Titania & Nyx Rework Feedback & Opinion

[DustyFlash]

Titania

Spellbind: Unchanged, still pushes enemies when you shot them, making them harder to kill, its only beneficial when you want to cut down on the enemy dps temporarily, status immunity is still nice. I would make it so the enemies float but are stationary and don't get pushed away OR make them immobilized OR make the duration on the enemy shorter so they fall off and have to pick their weapons, keeping the status immunity the same duration.

Tribute: Changed, tribute buffs no longer need to be stacked 5x to get the full benefit, very welcome, however, Dust (we don't even know if Dust actually helps or works) and Entangle are not very good, same for Full Moon and Thorns which will prove worthless 90% of the time, I would suggest changing these to something more useful for titania such as a speed buff or mobility buff, etc or making Dust work properly. (Especially Thorns, as Titania will probably get snap-ed out of existence by a melee attacker if she ever does get hit by a melee attack from anything that isn't infested)

Lantern: Changed, lantern count increased to 4, and now they "float" back to their position, however they float so slowly back that their duration is gonna expire by then, also they don't even distract enemies anymore, making it just a funny looking ability rather than a useful one. I would make it so the enemies are tethered as mentioned in the original rework post and it should also be checked as to why its so inconsistent.

Energy Went up, a very welcome change.

Razorwing: Vacuum was added, very welcome, it makes energy management in Razorwing much much less painful, a welcome change.

Also, for all of her abilities, their casting speed should be doubled, as currently some feel as slow as Shadows of the Dead.

EDIT: Dust seems to be mostly pointless as well after a bit of reading through opinions, as enemy AI will be forced to hit you regardless of how inaccurate you make them be, the only reason Razorwings dodge capabilities work is because Razorwing has a much smaller hitbox.

Nyx

Mind Control: Enemies can now be shot to deal increased damage, it sounds really good on paper, especially since you can get a 1100% damage buff on an enemy, however they are no longer status immune, making them get cc-ed very easily by Impact, Heat, Cold and Blast procs, cutting their dps massively. I would add their status immunity back, unless this is just a bug.

Psychic Bolts: Extremely effective now, only downside is that the Dispel on hold is really slow. All I would want changed for this ability would be for the dispel to be faster and the number of targets affected to be increased by Power Strength, seeing as its the only ability that benefits Power Strength it would only be fair (No, absorb doesn't count and you know it).

Chaos: Unchanged 😞

Absorb: Damage is now based on the damage type the enemies are dealing, this is an unwelcome change as in some cases it could deal less damage depending on the damage resistances of the enemy, the damage released on Absorb was never good anyway, only the cc of it is all that matters. I would change it to a strong confusion/stun on discharge to allow for some time to get out of the heat of combat.

Passive Got Changed: Enemies now miss Nyx more often, but not that often, the previous Passive where it would disarm enemies was really good compared to the current "increased dodge chance" I know the intention here is for the enemies to kill each other with their guns, but honestly their melee weapons will deal much more damage than their actual guns in most cases.

Edited January 3, 2019 by DustyFlash
Changed dust and Tribute

[Roboplus]

Chaos only costs 75 energy.

[WhimsicalPacifist]

2 hours ago, DustyFlash said:

Titania

EDIT: Unsure if this is true, but since enemies already kind of miss 50% of their shots already, Dust doesn't really do much as the enemies will still land their shot 50% of the time, I don't know whats up with this, it could be that they have it forced in their AI to land 50% of the time, but idk.

 

This is a fairly undocumented area.  Armor scaling/damage scaling is very transparent.  But accuracy?  All the Wiki gives is:  https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Accuracy#Enemy_Accuracy

Community effort on clarifying the mechanic amounts to a grand total of three videos by x3lp:

Spoiler

First 2 Videos Deal with Weapon Accuracy, In Titania he touches upon enemy accuracy

 

 

 

Aside from that there is an unresolved debate on if enemies get more accurate as levels scale up.

 

[DustyFlash]

3 hours ago, Roboplus said:

Chaos only costs 75 energy.

I could swear it cost 100, oh well. Thanks for the notice.

[Xzorn]

4 hours ago, WhimsicalPacifist said:

This is a fairly undocumented area.  Armor scaling/damage scaling is very transparent.  But accuracy?  All the Wiki gives is:  https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Accuracy#Enemy_Accuracy

Community effort on clarifying the mechanic amounts to a grand total of three videos by x3lp:

  Hide contents

First 2 Videos Deal with Weapon Accuracy, In Titania he touches upon enemy accuracy

 

 

I think he might have also been unaware that Titania's Razorwing hit box is off which causes enemies like the Derra Lancer to miss her forever regardless.

However if you compare that with the Dust buff of -50% out of Razorwing there is nearly no difference if at all and they're both -50% debuffs

As he mentioned the Enemy pretends to miss you. I believe it does this by circling the player's hitbox while firing. When there's a sudden change in the player's vector or velocity the AI attempts to compensate which makes you harder to hit but if you sit in one place in razorwing or out of razorwing you can watch a Corrupted Lancer hit the exact same spots on the wall behind you. There is no variation other than the order the shots will hit those exact spots.

This plays a large role in why I believe reduced Accuracy doesn't really work and even if it did work the enemy is not always aiming at you in the first place. A miss becomes a hit and vise versa. There's also of course enemies in the game who could care less about accuracy and the increase in AoE Nyx has to deal with since she can't disarm.

[XenMaster]

Nyx need to gain "command" mechanic on the psychic bolts.

 

Psychic boltd debuff has duration which can be used for command.

 

This mechanic only work for Mind Control and Chaos, which tell all of them to attack the debuffed targets and quickly dispatch them since they are weakened. The mechanic also overrides all whatever Mindcontrol/Chaos target is doing, which causing them to obey Nyx until any of these three abilities run out of duration.

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

I like the direction Nyx's "rework" took her.  I just don't think it was enough.  It certainly won't be bringing any new Nyx fans and as for current fans of her the opinion is pretty divided.  Both frames deserved more than what was essentially a passing glance from the devs attention.  I get that they are always trying to work on new content but at the same time if they're not going to dedicate the time to wrap with fans about frames and really do work on them then they shouldn't even bother with reworks.  ALL frames deserve the kind of love that Saryn has gotten with her second rework.  Rant aside:

~Mind control:  Solid change.  But irritating to have to stop and shoot constantly in extended runs.  AI is still poor.  I think Nyx should be able to hold cast with mind control which lets allies pump more damage into the target and also ramp up the duration of the mind control.  Mindfreak augment should probably change.  And AI should lose it's defensive coding when controlled so it doesn't do stupid things like take cover.

~Bolts:  The remove effect shouldn't even be a thing.  Purely exists so it's basically not treated like ashe's utility shuriken.  the time should be cut in half and we should be casting more bolts.  Also give it nekros's shadows target picking ability if possible.  Currently bolt's augment is dead in the water due to not being able to spam out bolts.

~Chaos:  fine as is.  Doesn't need to be touched.

~Absorb:  either needs to be replaced with a new ability or needs to go back to the drawing board.  It's got one niche use which is not a good thing for a frames ultimate ability.  Players need a better incentive to use absorb.  The damage change ultimately doesn't matter because scaling armor is a thing.  Not that it should have been a solution to begin with because She's not a damage frame.  They seemingly understood this by removing the damage on her bolts.  Yet they try to bolster it on absorb?  Again.  Just shows this was a passing glance and not a true rework.  Insulting.

[Xzorn]

7 hours ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

~Bolts:  The remove effect shouldn't even be a thing.  Purely exists so it's basically not treated like ashe's utility shuriken.  the time should be cut in half and we should be casting more bolts.  Also give it nekros's shadows target picking ability if possible.  Currently bolt's augment is dead in the water due to not being able to spam out bolts.

 

It's a little silly they seem worried about Nyx stripping more than 6 enemies at a time when frames like Octavia have the Infinity Gauntlet.

Nyx also has to sacrifice a lot to go from 40% to 130% Power Strength.

----

As a side note. I didn't play Titania much due to Vacuum. Her Tribute was near worthless but it was her inability to collect energy orbs in flight that turned me away. Her Dex Pixia are just massive DPS. I'm not 100% on board with them being Pistol modded instead of Rifle due to no longer having easy access to Punch-Through but they're stronger overall so I also can't complain much. The augment when mixed with 1 spam is also just nuts.

The whole floating mechanic to her abilities is kinda just a nuisance. I would prefer enemies simply hover stationary about 5m above their previous location. Kinda like a Rhino stomp with higher altitude or Trinity's Well of Life. I don't know anyone who wants them floating around the room. If we want better position we'll just cast it again.

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

11 hours ago, Xzorn said:

 

It's a little silly they seem worried about Nyx stripping more than 6 enemies at a time when frames like Octavia have the Infinity Gauntlet.

Nyx also has to sacrifice a lot to go from 40% to 130% Power Strength.

----

As a side note. I didn't play Titania much due to Vacuum. Her Tribute was near worthless but it was her inability to collect energy orbs in flight that turned me away. Her Dex Pixia are just massive DPS. I'm not 100% on board with them being Pistol modded instead of Rifle due to no longer having easy access to Punch-Through but they're stronger overall so I also can't complain much. The augment when mixed with 1 spam is also just nuts.

The whole floating mechanic to her abilities is kinda just a nuisance. I would prefer enemies simply hover stationary about 5m above their previous location. Kinda like a Rhino stomp with higher altitude or Trinity's Well of Life. I don't know anyone who wants them floating around the room. If we want better position we'll just cast it again.

I think it's a mixture of trying to make it a functional ability but still unique compared to other armor strip abilities.  The whole rework just reeks of "do something" so people can stop complaining about Nyx being ignored.  I bet there were tons of great ideas that were pitched to DE to replace bolts with something else but DE was not wanting to do too much before they went on vacation.  I wasn't a fan of this change to begin with.  Sure it's functionally good and i'm not saying I enjoyed old bolts...but thematically stripping enemy defense just doesn't feel psyhic to me.

As far as Titania goes I actually enjoy the physics of enemies floating about.  But I understand how that can be detremental to other players gameplay.

[N2h2]

Well, My personal opinion is that bolt on nyx is actually great like that, except the time you have to maintain it to remove this skill. It's still really powerful and instantly remove 100% armor at 130% strength, which is already great.

I'm more worried about her 4 wich is totally usless if you don't use here augment mod, which is eating one slot. It's usefull with augment mod, not for the damage, but as a panic button or a thing that give you the opportunity to face tank a really powerfull npc time to rmove his armor...
Without augment mod it's as trash as before.
Maybe I would find it better if at least that augment could match in exilus slot, but actually it's a sacrifice to get that skill usefull, but stil dispointing regarding utility as you can move at the speed of a slug...
 

Edited January 2, 2019 by N2h2

[Xzorn]

17 minutes ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

I think it's a mixture of trying to make it a functional ability but still unique compared to other armor strip abilities.  The whole rework just reeks of "do something" so people can stop complaining about Nyx being ignored.  I bet there were tons of great ideas that were pitched to DE to replace bolts with something else but DE was not wanting to do too much before they went on vacation.  I wasn't a fan of this change to begin with.  Sure it's functionally good and i'm not saying I enjoyed old bolts...but thematically stripping enemy defense just doesn't feel psyhic to me.

As far as Titania goes I actually enjoy the physics of enemies floating about.  But I understand how that can be detremental to other players gameplay.

 

There's been some good ideas before and after. Like having bolts disable Eximus auras. Personally I think her Bolts are worse now than before partially due to her passive and also due to the Bolts augment which would stun around 50% of the map by spamming it. Even their base Rad status with superior range to Chaos made that ability worth while to use during a Chaos to touch up CC adds.

Armor stripping 6 enemies at a time isn't a fair trade for that, esp when it costs vital Power Range. They pretty much ruined her Pacifying Bolts augment and her Passive is also worse for keeping herself and the team / objective safe. Chaos is a distance game and disarmed enemies running up to others made it a lot easier to play.

If they were trying to make Nyx more appealing I think they failed miserably. She's no longer trading blows with Loki for the top spot as a CC frame and she's not a particularly good debuff frame either. The only good thing they did for her was Mind Control and realistically Mind Control just isn't much of a game changing ability. It's still mostly utility and distraction like it's always been. Sure she'll get an extra kill or two now but that's not her thing. She's a CC frame. There's no reason to make her anything else esp if trying to do so costs her that CC functionality.

Loki is the best CC frame now. I argued with people for years over it. Nyx was on par. You just had to work it and use all her abilities but I can't argue anymore.

[ArcKnight9202]

With sufficiently strong weapons and mods, the current Psychic Bolts is completely meaningless. Especially when you factor in Toxin completely bypasses shields. Anything with sufficiently powerful armor can be ripped to pieces with Shattering Impact and a fast weapon like a dagger or Shaku. This is, of course, if you even bother to strip the armor in the first place. Often, it doesn't matter. The only times I ever bothered with that were Sortie Assassinations and it's hardly even necessary then.

To address the point of having lots of feedback: Yes, there's a lot of stuff in that Dev Workshop thread but it was almost entirely ignored. The only thing they picked out was to turn off her new passive during Absorb. It's so disappointing.

[Duality52]

On 2019-01-01 at 9:10 AM, DustyFlash said:

Dust and Entangle are very effective,

I strongly disagree with that considering that:

• Not sure about scaling enemy accuracy, but I would not rely on that nor entirely on Razorwing just to survive higher levels.
• Entangle only affects movement speed, not all other kinds of movement like shooting, reloading. Think of Nova's Molecular Prime.
• None of the auras scale with mods, considering Entangle's low range of 10 m.

One thing to add is, even though this has been repeated too many times that it probably has been ignored for two years now: the casting animation speeds should not be that slow. There is not a single good reason as to why the animations are that sluggish.

[DustyFlash]

3 hours ago, Duality52 said:

I strongly disagree with that considering that:

• Not sure about scaling enemy accuracy, but I would not rely on that nor entirely on Razorwing just to survive higher levels.
• Entangle only affects movement speed, not all other kinds of movement like shooting, reloading. Think of Nova's Molecular Prime.
• None of the auras scale with mods, considering Entangle's low range of 10 m.

One thing to add is, even though this has been repeated too many times that it probably has been ignored for two years now: the casting animation speeds should not be that slow. There is not a single good reason as to why the animations are that sluggish.

Fair enough. I'll edit my post with that in mind.

[XstryderX]

psychic bolts augments should also increased the affected targets from 6~18(depends on power str, 6 being normal @ 100%)