because Umbra now exists (which is better designed... and free). Yet, we also get a firestorm at the conversation of letting Prime be used on Umbra. It is odd to watch a single cosmetic destroy a game... hehe

However in the fairness of everyone, focusing on Excalibur is missing the point. Frost and Mag definitely could look at a Prime visual pass as well. And it should be done for consistency not on the bases of people affected. Those 3 Primes are the only 3 Primes that are nearly indistinguishable from their normal counterparts without getting real close to inspect them (especially if they aren't wearing a prime helmet).

On ‎2018‎-‎12‎-‎28 at 1:34 PM, WhiteMarker said:

And I'm a Founder aswell. I don't want my Excal Prime changed. I like that he is a simple reskin and nothing too fancy, nothing over the top.

You are entitled to your opinion but DE could just keep it as a classic skin (on all of the primes they retouch), there really isn't a reason to just scrap them. Honestly you could just use the normal chassis and barely miss a beat anyway though. Its not like it needs to be Mesa or Chroma level of touch up especially with this as an example...

Spoiler

Super simple Frost Prime redesign that keeps the sprint of what it was but with that slight Prime push.

[WhiteMarker]

3 hours ago, ZodiacShinryu said:

You are entitled to your opinion but DE could just keep it as a classic skin (on all of the primes they retouch), there really isn't a reason to just scrap them. Honestly you could just use the normal chassis and barely miss a beat anyway though. Its not like it needs to be Mesa or Chroma level of touch up especially with this as an example...

The thing is, that OP has his opinion. I have mine.
But why would DE value one of these opinions over the other?
Fact is, the normal Excal Skin doesn't look like Excal Prime. So no, I couldn't use that as a replacement.

And then there is the fact, that only a really small minority has Excal Prime. And there are threads about rereleasing him on a regular basis. People still hate the fact that they can't get him anymore.
Reworking his skin would fuel that hate even more.

DE can't win anything from making a new Excal Prime Skin. They can only lose.

So I will ask again: Why would DE make a new Excal Prime Skin?

And before you come at me:
I'm just talking about Excal Prime, because this thread is about him. Other Primes are a totally different story altogether.

[ZodiacShinryu]

On ‎2018‎-‎12‎-‎30 at 5:06 AM, WhiteMarker said:

The thing is, that OP has his opinion. I have mine.
But why would DE value one of these opinions over the other?

I wasn't going after your opinion (at all really) fundamentally but part of the reason you stated it could easily be side stepped (with zero effort on DE's part) which is why I said it. If there is a classic skin you can keep what you have and everyone that wants a more consistent prime design can have that.

But no one needs the passive-aggressive stance. If you don't get conflicting opinions there isn't a reason to discuss in the first place and the value is only as good as how well you make your case.

On ‎2018‎-‎12‎-‎30 at 5:06 AM, WhiteMarker said:

Fact is, the normal Excal Skin doesn't look like Excal Prime. So no, I couldn't use that as a replacement.

I didn't say they were exactly the same, I said they use the same basic model. If you swap them you can only tell by the golden flakes (which Excalibur, Frost, and Mag have so very little of). With the PBR updates on the frames allowing tinting on those metallic parts can just obscure their differences even more (especially Mag). So my point was that if you swap the chassis, don't equip the Prime helmet and do random colors, no one on the fly is going to be able to tell the difference between the standard and the prime; not without getting close and inspecting.

So not a full replacement if for whatever reason there wasn't a classic skin but only you would have the same basic model (just without most the metallic bits; his forearm spikes and extended tint on his spine). Combined with everything else going on in Warframe (like Syndanas), no one would know but you [the player making the choices about loadout] about the swap without the better designed comparison. Those are the facts.

On ‎2018‎-‎12‎-‎30 at 5:06 AM, WhiteMarker said:

And then there is the fact, that only a really small minority has Excal Prime. And there are threads about rereleasing him on a regular basis. People still hate the fact that they can't get him anymore.
Reworking his skin would fuel that hate even more.

DE can't win anything from making a new Excal Prime Skin. They can only lose.

With the general tide of opinion it is a surprise DE does anything with anything. They make unpopular decisions all the time and they do it because they feel it makes sense to them. Warframe reworks (lack thereof for Chroma), weapon balancing, reward generation, content pacing/removal... the list can go one.

'DE can't win anything from making/releasing Umbra. They can only lose.'  As evidence from the firestorm that ignited after Umbra's release. Winning and losing is only a matter of perspective. No matter what DE does the general trend will continue.

And people are always angry and hateful, it is one of the most dependable human qualities. But as I said before, this particular hate is pitiful considering Prime is a skin/cosmetic in just but everything but name. Umbra exists now so getting worked up over customization of other people is ridiculous.

On ‎2018‎-‎12‎-‎30 at 5:06 AM, WhiteMarker said:

So I will ask again: Why would DE make a new Excal Prime Skin?

And before you come at me:
I'm just talking about Excal Prime, because this thread is about him. Other Primes are a totally different story altogether.

Consistency? Only Excalibur, Frost, and Mag are Primes by Helmets not by Frames.

I can understand focusing on Excalibur because it was the original topic however believing the others are different story shows the double standard. Only differences on any point is that Excalibur Prime is exclusive (even though he has a replacement). What if Frost/Mag Prime players "like that he is a simple reskin and nothing too fancy, nothing over the top."  So if DE decided to update Frost and Mag, Excalibur Prime would the only Prime that has the same basic model as his standard version. Why is that fair? Because people can't handle their own emotions and feelings? He should be elevated (design-wise) just like every other Prime not just a helmet (mostly). Mesa or Chroma level? Probably not but that is why I shared that Frost design from years ago. It is simple update with the spirit of the original. Since DE isn't going to give the freedom of customization on Umbra for Prime helmet there isn't many other options left.

[WhiteMarker]

6 minutes ago, ZodiacShinryu said:

With the general tide of opinion it is a surprise DE does anything with anything. They make unpopular decisions all the time and they do it because they feel it makes sense to them. Warframe reworks (lack thereof for Chroma), weapon balancing, reward generation, content pacing/removal... the list can go one.

These unpolpular decisions effect the whole playerbase the same way.
Changing Excal Prime's Skin effects some Founders in a positive way, because they want the skin changed. It will effect some Founders in a negative way, because they don't want him changed. And it will effect the rest of the community in a negative way, because DE worked on Founder Stuff.
So no, working on Founder Stuff isn't the same as working on other stuff for the whole community.

8 minutes ago, ZodiacShinryu said:

'DE can't win anything from making/releasing Umbra. They can only lose.'  As evidence from the firestorm that ignited after Umbra's release. Winning and losing is only a matter of perspective. No matter what DE does the general trend will continue.

Excal Prime and Excal Umbra are two different stories.
Only some Founders didn't like Excal Umbra. Only a small group of people that had basically no base to be upset. But working on Excal Prime means making a big group of people upset, with a base for their anger.

As I said, DE has nothing to win from working on Excal Prime. There will be no new sales. Nothing. Only users that are upset. That's no deal any company would ever take.

11 minutes ago, ZodiacShinryu said:

Consistency? Only Excalibur, Frost, and Mag are Primes by Helmets not by Frames.

I'm always confused that people don't list Ember.
She got the same amount of "difference" as the others. (Changed helmet and some minor changes to the chassis)
So why didn't you list Ember? (Just curious)

[ZodiacShinryu]

9 hours ago, WhiteMarker said:

These unpolpular decisions effect the whole playerbase the same way.
Changing Excal Prime's Skin effects some Founders in a positive way, because they want the skin changed. It will effect some Founders in a negative way, because they don't want him changed. And it will effect the rest of the community in a negative way, because DE worked on Founder Stuff.
So no, working on Founder Stuff isn't the same as working on other stuff for the whole community.

It depends on how they do it. Like I said if there is a classic skin there is literally nothing for founders to complain about, nothing has to change for them. It doesn't effect the rest of the community negatively either, it only affects the people that are envious. Most of the community probably doesn't actually care. Most the community probably wont even know and if they aren't on PC they wont even see them. Forums does not equate to the community at large. There are exclusive cosmetics all over the place but I am not losing sleep over any of them.

9 hours ago, WhiteMarker said:

Excal Prime and Excal Umbra are two different stories.
Only some Founders didn't like Excal Umbra. Only a small group of people that had basically no base to be upset. But working on Excal Prime means making a big group of people upset, with a base for their anger.

Yes and no. You dismiss the Founder anger (for people that actually care for the exclusivity) because its a minority group complaining about petty things. Which lets be clear here I don't care if he was released, if people want to pay $50-150 for him (and the other useless weapons in the grand scheme of things) I am not going to stop them (but with Umbra out... now that is a terrible deal). But yet its not petty for everyone else to complain about what was basically a cosmetic since its release? It is only relatively recently that Excalibur was an upgrade but now there is Umbra which is arguably more statically viable/powerful (because of those Umbral polarities). I don't blame Founders for being mad that they paid $50-250 for skins that DE basically invalidated from using practically (at least Excalibur is still viable) and a scheme that was most likely to clean up for working around the Founder deal rather then the intention from the beginning.

9 hours ago, WhiteMarker said:

As I said, DE has nothing to win from working on Excal Prime. There will be no new sales. Nothing. Only users that are upset. That's no deal any company would ever take.

I can certainly agree there isn't much to be gained if it is simply for appeasement but it's not. It's for consistency, which DE is open to or otherwise they would have never boosted his stats to begin with (even if it was only just 25 armor to start with). Its not like its expected they drop everything to do it and we've been down this road before. DE makes a decision, the forums thrown a fit and DE waits for them to tire themselves to sleep.

9 hours ago, WhiteMarker said:

I'm always confused that people don't list Ember.
She got the same amount of "difference" as the others. (Changed helmet and some minor changes to the chassis)
So why didn't you list Ember? (Just curious)

I don't know? Why didn't you list Rhino too? Its probably because Ember and Rhino have slightly different models (it is fairly easy to tell them apart, no matter the color scheme or helmet choice). They certainly aren't a huge difference like the latests of Primes but they are definitely more than Excalibur, Frost and Mag. Ember sort of is cheated because one of her key differences is technically an attachment Prime Shoulder Armor piece that is removeable. That said Frost and Mag also have removable shoulder attachments.

If we are talking about dire needs of visual pass it is easily Mag > Frost > Excalibur > Ember > Rhino. They just happen to be the first 5 Prime frames with Loki being next and the start of more heavily worked models. So much so he was the start of the Prime toggle debate because of how different his model was and how skins worked. So yes, technically Ember and Rhino could use a pass too but not more than the first 3.

[NightmareT12]

On 2018-12-28 at 8:41 PM, BiancaRoughfin said:

When speaking about re-skinning older frames, lets avoid using exclusivity Excalibur Prime as an example to avoid turning the topic into a Founder hate topic.

I am in favor of a re-skin for all older frames, both the Primes and None Primes up to a certain date. Any newer frame has not only more advanced and well worked models, they also contain some different materials and metallic parts that give them less of an artificial organic look and more of a bio-mechanical aesthetic. Compare for example normal Zephyr to the Zephyr Prime, the normal one looks like she is made of plastic like an action figure, she has absolutely no metallics and very little to no energy light on her body.

Well of course, she uses Blinn Phong textures instead of the PBR materials. Maybe one day DE will remember they said they'd need to update the assets 3.5 years ago now. We're in 2019, that should have been long overdue.

On 2018-12-28 at 9:38 PM, MickThejaguar said:

The amount of vitriolic hatred that would fill this forum is immeasurable. Also why would they go back and update something that would effect a handful of people?  

You could use the same argument for the PBR update. So you could for any art issues he has (and he has them). The thing is you can't sell something making a bad business decision, change your stance on said item (Primes being reskins -> Primes being upgrades), have fear of the userbase and literally hold accountable the part of the playerbase that has absolutely no fault off any of their decisions of it.

It's not my fault I bought something and I want it in the best condition possible only because they decided to say "Hey guys, this is never coming back! GO GRABBB ITTTTTTTT" in a desperate maneuver to keep the game and the company afloat.

Fear should never be the driving force behind taking a decision.

On 2018-12-30 at 8:58 AM, ZodiacShinryu said:

-snip-

Ah, that would be pretty. I've been studying the design of Frost though and that design would make no sense though. If only I could draw better, I'd love to make a proper sketch of how things should more or less go according to the other Primes.

Edited January 1, 2019 by NightmareT12

[MickThejaguar]

On 2019-01-01 at 11:19 AM, NightmareT12 said:

You could use the same argument for the PBR update. So you could for any art issues he has (and he has them).

Well no, you couldn't. Say for instance, I wanted an update to Valkyr's Deluxe Skin (which I do, it's atrocious). This change would not only effect me and the others that own the skin now but it would also effect any future buyers of the skin and could heavily influence future purchases. Whereas updating Excal Prime would only serve to please an ever-shrinking minority of players that really has no chance to increase DE profit in any manner. I don't particularly care if they do it or not, there just doesn't really seem to be a reason to waste the manpower do so.

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

he did receive a pbr treatment year prior , voted on it myself 

-also congrats on 1st excal prime thread for 2019 

Edited January 2, 2019 by (XB1)EternalDrk Mako

[----Legacy----]

On 2019-01-01 at 8:46 AM, ZodiacShinryu said:

It depends on how they do it. Like I said if there is a classic skin there is literally nothing for founders to complain about, nothing has to change for them. It doesn't effect the rest of the community negatively either, it only affects the people that are envious. Most of the community probably doesn't actually care. Most the community probably wont even know and if they aren't on PC they wont even see them. Forums does not equate to the community at large. There are exclusive cosmetics all over the place but I am not losing sleep over any of them.

At that point, wouldn't it be better to make a brand new skin that anyone can buy instead of yet another freebie added retroactively for a purchase made 5 years ago? At least that way DE's work can be enjoyed by anyone in the community instead of having a huge growing majority of players locked away from brand new "content" simply for not purchasing a pack that hasn't been available in 5 years but still randomly gets new stuff added on top of it.

Edited January 2, 2019 by ----Legacy----

[ZodiacShinryu]

11 hours ago, ----Legacy---- said:

At that point, wouldn't it be better to make a brand new skin that anyone can buy instead of yet another freebie added retroactively for a purchase made 5 years ago? At least that way DE's work can be enjoyed by anyone in the community instead of having a huge growing majority of players locked away from brand new "content" simply for not purchasing a pack that hasn't been available in 5 years but still randomly gets new stuff added on top of it.

The simplest solution would just be letting Prime helmet on Umbra and vice versa for the people that care for such things. The founders could just forget about the actual Prime and be like everyone else on Umbra because it would finally just be a skin. But did you see the inferno that suggestion caused in threads on the subject and that is absolutely nothing new to the game period. I personally don't like the argument of calling skins "content" because it elevates a problem that isn't there. There is no gameplay element to it, you aren't actually missing anything. 

However, they could make a new skin for everyone but that doesn't particularly do anything for the problem of Prime consistency (for the actual frame) and they can add a new skin at any time for any reason (ex: the switch skin; which by the way all the platform skins are in one way or another exclusive yet somehow Prime gets the most flack). He still looks like his non-prime counterpart (you can make any skin variant a pseudo-prime skin by just using a gold color if it has metallic textures; like the one in the tenno pallet). It is how people get away with making Prime tennogen without actually being Prime.

My personal suggestion is redefining the Founder's Pack as skins (which was its original state back in the days it was around), make a flashy Excalibur cosmetic for Founders and redesign the Prime model. Then re-release Excalibur Prime to global. With my ulterior motive that now DE can actually make a Prime system (since all the Primes are again obtainable) that runs parallel (or perpendicular if people feel saucy) to Umbra to make them actual sidegrades. But I already can see the resistance points on both sides so.... meh.

[----Legacy----]

1 hour ago, ZodiacShinryu said:

The simplest solution would just be letting Prime helmet on Umbra and vice versa for the people that care for such things. The founders could just forget about the actual Prime and be like everyone else on Umbra because it would finally just be a skin. But did you see the inferno that suggestion caused in threads on the subject and that is absolutely nothing new to the game period.

To be fair, i don't see any reason to let players mix and match umbra and prime appereances. We can't equip braton prime skin in braton vandal and the same applies to any weapon with 2 different upgrades like lato (vandal/prime), latron (wraith/prime), etc.

1 hour ago, ZodiacShinryu said:

I personally don't like the argument of calling skins "content" because it elevates a problem that isn't there. There is no gameplay element to it, you aren't actually missing anything. 

I don't like it either, but i know that a huge amount of players get overly protective when it comes to "muh fashionframe" and then they relate it to endgame, reason why i said "content" with the quotation marks around.

1 hour ago, ZodiacShinryu said:

However, they could make a new skin for everyone but that doesn't particularly do anything for the problem of Prime consistency (for the actual frame) and they can add a new skin at any time for any reason

Redesigning old primes opens the gates for people to start asking for redesign to other primes that already have additional prime bits even if these are small such as Nyx' corset and thighs; Ash' arms and hip handles; or whatever. And since some other primes would already have a legacy skin and a new one, you can be sure that consistency would be the battle flag waved to try to get DE to make new redesigned primed skins for every existing prime.

1 hour ago, ZodiacShinryu said:

(ex: the switch skin; which by the way all the platform skins are in one way or another exclusive yet somehow Prime gets the most flack). He still looks like his non-prime counterpart (you can make any skin variant a pseudo-prime skin by just using a gold color if it has metallic textures; like the one in the tenno pallet). It is how people get away with making Prime tennogen without actually being Prime.

Prime gets the most flak for a simple reason, he's not a skin but an actual in game item with progression tied to it that noone will be able to get at any time because of DE's dumb promise back when they were in a desperate position. No matter how much you csll it a skin for looking similar to his non primed counterpart, he's still an upgrade to it, a sidegrade to umbra, and has it's own mastery attached.

1 hour ago, ZodiacShinryu said:

My personal suggestion is redefining the Founder's Pack as skins (which was its original state back in the days it was around), make a flashy Excalibur cosmetic for Founders and redesign the Prime model.

Have you ever looked at the founder pack ad? The excalibur prime from there is exactly what founders got, redesigning it or even turning it into a skin could open the gates for people to call out DE on bait and switch just as much as if they went ahead and suddenly decided to re-release that thing meant to never come back. You can be sure that if founder gear had been skins instead of actual gear there wouldn't be much of a fuss about it, but DE messed up hard back then with their short sighted planning.

1 hour ago, ZodiacShinryu said:

Then re-release Excalibur Prime to global. With my ulterior motive that now DE can actually make a Prime system (since all the Primes are again obtainable) that runs parallel (or perpendicular if people feel saucy) to Umbra to make them actual sidegrades. But I already can see the resistance points on both sides so.... meh.

We all know it's not gonna happen even tough Steve himself has shown regret for locking the community away from part of their game but keeps saying that founder gear won't return ever.

To be fair, i think that the whole founder bs has brought more problems than goid things to DE in the long term since it's content that won't generate any more profit, yet still has to be worked on at times, such as when it was given a PBR pass for the sake of consistency with the rest of the game which is the only visual upgrade it has ever actually needed.

[Irmdall]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb ZodiacShinryu:

My personal suggestion is redefining the Founder's Pack as skins (which was its original state back in the days it was around), make a flashy Excalibur cosmetic for Founders and redesign the Prime model. Then re-release Excalibur Prime to global. With my ulterior motive that now DE can actually make a Prime system (since all the Primes are again obtainable) that runs parallel (or perpendicular if people feel saucy) to Umbra to make them actual sidegrades. But I already can see the resistance points on both sides so.... meh.

Won't happen. Endless discussions have been written, de-railed and finally closed. Making another "flashy Excalibur cosmetic for Founders" just will start another beg-storm from non-founders. They won't make any changes to all Fouder exclusive things. Excalibur Prime and his items are bound to the Founders, we got what we paid for to help DE and Warframe in a difficult time.

Only solution to get a "visual upgrade" for Posterboy Prime, is to create a new "alternative" skin, exclusive for Excalibur Prime and therefore only for Founders. This on the other hand just will create another sh*tstorm.

Just use the search function on the forums and read the other, thousands, threads about the Founder-Topic

Summoning @Letter13

Edited January 3, 2019 by Irmdall

[ZodiacShinryu]

4 hours ago, ----Legacy---- said:

To be fair, i don't see any reason to let players mix and match umbra and prime appereances. We can't equip braton prime skin in braton vandal and the same applies to any weapon with 2 different upgrades like lato (vandal/prime), latron (wraith/prime), etc.

Frames are slightly different from weapons but I could make a whole thread on all the things wrong with how DE did skins vs variants.

4 hours ago, ----Legacy---- said:

Redesigning old primes opens the gates for people to start asking for redesign to other primes that already have additional prime bits even if these are small such as Nyx' corset and thighs; Ash' arms and hip handles; or whatever. And since some other primes would already have a legacy skin and a new one, you can be sure that consistency would be the battle flag waved to try to get DE to make new redesigned primed skins for every existing prime.

Which is why they need to define why its done like anything else. Not everything can be a slippery slope. Buffing Nyx doesn't suddenly mean they have to buff <inseret meta frame>. That is not how balance and consistency works. If the point of the redesign is to bring up the visuals of the Primes in question to more modern designs (at least make them not the same as the base model) then it should be simple reasoning to understand which is and is not on the table. Even though there will be whining on literally anything DE does (connected to this topic or something brand new entirely) it is unavoidable.

4 hours ago, ----Legacy---- said:

Prime gets the most flak for a simple reason, he's not a skin but an actual in game item with progression tied to it that noone will be able to get at any time because of DE's dumb promise back when they were in a desperate position. No matter how much you csll it a skin for looking similar to his non primed counterpart, he's still an upgrade to it, a sidegrade to umbra, and has it's own mastery attached.

Yes and no. Only progression tied to him is the MR which in the grand scheme of things is nothing and means nothing. Otherwise he is just another variant which behaves like the other 2 for the most part. I am not going to disagree that it was a dumb promise though in reality it wasn't the actual pack that is the problem it is the series of choices they made after.

The ONLY time Excalibur Prime was a sidegrade to anything was before Forma and Aura capacity. During the initial release Excalibur Prime was NOT an upgrade, he was basically a skin. He had the exact same stats as Excalibur but had an extra Madurai polarity. Before Formas and boosted capacity there were distinct builds min-max builds for each one (and arguably standard Excalibur had the best build due to having the best allotment for Radial Blind). Then those 2 aforementioned systems came in and they were exactly the same for a couple of years. Also during that time they tentatively released Frost Prime in an event. It was at first believed that they would just be helmet skins but then Frost came out as a whole separate variant too (though much like Excalibur only real difference was the helmet). I don't even remember if Frost had different stats or if his boosted shields came later (when DE decided to update them later). Mag Prime came out much the same as well until Ember Prime was released with much fanfare, a slightly different model (though as mentioned in other posts still very minimal in comparison) and Prime Access (I believe it was soon after Founders ended). Each release after the Prime designs increased detailing as well as loaded more and more stat changes until at some point they went back and gave Excalibur and a couple other early Primes stat changes (in this particular focus Excalibur Prime extra 25 armor only). This was the first time he was an upgrade (even though 25 armor was nothing an average player would notice)... years after the fact.

Simply this is a cumulation of choices DE made far beyond what Founders had any control or forethought for. First they made the Prime separate from the Standard. Then continued a series line that they knew would be missing a part for many people. They then made it a clear upgrade long after it is over through additional systems and changes. What I paid for was a "skin" to now what I got is a separate frame I didn't particularly ask for. A "skin" that is particularly statistically less useful than Umbra (and design-wise less appealing my large margins) and can't be used any other way. I personally wouldn't say he is a sidegrade to Umbra because Umbra is generally better (an upgrade); the gap between them just isn't as large as the standard-prime relationship.

5 hours ago, ----Legacy---- said:

Have you ever looked at the founder pack ad? The excalibur prime from there is exactly what founders got, redesigning it or even turning it into a skin could open the gates for people to call out DE on bait and switch just as much as if they went ahead and suddenly decided to re-release that thing meant to never come back. You can be sure that if founder gear had been skins instead of actual gear there wouldn't be much of a fuss about it, but DE messed up hard back then with their short sighted planning.

I am aware I bought it after all. That said people already feel Umbra was a bait and switch on the subject. Only getting around it by sidestepping the issue and focusing on the literal text. "Well he's not Excalibur Prime!" So? He is gilded, has Prime stats, and functions like Excalibur with an extra system on top. The spirit of the promise is stretched to its limit. So much so the only real use out of Excalibur Prime being a shiny skin can't even happen because he cant be used on that variant. But the community isn't going to in an real volume call out DE for that being they got something they wanted.

5 hours ago, ----Legacy---- said:

We all know it's not gonna happen even tough Steve himself has shown regret for locking the community away from part of their game but keeps saying that founder gear won't return ever.

I am also well aware, it is the reason I wrote it that way. The only thing this promise does is hinder everyone but no matter what DE does (or doesn't do), someone is going to be mad.

5 hours ago, Irmdall said:

Won't happen. Endless discussions have been written, de-railed and finally closed. Making another "flashy Excalibur cosmetic for Founders" just will start another beg-storm from non-founders. They won't make any changes to all Fouder exclusive things. Excalibur Prime and his items are bound to the Founders, we got what we paid for to help DE and Warframe in a difficult time.

Only solution to get a "visual upgrade" for Posterboy Prime, is to create a new "alternative" skin, exclusive for Excalibur Prime and therefore only for Founders. This on the other hand just will create another sh*tstorm.

Well aware. Though the point of the "suggestion" is to actually make it skins (Founder Skins) as to not completely invalidate the purchase. In that way they wouldn't be so far off from being like console skins. Then everyone has access to everything and the game can proceed as normal unhindered.The only reason for the "flashy cosmetic" is for that goal but it will never cease to amaze me how petty people can be (in general) over a cosmetic. I mean otherwise I said I "personally" don't care if people paid $50-250 like Founders for subpar items, that is their own choice but it is only for the fairness of the deal.

5 hours ago, Irmdall said:

Just use the search function on the forums and read the other, thousands, threads about the Founder-Topic

I don't need to search, I have read through and even participated already in a number of them. I am simply not afraid to state my opinion on the matter when I feel like it. That is all.

[Darkuhn]

Am 28.12.2018 um 20:14 schrieb CutieBoi:

Can we get a visual update please

The only way I see DE could do this is with an alt Skin for Excalibur Umbra without the scarf, that can be used on Excalibur Prime as well. Or looks slightly different on every Excalibur variant. So every player can use it, even as they advance from normal Excalibur to Excalibur Umbra.

[xMarvin732]

"As a founder I've naturally seen all warframes visually and their prime version and when I compared them to the regular frames, I've noticed Excalibur Prime is literally the only primed Warframe with only a reskin of the regular one."
Frost and Frost Prime aswell, Frost Prime is the same, he only has his helmet different and on the shoulder two attachments different, otherwise Frost and Frost Prime look basically the same compared to all the new Primes