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Would removing bullet jump in conclave increase the amount of players playing PvP?


BlueFan99
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Would it? Would making the Conclave more "generic shooter" bring more payers to try it out? And I know that it would lose the thing the at makes Warframe unique, but what does DE have to lose? Nobody plays Conclave anyway, and it would bring a different play style to the game, that is, add the old one back in.  They could also add some normal mods to the conclave as a reward or maybe some new Warframe skins or emotes or anything to push people to try it out. 

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Nope.

Conclave has never been where it was at with Warframe. It wasn't popular when we didn't have Movement 2.0, it still isn't popular, going back isn't going to make it suddenly popular.

Only way I see Conclave getting better is going a more MOBA-esque design by adding enemy AI units to help spice things up, but that'd probably go over as well as Warframe Battle Royale (with Cheese).

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There have been a number of posts created about Conclave from people that have played it.  Their concerns had more to do with other things such as people starting out not being able to compete with people who had been playing for some time and network related issues giving unfair advantages to some people.  I believe those sorts of things were more impacting than trying to make it more like a generic shooter.  Maybe some of those people can post here with specifics.

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3 minutes ago, Rawbeard said:

the only way to make it popular is to remove it, see trials.

unless we have the rail system again...everyone remember the event clan vs clan fight for the rail system right?  no? welp I am glade that thing is over and none announce and better leave it dead for good reason measure.

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I'd like them to just get rid of conclave all together. People played raids more than conclave but they removed those because of the lack of a player base and the need to update them.

Warframe was never meant for PvP, It's to easy a game with no real challenge (skill wise) required. So the community it's attracted are the wrong crowd for the PvP scene.

If they just added the conclave rewards to something like Arbitration that'd be fine IMO.

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4 minutes ago, ChaoticEdge said:

unless we have the rail system again...everyone remember the event clan vs clan fight for the rail system right?  no? welp I am glade that thing is over and none announce and better leave it dead for good reason measure.

I remember seeing those.  Made me wonder what the point was when every single battle record was an endless stream of "Rail successfully defended by [insert super large clan]."

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Certainly not by itself. And a number of other people would be just as sad to see it gone.

I'd probably have it as another mode (Because there's literally only 4 modes, 50% of which are deathmatches) as some kind of 'Grineer vs Corpus' mode. Specific loadouts where players may equip pre-modded loadouts that mimic enemy types as a kind of class-based shooter. The logic being "To defeat an opponent truly, one must not only know ones own strengths and weaknesses, but also your enemies. Fight as your enemies do, and understand their tactics."

The other thing Conclave is in desperate, longing need for is matchmaking. Which there is an (optional) lower rank and everyone else. That's not enough - complete newbies who installed 10 minutes ago can be put in the same fight as a PvP god who can oneshot you across the map, a spammer with an Ignis and a Hydroid (Basically Mei from Overwatch, and we know how loved SHE is) and a guy with a Nidus and a one-shot Zaw running around as an immortal deity with a touch of death.

Speaking of, several balance changes need to be done to make the game more fun overall. Ignis is, like in the base game, absurdly damaging considering how much area it covers and how good its ammo economy is. It's basically got no weaknesses. Arca Plasmor, too although somewhat less so. And some of the abilities need tweaking, like Hydroid's Puddle (the shield regen and invincibility's fine, but why on earth does it CC? It's basically a get-out-of-death free card with a combat advantage once you emerge baked in).

In short: More variety (including what's suggested), matchmaking and balance.

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19 minutes ago, ChaoticEdge said:

unless we have the rail system again...everyone remember the event clan vs clan fight for the rail system right?  no? welp I am glade that thing is over and none announce and better leave it dead for good reason measure.

For a PVE focused game the old rial fights were a smarter approach to PVP since it included AI enemies as well (similar to Titanfall).  If they rejigged those a bit and disconnected them from Dark Sectors, I'd actually consider giving the 'PVP' another go.

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It would probably improve the quality of the pvp games but have 0 impact on population. People don't generally install pve horde shooters to play pvp. Conclave will likely never be a popular feature of the game. There are simply too many options devoted to pvp gameplay out there for Warframe to even try to compete while also continuing growth of the core game.

Edited by Erytroxylin
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36 minutes ago, Starfreak911 said:

For a PVE focused game the old rial fights were a smarter approach to PVP since it included AI enemies as well (similar to Titanfall).  If they rejigged those a bit and disconnected them from Dark Sectors, I'd actually consider giving the 'PVP' another go.

we all know that, but we never speak about the rail system of CvC...

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Nothing is wrong with conclave except weapon adn frame balancing as far as the constant movement people are just too lazy to learn the combat style and thats on them the players who know how to play or are will to learn will have a good time.

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1 hour ago, Loza03 said:

Certainly not by itself. And a number of other people would be just as sad to see it gone.

I'd probably have it as another mode (Because there's literally only 4 modes, 50% of which are deathmatches) as some kind of 'Grineer vs Corpus' mode. Specific loadouts where players may equip pre-modded loadouts that mimic enemy types as a kind of class-based shooter. The logic being "To defeat an opponent truly, one must not only know ones own strengths and weaknesses, but also your enemies. Fight as your enemies do, and understand their tactics."

The other thing Conclave is in desperate, longing need for is matchmaking. Which there is an (optional) lower rank and everyone else. That's not enough - complete newbies who installed 10 minutes ago can be put in the same fight as a PvP god who can oneshot you across the map, a spammer with an Ignis and a Hydroid (Basically Mei from Overwatch, and we know how loved SHE is) and a guy with a Nidus and a one-shot Zaw running around as an immortal deity with a touch of death.

Speaking of, several balance changes need to be done to make the game more fun overall. Ignis is, like in the base game, absurdly damaging considering how much area it covers and how good its ammo economy is. It's basically got no weaknesses. Arca Plasmor, too although somewhat less so. And some of the abilities need tweaking, like Hydroid's Puddle (the shield regen and invincibility's fine, but why on earth does it CC? It's basically a get-out-of-death free card with a combat advantage once you emerge baked in).

In short: More variety (including what's suggested), matchmaking and balance.

I feel like they really just need to turn it into something different. There are waaay to many frames and weapons for DE to even attempt making them balanced for PvP. While it might not be as interesting as playing your favorite warframe, I like your suggestion of having specific units/loadouts. It is restrictive, but it is a way to provide balance which I think is the biggest problem Conclave has. It does, as others have mentioned, pretty much turn it into a generic shooter, but otherwise I just don't think Warframes fit the format of PvP. There needs to be an equal playing field so that when you lose, it feels fair. It wont have as much variety, but you can still offer classes with set "roles" so that people have the freedom to pick something that fits their chosen playstyle.

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18 minutes ago, IntheCoconut said:

I feel like they really just need to turn it into something different. There are waaay to many frames and weapons for DE to even attempt making them balanced for PvP. While it might not be as interesting as playing your favorite warframe, I like your suggestion of having specific units/loadouts. It is restrictive, but it is a way to provide balance which I think is the biggest problem Conclave has. It does, as others have mentioned, pretty much turn it into a generic shooter, but otherwise I just don't think Warframes fit the format of PvP. There needs to be an equal playing field so that when you lose, it feels fair. It wont have as much variety, but you can still offer classes with set "roles" so that people have the freedom to pick something that fits their chosen playstyle.

Indeed. I'd like for the regular annihilation to stay just because it's pretty good if you want something different with relatively regular Warframe mechanics, but even I'd move things towards units for the majority of gamemodes, just because it's less of a nightmare to balance.

Having them be preset loadouts would be relatively cheap to produce, so you could absolutely get a lot of them. And it could leave room for some creative ideas - like a shield drone Titania who has very low damage but infinite Razorwing with buffed movement speed who has the shield drone effect to nearby teammates. Perhaps a Rhino bombard who's equipped with Ivara's Navigator, enabling the player to manually home rockets for a limited duration. Or a Limbo equipped with Venka claws as a Manic. Sure, that'd still be pretty tough to balance, but it'd be a lot easier than right now and, let's face it, not every PvP gamemode has to be competitive viable. 

Another thought could be an Evolve-like gamemode where 7 players assigned to either a Grineer or Corpus team have to prevent a single Tenno player with a standard Annihilation loadout from completing a series of objectives in a pre-prepared batch of tileset areas. The Tenno player has 4 revives per normal, each one sending them to start points further back in the level.

There's a lot of routes available that have the potential to be creative and fun. 

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