I have a question about Ordis... (MAJOR SPOILERS!)

[Ryusuta]

I've finally listened to all of the Cephalon Fragment recordings, detailing Ordis's old life as Ordan Karris. It was an amazingly tragic story, well-told. Ordis has always been my favorite character in the game, but hearing that story made me see him in an all new light.

To me, though, the most disturbing part of the story was the fact that he was essentially lobotomized when he was transformed into a cephalon, with Ballas dictating his entire motivation to him. It makes me genuinely wonder about the relationship between Ordis and the Operator. On the one hand, Ordis was commanded to love the Operator, which means that love is just a simulation; meaningless. On the other hand, Ordis somehow seems even MORE loyal to the Operator when he flips into his "Ordan Karris" mindset.

My question about the character is this: Is Ordis only loyal to us because he HAS to be, or would he still want to stay by us if he ever fully reclaimed his old identity?

Because if the former, it's very possible he's just a tool in a long game, and even if he's not, it cheapens everything about him to the point of meaninglessness. (I also wonder if ALL Cephalons are former living beings that met a similar fate, or if Ordis was a special case.)

I don't know if this has a definitive answer outside of speculation (maybe it does and I've not seen it), but I would really like you guys' thoughts on it.

[EDM774]

The orokin like to play god with other beings. Like Ordis, Excalibur Umbra and god knows how many others. if you haven't completed the Sacrifice Quest yet I highly recommend you going for it!

I personally want to see Ordis get his former self back, so we can fight alongside him!

EDIT : I remember that Cephalon suda's origin story from the warframe Comics is quite dramatic and sad as well. I recommend you looking into that as well.

Edited December 29, 2018 by EDM774

[(PSN)OriginalEquinox]

Well we were the first living beings he'd seen in decades so that alone probably made him bond with us the way he did, so I doubt he'll be turning his back on us anytime soon

6 minutes ago, Ryusuta said:

I also wonder if ALL Cephalons are former living beings that met a similar fate, or if Ordis was a special case.)

Yes cephalons were created either by choice to preserve their knowledge (Suda, Simaris) or as a means of punishment (Ordis and Jordas) I believe

[-Temp0-]

Цитата

My question about the character is this: Is Ordis only loyal to us because he HAS to be, or would he still want to stay by us if he ever fully reclaimed his old identity?

Yeah well you have to understand first there's no identity anymore. The human already died and with it died that identity, both physically and metaphorically. New one that is Ordis pretty much decided to forget. Which is what matters. He doesnt really want to remember or have that "identity" back.

Цитата

 On the other hand, Ordis somehow seems even MORE loyal to the Operator when he flips into his "Ordan Karris" mindset.

Not sure where you got this idea from.

[Ryusuta]

30 minutes ago, EDM774 said:

The orokin like to play god with other beings. Like Ordis, Excalibur Umbra and god knows how many others. if you haven't completed the Sacrifice Quest yet I highly recommend you going for it!

I personally want to see Ordis get his former self back, so we can fight alongside him!

EDIT : I remember that Cephalon suda's origin story from the warframe Comics is quite dramatic and sad as well. I recommend you looking into that as well.

I read the cliffnotes of The Sacrifice, but I've been dragging my feet on it because 

A: It makes the Operator seem like a gullible jerk, especially with the alignment choice options and the aftermath with the man in the wall.
B: I'd rather not see Lotus's random heel turn
C I'm not that interested in Excalibur Umbra

I'll probably get around to it eventually, but I'm just kinda waiting on the inevitable Natah bossfight/reunion.

16 minutes ago, -Temp0- said:

Not sure where you got this idea from.

Lines like this, for instance: https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/warframe/images/3/32/OrdisNewStrange17.ogg

Edited December 29, 2018 by Ryusuta

[-Temp0-]

Цитата

Lines like this, for instance

You can hear just equally many lines like this spoken by the Ordis persona. Thats not something unique for the glitchy one.

They probably stand out to you because there's more emotions put in the voice. They literally say the same things (and later in the Chroma quest its Ordis who tells Simaris to f off too) but the Ordan persona is more directt, loud and all the shiet.

Edited December 29, 2018 by -Temp0-

[Ryusuta]

1 minute ago, -Temp0- said:

You can hear just equally many lines like this spoken by the Ordis persona. Thats not something unique for the glitchy one.

 

No, but there is a lot of intensity to it. I suppose it's hard to say one way or another, but the point was that the "Karris" part of his mind seems to care about the Operator as well.

It's sort of a hopeful note that Ordis isn't just a puppet doing the will of his "creator." That his loyalty is real and not just some cheap computer simulation.

It's really a challenging and confusing issue. Ordis is more complicated as a character than I could have guessed.

[-Temp0-]

Цитата

No, but there is a lot of intensity to it. I suppose it's hard to say one way or another, but the point was that the "Karris" part of his mind seems to care about the Operator as well.

Well I never said otherwise. Lets forget for a monet he was thinking of killing it lmao.

Just saying that Ordan is just way louder than Ordis in general.

[Ryusuta]

A very fair point.

[CriticalFumble]

1 hour ago, Ryusuta said:

(I also wonder if ALL Cephalons are former living beings that met a similar fate, or if Ordis was a special case.)

As noted above Cephalons are what happens when you Kuva a human into a computer.  

It seems that the Orokin did this because of a deep and apparently justified distrust of AI.  Waiting to see if this is because of a feature of the universe or just a case of, "This is a work of fiction, of COURSE the AIs go rogue".  Though it may have been more to do with keeping the Sentient from co-opting all their machinery than a long-standing decision.  

Not sure on what Ordan would do if he were "recovered".  He was a violent merc, but he wasn't gennerally homocidal, he just had a particular beef with the Orokin.  We're broken off from them, so I don't know that he wouldn't be content to work with us.  

I also don't think that the glitches are Ordan himself, maybe just flashes where Ordis percieves things through a fragment of Ordan's memories.  

[Ryusuta]

Yeah, that is the strange thing, isn't it? It's sort of speculative if those glitches are Ordis, Ordan, something in-between, or something else entirely. I do know that he uses an admittedly tamer version of that voice when he speaks in first person as Ordan. 

Ordis really is an interesting character; more and more as things are revealed. I suppose how much of this was part of Ballas's plan is going to remain a mystery for a long time.

Personally, I can only hope that Ordis likes us now, not because of Ballas's tampering, but because it's what he's genuinely come to feel through his experiences. Because if it's the former, it pretty much renders his character meaningless.

[Littlemike137]

But doesn't the 

2 hours ago, Ryusuta said:

I've finally listened to all of the Cephalon Fragment recordings, detailing Ordis's old life as Ordan Karris. It was an amazingly tragic story, well-told. Ordis has always been my favorite character in the game, but hearing that story made me see him in an all new light.

To me, though, the most disturbing part of the story was the fact that he was essentially lobotomized when he was transformed into a cephalon, with Ballas dictating his entire motivation to him. It makes me genuinely wonder about the relationship between Ordis and the Operator. On the one hand, Ordis was commanded to love the Operator, which means that love is just a simulation; meaningless. On the other hand, Ordis somehow seems even MORE loyal to the Operator when he flips into his "Ordan Karris" mindset.

My question about the character is this: Is Ordis only loyal to us because he HAS to be, or would he still want to stay by us if he ever fully reclaimed his old identity?

But doesn't it say that he got all of his old memories back, that he remembered everything about who and what he was?  And then he proceeds to delete all of his memories again so that he can serve the operator without troubles.  Personally I think he is more like one of the WWI batmen, who were servants who would follow their former masters into the trenches in order to take care of them.  (Fun fact, Sam, in LotR, is based off of them.)

[ant99999]

Why does 'Ordan Karris' side of Ordis care for the operator?

Karris was a man of honor, stepping over himself when he had to kill hundreds in the name of the Orokin, making a great sacrifice to reach a great goal (as he probably told himself). But when in the end he reached nothing with his attempt at Orokin genocide he realised how great of a crime he commited. His attitude towards the operator when his personality speaks for Ordis is an attempt to atone or more likely to forget sins of his past.

Are Ordis' 'glitches' really Karris' identity breaking out?

We don't know for sure, but I'm convinced they aren't exactly this. From his story we know that while waiting for his operstor to awake Ordis unintentionally rebuilt scattered memory fragments into Ordan Karris' personality, but afraid of what it was, he has hidden it behind his other memories. So what it is supposed to mean is that whenever Ordis remembers something, be it some fact or just a word to say, he sometimes instead wakes a fragment of Karris' personality. So his glitches are probably not him 'switching' personalities (as we have seen from listening to his story he is capable of it as well, but it looks a lot different from usual glitches), but rather 'quoting' Karris when trying to speak.

Edited December 30, 2018 by ant99999

[Ryusuta]

Interesting hypothesis. 

What I would say to that, though, is that Ordis is TRYING to keep himself at a distance from who he was. He's TRYING to hide his memories away. He's TRYING to let that man die. But due partially to is own inability to fully stay away from his memories, and partially to the fact that we literally scanned them all to learn about him ourselves, he's not succeeding. At least not fully.

I have a lot of outlandish guesses/predictions about Ordis, but none of them have 100% solid footing. That being said, it's a lot of fun to speculate on.

Just remember guys...

"Do not lift the veil. Do not show the door. Do not split the dream."

Edited December 30, 2018 by Ryusuta

[Chaemyerelis]

?Where are these recordings?

[Ryusuta]

You can find them by scanning all of the Cephalon Fragments scattered throughout every planet with a Codex.

You can check out more info here if you'd like: hhttps://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Cephalon_Fragments#Cephalon_Fragments_.28Ordis.29

Edited December 30, 2018 by Ryusuta