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(PS4)LoisGordils

Nekros' Soul Punch Should Insta-Kill

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Similar to how Garuda rips out a foe's life force, killing the enemy instantly if they're at 40% health or less... I feel as if Nekros' Soul Punch, which literally rips the soul out of the enemy's body, should instantly kill at a certain threshold. Additionally, the extracted soul of a slain enemy flies in the opposite direction and deals X% of the enemy's health to all caught in the soul's path. 

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I kid you not, I had a similar idea yesterday. Except I was thinking of making it an augment whereby it insta-kills but costs double the amount of energy. But then I thought that it could be easily abused and decided to just forget it.

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41 minutes ago, (PS4)LoisGordils said:

Similar to how Garuda rips out a foe's life force, killing the enemy instantly if they're at 40% or less... I feel as if Nekros' Soul Punch, which literally rips the soul out of the enemy's body, should instantly kill at a certain threshold. Additionally, the extracted soul of a slain enemy flies in the opposite direction and deals X% of the enemy's health to all caught in the soul's path. 

Personally id rather it simply deal around 7% max hp as initial damage and keep the derpy soul projectile for the sake of the ragdoll fun, tho it does have a weird bug with said soul space launch where if you send a enemy into the roof or some object and their soul doesnt get canceled due to the angle from you to not being too high, the target takes fall/collision damage for ungodly amounts if they hit the roof before the soul expires but they fall after it does (thankfully its almost impossible to reproduce/happens at best 1/10000 times when playing with Tenno Space Program 3.0).

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1 hour ago, Andele3025 said:

Personally id rather it simply deal around 7% max hp as initial damage and keep the derpy soul projectile for the sake of the ragdoll fun, tho it does have a weird bug with said soul space launch where if you send a enemy into the roof or some object and their soul doesnt get canceled due to the angle from you to not being too high, the target takes fall/collision damage for ungodly amounts if they hit the roof before the soul expires but they fall after it does (thankfully its almost impossible to reproduce/happens at best 1/10000 times when playing with Tenno Space Program 3.0).

Wow 7%. A whole 7%. That’s so much. I can’t believe how much that is. May enemies tremble in fear as I take away 7% of their life force away.

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I like this. 

Lately I've gotten really into playing Smite. I'm not much of a MOBA player, but it did occur to me that this game could really stand to have more of a MOBA style when it comes to balance where nothing ever becomes useless with level and the damage oriented characters that can't wipe the board should at least be great at dealing with single enemies. Obviously this is a very different game, but there can be a happy medium to work towards here.

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Augmented Soul Punch was good before Operators came around.

I supposed depending on the Operator's Arcanes it still has some value, to bad though. Ranged insta Rez was handy.

...before someone says "It should be good on it's own." Just look at the rest of Nekros, poor guy needs an augment to make 3/4 of his abilities good.

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47 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Wow 7%. A whole 7%. That’s so much. I can’t believe how much that is. May enemies tremble in fear as I take away 7% of their life force away.

Its a 1 skill, not his 4, also 7% hp on initial hit instead of 500 impact means not only means hypothetically infinite scaling (and 14~15.5% hp on a shadows build), but it would also be a rare case of the % damage being possible to spam reliably (assuming you have the energy) unlike oberon orbs which float about or having to take time as with hydroid. And remember its amazing space program cc.

Id say that having a reliable single target chunk compared to the soul (which is not only unreliable in how long it exists, what angle it takes and if you even want it as bothering to cast SP means you are reloading or got swarmed) dealing % damage would be a lot more reliable.

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1 hour ago, Andele3025 said:

Its a 1 skill, not his 4

oberon's smite does 35% of enemy health divided among the projectiles + base flat dmg

53 minutes ago, (PS4)LoisGordils said:

*laughs in Spores, Virulence & Dread Mirror*

also this

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2 hours ago, Andele3025 said:

Its a 1 skill, not his 4, also 7% hp on initial hit instead of 500 impact means not only means hypothetically infinite scaling (and 14~15.5% hp on a shadows build), but it would also be a rare case of the % damage being possible to spam reliably (assuming you have the energy) unlike oberon orbs which float about or having to take time as with hydroid. And remember its amazing space program cc.

Id say that having a reliable single target chunk compared to the soul (which is not only unreliable in how long it exists, what angle it takes and if you even want it as bothering to cast SP means you are reloading or got swarmed) dealing % damage would be a lot more reliable.

Having percent damage means absolutely nothing if it’s not significant. Also you’re arguing “It’s the first ability  it’s not suppose to significant stuff” while things like Garudas 1 and Nidus’s 1 exist.

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10 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Having percent damage means absolutely nothing if it’s not significant. Also you’re arguing “It’s the first ability  it’s not suppose to significant stuff” while things like Garudas 1 and Nidus’s 1 exist.

He literally wants to cast Soul Punch 14 times in order to kill one enemy lol. 7% HP is bad, instant-kill threshold is eons better 

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If you think 7% is bad, then deal 7% of enemy health as damage and reduce it by armour. You'll be lucky to deal 0.5% of targets hp if its Heavy Gunner lvl 40 or higher.

Nekros kit in general is super bad once you reach mr 20 and don't need any more rare resources. His 1 deals no damage and has no use, 2 costs too much to cast and more annoying then max range Limbo on defense mission, 3 is a toggle that you press once at the start of the mission, and his 4 is just attention seeking damage reduction that deals no damage and requires an augment - compared to Gara's 2, Mesa's 3, Rhino's 2, Nezha's 3, Nidus's 3 and more that require you to just press a button to either get invulnerability or 90% damage reduction, no augments needed.

And if you want to compare it to other frame's one as for power: Saryn, Gara, Khora, Nidus, Garuda, Mirage, Octavia and even Atlas, can kill higher level enemies and do it in an AoE. Nekros struggles to kill a level 40 Butcher.

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3 hours ago, TKDancer said:

oberon's smite does 35% of enemy health divided among the projectiles + base flat dmg

also this

Oberon projectiles need to actually hit the target back, isnt scaled by strength AND is subject to armor which SP shouldnt be (tho even then it doesnt matter that much as the only difference between a enemy with 100000 armor and 10 armor for nekros is energy and power strength and at the point where armor starts influencing weapons significantly enough you already cast terrify for the cc). BTW spores functionally is saryns ulti/4th slot in power, same for nidus where his 1 is the linchpin of his existence while garuda deals 10% hp with dread mirror which doesnt scale and the ball is there because her 4 needs to actually needs damage from somewhere for those slash procs to be of any use.

Also think about it, giving nekros a spammable 1 and making it truly always effective (7% at 100% strength actual hp damage to the target as long as its not invul, so be it eidolon, orb or level 8500 ancient protected heavy gunners it should lose between 2.8 to 15.5% max hp depending on what build one runs) in addition to the rest of the kit being decently solid (SoS really needs to be buffed to at least 7 if not 10% damage transfer while passive could be touched up to also give 1% lifesteal to him + to all allies within despoil range thus making a positive loop back to shadows) is already a lot as currently its a very average but decent single target cc. Forced instakill is just pointless with both current level scaling and frame arsenals as garuda 1 has proven.


In not so short: if you want SP to be generic enemy effect limited, there is no point in changing it. If you just want general use nekros buffs, its the shadow type priorities+ai, augments and passive (and maybe making terrify work like despoil where its a non-drain aura that doesnt stop energy regen effects but costs a small bit upon a enemy entering its area and getting feared and then would keep losing armor while in range at no additional energy cost) or QOL things like Health Conversion not being lost when jumping into AW which should be the touch up focus.

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10 minutes ago, Andele3025 said:

Oberon projectiles need to actually hit the target back, isnt scaled by strength AND is subject to armor which SP shouldnt be

they usually do unless they die, even if u applied 300% to 7% base u'd get 21%, that last bit would require more reworking of the ability

also nekros isnt really a power strength character

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I wouldn't mind if they just do some Utility with Soul Punch.

Have enemies who have been Punched prioritized on his pet list.

He holds their souls essentially and this effect persists after death so his pet list doesn't wipe every time he dies. The level of the enemy would be static just as his current pet summons are but this gives him the option of being a little more tactical in his pet choices. Each enemy can only be force summoned once in this manner.

Would help if they improve the augment as well. Like giving players 5 second immunity on revive.

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8 minutes ago, TKDancer said:

they usually do unless they die, even if u applied 300% to 7% base u'd get 21%, that last bit would require more reworking of the ability

also nekros isnt really a power strength character

If they are weak to puncture, solo and not in a hallway, yes, but letting nekros deal 7% max hp true damage which does a vulnerability check (white a tiny bit sp script reworking as enemies that are usually not effected by abilities dont due to via actual immunity but not being a valid target), but point stands his 1 doesnt need much. Even if it did 0 upfront damage/just 50+100+fall damage, the ragdoll/BEGONE slap it provides is perfectly solid.

And Nekros really isnt a anything but survive+Despoil in terms of stat options (why i said some other touch ups like him having innate 1% universal lifesteal and giving it to allies in despoil would be a better general nekros buff), but strength is equal to range (it providing terrify+beef on shadows while high range is not effective for despoil as its still hardcapped with the corpse timer).

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I guess they could let him charge up soul punch, for rapidly increasing energy cost.

That could be cool, when I played Nekros soul punch felt pretty random, but it was useful.

I mainly used it outside of proper fights to fling people around 🤷🏻‍♂️

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I think soul punch should act like how it did in the trailer.  Like if the enemy has less than 40% of hp left or something you can soul punch them and it will be added to your shadow army instead of killing the enemy, waiting for a shadow to die to recast to add in the new enemy mob.  Inversely, instead of having to wait for a shadow to die we can either;

A.  Soul punch a shadow to get rid of it to make room for the new one

B.  Soul punch killing will add the new shadow and replace the weakest shadow in terms of hp or enemy tier list

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Oberon projectiles need to actually hit the target back, isnt scaled by strength AND is subject to armor which SP shouldnt be (tho even then it doesnt matter that much as the only difference between a enemy with 100000 armor and 10 armor for nekros is energy and power strength and at the point where armor starts influencing weapons significantly enough you already cast terrify for the cc).

Wait what? You're the first guy who said anything about it dealing 7% true damage, that's why everyone laughed when you brought it up since everyone assumed armour reduction. Also comparing Oberon Smite which deals damage to multiple enemies to a single target skill. What Smite also does, is causes an Puncture proc reducing enemy damage as well as has a guaranteed radiation proc on main target and good chance to proc radiation on others. Anyway, Oberon can strip all armour in 2 casts of his 4th ability so I'm not sure why are you comparing Oberon 1 to Nekros 1 and talk about armour? 

And no, Nekros should not cast Terrify for CC or armour strip. It's terrifyingly terrible. Nekros is only ever good in survivals, and in survivals you want enemies to come to you, not run away, because you want extra life support. Terrify is the worst skill that Nekros could possibly have. 

Quote

In not so short: if you want SP to be generic enemy effect limited, there is no point in changing it. If you just want general use nekros buffs, its the shadow type priorities+ai, augments and passive (and maybe making terrify work like despoil where its a non-drain aura that doesnt stop energy regen effects but costs a small bit upon a enemy entering its area and getting feared and then would keep losing armor while in range at no additional energy cost) or QOL things like Health Conversion not being lost when jumping into AW which should be the touch up focus.

Making Terrify work like Desecrate would mean that Nekros has only 1 active skill which does absolutely nothing other then some meme knockback, 2 toggles, and 1 skill that might as well be a toggle. No thanks. Also having enemies permanently running away from me when I Nekros is mainly used for the life support is the most idiotic idea ever.

What Nekros needs is a decent utility or damage from his 1. Needs a big buff to armour stripping on his 2 so that his Shadows can deal some damage and Creeping Terrify augment baked into it base skill, with new augment for his 2. He also needs his Shadows to deal a lot, a lot more damage since it takes around 10 seconds for 7 Shadows on a 215% strength build to kill a single enemy if they decide to focus fire, and that's lvl 30-40 enemies I'm talking about. It doesn't matter at all what Shadow picking priorities are since after lvl 40-50+, your minions will not die to enemy damage, and if its anything above level 20-30, your minions will be struggling to kill anything anyway. Priorities and AI won't change damage/eHP scaling.

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What if Soul punch, instead of acting like an arrow, caused the target to fall down flat for 10 seconds, and caused their soul to float above the body.

The soul would have all the remaining health the target did, but as soul it would have no armor or buffs.

So you would use it on troublesome units, like heavy gunners, bombards, ancient healers, as a way to CC the threat, but also make it a lot easier to kill them, while still being thematically appropriate.

 

Maybe killing the soul could return health to everyone nearby.

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What if Soul punch, instead of acting like an arrow, caused the target to fall down flat for 10 seconds, and caused their soul to float above the body.

The soul would have all the remaining health the target did, but as soul it would have no armor or buffs.

So you would use it on troublesome units, like heavy gunners, bombards, ancient healers, as a way to CC the threat, but also make it a lot easier to kill them, while still being thematically appropriate.

 

This sounds like an idea I also had but since then I've realized that a single target abilities are usually the worst ones in Warframe. Disabling 1 out of 30 targets just isn't good enough.

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It should really just one shot enemies, since it IS indeed single target and that is appropriate when it comes to punching an enemy's soul out. Plus you do know one shotting a random butcher or heavy gunner doesn't really do much, because it is just ... one enemy. It's a horde shooter game so whatever dies just gets replaced anyway. Ragdoll is simply the worst CC and Nekros has his 2 which does a much better job at getting rid of enemies.

Dealing 100% true damage won't even make the ability OP because you just deleted say, one bombard, while the other 3 shoot at you anyway and the heavy gunners continue to fire. Kill one infested healer? The other 10 will still chain ragdoll you anyway. Blew up a Nox? I didn't know the Nox was the most dangerous unit in the Grineer army because he certainly isn't. Killing a single target for 25 energy (or 6.25 with max eff) doesn't bring you anywhere. Getting rid of 1/30 enemies for some energy is hardly the most OP thing ever.

It would still be pointless at low level since other abilities also one hit and on an extreme survival level 1000 I doubt you'd take Nekros anyway. Making it 100% and a one shot for its current cost will make the ability somewhat situational and useful for getting rid of say, single hard targets and only getting rid of single hard targets. Which is a good thing to have.

It is not like Warframe abilities can work on most bosses and things that actually matter in the first place.

 

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