_Dan

Haven't you guys made enough money at this point to have dedicated servers?

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Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, (PS4)Mono-Pop said:

Considering they’ve kept 250+ people employed over the last five years, I think it’s a LOT bigger than you think.

 

17 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Oh look, another one that's got something that should be easily verifiable. 

Please provide proof of your claim that DE has had 250+ employees for over 5 years. 

Also please consider the fact that employees tend to be "paid" with "money" which tends to have a way of decreasing the amount of extra money that you have just laying around, (something often referred to as "profit"). 

 

Of course, if you can't provide that proof then please consider taking a moment to ensure that you actually know what you are talking about, the next time you feel certain that you know what you are talking about. 

 

Take a few minutes to read this...

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-04-22-dont-be-surprised-that-just-2-2-per-cent-of-f2p-players-spend-money

It basically explains F2P titles are designed with the assumption most players will spend no, or very little money.

 

So while they can be viable insofar as they can still be profitable for a studio, it won't give them the kind of money to throw around that triple A titles would.

Which has basically been the basis of my argument the whole time.

 

World of Tanks is one of, if not THE, most profitable F2P game and it only has an average player expenditure of around $4.50.

 

Now consider that Warframe is considerably less successful than WoT.

 

 

Edited by FlusteredFerret
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Posted (edited)

to people who keep asking for de's financials, you can go check leyou's financial reports and make an educated assumption considering warframe is their flagship product. games that make far less have dedicated servers. 

 @FlusteredFerret, warframe is one of the top selling titles in steam rn, and its not a rare thing for f2p games to actually compete with several paid games in profit, so that argument doesnt really hold any water. de makes more than enough. 

and to people who show destiny as an example, do remember that destiny doesnt use p2p everywhere, and the p2p in their game has a far more efficient netcode and server support to prevent host migration problems from happening. pure p2p is a dead concept. 

tbh theres really no point in arguing this, and im frankly tired of people continuously deny industry realities. i'd say this thread needs to be closed really. sorry OP.

Edited by Zeclem
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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Zeclem said:

warframe doesnt exactly make content thats worth a whole new game every year. 

And? This isn't COD or FIFA. Despite its content droughts Warframe has effectively become a new game several times over in the 5 years since its initial release. All for free along the way. Yearly would be breakneck even for a AAA dev charging for every expansion.

10 hours ago, Zeclem said:

pve isnt balanced in this game at all tho, much less than balance of overwatch's pvp. if that was the case we wouldnt have frames like saryn, inaros or mesa

I'm not sure someone who thinks Inaros is an indication of poor PvE balance has any business telling me I have no idea what I'm talking about.

10 hours ago, Zeclem said:

and riven system? are you serious or joking? the amount of times that riven dispositions got changed are less than years they were on the game, and none of those changes were anything noteworthy. after that comparison its clear that you dont have much of an idea about what you are talking about. have a good day. 

What is this handwaving garbage? None of the changes were noteworthy and I'm still the one who has no idea what I'm talking about? I might as well just tell you that none of the P2P issues are noteworthy since so many players replying to this thread play the game just fine as is.

Edited by Beartornado
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11 hours ago, Zeclem said:

its not a "golden example". any triple a franchise that doesnt do yearly releases of the same title has studio sizes around those numbers, and warframe doesnt exactly make content thats worth a whole new game every year. 

pve isnt balanced in this game at all tho, much less than balance of overwatch's pvp. if that was the case we wouldnt have frames like saryn, inaros or mesa. and riven system? are you serious or joking? the amount of times that riven dispositions got changed are less than years they were on the game, and none of those changes were anything noteworthy. after that comparison its clear that you dont have much of an idea about what you are talking about. have a good day. 

Dude you’re talking about balance in a PVE game. “It’s clear that you don’t have much of an idea about what you are talking about.”

What is balanced PVE?

Does every frame need to deal = damage?

Every frame needs = eHP?

No dude, all that’s required of PVE is that it’s fun.

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30 minutes ago, Beartornado said:

And? This isn't COD or FIFA. Despite its content droughts Warframe has effectively become a new game several times over in the 5 years since its initial release. All for free along the way. Yearly would be breakneck even for a AAA dev charging for every expansion.

It's NOT for free. Someone has to pay for it.

THE difference between AAA titles and FTP is AAA titles operate on a STEADY stream of money via buying expansion and/or subs. This is HOW they can churn regular updates (studios don't operate without money in hand to PRODUCE content ... the payroll/license fees and light bill has to be paid and without IOUs).

How did Blizzard even get started? The president and his friend funded it through his their maxed out CREDIT CARDS. Not until they "made it big" did they gain loans/venture capital (and now being overtaken by the BEAST, Activision).

BUT someone has to pay for the game.

And IF DE is making enough cash, they can fund matchmaking servers that are more reliable than client networking ... and place them in regions so players don't have 3 second delays with calls to the DE's servers.

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3 hours ago, Zeclem said:

to people who keep asking for de's financials, you can go check leyou's financial reports and make an educated assumption considering warframe is their flagship product. games that make far less have dedicated servers. 

Uh you know that there's a world of difference between what they make as the 'parent' company and what warframe is going to have access to, right? You grasp that, don't you? 

3 hours ago, Zeclem said:

and to people who show destiny as an example, do remember that destiny doesnt use p2p everywhere, and the p2p in their game has a far more efficient netcode and server support to prevent host migration problems from happening. pure p2p is a dead concept. 

Pop quiz, does DE use only P2P? Take a moment. 

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5 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Pop quiz, does DE use only P2P? Take a moment. 

No. But the client/server woes have been noticed for years in plenty of games. Bf3, OMG!!!!!!!!

BUT I get really good connection latency in WoW that is also STABLE (unless they're being DDoSed), and that experience makes WF connection woes FEEL subpar.

Blizzard invested a heck of a lot of money in their servers, and damn, the connection is stable and the delays in combat aren't noticeable by the player generally. It sure beats the days of 300ms connections to Seattle and DBM knocking everyone in the raid offline in 2010.

It DOES matter.

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1 minute ago, Kevyne_Kicklighter said:

Blizzard invested a heck of a lot of money in their servers, and damn, the connection is stable and the delays in combat aren't noticeable by the player generally.

And therein lies the rub, doesn't it? And how did Blizzard make that money? Oh right, by getting everyone to pay for it. How much does warframe charge in subscriptions again? Oh...... You see? 

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5 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

And therein lies the rub, doesn't it? And how did Blizzard make that money? Oh right, by getting everyone to pay for it. How much does warframe charge in subscriptions again? Oh...... You see? 

Thus, THE problem in question.

As they say, "you get what you PAY for".

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On 2019-01-04 at 12:55 AM, _Dan said:

haha wow, a screen shot i took of some software on my router is completely irrelevant and you're going off on a tangent here... it's irrelevant to the whole point of this thread, it probably rounded the number down, please, email the people who made my router and tell them about it?.. Would that make you feel better? here is the router: https://www.asus.com/Networking/RT-AC2900/ maybe email customer support and let them know about it, have fun dude!

Meanwhile I'm gonna keep on being a lilbich in this thread because every time i play this game i lose hours of my time and resources to dropped host migration in public games, all they need to do is give us the option to be the host. that's all, no dedicated servers? fine.

 

It probably did round down, but didn't show it. That is a pretty sick router though. Generally Pings to and from should be above 0. If it is actually saying 0, something is usually wrong.

More to the thread, I don't think DE has plans to get Dedicated servers. It would mean setting up reliable Infrastructure across multiple zones, each with different sets of providers, with different rules. That infrastructure would have to be slightly more reliable to be viable for your argument (which may be unlikely, but who knows), and would have to be incredibly secure against Penetration (read: Hacking). The more devices you add into the network, the larger the footprint, the easier it is to get into. Regardless of the cost, assuming cost is a non-issue, it would simply take a lot of time to set up something that is remotely usable to players who may be in regions that suffer from bad-connection issues. Generally, businesses skip out on good security practices to cut costs as well, so it is unreasonable to think that DE (a relatively new business that just hit it big) would be able to invest in such stuff right now. It isn't like you can pay an average Joe to set up a WAN to multiple LANs, with multiple VLANs for different office branches, and expect it done in a short time frame; you're probably looking at a large team of people, with good communication skills and a couple of translators for foreign countries (I think DE is in Canada, or stationed there). That's a lot of investments to be made on something that may only be marginally better than what you have now, not to mention incredibly risky considering the security necessary to keep data safe. That's not even including any security hardware or software. One mis-step could become down-time for extended periods as well.

It may then be a better issue to squad up with people with the following:

  • Decent internet
  • Live relatively close to you (same region).

Not going to lie, this isn't an optimal fix at all, but more realistic than dedicated servers at this point.

 

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11 hours ago, _Dan said:

This has been on the front page for close to a week now, DE really doesn't give 2 S#&$s about this do they lol

You're in General Discussion, not Feedback.  DE regularly reads the sections in which people post their suggestions to improve the game, not the section where players post and talk about whatever. 

So I don't quite understand why you would expect, well, anything more than us mere forumgoers talking among ourselves.  Not to mention it's been on the front page mainly because of squabbling rather than meaningful discussion and argumentation, "Last Post Wins" has been on the front page for, what, five years going on six so front-page time is hardly something worth being proud of or deserving special attention.

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Uh you know that there's a world of difference between what they make as the 'parent' company and what warframe is going to have access to, right? You grasp that, don't you? 

Pop quiz, does DE use only P2P? Take a moment. 

yes, every kind of mission uses a crap tier p2p. and its not a "world of difference" considering no reasonable company would just not invest in their flagship product. they dont just take the money and keep it in a cave and put a dragon on it to protect it. 

yeah ofc this game doesnt make any money at all even tho its the top seller in steam and games that are far smaller have dedicated servers, they cant afford it at all! are you even serious mate? 

9 hours ago, (PS4)Mono-Pop said:

Dude you’re talking about balance in a PVE game. “It’s clear that you don’t have much of an idea about what you are talking about.”

What is balanced PVE?

Does every frame need to deal = damage?

Every frame needs = eHP?

No dude, all that’s required of PVE is that it’s fun.

that has nothing to do with the point being made there considering it was an answer to the dude who actually thinks riven system is actually being worked on properly and not left to dust because he thinks that de actually has to spend time on balancing the game more than overwatch does. 

Edited by Zeclem
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10 hours ago, Kevyne_Kicklighter said:

Thus, THE problem in question.

As they say, "you get what you PAY for".

So if Warframe changed to a subscription-based game, they would easily be able to fund dedicated servers, right?

 

Assuming most of the player base didn't clear off and find something else to play...

 

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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, Zeclem said:

to people who keep asking for de's financials, you can go check leyou's financial reports and make an educated assumption considering warframe is their flagship product. games that make far less have dedicated servers. 

 @FlusteredFerret, warframe is one of the top selling titles in steam rn, and its not a rare thing for f2p games to actually compete with several paid games in profit, so that argument doesnt really hold any water. de makes more than enough. 

and to people who show destiny as an example, do remember that destiny doesnt use p2p everywhere, and the p2p in their game has a far more efficient netcode and server support to prevent host migration problems from happening. pure p2p is a dead concept. 

tbh theres really no point in arguing this, and im frankly tired of people continuously deny industry realities. i'd say this thread needs to be closed really. sorry OP.

Pure speculation...you are doing nothing other than repeating the same old assumptions, with No evidence to back up your claims. Yes, claims - thats all they are.

Go away and find some hard figures to back up these claims and people might start to take you seriously.

I have actually done some research into F2P gaming...you clearly haven't...or are so blinded by your bias you can't even follow logical arguments.

 

Edited by FlusteredFerret
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Posted (edited)
Quote

by Zeclem

to people who keep asking for de's financials, you can go check leyou's financial reports and make an educated assumption considering warframe is their flagship product. games that make far less have dedicated servers.

 

Another assumption. If you'd even bothered to check Leyou's website, you would see that DE are just one of half a dozen companies on their gaming portfolio, the others being Athlon Gaming, Certain Affinity, Splash Damage and Changyou.

Leyou is a Hong Kong based company and so I would imagine their primary area of interest would be the Chinese market (over 1bn Chinese, compared to 400m or so North Americans).

 

 

 

Edited by FlusteredFerret
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think of it like this. DE is just a Ho and Leyou is their pimp, DE makes to money but they don't keep it or get to decide on what it's spent on. it all goes to the pockets of the Chinese investors and board members.

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On 2019-01-01 at 12:36 AM, _Dan said:

At the very least,  please give us the option to choose if we want to always be the host... Is that possible? 

No they dont make enough for dedicated servers and grow the game competitively. But yes the option to always be host is a great idea. When I lose stuff I yell this at the scream all the time. "JUST LET ME F**KING HOST I DONT LEAVE!!!!!". lol especially in Onslaught.

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2 hours ago, FlusteredFerret said:

Pure speculation...you are doing nothing other than repeating the same old assumptions, with No evidence to back up your claims. Yes, claims - thats all they are.

Go away and find some hard figures to back up these claims and people might start to take you seriously.

I have actually done some research into F2P gaming...you clearly haven't...or are so blinded by your bias you can't even follow logical arguments.

what research have you done exactly? denying the very fact that f2p games can and often do compete with paid games as clearly shown by several sources like steam and gaming trends? or the fact that you dont seem to bother understanding that there are tons of f2p games that also use dedicated servers? 

1 hour ago, FlusteredFerret said:

Another assumption. If you'd even bothered to check Leyou's website, you would see that DE are just one of half a dozen companies on their gaming portfolio, the others being Athlon Gaming, Certain Affinity, Splash Damage and Changyou.

Leyou is a Hong Kong based company and so I would imagine their primary area of interest would be the Chinese market (over 1bn Chinese, compared to 400m or so North Americans).

and if you bothered to actually research as you claimed you did, you would understand that warframe IS their flagship product. thats the biggest purchase leyou did, and the game grew extremely fast since then. and its not like warframe isnt being played in china. it very much is. 

stuff like this clearly shows why forums will never be more than a vast minority in the community of this game. 

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Posted (edited)
On 2019-01-07 at 9:24 AM, _Dan said:

This has been on the front page for close to a week now, DE really doesn't give 2 S#&$s about this do they lol

Do you understand how the forums or feedback works? This isn't even in the correct sub forum if your intent was to create feedback.

But most importantly this thread does not contain any feedback. The overwhelming majority of these nine pages are people making complaints about connection quality, making surface comparisons of Warframe's connection quality to other games, attacking people and making assumptions about their "internet credentials", and people assuming DE's financial status.

Honestly I'm more surprised the forum mods allowed this thread to go on for this long.

Edited by trst
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There is an option to increase or decrease your Matchmaking Ping Limit under OPTIONS>GAMEPLAY 

(Apologies if this was mentioned already)


Concerning dedicated servers, they are not something we are planning at this time for regular matchmaking.

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19 minutes ago, [DE]Drew said:

There is an option to increase or decrease your Matchmaking Ping Limit under OPTIONS>GAMEPLAY 

Doesn't this only apply to the "Warning: XXX Ping Detected" message? I feel like I still get placed in 700+ms ping missions while my limit is 150.

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Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, [DE]Drew said:

There is an option to increase or decrease your Matchmaking Ping Limit under OPTIONS>GAMEPLAY 

(Apologies if this was mentioned already)


Concerning dedicated servers, they are not something we are planning at this time for regular matchmaking.

Thanks Drew! For those of us that have no idea what "matchmaking Ping Limit' is or means can you let us know what increasing or decreasing that does? Because until this very post I have never heard the term. But I do have the capacity to understand how it works...I mean i guess I could research it, but if you could kindly....I would and maybe other people would appreciate it greatly.

 

Also I might add that I have not read this entire post nor do i want to. I only go on here to find out what Developers are saying and dont have the time or interest to read the horde of messages from other players, no offense. I saw this from latest staff replies. So I apologize if this term was defined or explained above.

Edited by (PS4)Derweanq

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16 minutes ago, (PS4)Derweanq said:

Thanks Drew! For those of us that have no idea what "matchmaking Ping Limit' is or means can you let us know what increasing or decreasing that does? Because until this very post I have never heard the term. But I do have the capacity to understand how it works...I mean i guess I could research it, but if you could kindly....I would and maybe other people would appreciate it greatly.

 

Also I might add that I have not read this entire post nor do i want to. I only go on here to find out what Developers are saying and dont have the time or interest to read the horde of messages from other players, no offense. I saw this from latest staff replies. So I apologize if this term was defined or explained above.

It simply means the limit of ping you will connect to. If you set to 150 you won't connect to a host with more than 150 ping.

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