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An Inquiry About Operators [Spoilers]


KrnlKrazy
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So heads up this discussion is going to have spoilers and I can't promise it will cut off from any point so if you haven't, play the quests!

 

 

 

So something in the lore and story has bugged me for a bit. Enough to get me to post which isn't something I do really. Let me lay it out.

The 2nd Dream its established that the Operators have been unaware of their own existence, presuming that they were the warframes. Now Tenno fought the Old War, which from my understanding was a fairly long one.  Would this not then mean Operators would have a transference of the knowledge? Akin to how in Assassins Creed you learn to be an assassin by going through a simulation. Sure I can understand if they have a hard time remembering all of the Old War. But it seems blatant they kept their skills as a Tenno. So if thats the case why do they show no real discipline and expertise in the art of war? I'll end my questions here as I'll end up rambling. 

Interested to see if you guys can point me to what I missed or if this has any validity.

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Think of it this way; lets say you used to play with a yo-yo when you were really young and could do all these cool tricks with it but then put the yo-yo down one day and don't pick it up. Then later when you are an adult (so around 10+ years) you find your yo-yo that you forgot about; you wouldn't remember how to do all the cool tricks you use to be able to do at first and no doubt your skills would have become rusty, to the point that you are basically a beginner again.

Transferring this to the operator; they have forgotten about the events of the Old War, hell even of their own selves until the second dream and even after re-learning about themselves they don't remember every thing. They only gain access to the basic skills thanks to Teshin's guidance in TWW; similar to finding a yo-yo and being taught the basics again by someone else.

It also makes sense that they don't have any real discipline or art of war as they are still missing some of their memories and in their bodies are still in early adolescence. It also doesn't help that they don't have proper "Adult/Supervisor/Teacher/Mentor"s that teach them discipline or the arts of war other than the Lotus (And we all know how that went). Ordis doesn't do anything to promote discipline and is missing his own memories, Teshin barely gets listened to because he is only part of the conclave, and everyone else is either out to kill us or use us for something (this includes both the people of Cetus and Fortuna).

Tl;DR they were re-taught their skills by Teshin in TWW, still have a lapse in memory about the Old War, and don't have anyone to properly teach them about discipline or the art of war.

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8 hours ago, KrnlKrazy said:

So heads up this discussion is going to have spoilers and I can't promise it will cut off from any point so if you haven't, play the quests!

So something in the lore and story has bugged me for a bit. Enough to get me to post which isn't something I do really. Let me lay it out.

The 2nd Dream its established that the Operators have been unaware of their own existence, presuming that they were the warframes. Now Tenno fought the Old War, which from my understanding was a fairly long one.  Would this not then mean Operators would have a transference of the knowledge? Akin to how in Assassins Creed you learn to be an assassin by going through a simulation. Sure I can understand if they have a hard time remembering all of the Old War. But it seems blatant they kept their skills as a Tenno. So if thats the case why do they show no real discipline and expertise in the art of war? I'll end my questions here as I'll end up rambling. 

Interested to see if you guys can point me to what I missed or if this has any validity.

The Tenno were also asleep during the Old War, deliberately placed in a receptive state where the detail, horror and memories of what had happened to them were unavailable.

However long the Old War was and whatever "culture" the Tenno created was functionally a shared dream of being "superheroes". Waking up from that caused their real history to return and the dream history to still be there but in a much less real and tangible manner, just like dreams.

Remember that our Tenno even accepted building and changing Warframe without questioning their nature, well before the events of "The Second Dream". That indicates how incapable of questioning they were.

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I'm not entirely sure what is trying to be said here, the tenno are as functional foot soldiers now as we should assume they were in the past. We're actively in and out of battle zones all the time presently, enacting assassinations and acts of espionage and all other kinds of war time activities, all to a great deal of success against poignant foes, what exactly do they appear to be missing?

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14 minutes ago, SilentMobius said:

Remember that our Tenno even accepted building and changing Warframe without questioning their nature, well before the events of "The Second Dream". That indicates how incapable of questioning they were.

I think it's not like they don't have question, they just don't question it. Thinking of it this way, if you were Operator you would see through Warframe eyes in 1st person view. When you changing Warframe (which can only be done in Arsenal from either Orbiter or Relay), the view just cut out for a second and when the visual come back. You're already in the new Warframe. Since it can only be done in Arsenal, they would think it's the way things are. Like any player who have play the game for the first time, if they don't know about operator they would still think Warframe have a person inside (even if the Warframe clearly have difference gender).

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2 hours ago, BornWithTeeth said:

Operators can do sick martial arts katas. Seriously. Equip any of the Narta emotes and get your Operator to perform it.

 

Good sign, I guess.

Interesting point:

They didn't used to be able to. This was a recent change.

Curious.

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11 hours ago, NocheLuz said:

I think it's not like they don't have question, they just don't question it. Thinking of it this way, if you were Operator you would see through Warframe eyes in 1st person view. When you changing Warframe (which can only be done in Arsenal from either Orbiter or Relay), the view just cut out for a second and when the visual come back. You're already in the new Warframe. Since it can only be done in Arsenal, they would think it's the way things are. Like any player who have play the game for the first time, if they don't know about operator they would still think Warframe have a person inside (even if the Warframe clearly have difference gender).

Not at all, any normal human would wonder what the hell was going on, humans develop body identity persistence very early on, even little changes like puberty require a massive amount of adjustment.

it's not like tenno don't have reference for what people are and players know this too. Prior to TSD existing the nature of the tenno was hotly debated (some people believe each player controlled many tenno each permanently fused in each new warframe, They never explained where the Tenno came from though.), It would be the first thought on building a new warframe "If i can suddenly be in this other body I built, what am I really?"

However, in a dream, logic is optional, things can change and be accepted that make no sense to the conscious mind. I'n a dream you can be unable to realise that something is does not follow.

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57 minutes ago, SilentMobius said:

Not at all, any normal human would wonder what the hell was going on, humans develop body identity persistence very early on, even little changes like puberty require a massive amount of adjustment.

it's not like tenno don't have reference for what people are and players know this too. Prior to TSD existing the nature of the tenno was hotly debated (some people believe each player controlled many tenno each permanently fused in each new warframe, They never explained where the Tenno came from though.), It would be the first thought on building a new warframe "If i can suddenly be in this other body I built, what am I really?"

However, in a dream, logic is optional, things can change and be accepted that make no sense to the conscious mind. I'n a dream you can be unable to realise that something is does not follow.

Then how about this. You know Science right? There are Scientists out there who question everything and try to explore everything. But then, what about other people? Like, Gravity... why not everyone have a question about 'Gravity'? They do know about it now because they do learn about it in school. But then why most Kids don't question it? To be exact, they don't directly question about 'Gravity' because they do not know about it. They do question about things related to it but not Gravity itself. Now, when look back into Warframe. They do question about why they can move they Warframe... Because it's respond to their thought, they related to it somehow. Maybe they're Warframe itself? They do not know about 'Who' in control but they do know that they can 'Move' it.

'Dream' maybe an answer to everything. But for me, since in reality most people do not have question about how their 'Body' or how their 'Life' works... it's just that simple when compare to 'Kids' in the 'Warframe'. I know that maybe becasue they do not have time to think about it, but may be the Tenno also don't have time for it too? who knows...

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Thanks for the responses. I think a lot of this confusion is due to the lack of structural planning from DE. I compare it to a Dungeon Master making up the story during the session. The DM can put on a good show and people can have fun. But its not exactly a story that'd every be able stand on its own without more polish. Granted I'm not trying to dismiss the world building DE has done. I just have issues with how the characters are written. If the Operator had retained any amount of culture or what have you, then it would have at least make them feel apart of the world and as tho they had made decisions. As of now they feel like cardboard cut outs that could easily be in a completely different setting say for the abilities they have. 

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