Haven't you guys made enough money at this point to have dedicated servers?

[genclaymore]

The Dedicated server option in the launcher options is for PVP only, not PVE. That was something they added in 2016 to help with conclave game mode.

[Learicorn]

Not just host migrations, the ping is really bad too lol. Im always playing at at least 200+ ms

[kubbi]

8 hours ago, _Dan said:

My tone is like this because it seems when ever anyone makes a suggestion on this forum about basic things that need fixing an army of people with thousands of post jump to DE's defense with illogical and backwards thinking because they are so invested and just blind to the issues of this game, it's like a cult, really odd.

This is one of the main reasons I stopped participating the forums the last year. People making valid complaints or providing feedback instantly get jumped by fanboys. Like dont get me wrong they're great developers but they're also human and make mistakes. Complaints need to be heard and there's always room for feedback.

Now back on topic, maybe its an idea to have some dedicated servers on places where net connection generally is bad and start from there and observe how that works out.

[_Dan]

Yeah I have no problem with de at all, warframe is easily my fav and most played game! but for sure the player base is hyper defensive when it comes to anything criticising it. 

Just really wish DE could shed some light on if they have plans to fix it, if at all. Because connection issues are really way too frequent at this point. I could imagine it putting off new players who are less forgiving and not used to losing hours of their time, just doesn't happen in other games..

Without sounding too dramatic it could really damage the future of the game imo, and it seems to have got worse over time. 

[dreadgame]

10 hours ago, Corvid said:

Obvious question: What happens if more than one person in the squad has it enabled?

They wouldn't be able to play with each other. Seems reasonable imo

[IIDMOII]

I don't really buy into the lack of dedis as a cost thing anymore.

There are indie amateur devs providing dedis for their games on a shoestring or non existent budget. There are privately run servers for millions of games and world's. 

If you want to run a successful service based game in 2019, I don't think a proper backend is too much to ask here. The service is as much the product as the game is.

So far the service aspect of this game has been non existent. All the service is at our expense. Piggy backing on our bandwidth to deliver their game. 

I tend to agree with the op. Being in the steam top 5 since it's release, constantly selling bundles for far more than a AAA game. I find it hard to believe they don't have the capital to reinvest in their backend. 

Paying kyle the intern to make ugly corpus lockers seems more important I guess.

Edited January 1, 2019 by IIDMOII

[(XBOX)Eminem2420]

Dedicated servers are very expensive, and you need to keep in mind that you need to perform regular maintenance on them, which costs more money.  Its not like you can just flip a switch and be done with it. Its not as nearly as simple as you are making it out to be. I also think subscriptions would be a huge mistake. Why do you want to split the community even more than it already is? Elitism is rampant enough without BS subscription services. 

[(XBOX)Eminem2420]

7 minutes ago, _Dan said:

Yeah I have no problem with de at all, warframe is easily my fav and most played game! but for sure the player base is hyper defensive when it comes to anything criticising it. 

Just really wish DE could shed some light on if they have plans to fix it, if at all. Because connection issues are really way too frequent at this point. I could imagine it putting off new players who are less forgiving and not used to losing hours of their time, just doesn't happen in other games..

Without sounding too dramatic it could really damage the future of the game imo, and it seems to have got worse over time. 

 

1 hour ago, kubbi said:

This is one of the main reasons I stopped participating the forums the last year. People making valid complaints or providing feedback instantly get jumped by fanboys. Like dont get me wrong they're great developers but they're also human and make mistakes. Complaints need to be heard and there's always room for feedback.

Now back on topic, maybe its an idea to have some dedicated servers on places where net connection generally is bad and start from there and observe how that works out.

This narrative that anybody that doesn't agree with your post is automatically a white knight is simply false. You act like people don't criticize DE at all, which is simply untrue. All you gotta do is look at the feedback section. Plenty of people have valid criticism aimed at DE. I think your aggressive tone is making people very defensive. It is not that people necessarily disagree with what you are saying, but the way you are saying it. The way you present a topic massively influences how people interpret it. 

[(XBOX)Skiller115]

I honestly don't care if we're P2P or server based. I just don't want to lose my Kuva in Kuva surivial and onslaught bugging out when I'm trying to level!

I would perfer servers though

[trst]

The real questions that needs to be asked about this is if the switch would be worth the cost, not if DE can afford the cost.

Is potentially fixing a handful of minor connection issues at the cost of infrastructure, employees, and time worth it? How long would it take for the investment to pay off? Would switching even make a notable difference to the majority of players, if so then would it even bring in more players/money?

 

These aren't questions a handful of forum-goers are remotely capable of answering. These are major financial decisions that DE and DE alone is capable of making and needs to be made with data that only DE has possession of.

[Viges]

Sorry but money spent already https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2018-09-04-theres-a-new-free-to-play-aaa-lord-of-the-rings-mmo-in-the-works

 

[(PSN)Silverback73]

18 hours ago, NocheLuz said:

Even with Dedicated server. You're still looking for constant 200+ ping there and you still have a decent chance of disconnected from the server. Even ifthey did place server on all over the world. Because how DE done with having one server that saved all data and not distributed to each region. It'll still have problem with saving data from Dedicated server into main server.

Likely this.  DE probably ran the numbers and the small increase in performance would be incredibly expensive and do very little to solve the problems you are experiencing.

[Toppien]

i wish we had dedicated servers, my internet connection has inexistent upload speed, i cant host any game cuz people inmediately start whining about how much lag they have, even "report host for screwing my experience" ¬¬

i must suffer everytime im looking for a group, cuz i have to avoid being the host for everyones sake

[nslay]

I just experienced this host migration issue in a Corpus survival mission! After migration, the map state somehow changed to lock down and all the life support modules and the extraction point were beyond a locked door. However, there were no active terminals anywhere to unlock this door. So neither the life support modules nor extraction point were reachable! So us remaining 3 players all died and had to abandon the mission.

How does the map state change in a migration? Is it correct to assume that players host the map, game state and content rather than a trusted server? Does that mean a malicious/troll host could modify the map state or was this a bug?

[(XBOX)Blueberry2006]

Wow... folks really dont seem to understand how so many of these issues are not controllable by DE yet alone any developer.

 

1) PING

You got a good ping, huh? I'm sorry to inform you that's only 1 metric of MANY that defines a "solid and fast connection"

2) SYSTEM HARDWARE

Everyone's system hardware is identical, right? Well, obviously not... yes, even you console players. Your hard drive, RAM, and even your GPU likely did not even come out of the factory the same week or month. Not only that, but magnetic storage (hard drives) are hardly infallible. If a host has a harddrive that suddenly decides(determined may be a better word) it needs to relocate a bad sector, bam... instant lag. Same goes for clients on that same session.

3) NETWORK HARDWARE

Do not even get me started on network hardware. Also consider geographic locations. Packets traveling from US->Australlia and US->Asia will more than likely travel routes. Some of that is your ISP, some of it is just bad routing, and the list the goes on.

How about that 10yr old switch you've got burried in your closet? What about your router? Hoes does it do with blufferboat? How many ms till it drops a stale packet or connection? How often is your roomate buffering up some spank bank in 4k?

Oh cool, you got a 100ft LAN cable for $5? Nevermind the fact the cable runs across the microwave, the surround sound receiver and your 1000watt blender, there is no way it could cause problems, right?

4) NOTHING IS PERFECT

Your XBOX or PS4 has never crashed? You must be special.

5) DEDICATED SERVERS

Even if the game were to go server based, which I believe would cause more issues particularly for those attempting to play with friends overseas, what happens when a server inevitably has a crash/failure of it's own? Everyone on that server would be effectively kicked/dropped from their session.

 

Let me be clear, I dont absolve DE of any or all faults, but in most situations these problems are due to an outside influence.

 

Need help? First step, IMO, get your network in check. Watching netflix is not the same thing as an hour long survival run, so please dont use that as a defense. Second step, tell your friends it's time to ditch the AIO(modem/router/wifi) combo their ISP gave or charges them for. They simply cannot and do not get patched or maintained properly for the ever-evolving internet.

Apologies for run-ons and rants.

If you truly need help, feel free to contact me. I'll do my best to assist in resolving/identifying issues. Please bear in mind... Dont expect an immediate response - I do have a full time job and a family.

[LSG501]

LOL at players wanting dedicated servers to stop 'connection to host has been lost'.... you do realise at the most basic level that you'll be using the exact same type of connection to a server as you would to another player meaning having dedicated servers does not guarantee that you won't still lose connection. 

[_Dan]

5 minutes ago, (XB1)Blueberry2006 said:

Snip

Lol ^ so you're trying to tell me you've never once had any network issues / drop outs or game related bugs due to hosting issues and Wf's outdated p2p and all user related?. 

[N2h2]

Problem is, this is not just about connexion/

I have a really good computer, but doomed with an ADSL connexion even while living in a huge city, i'm simply not eligible for a batter connexion. Decent for small missions, totally trash if there are a lot of spawn/ effect, things to sync between player, simply because the game is requiring far too much uploaded data from host to client, and ADSL cannot handle this large ammount.

On the other hand, connexion is not the only issue, I have friends with really good connexion. but playing on potaoes made laptops. And they simply cannot host anything without ruining everybody experience. Because you have decent ping with terrible "server" that cannot handle hosting. Being able to transfert milions of kbites of data is usless when your computer cannot handle a cent of what it's able to sent/receive. what happen when i play with them? 50 ms ping to host, but impossible to use transferance, need 5 sec to deplay archgun (when it's deploying because most of the time, it's simply not working), dying without any reason, getting stuck or unable to use skills...


Actually things get really worst with orb fight, because it's pushing pretty hard on processor to handle that. Even with good connexion, some people are just terrible host regarding that.


It have already been stated that having dedicated server isn't actually an option.
But Maybe some tweaks and improvments could be done regarding optimisations. Because actually orbfight biggest issue seems not related to internet speed limitation, more how hard it's melting some low/mid end computers.

P2P or server hosted game for my 15 year of playing MMO give same results,  some people will have issue with first solution, other will have with second one. that won't help everybody, for you it may be worst. But asking for optimisation can be a thing.
Actually i didn't get any orbfight running smooth, when it's totally flawless alone, as soon as there are other player with me, Host or client, there are issue, and not alway with ping...

Soo let see if they can fix things after theire vacations.


On THE OP side, be careful, if your statments are true (living in asis, not many player there...) guess where server will be the most? US, CANADA, Europe, so you'll be more f***ed than helped by dedicated servers.
So you would have bad ping playing with european and american people still, but also playing with your neighbore.



 

[_Dan]

6 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

LOL at players wanting dedicated servers to stop 'connection to host has been lost'.... you do realise at the most basic level that you'll be using the exact same type of connection to a server as you would to another player meaning having dedicated servers does not guarantee that you won't still lose connection. 

I know one thing. I have been playing online games for over 10 years. And not once. Have I ever experienced these issues in any other game at all. 

The problem lies here with this game. It's as simple as that. I have read sooooo many threads with people having the exact same issues.

Edited January 2, 2019 by _Dan

[LSG501]

1 minute ago, N2h2 said:

Actually things get really worst with orb fight, because it's pushing pretty hard on processor to handle that. Even with good connexion, some people are just terrible host regarding that.
 

Don't go blaming that all on the host, the code for orb fight is pretty poor when it comes to optimisation... I've had 'lag comments' and I'm on 80/20 fibre and running a system more than capable of hosting without issue (i7, 16gb ram etc)

[LSG501]

1 minute ago, _Dan said:

I kbow one thing. I have been playing online games for over 10 years. And not once. Have I ever experienced these issues in any other game at all. 

The problem lies here with this game. It's as sinple as that. I have read sooooo many threads with people having the exact same issues. This is a problem. This thread has made 3 pages super fast as people agree and are sick of it. 

While I'm not saying there aren't issues it's nowhere near as bad as you make out for me (I'm in the UK which has a fairly good infrastructure) and you also completely missed my point, there is nothing to say that servers would fix your issue with disconnections when as you said yourself your countries internet is pretty bad...it is at the end of the day it's fundamentally going to be using a 'p2p' connection to connect you to a server along with several hundred, maybe even thousand other players....actually thinking about it the amount of bandwidth, let alone processing power needed to run the game in it's current format would be insane.

[N2h2]

il y a 13 minutes, LSG501 a dit :

Don't go blaming that all on the host, the code for orb fight is pretty poor when it comes to optimisation... I've had 'lag comments' and I'm on 80/20 fibre and running a system more than capable of hosting without issue (i7, 16gb ram etc)

did you read all my post or just that... I already told optimisation is a real issue about that. So no I'm not blaming all on the host, mostly when I already know My internet isn't good enought to host with 10ms ping.
 

 

il y a 15 minutes, N2h2 a dit :

But Maybe some tweaks and improvments could be done regarding optimisations.
 

If I said I never get a smooth run while in party, that not I'm blaming everybody being a bad host. Maybe It may be understood as, there are a real issue regarding game optimization, as I doubt 100% of warframe players got either a bad computer or connexion...
Mostly when you have no issue with some host running MOT for 3h and same party is having real performances issue far a 2 min spider kill.


OFC there are serious issues to be fixed. We all in my clan noticed since last patch, You got some freezes each time you open your mod inventory in orbiter or try to open "MODS" when trading, which has never been an issue for us in the past.

Edited January 2, 2019 by N2h2

[Zeclem]

people who think that decicated servers would do too little for their cost are clearly wrong. proof is can anybody tell me how much p2p multiplayer triple a games exist in todays gaming? (before anybody says anything, yes, warframe is a triple a game in terms of popularity, quality and developer size in the market). 

its clearly something that works, and works well. if that wasnt the case companies wouldnt invest in them all over the place. if you want an example of the increase in games quality, look at for honor. it started as a p2p game, and switched to dedicated servers which caused massive increases in its player count over time and in game quality. sure, its not perfect still and it wont ever be. but its miles better than what it was. and before anybody says "its not a f2p game", that game costs pennies and doesnt have excessively overpriced bundles like warframe does. 

Edited January 2, 2019 by Zeclem

[FlusteredFerret]

12 hours ago, trst said:

The real questions that needs to be asked about this is if the switch would be worth the cost, not if DE can afford the cost.

Is potentially fixing a handful of minor connection issues at the cost of infrastructure, employees, and time worth it? How long would it take for the investment to pay off? Would switching even make a notable difference to the majority of players, if so then would it even bring in more players/money?

 

These aren't questions a handful of forum-goers are remotely capable of answering. These are major financial decisions that DE and DE alone is capable of making and needs to be made with data that only DE has possession of.

Indeed.

Plus there is the possibility that some players with relatively poor connections actually enjoy improved playing experiences when being hosted by players with better connections.

Whereas if they had to connect to DE server(s) that might be on the other side of the world to them, they might start experiencing horrible ping rates, lag, packet loss etc.

 

Overall I think its something I would like to see DE invest in, as host migration crashes are a problem unique to Warframe (in my experience) and can be immensely frustrating.

However, it would be extremely naive of people to think this would solve all problems, as even games with dedicated servers still have plenty of issues.

 

Edited January 2, 2019 by FlusteredFerret

[SirTobe]

Nah, I don't think it is needed in most cases, and the cost would certainly not be worth it. It may be a good idea for certain types of missions, open world, and events, but not for everything. In the end however the current system will keep the development of the game alive much longer. 

Main problems imo are messed up host migrations and poorly managed connections. These are things that can still be much improved without having to go full dedicated servers. There are obviously bugs in these systems that needs to be sorted out. Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't. 

This is also something they should keep in mind when designing gamemodes. In Arbitrations for example it tends to be a huge pain, as people disconnect when the die. Especially considering these are always endless missions, there's often 20+ minutes of loot and awards invested, and that you have to wait for next hour for another mission, which may not even be a type of mission you like. This is a case where dedicated servers could be a better idea. The traffic wouldn't be too crazy either since the gamemode is restricted to players who have finished the whole starmap.

Edited January 2, 2019 by SirTobe