Please, Introduce Special Archwing Alerts

[MysticDragonMage]

one of the big problems with archwing is how it presents its own missions as regular nodes. they are nodes that reward less rewards than a regular on-foot node. you can increase the loot gained via warframe abilities on-foot, but you cannot do so in archwing. tellurium feels less exclusive to archwing because you can get more on Uranus. these missions are only really good for two things; fun and mastery. in terms of mastery, there is only replay-ability when DE becomes more motivated to add new arch-weapons and archwings.

Archwing deserves its own special alerts, similar to how fissures and invasions are featured. special alerts that appear more often and reward players with a variety of current in-game rewards for completing them multiple times (similar to how invasions work).

if possible, add archwing weapon parts from syndicates as well as one archwing (or all) from the dojos to the reward pool. building archwing weapons in particular has become very annoying because it requires the player to consistently betray and join all syndicates (which costs rare prime parts and Orokin C/R) and syndicates are not even at all related to archwing.

implementing this would, for one thing, apply replay-ability to archwing. not just because it is fun or gives mastery through ranking up arch-weapons, but because it would provide rewards players would need on a regular basis. second, this would introduce more mission difficulty variety, since the random alerts will have different levels of difficulty and match them with a random mission type. finally, progressing to owning an archwing will also feel more exclusive because only players who have archwings would have access to these alerts.

Edited January 4, 2019 by MysticDragonMage

[LSG501]

Think you might be mistaking the popularity of archwing in fortuna/PoE as meaning archwing in space is popular.... the problem is it doesn't correlate, fortuna/PoE archwing use is basically because it's quickest option rather than it being a 'good game mode' for most people.

Before DE should do more alerts for archwing (pretty sure they already do them..) they need to fix the issues that many players have with archwing in space/underwater...

[MysticDragonMage]

1 hour ago, LSG501 said:

Before DE should do more alerts for archwing (pretty sure they already do them..) they need to fix the issues that many players have with archwing in space/underwater..

such as the clunky movement, close quarter corpus and sealab maps, sluggish sharkwing, and lack of consistent content updates to archwing (weapons, archwings, and missions). its not like i'm not aware of this. but here's the thing:

why should they take the time to update these features if archwing has little to no replay-ability? i cannot confirm that devs have asked this question to themselves,

however, I can tell you that the community have asked for these things before the additions of pursuit, archwing augments, various weapons, the Amesha archwing, the archwing boss, etc etc. the broken movement system we are dealing with now was the result of multiple requests to update the first movement system. they were really dedicated to archwing content back then, but it all seemed to fail and development slowed down, resulting in a seemingly abandoned feature.

i personally believe that replay-ability was the main issue. because again, why dedicate so much time to polishing archwing content if there is no guarantee that people will continue to play that content. its not like the developers have given up, however. the result of this dedication was the introduction of archwing as a mounting mechanic on free-roam maps and the current in-development inclusion of archwing within rail-jack.

basically, the devs need more motivation to dedicate so much time to polishing a system that hardly anyone will play anyway. i think introducing special archwing alerts is a good and somewhat easy first step.

Edited January 3, 2019 by MysticDragonMage

[LSG501]

10 hours ago, MysticDragonMage said:

 

why should they take the time to update these features if archwing has little to no replay-ability?

and even adding in your 'events' would likely not change that....you don't exactly go doing invasions over and over once you have what you need from them (think the weapons)

[MysticDragonMage]

1 hour ago, LSG501 said:

and even adding in your 'events' would likely not change that....you don't exactly go doing invasions over and over once you have what you need from them (think the weapons)

even so, the special alerts (NOT events) would apply more mission difficulty variety and more exclusivity to owning an archwing. besides, saying that players conveniently have enough of these resources is an invalid argument because resources collected varies per person; the people who will play the alerts are the ones that dont have enough of these resources and you cant say that everyone has enough already. its not like these alerts will only drop fieldron and detonite injectors anyway. i'm also imagining the occasional orokin C/R, fissures, forma BP, etc. open your mind.

[LSG501]

Just now, MysticDragonMage said:

open your mind.

I have got an open mind but the simple fact is that people don't do space archwing so why waste dev time working on more stuff for it. 

[MysticDragonMage]

8 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

I have got an open mind but the simple fact is that people don't do space archwing so why waste dev time working on more stuff for it. 

I've already covered why people dont play space archwing: because of the lack of replay-ability, difficulty variety in certain missions, and exclusivity to owning archwing. if the devs do apply more reward to archwing by introducing special alerts, more people will play. that's why i think its worth trying as a first step.

i'm repeating myself, of course, because i think these are three perfectly valid points. we replay bounties, jobs, syndicate alerts, arbitrations, fissures, and invasions because they offer certain rewards. they also offer mission difficulty variety and exclusivity to unlocking them. i believe that this is the direction archwing needed to go all along.

[Yrkul]

I wouldn't mind invasion alerts on archwing nodes.

But archwing overall needs a lot of tweaks, from movement and mob consistency, to new gear and interactions between archwing and normal mode. There's a lot of untapped potential.

[MysticDragonMage]

2 minutes ago, Yrkul said:

I wouldn't mind invasion alerts on archwing nodes.

But archwing overall needs a lot of tweaks, from movement and mob consistency, to new gear and interactions between archwing and normal mode. There's a lot of untapped potential.

i agree. and while the main concept is giving archwing their own special alerts, it would also be nice if archwing could be implemented to invasions.

i think this concept is a good first step. i too believe that archwing has a lot of potential and needs more polish. however, first and foremost, i think we need replay-ability because there is no guarantee players will continue to play archwing content after these features are polished.

[Yrkul]

I find the Jupiter archwing mission a fair option, when I need to farm neural sensors. I usually finish with 2-4 times as many as I would from a typical exterminate mission.

There are missions I just don't bother with, however. Invasion alerts and perhaps even syndicate missions would make unlocking the nodes less painful.

[LSG501]

58 minutes ago, MysticDragonMage said:

I've already covered why people dont play space archwing: because of the lack of replay-ability, difficulty variety in certain missions, and exclusivity to owning archwing. if the devs do apply more reward to archwing by introducing special alerts, more people will play. that's why i think its worth trying as a first step. 

i'm repeating myself, of course, because i think these are three perfectly valid points. we replay bounties, jobs, syndicate alerts, arbitrations, fissures, and invasions because they offer certain rewards. they also offer mission difficulty variety and exclusivity to unlocking them. i believe that this is the direction archwing needed to go all along.

No.. you made comments to support your reason to add in more alerts that wouldn't actually fix the issues that most people have with playing archwing....the issues you mention are not the main issue most people bring up as the reason they don't play archwing....

[MysticDragonMage]

21 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

No.. you made comments to support your reason to add in more alerts that wouldn't actually fix the issues that most people have with playing archwing....the issues you mention are not the main issue most people bring up as the reason they don't play archwing....

instead of leaving us in the dark, state the issues.

the clunky movement system? no separate control scheme? annoying close quarter Sea lab and corpus maps? sluggish sharkwing? lack of new archwing missions, weapons, and archwings?

[LSG501]

50 minutes ago, MysticDragonMage said:

instead of leaving us in the dark, state the issues.

the clunky movement system?  annoying close quarter Sea lab and corpus maps? sluggish sharkwing?

I don't particularly need to considering there is a search function but as you seem to know a majority of them I'll just stick with the ones you know and simply put NONE of those will be fixed by new alert missions, new alert missions will not all of a sudden make people want to play archwing in space... if that approach worked we'd have had more 'conclave alerts' (snowball thing) and conclave would be flourishing despite it's underlying issues... funnily enough it's still disliked by most of us.

In all honesty based on my clan, I don't even think railjack is going to be enough to 'save' archwing....

[Sharkgoblin]

no please i already leveled all archwings and archweapons i dont want to suffer again

[MysticDragonMage]

22 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

I don't particularly need to considering there is a search function but as you seem to know a majority of them I'll just stick with the ones you know and simply put NONE of those will be fixed by new alert missions, new alert missions will not all of a sudden make people want to play archwing in space... if that approach worked we'd have had more 'conclave alerts' (snowball thing) and conclave would be flourishing despite it's underlying issues... funnily enough it's still disliked by most of us.

In all honesty based on my clan, I don't even think railjack is going to be enough to 'save' archwing....

then may i ask what you would suggest to fix all of archwing's issues?

because this suggestion is not aimed to fix all of archwing's issues. this suggestion is to apply more replay-ability through rewards as a first step. i would like to see more of archwing's features polished, but right now, there is no point in do so if there is no guarantee people will replay archwing content. so far as i know, people still like to play archwing simply because of its concept, just like how some people still like to play conclave because its PVP. though they are a small part of this community, they are still a part of this community that must be fairly acknowledged. however, there are still people that dont like playing archwing or investing in its content because its provides little to no reward.

Edited January 3, 2019 by MysticDragonMage

[MysticDragonMage]

9 minutes ago, COATTOQUALUNQUE said:

no please i already leveled all archwings and archweapons i dont want to suffer again

this suggestion is to add special archwing alerts along with invasions, fissures, and arbitration. meaning a new tab on the top right corner and they will have nothing to do with any of the other special alerts.

meaning that you dont have to participate if you dont want to. unless your greed forces you to depending the rewards.

[LSG501]

45 minutes ago, MysticDragonMage said:

then may i ask what you would suggest to fix all of archwing's issues?

because this suggestion is not aimed to fix all of archwing's issues. this suggestion is to apply more replay-ability through rewards as a first step. i would like to see more of archwing's features polished, but right now, there is no point in do so if there is no guarantee people will replay archwing content. so far as i know, people still like to play archwing simply because of its concept, just like how some people still like to play conclave because its PVP. though they are a small part of this community, they are still a part of this community that must be fairly acknowledged. however, there are still people that dont like playing archwing or investing in its content because its provides little to no reward. 

Um how to fix archwing issues... um fix the things people have issues with....if people then start 'enjoying it' then look at using dev time to add more missions to it.  Not everything is right for warframe, using time and effort on features which are not interesting to main player base is poor management of dev resources. 

As to fairness... conclave gets VERY little attention these days from the devs, sections of conclave are completely dead and based on previous stats shown (iirc) archwing was very similar in number so by 'fairness' it should get the same amount of attention... in fact archwing is likely getting considerably more attention than other little played aspects of the game at the moment because it will be part of railjack. 

Edited January 3, 2019 by LSG501

[Plushy]

I'll happily play more Archwing as soon as the movement stops being the worst thing in the game. Used to be fun and then DE took out all the fun.

[MysticDragonMage]

54 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

Um how to fix archwing issues... um fix the things people have issues with....if people then start 'enjoying it' then look at using dev time to add more missions to it.  Not everything is right for warframe, using time and effort on features which are not interesting to main player base is poor management of dev resources. 

and i agree. yet there is still no guarantee that players will continue to play archwing missions without replay ability even with all of these issues addressed.

56 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

As to fairness... conclave gets VERY little attention these days from the devs, sections of conclave are completely dead and based on previous stats shown (iirc) archwing was very similar in number so by 'fairness' it should get the same amount of attention... in fact archwing is likely getting considerably more attention than other little played aspects of the game at the moment because it will be part of railjack. 

archwing is being applied to new features as a simple transitioning and mounting mechanic without its original core concepts being addressed. i would not say that it is receiving attentions worth talking about, but as i have mentioned earlier, DE is desperately trying to keep the concept of archwing alive. but going in the direction they are going now, regular archwing missions are becoming nothing more than places to level up your archwing gear.

[LSG501]

1 hour ago, MysticDragonMage said:

and i agree. yet there is still no guarantee that players will continue to play archwing missions without replay ability even with all of these issues addressed.

 

You keep going on about replay ability when they can already be replayed in exactly the same way as any other level....other levels (with some exceptions) don't have as many issues with getting people to replay them so clearly there is another issue with archwing which is far more of an issue.  Adding in extra items, which can be attained via other methods isn't going to suddenly make something interesting to someone who isn't interested in it already. 

 

1 hour ago, MysticDragonMage said:

archwing is being applied to new features as a simple transitioning and mounting mechanic without its original core concepts being addressed. i would not say that it is receiving attentions worth talking about, but as i have mentioned earlier, DE is desperately trying to keep the concept of archwing alive. but going in the direction they are going now, regular archwing missions are becoming nothing more than places to level up your archwing gear.

Actually based on devstreams it could (devstreams subject to change obviously) be used as a 'fighter jet' alongside the railjack ship.  Mind you I'm not exactly holding my breath for railjack, I already have a feeling it's going to be something DE can't quite pull off in the way they want to in their heads and it will be like PoE and Fortuna where it sounds great on paper but then you play it and it's lacking something to make it as good as it sounded

As to the star map for levelling only... how is that any different than the current concept of 'open worlds' versus original maps, efficiently levelling up on open worlds is pretty much a no go.   

 

[MysticDragonMage]

6 hours ago, LSG501 said:

Adding in extra items, which can be attained via other methods isn't going to suddenly make something interesting to someone who isn't interested in it already. 

PoE and Fortuna bounties reward players with resources that can still be obtained via other methods. normal alerts offer rewards that can be obtained through other methods. so with this said, yes, i believe that applying extra items would potentially make a feature more interesting. because these rewards have the potential to become conveniently valuable to players who may need them or may need a stockpile. PoE and Fortuna would not be half as interesting if it only offered rewards related to their content (which apparently, archwing does).

6 hours ago, LSG501 said:

As to the star map for levelling only... how is that any different than the current concept of 'open worlds' versus original maps, efficiently levelling up on open worlds is pretty much a no go.

on open worlds, you can accept bounties or participate in incursions and conveniently get more rewards. archwing does not have unique resources and thus it has no replay-ability. the only reason to go accept archwing missions is either of two things; because space battles are awesome and leveling up archwing gear will give you more mastery (to which the replay ability is limited to how much gear you need to level).

Edited January 4, 2019 by MysticDragonMage

[LSG501]

7 hours ago, MysticDragonMage said:

PoE and Fortuna bounties reward players with resources that can still be obtained via other methods. normal alerts offer rewards that can be obtained through other methods. so with this said, yes, i believe that applying extra items would potentially make a feature more interesting. because these rewards have the potential to become conveniently valuable to players who may need them or may need a stockpile. PoE and Fortuna would not be half as interesting if it only offered rewards related to their content (which apparently, archwing does).

on open worlds, you can accept bounties or participate in incursions and conveniently get more rewards. archwing does not have unique resources and thus it has no replay-ability. the only reason to go accept archwing missions is either of two things; because space battles are awesome and leveling up archwing gear will give you more mastery (to which the replay ability is limited to how much gear you need to level).

OK... keep thinking what you want, your replies don't even rebuff my original comment, it's just another way of saying 'I want special missions'....

PoE is pretty much dead to high level players except for eidolons, hell many of us have just said screw it to the mods which drop with 1% drop chance so extra items don't guarantee players will go back.

if you want to stockpile it will always be more efficient to take an atlas/nekros/hydroid/ivara and smeeta or combo of them on a normal mission over an archwing mission because they're designed for farming stuff.

As I said it's a waste of dev resources to work on something that is not enjoyed by the majority of the player base, it really is that simple, let the devs work on what the majority of players actually WANT to do.

[MysticDragonMage]

3 hours ago, LSG501 said:

OK... keep thinking what you want, your replies don't even rebuff my original comment, it's just another way of saying 'I want special missions'....

what else do you want me to say? yes, i personally want special alerts*. while requesting this, I've stated the benefits of adding such a system (replay-ability, mission difficulty variety, and exclusivity). that's my official stance in this conversation, what reason should i say anything else?

3 hours ago, LSG501 said:

PoE is pretty much dead to high level players except for eidolons, hell many of us have just said screw it to the mods which drop with 1% drop chance so extra items don't guarantee players will go back.

yet there are still populated servers and I've personally rarely found a bounty without four players. do you want an end-game topic? cause this isn't an end-game topic.

3 hours ago, LSG501 said:

if you want to stockpile it will always be more efficient to take an atlas/nekros/hydroid/ivara and smeeta or combo of them on a normal mission over an archwing mission because they're designed for farming stuff.

that's been one of my points and one of the reason i've created this concept in the first place. its literally in the first paragraph of the topic.

3 hours ago, LSG501 said:

As I said it's a waste of dev resources to work on something that is not enjoyed by the majority of the player base, it really is that simple, let the devs work on what the majority of players actually WANT to do.

weak argument. this format can be applied to literally any suggestion on this forum ever. I believe that this suggestion would put a better spotlight on archwing and would be easier to implement than, say, and entirely new movement system. not that i dont want a new movement system, im just saying that special archwing alerts would be a simple first step.

[LSG501]

29 minutes ago, MysticDragonMage said:

weak argument. this format can be applied to literally any suggestion on this forum ever. I believe that this suggestion would put a better spotlight on archwing and would be easier to implement than, say, and entirely new movement system. not that i dont want a new movement system, im just saying that special archwing alerts would be a simple first step.

Um.. no it's not, it's only weak to you because you know that archwing is unpopular (for valid reasons and it's not just 'rewards') meaning it woudn't get anything done to it, which in turn goes against what YOU want. 

We all know that DE isn't that big of a dev team, why should they invest time on something that isn't important to a majority of the player base at the expense of things where the majority can see a gain from it. 

So lets just take away dev time to work on 'special archwing alerts' that maybe 2% would play on a regular basis versus using the same time to work on improving fortuna, new Gas City maps, the next warframe(s)/weapon etc or you know working on railjack which ironically will include archwing stuff... yeah clearly my view that wasting time on something no one is interested in versus something the majority of people are interested in isn't valid at all...

36 minutes ago, MysticDragonMage said:

yet there are still populated servers and I've personally rarely found a bounty without four players. do you want an end-game topic? cause this isn't an end-game topic.

You do know that PoE is on Earth, the very first planet, and as such there will ALWAYS be new players going on PoE bounties... just because a bounty is full (funny how you neglect level of players...) doesn't mean that high level players are still interested in them. 

 

38 minutes ago, MysticDragonMage said:

that's been one of my points and one of the reason i've created this concept in the first place. its literally in the first paragraph of the topic.

And adding in 'alerts' isn't going to change the status quo for farming, it's an alert, you do it once/three times, you get your reward and it's done until the next alert.... in the mean time you can go to any normal map with the aforementioned warframes and farm for as long as you want.

In all honesty having re-read your first post, when you read between the lines all you actually want is a way to get the arcwhing weapon parts without investing in the time and effort of doing syndicates or looking for trades... no do what everyone else does, farm the syndicates and/or trade for the parts.

[MysticDragonMage]

1 hour ago, LSG501 said:

Um.. no it's not, it's only weak to you because you know that archwing is unpopular (for valid reasons and it's not just 'rewards') meaning it woudn't get anything done to it, which in turn goes against what YOU want. 

it really is. I've seen it here and everywhere and it adds nothing to the conversation because the format can be applied to every argument ever. fact is that i am confident DE can do many great things for the game and i'm sorry if you doubt their skills.

your logic implies that just because something is unpopular means that it should not be improved. my stance is that because something is unpopular means that it should be improved.

1 hour ago, LSG501 said:

You do know that PoE is on Earth, the very first planet, and as such there will ALWAYS be new players going on PoE bounties... just because a bounty is full (funny how you neglect level of players...) doesn't mean that high level players are still interested in them. 

i'm aware. yet i still see many high-level players joining bounties. sometimes i see high-leveled player joining regular alerts because the rewards are either convenient or because they are unique.

1 hour ago, LSG501 said:

And adding in 'alerts' isn't going to change the status quo for farming, it's an alert, you do it once/three times, you get your reward and it's done until the next alert.... in the mean time you can go to any normal map with the aforementioned warframes and farm for as long as you want.

yes. that's...what alerts are. you go in, get the reward, and wait for the next alert. but what you did not include is that a player will play another alert if it interests them.

1 hour ago, LSG501 said:

In all honesty having re-read your first post, when you read between the lines all you actually want is a way to get the arcwhing weapon parts without investing in the time and effort of doing syndicates or looking for trades... no do what everyone else does, farm the syndicates and/or trade for the parts.

not a very good point to bring up, because that was more of a personal request of mine and hardly adds to the conversation. so say i take it out. my point still stands. archwing is unrewarding and lacks replay-ability. what then? please stay on topic.

Edited January 4, 2019 by MysticDragonMage